I mean SUB does work , and still the best option/best games
As the expection, not the norm, more frequent examples of SUB MMO's failing having to do B2P or F2P models than successful sub MMO's in the mainstream scene.
The also fact that these days people have subs to all type of services, makes it more unlikely MMO's to work out with it, as it all cumulates to a larger bill, hence that general audience won't be very willing past maintaining 1 or 2 game subs.
Oh welcome back Ice Ice Baby or whatever the hell your old banned account was called.
Dude , I am French , and I never posted really here. but I am seriously doing Cancer nightmare about F2P games.
I am here to share my taught , opinions and TRY HARD to understand HOW CAN PEOPLE ENJOY THESES CRAP GAMES.
I don't understand....
I just Seriously don't.
The only VALID reason I have is , You aren't gamer , You are just a Casual person looking for some pixel in your screen for about 3-4 hour a week and the fact that is FREE does satisfy you.
This is the ONLY valid reason That I can UNDERSTAND why would someone enjoy this...
You don't really like games after all... you're just there and it's free.
I can't afford multiple subscriptions, and I can't play the same game forever. I get bored and have to mix things up a bit.
Cash shops? They aren't going away, and be shocked if any game, sub or otherwise, doesn't have one.
The difference is if they're pay to win, or in some cases, pay to continue past the noob zone. Those I have an issue with, but fortunately there are plenty that aren't like that.
Now there are a lot of free to play games out there that aren't much in the way of a game, especially the self playing browser based carbon copy types we keep see coming out of South Korea. Now those bore me within 30 seconds. A few years ago it was within 30 minutes, but they were still a bit of a novelty to me back then. Those seem to exist solely for the purpose of hooking whales in the short term.
I have to agree, that if you aren't having fun with a game, it's not for you. But remember, not everybody enjoys the same thing. Though to be honest, I have no idea who in the world enjoys having to urinate and defecate in a game, but apparently that's now in a game and you get penalized for not doing so. To that concept I can only say "ewwww! Not cool man, not cool".
But of course, different people like different things. Ok, which of you sickos asked for a game to put in the potty dance and require bathroom breaks? I forgot the name of game that I know is doing that now, and it isn't even out yet though there are play videos up already. Sure, I'm making fun of that, err, mechanism, since to me it's not a fun one and worth a few jokes, but hey, if some people like it, they should look into that game. (Really wish I could remember the name, sorry.)
Can't say I completely disagree with some of the issues the OP was ranting about, but I can't really agree with his post either. But that's fine, it's all opinions anyway. I'm off to play some WoW, quickly followed by a large dose of The Bard's Tale Trilogy. (Yeah, the remake of the classic.) and maybe some Everspace if I have time left.
I can't afford multiple subscriptions, and I can't play the same game forever. I get bored and have to mix things up a bit.
Cash shops? They aren't going away, and be shocked if any game, sub or otherwise, doesn't have one.
The difference is if they're pay to win, or in some cases, pay to continue past the noob zone. Those I have an issue with, but fortunately there are plenty that aren't like that.
Now there are a lot of free to play games out there that aren't much in the way of a game, especially the self playing browser based carbon copy types we keep see coming out of South Korea. Now those bore me within 30 seconds. A few years ago it was within 30 minutes, but they were still a bit of a novelty to me back then. Those seem to exist solely for the purpose of hooking whales in the short term.
I have to agree, that if you aren't having fun with a game, it's not for you. But remember, not everybody enjoys the same thing. Though to be honest, I have no idea who in the world enjoys having to urinate and defecate in a game, but apparently that's now in a game and you get penalized for not doing so. To that concept I can only say "ewwww! Not cool man, not cool".
But of course, different people like different things. Ok, which of you sickos asked for a game to put in the potty dance and require bathroom breaks? I forgot the name of game that I know is doing that now, and it isn't even out yet though there are play videos up already. Sure, I'm making fun of that, err, mechanism, since to me it's not a fun one and worth a few jokes, but hey, if some people like it, they should look into that game. (Really wish I could remember the name, sorry.)
Can't say I completely disagree with some of the issues the OP was ranting about, but I can't really agree with his post either. But that's fine, it's all opinions anyway. I'm off to play some WoW, quickly followed by a large dose of The Bard's Tale Trilogy. (Yeah, the remake of the classic.) and maybe some Everspace if I have time left.
I agree with all your saying ... thanks for replying.
I know that not everyone have the same taste.... that dosen't means That I can understand how and why.
I don'y understand zoophila for instance do you ?
But liking different things , or different games , has nothing to do with GOOD games.
It can be an UNICORN game and the game is awesome.
It can be a soccer game with cars.... rocket league.....
I mean any kinds of games can be good.
To me , a Free to Play model game CAN't Be good in any way.
Cashop or not.
Unicorn or cool soliders... whatwever theme you prefer...
it's free it's not a good game.
Why ?
Because the Game Design is a failure.
the Game Design / Level Design is made to make you pay.
The game is just a big trap and they just watches the whales goes in drop the $$$$$$$
As i saied....
i love games I really love games...
They are disease , pollution , along the real games.
It's fair to say that free to play isn't really free. If you're not paying to play, some poor soul with a bad gambling compulsion and/or too much money is probably paying for you.
But the OP declares that it's not free, while at the same time implying that it's because people play for free that games end up being poor quality and/or weak on content due to lack of revenue.
Pick an argument. There are plenty of good ones for either side. As someone who has subbed to sub-based games, and played for free on F2P games, I'm very familiar. And so are MMO developers, who usually at some point offer BOTH. I suspect the only reason they start as "sub only" anymore is to minimize launch bloat, and afterward offer a "free" option later as hardware concerns subside. I suspect this has been the case as early as DCUO. Probably earlier.
But aside from all that, there's a simple truth, which is that different people define "value" in different ways, and that our play schedules differ for a myriad of reasons. No one would argue that playing $15 a month and playing 20-30-40...50+ hours a month is absolutely worth the money. But I bet no one would argue that paying $45 for no new content doesn't really work for them, either. And $45 is about the bare minimum that subscribers pay between updates for nothing other than access to the game.
In the end, CHOICE is the answer. You find ways to get F2P people to buy in, and you try to keep incentives for subscribers to stay subbed. It's all revenue that goes toward profit, salaries, and adding to the game.
F2P brings in revenue, in direct and indirect ways. And in most cases, subs aren't enough to keep games afloat anymore as time passes. The exceptions prove the rule. A game that wants to last has to have good models for both.
Sorry, but you aren't considering the details of my financial situation. F2P, especially reasonable F2P games, are my core products these days. I'm just not in a position to hemorrhage cash like I used to. If I want to play, I have to look first at the cost. That's just the way it is. I adapted, I'm sure you can too.
I feel like you. But back when the genre was just starting i was an mmo freak. I was paying subs. for at the same time. Anarchy Online DAOC Earth & Beyond Neocron. Today i just don't want to do it anymore. And this was back when you had to pay 50+ dollars for the box too. And don't forget about expansions.
"Good," is subjective. A good game to you could be a bad game to someone else; just as a F2P game could be the best in the world to someone while you despise it with a passion. Either way god forbid we live in a world where we had free will and could pick what games we wanted to play without someone force-feeding their opinions of the game down our throats, amirite?
I think a better warning would be not to spend significantly more money per month than you would be willing to pay for in a sub game. I have seen a lot of people who would never consider paying $50 per month in a sub game, gleefully throw out hundreds of dollars per month in some less that stellar "free to play" game.
I can't afford multiple subscriptions, and I can't play the same game forever. I get bored and have to mix things up a bit.
Cash shops? They aren't going away, and be shocked if any game, sub or otherwise, doesn't have one.
The difference is if they're pay to win, or in some cases, pay to continue past the noob zone. Those I have an issue with, but fortunately there are plenty that aren't like that.
