Crowfall - Milestone 5.7 Means the World to Crowfall - MMORPG.com

SBFord · August 2018

Crowfall - Milestone 5.7 Means the World to Crowfall - MMORPG.com

If you follow crowd-funded games, you know there are certain moments where their evolution jumps a few generations. Those moments, generally precipitated by some large announcement or game update, are equal parts anticipation (for us) and anxiety (for developers). They generate hype as they make their way through the MMORPG fanbase bringing stray birds back to the roost. Update 5.7 (conveniently linked just for you) is one of those updates.

Read the full story here

Arkade99 · August 2018

5.7 was definitely a significant patch. The world feels much more alive than it did before. That said, I wouldn't call it a game quite yet. We still need win conditions. The way it currently stands, one faction could go crazy on the last day, take all the forts and keeps, and "win" the campaign. Nothing that happened prior to that would matter and actually winning the campaign would provide no benefits, as exports are not yet tied to the campaign rules.

In 5.8, I think we'll see the first real campaign with actual win conditions. The world will also be much larger. In 5.7, we have 4 zones, but 3 of those are beachheads, so there's only 1 zone to fight in. In 5.8, we'll have 10 or more.

Kajidourden · August 2018

It really has made a huge difference. I would argue that it's still very much a test environment but you can definitely have a little fun testing now; whereas before I would say it's only to poke your head in and check out updates.

Aeander · August 2018

Kajidourden said:

It really has made a huge difference. I would argue that it's still very much a test environment but you can definitely have a little fun testing now; whereas before I would say it's only to poke your head in and check out updates.

Would now be an enjoyable time for someone like me, who was already a backer, to test the game?

Does the game have a proper character creation system now? How polished is combat?

Kajidourden · August 2018

Aeander said:

Kajidourden said:

It really has made a huge difference. I would argue that it's still very much a test environment but you can definitely have a little fun testing now; whereas before I would say it's only to poke your head in and check out updates.

Would now be an enjoyable time for someone like me, who was already a backer, to test the game?

Does the game have a proper character creation system now? How polished is combat?

Character creation is basically non-existent, which makes sense since everything will be wiped multiple times anyway.

Combat got a huge polish update with 5.7, that said, it is still not up to par with a released game just yet.

Again, it's still a test environment....but it resembles/plays like a game much moreso than previous iterations.

JamesGoblin · August 2018

Aeander said:
<snip>
How polished is combat?

To add to what others said, and also as a reply to Tim's:

From the point of view of this bar stool dev, it represents a developmental fulcrum wherein creation gives way to iteration.

In a stream from couple months ago they mentioned that, now that all races and classes are finally in (*cough* Frostweaver *cough*) their 3D artists and animators are finally - after three years! - switching from creating to polishing.

We can already see some results, tho combat is still quite rough in general especially if you compare it to (already launched) AAAs, including MOBAs; I'm saying this "just in case" since people are comparing it quite often.

Kyleran · August 2018

So, the high level status is pretty much the same as it always is; more updates and "fine tuning" to do, with soft launch probably 18-24 months out.

Check.

Slapshot1188 · August 2018

Kyleran said:

So, the high level status is pretty much the same as it always in, more updates and "fine tuning" to do, with soft launch probably 18-24 months out.

Check.

Did they say soft launch 18-24 month out? I'd be disappointed if that were the case...
..but then again I think the whole idea of a "soft launch" is bullshit anyway.

Sephrus · August 2018

Can't wait to play this game when it comes out, just in time for my retirement in 2047.

Kajidourden · August 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

So, the high level status is pretty much the same as it always in, more updates and "fine tuning" to do, with soft launch probably 18-24 months out.

Check.

Did they say soft launch 18-24 month out? I'd be disappointed if that were the case...
..but then again I think the whole idea of a "soft launch" is bullshit anyway.

Truth be told I hope it's at LEAST that far away. I want it done right, not done fast.

Aeander · August 2018

Kajidourden said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

So, the high level status is pretty much the same as it always in, more updates and "fine tuning" to do, with soft launch probably 18-24 months out.

Check.

Did they say soft launch 18-24 month out? I'd be disappointed if that were the case...
..but then again I think the whole idea of a "soft launch" is bullshit anyway.

Truth be told I hope it's at LEAST that far away. I want it done right, not done fast.

Right. You only get one chance at a first impression.

Solancer · August 2018

In my opinion, that first impression been long passed, but then again this game is totally not my tea. This sure feel like a milk you for long as possible game dev time, there is no other pretty way of saying it. I mean common by the time this game is even ready for you, we might have WoW 2 and over take this PvP junk of a game, just saying another PvP center game is always a bad idea in my opinion. Yeah, if you are into it then I do hope it make it, after all I am still a gamer, still nice to have more games even if I don't like this type.

blamo2000 · August 2018

Didn't the second Final Fantasy MMO get two chances for a first impression?

Slapshot1188 · August 2018

Solancer said:

In my opinion, that first impression been long passed, but then again this game is totally not my tea. This sure feel like a milk you for long as possible game dev time, there is no other pretty way of saying it. I mean common by the time this game is even ready for you, we might have WoW 2 and over take this PvP junk of a game, just saying another PvP center game is always a bad idea in my opinion. Yeah, if you are into it then I do hope it make it, after all I am still a gamer, still nice to have more games even if I don't like this type.

Something tells me you are not part of the target audience for this game...

genaknosc · August 2018

They aren't "milking" anybody. They aren't running monthly promo sales like CoE of Star Citizen. Want to buy some cosmetic castles for your personal server? Cool, go ahead. Otherwise, there really isn't much to "buy" except more alt account access, and there isn't any push by the Devs to have people do that.

The vast majority of their funding is and has come from investment and licensing.

I know it is popular to compare this with games like Star Citizen but it is so different and nothing at all alike.

Taking forever for this game to come out?

They expanded scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted.

Sorry, what should we tell them - "hey I see you are going to make a better game than you were originally because now you have more funding. Please stop. I would prefer you make a shittier game that will release earlier so I can complain sooner and quit playing on my original target quitting date. Making a better game doesn't help any of us who would rather just shitpost and don't actually play the game."

Slapshot1188 · August 2018

genaknosc said:

They aren't "milking" anybody. They aren't running monthly promo sales like CoE of Star Citizen. Want to buy some cosmetic castles for your personal server? Cool, go ahead. Otherwise, there really isn't much to "buy" except more alt account access, and there isn't any push by the Devs to have people do that.

The vast majority of their funding is and has come from investment and licensing.

I know it is popular to compare this with games like Star Citizen but it is so different and nothing at all alike.

Taking forever for this game to come out?

They expanded scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted.

Sorry, what should we tell them - "hey I see you are going to make a better game than you were originally because now you have more funding. Please stop. I would prefer you make a shittier game that will release earlier so I can complain sooner and quit playing on my original target quitting date. Making a better game doesn't help any of us who would rather just shitpost and don't actually play the game."

I have an Amber KS package and some unusable number of castles, keeps and forts. I have no problem personally with them having delayed the game because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted".

That said, any game that delays it's release by YEARS should offer refunds to those that do not want to wait. That's not shitposting. That's simply fair. I do not know if CF still offers refunds, but if not, they should.

The simple principle is that if a company decides on its own to change the scope/technology/whatever in a game knowing it will cause years of delays, that the customer should have an opt out. That also shuts down all criticism about the delays because there is nothing to complain about if you can get your money back. This is what CU has done and it's a major reason they do not catch a lot of flack (in comparison to their peers) for the delays.

This isn't about legality. It's just about doing what is right. This is true for games I like (such as Crowfall) and also games I don't.

Aeander · August 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

genaknosc said:

They aren't "milking" anybody. They aren't running monthly promo sales like CoE of Star Citizen. Want to buy some cosmetic castles for your personal server? Cool, go ahead. Otherwise, there really isn't much to "buy" except more alt account access, and there isn't any push by the Devs to have people do that.

The vast majority of their funding is and has come from investment and licensing.

I know it is popular to compare this with games like Star Citizen but it is so different and nothing at all alike.

Taking forever for this game to come out?

They expanded scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted.

Sorry, what should we tell them - "hey I see you are going to make a better game than you were originally because now you have more funding. Please stop. I would prefer you make a shittier game that will release earlier so I can complain sooner and quit playing on my original target quitting date. Making a better game doesn't help any of us who would rather just shitpost and don't actually play the game."

I have an Amber KS package and some unusable number of castles, keeps and forts. I have no problem personally with them having delayed the game because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted".

That said, any game that delays it's release by YEARS should offer refunds to those that do not want to wait. That's not shitposting. That's simply fair. I do not know if CF still offers refunds, but if not, they should.

The simple principle is that if a company decides on its own to change the scope/technology/whatever in a game knowing it will cause years of delays, that the customer should have an opt out. That also shuts down all criticism about the delays because there is nothing to complain about if you can get your money back. This is what CU has done and it's a major reason they do not catch a lot of flack (in comparison to their peers) for the delays.

This isn't about legality. It's just about doing what is right. This is true for games I like (such as Crowfall) and also games I don't.

If Crowfall had expanded its scope in a grandiose, unrealistic way, as Star Citizen did, then I would agree with you. However, the scope changes in Crowfall have essentially amounted to just uncutting corners that were initially meant to be cut (like race & gender locked classes, which they had called archetypes to justify the mediocrity of it all). The situation with Crowfall was that the initial pitch offered the core of a game with many cut corners, and now they are in a position to put those very basic, generally expected corners back.

Slapshot1188 · August 2018

Aeander said:

Slapshot1188 said:

genaknosc said:

They aren't "milking" anybody. They aren't running monthly promo sales like CoE of Star Citizen. Want to buy some cosmetic castles for your personal server? Cool, go ahead. Otherwise, there really isn't much to "buy" except more alt account access, and there isn't any push by the Devs to have people do that.

The vast majority of their funding is and has come from investment and licensing.

I know it is popular to compare this with games like Star Citizen but it is so different and nothing at all alike.

Taking forever for this game to come out?

They expanded scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted.

Sorry, what should we tell them - "hey I see you are going to make a better game than you were originally because now you have more funding. Please stop. I would prefer you make a shittier game that will release earlier so I can complain sooner and quit playing on my original target quitting date. Making a better game doesn't help any of us who would rather just shitpost and don't actually play the game."

I have an Amber KS package and some unusable number of castles, keeps and forts. I have no problem personally with them having delayed the game because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted".

That said, any game that delays it's release by YEARS should offer refunds to those that do not want to wait. That's not shitposting. That's simply fair. I do not know if CF still offers refunds, but if not, they should.

The simple principle is that if a company decides on its own to change the scope/technology/whatever in a game knowing it will cause years of delays, that the customer should have an opt out. That also shuts down all criticism about the delays because there is nothing to complain about if you can get your money back. This is what CU has done and it's a major reason they do not catch a lot of flack (in comparison to their peers) for the delays.

This isn't about legality. It's just about doing what is right. This is true for games I like (such as Crowfall) and also games I don't.

If Crowfall had expanded its scope in a grandiose, unrealistic way, as Star Citizen did, then I would agree with you. However, the scope changes in Crowfall have essentially amounted to just uncutting corners that were initially meant to be cut (like race & gender locked classes, which they had called archetypes to justify the mediocrity of it all). The situation with Crowfall was that the initial pitch offered the core of a game with many cut corners, and now they are in a position to put those very basic, generally expected corners back.

Well there are apparently 2 very different stories then...

The game was originally planned to release Dec 2016.
Its now Aug 2018.
Per the post above it's another 18-24 months to "soft launch"
That puts us 4 years behind schedule.

The earlier poster said it was because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted"

Those are a LOT of corners being uncut to take an extra 4 years... Heck. That's a lot of corners being uncut just to get us to this point which is pretty much double the development timeline.

Again, personally, I am OK with it as I'd like this to be a complete and FUN game. But to be fair to people that put money in, they should really offer refunds because not everyone asked them to uncut the corners and spend an additional 4 years on the project...

Arkade99 · August 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

genaknosc said:

They aren't "milking" anybody. They aren't running monthly promo sales like CoE of Star Citizen. Want to buy some cosmetic castles for your personal server? Cool, go ahead. Otherwise, there really isn't much to "buy" except more alt account access, and there isn't any push by the Devs to have people do that.

The vast majority of their funding is and has come from investment and licensing.

I know it is popular to compare this with games like Star Citizen but it is so different and nothing at all alike.

Taking forever for this game to come out?

They expanded scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted.

Sorry, what should we tell them - "hey I see you are going to make a better game than you were originally because now you have more funding. Please stop. I would prefer you make a shittier game that will release earlier so I can complain sooner and quit playing on my original target quitting date. Making a better game doesn't help any of us who would rather just shitpost and don't actually play the game."

I have an Amber KS package and some unusable number of castles, keeps and forts. I have no problem personally with them having delayed the game because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted".

That said, any game that delays it's release by YEARS should offer refunds to those that do not want to wait. That's not shitposting. That's simply fair. I do not know if CF still offers refunds, but if not, they should.

The simple principle is that if a company decides on its own to change the scope/technology/whatever in a game knowing it will cause years of delays, that the customer should have an opt out. That also shuts down all criticism about the delays because there is nothing to complain about if you can get your money back. This is what CU has done and it's a major reason they do not catch a lot of flack (in comparison to their peers) for the delays.

This isn't about legality. It's just about doing what is right. This is true for games I like (such as Crowfall) and also games I don't.

I don't know what their current policy is on refunds, but they have a trusted trader program. You can sell your package to the trusted trader and then the trusted trader will sell it to someone else. The only caveat is that it's only for retired stuff. So pledge packages/items from KS, 2015, 2016 or 2017. If you were to buy a package now, you wouldn't be able to sell it to a trusted trader. That said, anyone buying now has a lot more info available to make their decision.

https://crowfall.com/en/trusted-traders/

I don't know if you'll get more, less or equal value by going that route, but it's an option and safer/easier than trying to sell it to another player on your own. According to the FAQ, you can profit from selling the package, but it would be dependent on what the trusted trader is offering.

https://crowfall.com/en/faq/your-account/trusted-traders/

Aeander · August 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

Aeander said:

Slapshot1188 said:

genaknosc said:

They aren't "milking" anybody. They aren't running monthly promo sales like CoE of Star Citizen. Want to buy some cosmetic castles for your personal server? Cool, go ahead. Otherwise, there really isn't much to "buy" except more alt account access, and there isn't any push by the Devs to have people do that.

The vast majority of their funding is and has come from investment and licensing.

I know it is popular to compare this with games like Star Citizen but it is so different and nothing at all alike.

Taking forever for this game to come out?

They expanded scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted.

Sorry, what should we tell them - "hey I see you are going to make a better game than you were originally because now you have more funding. Please stop. I would prefer you make a shittier game that will release earlier so I can complain sooner and quit playing on my original target quitting date. Making a better game doesn't help any of us who would rather just shitpost and don't actually play the game."

I have an Amber KS package and some unusable number of castles, keeps and forts. I have no problem personally with them having delayed the game because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted".

That said, any game that delays it's release by YEARS should offer refunds to those that do not want to wait. That's not shitposting. That's simply fair. I do not know if CF still offers refunds, but if not, they should.

The simple principle is that if a company decides on its own to change the scope/technology/whatever in a game knowing it will cause years of delays, that the customer should have an opt out. That also shuts down all criticism about the delays because there is nothing to complain about if you can get your money back. This is what CU has done and it's a major reason they do not catch a lot of flack (in comparison to their peers) for the delays.

This isn't about legality. It's just about doing what is right. This is true for games I like (such as Crowfall) and also games I don't.

If Crowfall had expanded its scope in a grandiose, unrealistic way, as Star Citizen did, then I would agree with you. However, the scope changes in Crowfall have essentially amounted to just uncutting corners that were initially meant to be cut (like race & gender locked classes, which they had called archetypes to justify the mediocrity of it all). The situation with Crowfall was that the initial pitch offered the core of a game with many cut corners, and now they are in a position to put those very basic, generally expected corners back.

Well there are apparently 2 very different stories then...

The game was originally planned to release Dec 2016.
Its now Aug 2018.
Per the post above it's another 18-24 months to "soft launch"
That puts us 4 years behind schedule.

The earlier poster said it was because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted"

Those are a LOT of corners being uncut to take an extra 4 years... Heck. That's a lot of corners being uncut just to get us to this point which is pretty much double the development timeline.

Again, personally, I am OK with it as I'd like this to be a complete and FUN game. But to be fair to people that put money in, they should really offer refunds because not everyone asked them to uncut the corners and spend an additional 4 years on the project...

To that, I simply say that we are in a time in which the entire concept of a crowdfunding MMO is unproven. I mean, as far as I can recall, the only released crowdfunded MMO is Shroud of the Avatar, and I doubt most would call that one release-worthy.

This has been a trend for all crowdfunded MMOs. I doubt any of these teams had a realistic idea of either the funds or the timeline required to deliver a MMO. That said, I backed Crowfall precisely because it is showing the most visible progress and has the most realistic scope of any current crowdfunded MMO.

Arkade99 · August 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

Kyleran said:

So, the high level status is pretty much the same as it always in, more updates and "fine tuning" to do, with soft launch probably 18-24 months out.

Check.

Did they say soft launch 18-24 month out? I'd be disappointed if that were the case...
..but then again I think the whole idea of a "soft launch" is bullshit anyway.

Soft launch was previously planned for end of 2018. They announced a month or two ago that they would not meet that timeline, but said that soft launch will happen as early as possible in 2019.

We know that they still need to complete milestones 5.8 and 5.9 before they get to Alpha. If they keep to their current pace and don't add any more milestones prior to alpha, then that should occur by the end of the year. Alpha and Beta aren't expected to be as long as they traditionally have been for other games, so I think it's a very high probability that the game will release in 2019. When in 2019 is the real question, but personally I'm not in a hurry. I've been testing the game for 3 years and more often than not, it's been an enjoyable experience.

Regarding the soft launch being "bullshit", I could see people having that view if they don't know exactly what Artcraft intends for their soft launch. It doesn't mean that the game won't be finished. It simply means that they won't be doing a big marketing campaign when they launch. Instead, they will wait a bit to make sure that the game is doing a good job of retaining players, tweaking as necessary to improve retention. Once they are satisfied, then they will do the big marketing blitz.

Prior to soft launch, there will be a free closed beta. The only requirement to be part of that beta is to create a Crowfall account prior to the beginning of that beta. Anyone who wants can play the game for free and decide whether or not they want to pay for it.

IsilithTehroth · August 2018

I really hope they give reason for a particular clan to live out of an outpost and defend it, instead of following a giant zerg like in planetside 2.

Arkade99 · August 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

Aeander said:

Slapshot1188 said:

genaknosc said:

They aren't "milking" anybody. They aren't running monthly promo sales like CoE of Star Citizen. Want to buy some cosmetic castles for your personal server? Cool, go ahead. Otherwise, there really isn't much to "buy" except more alt account access, and there isn't any push by the Devs to have people do that.

The vast majority of their funding is and has come from investment and licensing.

I know it is popular to compare this with games like Star Citizen but it is so different and nothing at all alike.

Taking forever for this game to come out?

They expanded scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted.

Sorry, what should we tell them - "hey I see you are going to make a better game than you were originally because now you have more funding. Please stop. I would prefer you make a shittier game that will release earlier so I can complain sooner and quit playing on my original target quitting date. Making a better game doesn't help any of us who would rather just shitpost and don't actually play the game."

I have an Amber KS package and some unusable number of castles, keeps and forts. I have no problem personally with them having delayed the game because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted".

That said, any game that delays it's release by YEARS should offer refunds to those that do not want to wait. That's not shitposting. That's simply fair. I do not know if CF still offers refunds, but if not, they should.

The simple principle is that if a company decides on its own to change the scope/technology/whatever in a game knowing it will cause years of delays, that the customer should have an opt out. That also shuts down all criticism about the delays because there is nothing to complain about if you can get your money back. This is what CU has done and it's a major reason they do not catch a lot of flack (in comparison to their peers) for the delays.

This isn't about legality. It's just about doing what is right. This is true for games I like (such as Crowfall) and also games I don't.

If Crowfall had expanded its scope in a grandiose, unrealistic way, as Star Citizen did, then I would agree with you. However, the scope changes in Crowfall have essentially amounted to just uncutting corners that were initially meant to be cut (like race & gender locked classes, which they had called archetypes to justify the mediocrity of it all). The situation with Crowfall was that the initial pitch offered the core of a game with many cut corners, and now they are in a position to put those very basic, generally expected corners back.

Well there are apparently 2 very different stories then...

The game was originally planned to release Dec 2016.
Its now Aug 2018.
Per the post above it's another 18-24 months to "soft launch"
That puts us 4 years behind schedule.

The earlier poster said it was because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted"

Those are a LOT of corners being uncut to take an extra 4 years... Heck. That's a lot of corners being uncut just to get us to this point which is pretty much double the development timeline.

Again, personally, I am OK with it as I'd like this to be a complete and FUN game. But to be fair to people that put money in, they should really offer refunds because not everyone asked them to uncut the corners and spend an additional 4 years on the project...

I don't think there's a single MMO, crowdfunded or otherwise, that has met its initially projected launch date. December 2016 was probably never realistic, but there were a lot of things that pushed the date back.

Combat went through several iterations. Go back and look at the Hunger Dome videos and compare that combat to what we have now. It's completely different.

The original design included archetypes and they created at least half of them before they made the decision to split them into race and class. That decision was based on a couple things. First, they had the money to do it, which they weren't sure about prior to the KS. Second, if they didn't do it in pre-alpha, they wouldn't be able to do it after go live. I don't think there's a single person, whether they have followed this game or not, who would prefer having archetypes to race/class combinations in an MMO.

These are the two biggest reasons why the date has been pushed back as far as it has. That said, they have only been working on the game for 3 1/2 years. The KS ended in March of 2015. So while they missed their original date by quite a bit, the total development time is still on par with other MMOs.

You can choose to be upset about the delays, but it really should be expected at this point. It happens with every game. Me? I'll enjoy playing the game as is, looking forward to new content and helping to make the game better. I'm really not in a rush to have the game go live.

Kajidourden · August 2018

IsilithTehroth said:

I really hope they give reason for a particular clan to live out of an outpost and defend it, instead of following a giant zerg like in planetside 2.

I /believe/ there are anti-zerg mechanics like uncapped AoEs and such.

Slapshot1188 · August 2018

Arkade99 said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Aeander said:

Slapshot1188 said:

genaknosc said:

They aren't "milking" anybody. They aren't running monthly promo sales like CoE of Star Citizen. Want to buy some cosmetic castles for your personal server? Cool, go ahead. Otherwise, there really isn't much to "buy" except more alt account access, and there isn't any push by the Devs to have people do that.

The vast majority of their funding is and has come from investment and licensing.

I know it is popular to compare this with games like Star Citizen but it is so different and nothing at all alike.

Taking forever for this game to come out?

They expanded scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted.

Sorry, what should we tell them - "hey I see you are going to make a better game than you were originally because now you have more funding. Please stop. I would prefer you make a shittier game that will release earlier so I can complain sooner and quit playing on my original target quitting date. Making a better game doesn't help any of us who would rather just shitpost and don't actually play the game."

I have an Amber KS package and some unusable number of castles, keeps and forts. I have no problem personally with them having delayed the game because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted".

That said, any game that delays it's release by YEARS should offer refunds to those that do not want to wait. That's not shitposting. That's simply fair. I do not know if CF still offers refunds, but if not, they should.

The simple principle is that if a company decides on its own to change the scope/technology/whatever in a game knowing it will cause years of delays, that the customer should have an opt out. That also shuts down all criticism about the delays because there is nothing to complain about if you can get your money back. This is what CU has done and it's a major reason they do not catch a lot of flack (in comparison to their peers) for the delays.

This isn't about legality. It's just about doing what is right. This is true for games I like (such as Crowfall) and also games I don't.

If Crowfall had expanded its scope in a grandiose, unrealistic way, as Star Citizen did, then I would agree with you. However, the scope changes in Crowfall have essentially amounted to just uncutting corners that were initially meant to be cut (like race & gender locked classes, which they had called archetypes to justify the mediocrity of it all). The situation with Crowfall was that the initial pitch offered the core of a game with many cut corners, and now they are in a position to put those very basic, generally expected corners back.

Well there are apparently 2 very different stories then...

The game was originally planned to release Dec 2016.
Its now Aug 2018.
Per the post above it's another 18-24 months to "soft launch"
That puts us 4 years behind schedule.

The earlier poster said it was because "They expanded the scope so as to make a better game because they unexpectedly came into more investment funding than they predicted"

Those are a LOT of corners being uncut to take an extra 4 years... Heck. That's a lot of corners being uncut just to get us to this point which is pretty much double the development timeline.

Again, personally, I am OK with it as I'd like this to be a complete and FUN game. But to be fair to people that put money in, they should really offer refunds because not everyone asked them to uncut the corners and spend an additional 4 years on the project...

I don't think there's a single MMO, crowdfunded or otherwise, that has met its initially projected launch date. December 2016 was probably never realistic, but there were a lot of things that pushed the date back.

Combat went through several iterations. Go back and look at the Hunger Dome videos and compare that combat to what we have now. It's completely different.

The original design included archetypes and they created at least half of them before they made the decision to split them into race and class. That decision was based on a couple things. First, they had the money to do it, which they weren't sure about prior to the KS. Second, if they didn't do it in pre-alpha, they wouldn't be able to do it after go live. I don't think there's a single person, whether they have followed this game or not, who would prefer having archetypes to race/class combinations in an MMO.

These are the two biggest reasons why the date has been pushed back as far as it has. That said, they have only been working on the game for 3 1/2 years. The KS ended in March of 2015. So while they missed their original date by quite a bit, the total development time is still on par with other MMOs.

You can choose to be upset about the delays, but it really should be expected at this point. It happens with every game. Me? I'll enjoy playing the game as is, looking forward to new content and helping to make the game better. I'm really not in a rush to have the game go live.

There is much truth in what you said, but to me, the issue is when people like the poster above who called folks who aren't happy with the delays "shitposters". As I stated, I am fine waiting for the game. As an original backer I have seen it for years. I was there for the Hunger Dome. I don't need a video. I know it wasn't ready for the masses in 2016... or 2017.. or even today. That doesn't change the fact that not everyone asked them to "uncut the corners" and IMHO it's fundamentally unfair for a company to double or triple it's ETA, literally adding YEARS to it while they add scope to the game because they have more money without at least giving people the ability to opt out.

People who complain about the delays have an absolutely legitimate gripe and folks who cavalierly dismiss those or worse (like the "shitposters" guy) are simply not being fair. So while I'm going to get a better game out of it (and so will you and other backers) it's just not fair to the guy who only wanted what they originally promised. I can't blame people for complaining about massive delays to add features.

Slapshot1188 · August 2018

Kajidourden said:

IsilithTehroth said:

I really hope they give reason for a particular clan to live out of an outpost and defend it, instead of following a giant zerg like in planetside 2.

I /believe/ there are anti-zerg mechanics like uncapped AoEs and such.

I haven’t followed closely but I thought they were actually capped. I hope not. AoEing a mob is always fun.

Howdy, Stranger!

Crowfall - Milestone 5.7 Means the World to Crowfall - MMORPG.com

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Crowfall - Milestone 5.7 Means the World to Crowfall - MMORPG.com

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV