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Citizencon Stream is Paywalled

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  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,295
    >>> according to you >>>

    I think you will have a hard time finding a quote were i say "MMOs are never done".

    For Star Citizen i often say "its done when its done".

    And when an MMO has launched, it gets constantly tweaked and enlarged. Especially PvP balance is a never ending battle.

    You seem to completely forget that the presentation will be watched LIVE by thousands of people in the audience. In your fixation that everything is faked and its all a movie only, you have forgotten that e.g. last year these people attending the event were able to do some hands on playtesting of the new stuff. That it was NOT only on the big screen, that the people on stage where NOT only pretending to move their joysticks. That there were a lot of volunteers helping with the event.

    But ... i know i know ... that does not fit your narrative ... "everything is faked !" .... does that not get old ? You have been proven to be wrong. Remember that "Oh that Dragonfly never really flew into that hangar bay .... " How many players have flown Dragonflies into hangars during playtesting in the meantime ? Hundreds ? Thousands ?


    Have fun


  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    Erillion said:


    But ... i know i know ... that does not fit your narrative .... does that not get old ? You have been proven to be wrong. 
    I think the same could be said to the other side of the argument as well.
    Nebilim
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    MaxBacon said:


    The paywalled content is the low-viewership content not the main presentation, it's like last year those panels where the devs talk about the game art, how they create stuff, etc... 

    Not agreeing why any paywall on that in the first place, but this is like let's paywall our most uninteresting content that less people care about, kinda of a self-defeating thing lol
    is that the in person schedule or the streaming schedule? I would hope people who attend the thing get to see everything for 'free' (price of admission, which is also tiered so obviously not everyone will see everything) but of course people who pay more will have more access I suppose.

    Used to be conventions were about showcasing shit people were doing and planning for the past year and into the next. Now its all a money making scam for everyone. Every convention now charges admission (most tiered with super secret access) when they all used to be free. It used to be the price of doing business. Where you gave something in the hopes of getting more back.

    Now everyone charges and fools are happy to pay. Its just another sign of the dumbing down of the masses. 60 dollar half finished games are insult enough charging you to see it in advance and watch it progress is just icing on the cake.

    Cant blame them as its now industry 'norm' but the more radical norms become well...
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
     Such blatant greed and disregard for the community and there own  backers ..

      True Colors are showing ..          

        Im glad ive avoided this , in everyway
    Nebilim
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    The Road To Release?

    https://youtu.be/dE-vX9eU7hw

    AlmostLancelot

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    edited August 2018
    Erillion said:
    >>> according to you >>>

    I think you will have a hard time finding a quote were i say "MMOs are never done".

    For Star Citizen i often say "its done when its done".

    And when an MMO has launched, it gets constantly tweaked and enlarged. Especially PvP balance is a never ending battle.

    You seem to completely forget that the presentation will be watched LIVE by thousands of people in the audience. In your fixation that everything is faked and its all a movie only, you have forgotten that e.g. last year these people attending the event were able to do some hands on playtesting of the new stuff. That it was NOT only on the big screen, that the people on stage where NOT only pretending to move their joysticks. That there were a lot of volunteers helping with the event.

    But ... i know i know ... that does not fit your narrative ... "everything is faked !" .... does that not get old ? You have been proven to be wrong. Remember that "Oh that Dragonfly never really flew into that hangar bay .... " How many players have flown Dragonflies into hangars during playtesting in the meantime ? Hundreds ? Thousands ?


    Have fun


    if that were true then those in attendance would be putting in enough money to cover the excuse Roberts gave...it was costing them low 6 figures more to put on the show this year.

    I didnt see anyone claiming to do what the 'showcase' video showed...unpack a dragonfly, get on it, take off out of a ship, fly through space, then land it on another ship, get off and pilot the cargo ship to a planet etc etc etc.

    As for the last part I did a search for the videos you love to cite and in April of this year (18 months after the movie was shown) a guy posted this...



    thats the 'best I could find.

    there are others where they put one into landed ships but I didnt find many at all where they got one into the ship they put one in during that movie. This one is a Cutlass which is about twice as big as whatever the one was the supposedly landed on in that movie.

    Here is one (similar to what happened in space) where a guy in on a planet this was made just about a month ago



    So while you can make these claims hundreds and thousands of people have done it the actual videos I have been able to find show the same thing. Ships gets in and flips and flops all over the place. Unless it glitches through the other ship (plenty of those) then it seems to be 'ok'.

    Here is one the guy takes 20 minutes and a half dozen tries finally gets it inside but it bounces back out about 800 meters away. So he makes another attempt and well...


    But we are expected to believe the test video from 2 years ago the guys did it absolutely perfectly with a single try and no issues? I havent seen a single playe rmade video where there wasnt some glitch somewhere involving what they claimed they could do 'seamlessly' two years ago.
    Nebilim
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited August 2018
    rodarin said:
    But we are expected to believe the test video from 2 years ago the guys did it absolutely perfectly with a single try and no issues?
    Why not?

    They made a specific build for the event with likely limited features and content that was throughly tested through and through so there are no glitches or minimal amount.

    Common practice, nothing unreasonable there.

    You still hang on your paranoia of fake vids?
    FlyByKnight
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,765
    edited August 2018
    The Road To Release?
    They haven't talked about describing the release of SC for many years now, so perhaps that keynote it's to shed light on the scope of the game by release, the milestones left to achieve, etc...

    rodarin said:
    But we are expected to believe the test video from 2 years ago the guys did it absolutely perfectly with a single try and no issues? I havent seen a single playe rmade video where there wasnt some glitch somewhere involving what they claimed they could do 'seamlessly' two years ago.
    They were extremely careful on something well rehearsed; if I was to rehearse many times that I would learn the best way to prevent the issues that could cause the usual collision bugs. Get over it already.
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,259
    edited August 2018
    rodarin said:

    if that were true then those in attendance would be putting in enough money to cover the excuse Roberts gave...it was costing them low 6 figures more to put on the show this year.

    I didnt see anyone claiming to do what the 'showcase' video showed...unpack a dragonfly, get on it, take off out of a ship, fly through space, then land it on another ship, get off and pilot the cargo ship to a planet etc etc etc.
    Damn son you mix a Freelancer with a Cutlass? And saying that a Cutlass is bigger than a Freelancer 2 times lol? How can you be so obsessed for a game a know so little about it lol ?

    There you go:

    Freelancer

    Cutlass


    Most of the glitches and bugs you find on the live servers are network related, that's why its easier to make controled presentations.

    Same reason why single player games are easier to do than the massive online ones.

    Last CitizenCon live play went like this:



    I'm sure you'll say that's all faked now and when thousands of backers get to play it and post on youtube you'll forget about it or make more dumb tinfoil conspiracy theories lol
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,765
    edited August 2018
    In simple terms:
    • Keynote and Closing/final presentation are free for all (main event)

    • Panels & interviews are for subscribers (who are paying for this kind of shows)

    • Panels & interviews are free for all later "when video are edited and uploaded online"

    • If you still want to see the panels "LIVE" on stream, but are not a subscriber, you still can by being Concierge or by buying a "one time event ticket" subscription dedicated to the event.


    Now I thought at first the paywall was forced, but the subscribers that already pay for the shows and all getting the live access to side-content that'll get posted for everyone after the Livestream is not that unfair.

    So stream mess ups result in salt that results in them hiring a professional company that results in a 3x larger event that doubled its cost. So tickets didn't cover the cost this time huh
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    GdemamiAlmostLancelot
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    edited August 2018
    Don't know if the Relay article got posted 

    https://relay.sc/article/citizencon-warbond-edition-cig-fails-star-citizen-backers

    CIG has crowdfunded over $190 million to develop Star Citizen and untold millions more from subscribers.  CIG lives off of the goodwill, generosity, and excitement of the Star Citizen community. Poisoning the well by forcing the members of that community to throw them yet another $20 USD just so they can keep apprised of the game they helped finance is just absurd and frankly paints CIG as wildly out of touch.


    Octagon7711
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,739
    sgel said:
    So much greed.
    because gamers are stupid....All these companies know the majority will pay whatever they ask, so they do it.
    GdemamiNebilim
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,259
    Gamers aren't stupid. More like entitled, imature and ignorant about game dev business.

    That's the reason for 99% of forum crying lol
    GdemamiKyleran
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,071
    Torval said:
    Blizzcon tickets are $200 each at a minimum. The fancy dinner stuff costs more I think ($500) and the "virtual tickets" are $40. This is normal convention stuff, but don't let that stop your irrational judgement of one game company over another.


    The critic cultists of this game are as freaky as the fanboys.
    Ironically similar to atheism, being a critic of SC does not require one to adopt any particular set of beliefs whereas being a 'true supporter' requires one to accept some very specific items on faith.  There are many different ways to criticize Star Citizen whereas there is only one 'gospel of Roberts'.  As such, the "critic cultist" label doesn't work.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited August 2018
    Torval said:
    Blizzcon tickets are $200 each at a minimum. The fancy dinner stuff costs more I think ($500) and the "virtual tickets" are $40. This is normal convention stuff, but don't let that stop your irrational judgement of one game company over another.


    The critic cultists of this game are as freaky as the fanboys.
    well the difference for me ..
     
     Is Blizz has been delivering solid products for over 20 years to millions of players a proven Dev house ...

     SC has barely a functional Pre Alpha

      Blizz was not charging for those conventions at the start ( and this referencing , before BlizzCon they were Hosted Conventions that were free) 05 was first paid ..

      And ill add Blizz is hosting Conventions and charging less for Delivered products ...
       SC hasnt even launched ...
    PhaserlightGdemamiNebilim
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,071
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Blizzcon tickets are $200 each at a minimum. The fancy dinner stuff costs more I think ($500) and the "virtual tickets" are $40. This is normal convention stuff, but don't let that stop your irrational judgement of one game company over another.


    The critic cultists of this game are as freaky as the fanboys.
    Ironically similar to atheism, being a critic of SC does not require one to adopt any particular set of beliefs whereas being a 'true supporter' requires one to accept some very specific items on faith.  There are many different ways to criticize Star Citizen whereas there is only one 'gospel of Roberts'.  As such, the "critic cultist" label doesn't work.
    Hahaha, you keep telling yourself that lie. Also, notice how you had to deflect the thing that triggered you instead of actually answering my point? Guilty.

    And I'm not a fan of this game at all. It doesn't look good or fun at this stage. It looks like it will turn out to be a fancier clunkier Elite Dangerous which was a total disappointment.
    Oh, I criticize Star Citizen heavily, but I don't think that means I'm part of a cult.

    More cults would probably fizzle sooner if they were held up to scrutiny and criticism.
    Nebilim

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,766
    It's pretty common for any Convention stream to cost money, like Torval said with Blizzcon. I don't like how this is turning out at all in terms of development and actual gameplay, but the Citizencon stream costing 20 dollars isn't a big deal. 
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Slimeballs.
    Nebilim
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,259
    edited August 2018
    The main presentation is free to watch live. It's only some technic dev panels that require you to be a subscriber , concierge or pay 20$ to see live.

    Also everything will be posted on youtube some houra after the show. 

    It's another non issue made into drama, again lol



    Comes the show everyone will have a great time, they will show a lot of the amazing stuff  and make millions in the process whille be enjoying the new released update.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    edited August 2018
    This is pretty much what I would call convention feature creep.  CR has felt the need to make conventions bigger and therefore must charge extra to support his vision.

    Whenever controversy explodes from out of nowhere I take it to mean a Star Citizen Convention must be coming up soon.  It's a good way to drum up more business for the game.  

    I counted 20 locked threads on the general forum this morning, just from looking at the first page.

    [Article]
    CitizenCon Warbond Edition: CIG Fails Star Citizen Backers
    Today CIG failed the Star Citizen community by limiting who will be allowed to watch CitizenCon. **Updated with comments from Chris Roberts**
    https://relay.sc/article/citizencon-warbond-edition-cig-fails-star-citizen-backers

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Torval said:
    Blizzcon tickets are $200 each at a minimum. The fancy dinner stuff costs more I think ($500) and the "virtual tickets" are $40. This is normal convention stuff, but don't let that stop your irrational judgement of one game company over another.


    The critic cultists of this game are as freaky as the fanboys.
    There's significant differences between the states of both studios and their products when Blizzard started charging for conventions, a fact @Scorchien pointed out.  Comparing the two as if they're equal is disingenuous.
    Octagon7711Gdemami

    image
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    Babuinix said:


    Most of the glitches and bugs you find on the live servers are network related, that's why its easier to make controled presentations.

    Same reason why single player games are easier to do than the massive online ones.

    Last CitizenCon live play went like this:



    I'm sure you'll say that's all faked now and when thousands of backers get to play it and post on youtube you'll forget about it or make more dumb tinfoil conspiracy theories lol
    Someone claims there have been hundreds and thousands of such dockings, You picked 3 videos and only one of them actually shows a dragonfly going into another ship and the ship it was going into was landed on a space station, and I watched that one too. Its basically the only one where something crazy didnt happen. Probably because it was on the space station.

    Regardless they do have some sort of 'docking' procedures but there not as advertised thats for sure if they were there would be a lot more videos on youtube highlighting them.

    Even on a closed system it might account for latency but not the issues everyone had trying to land as in speed and trajectory. And while practice could help its unlikely to be as 'seamless' as that and lets not forget the thing disappeared and reappeared after it got in as well as the half dozen cuts and repositioning of camera angles. Which is precisely why theyre putting the viewing of this behind a wall and not letting people capture it unedited. I wouldnt be surprised if it had logos all over it and any 'unofficial' release of any 'raw' footage would be threatened with whatever they can think of.


    Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Torval said:
    Blizzcon tickets are $200 each at a minimum. The fancy dinner stuff costs more I think ($500) and the "virtual tickets" are $40. This is normal convention stuff, but don't let that stop your irrational judgement of one game company over another.


    The critic cultists of this game are as freaky as the fanboys.
    I have gone to one convention in my life and it was for Star Wars in Orlando a few years back.  It was insane.  The tickets just get you into the convention center.  After that, you have to get wristbands to attend panels (getting on line at 4AM when the place doesn't open until 8:30) or spend money on things like autographs (which once again you had to pre-buy a ticket for and get in line hours early and hope the time didn't run out).  The "Jedi Master" tickets were $750 I think and they sold out in minutes.  Fan is derived from fanatic. And let me tell you, my experience with that one convention showed me that folks that attend are true fanatics.  I guarantee you that Blizzard could charge $1000 for certain premium tickets and sell out.

    You know things are bad when I leave thinking to myself that if I ever did it again (never in a million years) I'd only do it after buying Jedi Master tickets for everyone so we could skip the lines.  For my family that's almost $4k.    Luckily The Last Jedi killed any chance of that.




    laseritOctagon7711[Deleted User]

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    Torval said:
    Blizzcon tickets are $200 each at a minimum. The fancy dinner stuff costs more I think ($500) and the "virtual tickets" are $40. This is normal convention stuff, but don't let that stop your irrational judgement of one game company over another.


    The critic cultists of this game are as freaky as the fanboys.
    I have gone to one convention in my life and it was for Star Wars in Orlando a few years back.  It was insane.  The tickets just get you into the convention center.  After that, you have to get wristbands to attend panels (getting on line at 4AM when the place doesn't open until 8:30) or spend money on things like autographs (which once again you had to pre-buy a ticket for and get in line hours early and hope the time didn't run out).  The "Jedi Master" tickets were $750 I think and they sold out in minutes.  Fan is derived from fanatic. And let me tell you, my experience with that one convention showed me that folks that attend are true fanatics.  I guarantee you that Blizzard could charge $1000 for certain premium tickets and sell out.

    You know things are bad when I leave thinking to myself that if I ever did it again (never in a million years) I'd only do it after buying Jedi Master tickets for everyone so we could skip the lines.  For my family that's almost $4k.    Luckily The Last Jedi killed any chance of that.




    I went to a local Star Wars/ Star Trek Convention once, just to see what the whole experience would be like.  Tickets were expensive and they did go pretty fast.  It was interesting seeing and talking to the actors and hearing their stories on stage.  A lot of memorabilia for sale but nothing that I couldn't pickup on the internet so I ended up not buying any extras.  I agree that conventions are an interesting experience and everyone should attend at least one in their life.  After that so much of it is recorded you can just watch the panels and hear all those personal stories on YouTube.  

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,259
    rodarin said:
    Someone claims there have been hundreds and thousands of such dockings, You picked 3 videos and only one of them actually shows a dragonfly going into another ship and the ship it was going into was landed on a space station, and I watched that one too. Its basically the only one where something crazy didnt happen. Probably because it was on the space station.

    Regardless they do have some sort of 'docking' procedures but there not as advertised thats for sure if they were there would be a lot more videos on youtube highlighting them.

    Even on a closed system it might account for latency but not the issues everyone had trying to land as in speed and trajectory. And while practice could help its unlikely to be as 'seamless' as that and lets not forget the thing disappeared and reappeared after it got in as well as the half dozen cuts and repositioning of camera angles. Which is precisely why theyre putting the viewing of this behind a wall and not letting people capture it unedited. I wouldnt be surprised if it had logos all over it and any 'unofficial' release of any 'raw' footage would be threatened with whatever they can think of.
    Cmon dude stop with the delusion, if you had any experience with the game besides hating on it you wouldn't sound so crazy lol

    You only need to type on youtube for "Star Citizen + docking" and you get hundreds of videos of players trying to cram all kinds of ships inside one another.

    It's all seamless and manual, there's no "auto-docking" mechanism that magically makes a ship swallow another lol

    It's also far from finished or polished, hence why you see lot of bugs and physics fighting when people try to cram things into spaces who were not designed to carry them lol






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