Now there are a lot of free to play games out there that aren't much in the way of a game, especially the self playing browser based carbon copy types we keep see coming out of South Korea. Now those bore me within 30 seconds. A few years ago it was within 30 minutes, but they were still a bit of a novelty to me back then. Those seem to exist solely for the purpose of hooking whales in the short term.
I have to agree, that if you aren't having fun with a game, it's not for you. But remember, not everybody enjoys the same thing. Though to be honest, I have no idea who in the world enjoys having to urinate and defecate in a game, but apparently that's now in a game and you get penalized for not doing so. To that concept I can only say "ewwww! Not cool man, not cool".
But of course, different people like different things. Ok, which of you sickos asked for a game to put in the potty dance and require bathroom breaks? I forgot the name of game that I know is doing that now, and it isn't even out yet though there are play videos up already. Sure, I'm making fun of that, err, mechanism, since to me it's not a fun one and worth a few jokes, but hey, if some people like it, they should look into that game. (Really wish I could remember the name, sorry.)
Can't say I completely disagree with some of the issues the OP was ranting about, but I can't really agree with his post either. But that's fine, it's all opinions anyway. I'm off to play some WoW, quickly followed by a large dose of The Bard's Tale Trilogy. (Yeah, the remake of the classic.) and maybe some Everspace if I have time left.
I agree with all your saying ... thanks for replying.
I know that not everyone have the same taste.... that dosen't means That I can understand how and why.
I don'y understand zoophila for instance do you ?
But liking different things , or different games , has nothing to do with GOOD games.
It can be an UNICORN game and the game is awesome.
It can be a soccer game with cars.... rocket league.....
I mean any kinds of games can be good.
To me , a Free to Play model game CAN't Be good in any way.
Cashop or not.
Unicorn or cool soliders... whatwever theme you prefer...
it's free it's not a good game.
Why ?
Because the Game Design is a failure.
the Game Design / Level Design is made to make you pay.
The game is just a big trap and they just watches the whales goes in drop the $$$$$$$
As i saied....
i love games I really love games...
They are disease , pollution , along the real games.
If you like it spend money to support it, if not find a different game you find fun or entertaining and spend money there, sub or cash shop, to support them. Like others have said do not tell people what to do just because YOU think F2P games you have played suck. Better to play a free game and leave then to spend money on a game just to leave because it was not fun for you. Time to find something else to do if you can not find a decent game to play.
What I dislike is when someone starts to teach me. "I ride Ferrari, you ride lame BMW, throw that crap away and ride Ferrari". "I hate fish, fish is not tasty, fishing is cruel and bad, throw that nonsense away". It's fine to like Ferraris or hate fish. It's not nice to dictate others.
Dislike f2p? Your right. Pick WoW, Star Citizen, at the very end - Istaria and enjoy your adventures.
Like f2p? Your right. Pick Lotro, GW2...and enjoy your adventures.
Each model has pros and cons. Each (pay to play; buy to play; free to play) model brings money to the developers.
In short - enjoy your life, do not force others to live it.
Oh welcome back Ice Ice Baby or whatever the hell your old banned account was called.
Dude , I am French , and I never posted really here. but I am seriously doing Cancer nightmare about F2P games.
I am here to share my taught , opinions and TRY HARD to understand HOW CAN PEOPLE ENJOY THESES CRAP GAMES.
I don't understand....
I just Seriously don't.
The only VALID reason I have is , You aren't gamer , You are just a Casual person looking for some pixel in your screen for about 3-4 hour a week and the fact that is FREE does satisfy you.
This is the ONLY valid reason That I can UNDERSTAND why would someone enjoy this...
You don't really like games after all... you're just there and it's free.
Its one thing to ask why people are enjoying crap games, you get those regardless of monetisation method or lack of or presence of a box price after all, look at Mass effect andromeda, Destiny 2, League of Legends, well, opinions vary on games, so one mans treasure is another mans trash. But you don't get to decide for others what they should play, offer advice based on your own experiences of games by all means. The other thing is, just be aware that some games you think are good, others might consider to be 'crap' too.
MMO were much funner , when they were all on SUB based plan like 10 years ago.
Now it's a mess and tons of good games are kill by their game models.
The games is good for everyone , but people stop play it because of the game model plan.
Yes there exception , there will always be but I don't like where MMO are right now generally speaking and where they are going in the future. The power is in our hands , we decide what we buy.
I mean ok , keep playing those games. I started the war but myself, my friends on discord hey come try this game , what is call ?
This game
I go see it , ohh it's free sorry not interested.
I am only 1 person , if I can bring another with me that think the same my goal is accomplish.
I don't want that these game succeed for the only reason , that I know those games were made by bankers and companies , not by gamer and passionate people that love video games.
i don't have respect for those people. They don't have respect for video games.
I am looking at my Valkyrie Profile , Xenogears , Tales of Desnity II , my Suikoden series , EverQuest boxes and arts.
lol ... These games wasn't made for money , it was made by passion and love.
People don't have to stop playing F2P games. Just don't spend money ingame. However most f2p just turn into a grindfest, carry only 2 items in inventory, etc.
F2P are fine. When you sign up for a game, you know what to expect based on the model, so there are games for everything. F2P or B2P are practically the same, they just evolve differently, but the outcome is usually the same. F2P moves to a model where they have to pull up some income, so they release updates and push some cosmetics in a way. B2P releases the whole expansion, but you have to buy it again. Both are the same in some way. F2P is more optional though.
I prefer B2P though, because it filters out the bots and overall toxic people.
My reaction will be , No thanks , Who are you ? Did you watch your hands before doing it ? What did you put in the burger IDK , If I want a burger ill go to the restaurant and i'll pay for one , I will know by certitude that my burger is good.
I feel the same with free to play games, you don't know in what your jumping into, probably just a big trap , maybe not but after all , if you pay for something good , you'll have something good.
Sell me a good games : I'll buy it
Sell me something free with hidden traps : fuck you and keep it for yourself.
My reaction will be , No thanks , Who are you ? Did you watch your hands before doing it ? What did you put in the burger IDK , If I want a burger ill go to the restaurant and i'll pay for one , I will know by certitude that my burger is good.
I feel the same with free to play games, you don't know in what your jumping into, probably just a big trap , maybe not but after all , if you pay for something good , you'll have something good.
Sell me a good games : I'll buy it
Sell me something free with hidden traps : fuck you and keep it for yourself.
Come along. I have a F2P game for you in my white panel van ...
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Well I am SERIOUSLY glad to hear HONESTLY that you guys have REAL FUN playing those games.
They are not for me.
A game Model should not Intervene with the FUN of the game and for me it does.
It does when I beat my ASS 60 hour a week in a MMO and getting ALL I've accomplish into a lost BECAUSE someone decided to spend 1000$ Us in the game and he got to the point That I am. It seriously , KILL ALL MY FUN.
FREE To Play MMO are for Casual players that plays 4-5 hour a week into a game not for an hardcore gamer.
How does someone spending money to quickly achieve what you did spending time interfere with how much fun you're having in the game? You still spent 60 hours in the game that you enjoyed while the other guy spent no time in game and just dropped a stupid amount of money into the game. Sounds more to me like a case of "That's not fair because I can't do it."
Since a few years, well, maybe even since the first F2P game, there is no difference in quality between the various payment models. And most F2P games only really hit you with the "buy quest pack xy" or whatever late in the game. You can play a long time without ever spending a dime without feeling artifically held back in most.
And for the developers the advantage is that they tend to make a lot more money.
It's a win win for most people. Of course, some people spend thousands of dollars in a F2P game, but if you keep up your subscription in e.g. WoW you also spend thousands of dollars. And the moment you stop you can't play (though, that changed somewhat at least in WoW). All that money is basically lost. In a F2P game at least you keep everything, even if you stop playing it 5 or 10 years.
And that sub games charge for server transfer, name change etc. is just stupid. That really should be covered by the sub. They could still limit it to a few times per month or whatever so that people don't change 20 times per day.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
Well I am SERIOUSLY glad to hear HONESTLY that you guys have REAL FUN playing those games.
They are not for me.
A game Model should not Intervene with the FUN of the game and for me it does.
It does when I beat my ASS 60 hour a week in a MMO and getting ALL I've accomplish into a lost BECAUSE someone decided to spend 1000$ Us in the game and he got to the point That I am. It seriously , KILL ALL MY FUN.
FREE To Play MMO are for Casual players that plays 4-5 hour a week into a game not for an hardcore gamer.
How does someone spending money to quickly achieve what you did spending time interfere with how much fun you're having in the game? You still spent 60 hours in the game that you enjoyed while the other guy spent no time in game and just dropped a stupid amount of money into the game. Sounds more to me like a case of "That's not fair because I can't do it."
And 9 times out of 10 that person that dropped all that money to get ahead faster than playing to achieve what someone did playing the game will quit sooner than the other player too out of boredom and post on boards how the game has nothing to do.
Comments
The also fact that these days people have subs to all type of services, makes it more unlikely MMO's to work out with it, as it all cumulates to a larger bill, hence that general audience won't be very willing past maintaining 1 or 2 game subs.
I am here to share my taught , opinions and TRY HARD to understand HOW CAN PEOPLE ENJOY THESES CRAP GAMES.
I don't understand....
I just Seriously don't.
The only VALID reason I have is , You aren't gamer , You are just a Casual person looking for some pixel in your screen for about 3-4 hour a week and the fact that is FREE does satisfy you.
This is the ONLY valid reason That I can UNDERSTAND why would someone enjoy this...
You don't really like games after all... you're just there and it's free.
Cash shops? They aren't going away, and be shocked if any game, sub or otherwise, doesn't have one.
The difference is if they're pay to win, or in some cases, pay to continue past the noob zone. Those I have an issue with, but fortunately there are plenty that aren't like that.
Now there are a lot of free to play games out there that aren't much in the way of a game, especially the self playing browser based carbon copy types we keep see coming out of South Korea. Now those bore me within 30 seconds. A few years ago it was within 30 minutes, but they were still a bit of a novelty to me back then. Those seem to exist solely for the purpose of hooking whales in the short term.
I have to agree, that if you aren't having fun with a game, it's not for you. But remember, not everybody enjoys the same thing. Though to be honest, I have no idea who in the world enjoys having to urinate and defecate in a game, but apparently that's now in a game and you get penalized for not doing so. To that concept I can only say "ewwww! Not cool man, not cool".
But of course, different people like different things.
Ok, which of you sickos asked for a game to put in the potty dance and require bathroom breaks? I forgot the name of game that I know is doing that now, and it isn't even out yet though there are play videos up already. Sure, I'm making fun of that, err, mechanism, since to me it's not a fun one and worth a few jokes, but hey, if some people like it, they should look into that game.
(Really wish I could remember the name, sorry.)
Can't say I completely disagree with some of the issues the OP was ranting about, but I can't really agree with his post either. But that's fine, it's all opinions anyway. I'm off to play some WoW, quickly followed by a large dose of The Bard's Tale Trilogy. (Yeah, the remake of the classic.) and maybe some Everspace if I have time left.
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
I agree with all your saying ... thanks for replying.
I know that not everyone have the same taste.... that dosen't means That I can understand how and why.
I don'y understand zoophila for instance do you ?
But liking different things , or different games , has nothing to do with GOOD games.
It can be an UNICORN game and the game is awesome.
It can be a soccer game with cars.... rocket league.....
I mean any kinds of games can be good.
To me , a Free to Play model game CAN't Be good in any way.
Cashop or not.
Unicorn or cool soliders... whatwever theme you prefer...
it's free it's not a good game.
Why ?
Because the Game Design is a failure.
the Game Design / Level Design is made to make you pay.
The game is just a big trap and they just watches the whales goes in drop the $$$$$$$
As i saied....
i love games I really love games...
They are disease , pollution , along the real games.
But the OP declares that it's not free, while at the same time implying that it's because people play for free that games end up being poor quality and/or weak on content due to lack of revenue.
Pick an argument. There are plenty of good ones for either side. As someone who has subbed to sub-based games, and played for free on F2P games, I'm very familiar. And so are MMO developers, who usually at some point offer BOTH. I suspect the only reason they start as "sub only" anymore is to minimize launch bloat, and afterward offer a "free" option later as hardware concerns subside. I suspect this has been the case as early as DCUO. Probably earlier.
But aside from all that, there's a simple truth, which is that different people define "value" in different ways, and that our play schedules differ for a myriad of reasons. No one would argue that playing $15 a month and playing 20-30-40...50+ hours a month is absolutely worth the money. But I bet no one would argue that paying $45 for no new content doesn't really work for them, either. And $45 is about the bare minimum that subscribers pay between updates for nothing other than access to the game.
In the end, CHOICE is the answer. You find ways to get F2P people to buy in, and you try to keep incentives for subscribers to stay subbed. It's all revenue that goes toward profit, salaries, and adding to the game.
F2P brings in revenue, in direct and indirect ways. And in most cases, subs aren't enough to keep games afloat anymore as time passes. The exceptions prove the rule. A game that wants to last has to have good models for both.
Anarchy Online
DAOC
Earth & Beyond
Neocron.
Today i just don't want to do it anymore. And this was back when you had to pay 50+ dollars for the box too. And don't forget about expansions.
Those small-medium purchases can really add up.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Warframe
both great games. . .both free to play.
"I ride Ferrari, you ride lame BMW, throw that crap away and ride Ferrari".
"I hate fish, fish is not tasty, fishing is cruel and bad, throw that nonsense away".
It's fine to like Ferraris or hate fish. It's not nice to dictate others.
Dislike f2p? Your right. Pick WoW, Star Citizen, at the very end - Istaria and enjoy your adventures.
http://www.mmoblogg.wordpress.com
But you don't get to decide for others what they should play, offer advice based on your own experiences of games by all means. The other thing is, just be aware that some games you think are good, others might consider to be 'crap' too.
Now it's a mess and tons of good games are kill by their game models.
The games is good for everyone , but people stop play it because of the game model plan.
Yes there exception , there will always be but I don't like where MMO are right now generally speaking and where they are going in the future. The power is in our hands , we decide what we buy.
I mean ok , keep playing those games. I started the war but myself, my friends on discord hey come try this game , what is call ?
This game
I go see it , ohh it's free sorry not interested.
I am only 1 person , if I can bring another with me that think the same my goal is accomplish.
I don't want that these game succeed for the only reason , that I know those games were made by bankers and companies , not by gamer and passionate people that love video games.
i don't have respect for those people. They don't have respect for video games.
I am looking at my Valkyrie Profile , Xenogears , Tales of Desnity II , my Suikoden series , EverQuest boxes and arts.
lol ... These games wasn't made for money , it was made by passion and love.
Free to Play games are just a jokes.
F2P moves to a model where they have to pull up some income, so they release updates and push some cosmetics in a way. B2P releases the whole expansion, but you have to buy it again. Both are the same in some way. F2P is more optional though.
I prefer B2P though, because it filters out the bots and overall toxic people.
Hey , you want a Burger it's FREE
My reaction will be , No thanks , Who are you ? Did you watch your hands before doing it ? What did you put in the burger IDK , If I want a burger ill go to the restaurant and i'll pay for one , I will know by certitude that my burger is good.
I feel the same with free to play games, you don't know in what your jumping into, probably just a big trap , maybe not but after all , if you pay for something good , you'll have something good.
Sell me a good games : I'll buy it
Sell me something free with hidden traps : fuck you and keep it for yourself.
Come along. I have a F2P game for you in my white panel van ...
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore