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Will the cheaters be the only winners?
Kyleran
Member LegendaryPosts: 43,508
An article in MassivelyOP about the new Fallen Earth owners struggle to get cheating under control reminded me of a concern I've been pondering for a while.
We are all painfully aware even the largest game publishers struggle tirelessly (and perhaps futilely?) against those who hack, exploit or otherwise cheat shamelessly, particularly in, but not limited to, PVP centric games.
With a number of PVP oriented indie games in progress (CF, CU, Ashes, SC, etc.) will they really be able to keep cheating from becoming rampant which at least in my case will strongly deter me from playing.
Especially as most indies will lack the funds to rigorously tackle the problem. (Not SC of course.)
https://massivelyop.com/2018/08/22/frustrated-fallen-earth-owners-focus-on-thwarting-cheaters-rewriting-source-code/
We are all painfully aware even the largest game publishers struggle tirelessly (and perhaps futilely?) against those who hack, exploit or otherwise cheat shamelessly, particularly in, but not limited to, PVP centric games.
With a number of PVP oriented indie games in progress (CF, CU, Ashes, SC, etc.) will they really be able to keep cheating from becoming rampant which at least in my case will strongly deter me from playing.
Especially as most indies will lack the funds to rigorously tackle the problem. (Not SC of course.)
https://massivelyop.com/2018/08/22/frustrated-fallen-earth-owners-focus-on-thwarting-cheaters-rewriting-source-code/
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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I used to use cheat codes only after playing the game fully, because I knew as soon as I did I wanted to move on soon after.
Some peeps like cheating to troll and ruin others' games, and some people like pulling the wings of bugs.....I think they like to picnic together.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Anyway back to my original point, gamers will never allow a game developer root access to their computer so they can monitor for hacking software or executable injections/sideloading.
But they'll be more than happy bitching about cheaters though.
Every damn time a similar software is even suggested everyone jumps on the bandwagon and calls it malware because of its proprietary nature.
That's a poor example, though, because Solitaire has a very crappy game-design based on pure luck(mostly). It's like playing a slot machine or Blackjack. It's a game that's not really designed to give you a fair chance at winning on any given hand. Video game design is usually far less weighted against you.
Anyway, who cares if someone cheats at their single-player stuff
------------------------------------------
There will be cheating anytime there's competition with others. That's a fact of life. Some people are so fragile they simply cannot accept/deal with losing. I wonder when we'll start seeing participation trophies in video games.
It's always worse in any free to play game, for obvious reasons. Just having a basic upfront monetary cost stops quite a few cheaters. So, that should help some of these indie games(CU, Pantheon, etc.).
Even in a P2P game, though, people will just as freely cheat if the developers do not quickly and actively ban.
Then there's the hacked/stolen accounts. In my experience, this tends to be the biggest source of the problem. And, a lot of times this is from the players being stupid(buying gold/accounts, falling for phishing scams, power-levelling services, etc.) and bringing it on themselves.
There always seems to be account misuse in MMOs with a hacking problem. So, having pay walls can only go so far.
Really, even in the AAA games I've played, every single one of them seems to have a massive amount of botting/hacking/exploiting when they launch. It seems like it takes the developers forever to patch the leaks, in every single one, as well.
So, with that in mind, it's not like the big studios are smashing these things in any reasonable timeframe, either.
TL:DR --
The main and only reason this could have a bigger impact on indie devs, imo, is because of smaller population counts. Big name games can afford to lose a few disgruntled players while waiting long times for fixes, but these indie games will be starting with smaller playerbases.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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Yes, cheating in MP games just multiplies the issues for everyone.
I just don't understand the thinking of cheaters. Is it fun? For how long? Why? Do they really feel a sense of accomplishment from it?
I guess figuring out how to cheat would bring some form of pride with it, and maybe pwning nubs for a short time gives them a thrill, but then what? Keep it up as long as possible until they get banned? Do it again? Move on and repeat in another game?
Do cheaters always have to cheat, or can they get enjoyment out of a full play through without it?
If I could cheat, I would probably do it on some l33t players that always talk shit and put others down, just to knock them down a peg or 5...everyone needs a reality check every once in a while.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
MAGA
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's too easy to cheat, cheats are too accessible, and the punishment doesn't mean anything if people are willing to pay for the game again.
I play Counterstrike Global Offensive almost every day in ranked, and the amount of hackers is insane. They have tried different methods to get rid of hackers but it doesn't seem to ever do anything. I use prime matchmaking which requires a phone number tied to your account, and you still see occasional hackers. They implemented Overwatch which allows players to watch reported matches and ban hackers, but that only works after the game. I have friends who have been banned for hacking, and they just buy a new copy of the game on a new steam account and hack again. Over and over. I don't know why they do it other than they are garbage at the game and just want to make people angry.
Battleye seems to be making a decent step towards hacking removal, on rainbow six siege you can see every time a player gets banned and it's banning at least 1 or 2 every minute.
Sometimes I prefer console shooters because the amount of hackers is so low you almost never encounter one. Probably because of the upfront investment, if you hack your entire console gets banned from online services.
In terms of cheating, you can divide games into two camps. Those which do most calculations client side and those that handle key checks server side. If you are a client side game, you are pretty much screwed from the get go. Surprisingly, some big titles fall into the first camp - Black Desert and Tom Clancy's Division come to mind. I don't know what GTA 5 is doing, but I'm thinking it must be client side heavy as well.
If you are smart enough, you will code your game in a way where cheating isn't blatantly obvious. Those games end up with bot farmers and cheaters who get "help" from their software, but don't tear through the fabric of the game. In this case, cheating probably doesn't become entirely rampant and is a force that can, if nothing else, be combated.
In my opinion, highly social, guild driven games (i.e. Crowfall) have an advantage. If your world has tight knit populations, the community can police itself to a degree. Big guilds will call their own members out. If you have a guild where most members are cheaters, chances are their house of cards will fall one day.
some are harmless an barley effect others IE cheating in online games, few are deadly an need to be lock away as they will hurt others in real life.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
'Winning' implies balanced and even conditions as part of the competition. When cheating is involved, it isn't 'winning'. Baseball, steroids. Football, steroids. Games, hacks. It's all the same to me.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I'm sure EVE is rife with cheaters, yet rarely did I ever feel I "lost" something because of blatant hacking.
Whereas while an Alpha backer in Archeage I have never tried to log in even once since launch day.
Between reports of horrific queues which alledgedly some guilds managed to totally avoid to allegations of selective DNS attacks in order to manipulate the early land rush I sat out at first waiting for Trion to correct.
They never did, and it got worse when reports came out hackers were using bots to scarf up any available land plots.
So as you advised, I never played the game, and they lost revenue.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon