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CD Projekt Red Has No Intention of to be 'Shy' About Politics - Cyberpunk 2077 - MMORPG.com

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,642

    Sovrath said:


    Waldoe said:



    SBFord said:





    tomek2626 said:



    so it means we dont get force freiend whit gey or lesbo quests so game be political corect








    Because those things don't happen in real life or aren't part of the world's culture. Gotcha. *facepalms*






    No, it's not that those things are not part of the world culture, or important, at all. However, the number of people that fall into that lifestyle is a very small percentage worldwide yet the number of characters in TV, movies, video games, books etc. is moderately high, at least recently in the mainstream media, and not proportional to the actual number of people that identify that way worldwide.



    So when this concern is brought to light in a fashion unlike this original comment. I think it is worth consideration from that perspective.


    so if a studio, author, developer etc wants to create property with a town filled with Lesbian accountants or a south eastern city solely populated by East Asian bobsled enthusiasts then that's the population of that property and hopefully it works based on what the creators are trying to do.







    But if GLAAD calls on Hollywood to have 20 percent of annual film releases include a gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender or gender fluid character by 2021, rising to 50 percent of output by 2024, it is politics. It is an agenda. It is a form of propaganda.



    And Hollywood, or anyone making movies can do that "or not."

    Just like you can go to those movies "or not."

    If hollywood decided it was "good business" to include as many alternate lifestyles as they can find then that's their "business."

    And that is exactly what it is, a business.

    And they will do what is right for their business. Either purchase their work "or not."

    To me, if the work is good I don't care if it's 100% homosexual or transgender or whatever. If the work is bad then no ratio of any group is going to save it.

    I judge a work on it's success not because it represents "me." Though I do have to have some interest.

    There are plenty of things I don't buy because I'm not interested. And my stance is either buy it or don't. Many people want to see stories that include people like themselves. If it's worth it to the creators/studios, etc then they'll do it. If it's not then they won't.
    SBFordTorvalMadFrenchiePanther2103



  • WaldoeWaldoe Member UncommonPosts: 642

    Sovrath said:


    Waldoe said:



    SBFord said:





    tomek2626 said:



    so it means we dont get force freiend whit gey or lesbo quests so game be political corect








    Because those things don't happen in real life or aren't part of the world's culture. Gotcha. *facepalms*






    No, it's not that those things are not part of the world culture, or important, at all. However, the number of people that fall into that lifestyle is a very small percentage worldwide yet the number of characters in TV, movies, video games, books etc. is moderately high, at least recently in the mainstream media, and not proportional to the actual number of people that identify that way worldwide.



    So when this concern is brought to light in a fashion unlike this original comment. I think it is worth consideration from that perspective.


    Except that the stories/settings for characters in TV, movies, Video Games, books, etc aren't real life but snapshots focusing on what the creator wants to say/show.

    No writer writes a book yet doesn't include certain characters because they are a small percentage of the population.

    Whatever the property, the characters included are meant to be there and are meant to support the "world building" of that property.

    They are pieces of whatever creation the creator wants to create. They aren't supposed to represent an exact copy of our real world.

    edit: so if a studio, author, developer etc wants to create property with a town filled with Lesbian accountants or a south eastern city solely populated by East Asian bobsled enthusiasts then that's the population of that property and hopefully it works based on what the creators are trying to do.







    SBFord was making the point that LGBT community should have a place in games because they are part of real life throughout the world, which is absolutely true. So I made the point that the representation of the approximate percent of people in the world that identify with a particular lifestyle is not proportionally represented in a lot of the mainstream entertainment these days which is why I addressed the comment in the same terms.

    Sovrath, if you want to change the perspective we are looking at this from that is fine. I agree with what you are saying. However, one would be naive to think there is not pressure (whether it is from the money source or fear of backlash or something else) to include certain types of characters. Creators have freedom but unless they are self-funding something, others are going to have a say in what ultimately makes the page or screen etc.
    Sovrathperrin82
  • DkuangDkuang Member UncommonPosts: 37
    edited July 2018
    LGBT, straight white male, whatever the context of the story so long as it makes sense in the world in which it exists. It's like those fuckwits that got mad about Kingdom Come not having people of color. Please get over yourselves. Might as well be pissed off that Romance of the Three Kingdom games don't have white people or that Luke Cage on Netflix had a cast that was 90% black.

    Whatever CDPR does with Cyberpunk, if it tells the story of it's world in a believable manner in the context of their universe? I'll enjoy it, with or without gays, bisexuals, transgenders, android/robo fuckers, hermaphrodites, alien unisexuals, or whatever else that would fit into their world.

    And yes, there currently is an agenda pushed by Hollywood and the SJW movement to force sensitivity and inclusion down everyone's throats, in perhaps a way to make amends for the decades that they only focused on white males? I see the flawed logic behind it, but yet I just want more stories told that are more inclusive, but not in a forced way.

    Like Marvel making Iceman bisexual/gay out of left field which was totally off from what he was originally. Or even making Lando Clarissian a pansexual in the Han Solo movie. It's shit moves like that that pisses me off. Go and make new stories with more inclusive characters, don't change shit up just for the hell of inclusiveness.

    Again, it's about the money. If inclusiveness works, they'll keep at it, if it doesn't..it'll be dropped like anything else in a marketing/business plan. *shrug* Ah well, shit happens.

    SBFordScotXodicinfomatzThaharGorwe

    You reap what you sow.

  • Lambon23Lambon23 Member UncommonPosts: 66
    soooo if the company doesn't want sexuality and prefers homogeneity, can they be given the same respect??? can we please just give the freedom of expression back to the artists?
  • wowhuntardwowhuntard Member UncommonPosts: 14

    SBFord said:



    Sovrath said:

    Waldoe said:

    SBFord said:
    tomek2626 said:


    so it means we dont get force freiend whit gey or lesbo quests so game be political corect

    Because those things don't happen in real life or aren't part of the world's culture. Gotcha. *facepalms*

    No, it's not that those things are not part of the world culture, or important, at all. However, the number of people that fall into that lifestyle is a very small percentage worldwide yet the number of characters in TV, movies, video games, books etc. is moderately high, at least recently in the mainstream media, and not proportional to the actual number of people that identify that way worldwide.




    So when this concern is brought to light in a fashion unlike this original comment. I think it is worth consideration from that perspective.


    so if a studio, author, developer etc wants to create property with a town filled with Lesbian accountants or a south eastern city solely populated by East Asian bobsled enthusiasts then that's the population of that property and hopefully it works based on what the creators are trying to do.

    But if GLAAD calls on Hollywood to have 20 percent of annual film releases include a gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender or gender fluid character by 2021, rising to 50 percent of output by 2024, it is politics. It is an agenda. It is a form of propaganda.


    GLAAD calling on something doesn't mean it will happen. If it fits the IP contextually and if the people who are making the game or film want their game or film that way, then that is their choice, just as it is the choice of people NOT to purchase a game or film if they disagree with its direction.

    Additionally, why is having characters of all stripes, whatever those stripes are, a bad thing? It was a powerfully emotional day the first time I saw "someone like me" in a game and when I read my first novel that was close to my worldviewview. I don't push an agenda on anyone, but it's an amazing experience for people to be able to identify.

    There's a reason Black Panther resonated so strongly with African Americans and other people of color around the world.



    Suzie, I am blessed to live in one of the most ethnically diverse countries in Europe. I have absolutely no problem with people of all stripes, on the contrary. But I have a problem when someone tries to aggressively influence my opinion (about anything) in a way that resembles overwhelming propaganda campaign and uses all spheres of today's media resources - TV shows, magazines, newspapers, social networks, movies, computer games. My wife's best friend is a lesbian. She is an awesome human being, talented architect, great cook :)... and she fully understands my point of view in this case.

    As for Black Panther, I think that although it resonated so strongly with African Americans, here in Europe people have a little bit different opinion about it, especially having in mind horrors of colonial influence on African continent that is still very apparent and motives of Hollywood money-grabbers and influencers to release such a movie in this moment.

    I apologize for my bad English, not a native speaker here apparently :)
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    Pretty much meaningless lip service until we see exactly what context this will have in the game world. Since the cyberpunk genre was born out of the crass materialism and social upheaval of the late 70s and early 80s, of course the game, just like the genre, should have political influence. The problem there though is if they just myopically focus on today's social issues and badly miss the opportunity of the setting to make up new, and possibly worse, social scenarios, its all going to be a pointless and pretentious waste of everyone's time.

    "You have kept me at your beck and call for fifteen years. I shall never again do what you demand of me. By every rule of single combat, from this moment your life belongs to me. Is that not correct? Then I shall simply declare you dead. In all of your dealings with me, you'll do me the courtesy to conduct yourself as a dead man. I have submitted to your notions of honor long enough. You will now submit to mine."

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    edited July 2018

    Sovrath said:





    Sovrath said:




    Waldoe said:





    SBFord said:







    tomek2626 said:




    so it means we dont get force freiend whit gey or lesbo quests so game be political corect











    Because those things don't happen in real life or aren't part of the world's culture. Gotcha. *facepalms*









    No, it's not that those things are not part of the world culture, or important, at all. However, the number of people that fall into that lifestyle is a very small percentage worldwide yet the number of characters in TV, movies, video games, books etc. is moderately high, at least recently in the mainstream media, and not proportional to the actual number of people that identify that way worldwide.





    So when this concern is brought to light in a fashion unlike this original comment. I think it is worth consideration from that perspective.




    so if a studio, author, developer etc wants to create property with a town filled with Lesbian accountants or a south eastern city solely populated by East Asian bobsled enthusiasts then that's the population of that property and hopefully it works based on what the creators are trying to do.










    But if GLAAD calls on Hollywood to have 20 percent of annual film releases include a gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender or gender fluid character by 2021, rising to 50 percent of output by 2024, it is politics. It is an agenda. It is a form of propaganda.









    And Hollywood, or anyone making movies can do that "or not."

    Just like you can go to those movies "or not."

    If hollywood decided it was "good business" to include as many alternate lifestyles as they can find then that's their "business."

    And that is exactly what it is, a business.

    And they will do what is right for their business. Either purchase their work "or not."

    To me, if the work is good I don't care if it's 100% homosexual or transgender or whatever. If the work is bad then no ratio of any group is going to save it.

    I judge a work on it's success not because it represents "me." Though I do have to have some interest.

    There are plenty of things I don't buy because I'm not interested. And my stance is either buy it or don't. Many people want to see stories that include people like themselves. If it's worth it to the creators/studios, etc then they'll do it. If it's not then they won't.



    But it isn't business. The SWJ agenda injected products are largely losing money, a vast quantity of money ... yet their agenda is still being pushed.

    The heads of the worst infected of the industries and IPs flat out tell their customers that if they don't like it, they can leave. These sort of comments have been quoted over and over again. They attack their fans and through labels at anyone who doesn't agree with them.

    This is not business. This is agenda based politics and a reflection of the times. They are perfectly willing to bleed profits, appropriate and destroy IPs and remove choice in the name of "diversity" (the irony is thick) all in order to protect their influence over what they infiltrated. These are groups running companies for profit that hate the very concept of making profit because they are anti-capitalism. Try wrapping that around your head ... it hurts.

    If losing money on projects was what drove changes in business models then all of this would have died out over 8 years ago. This has nothing to do with business however.

    "Get WOKE ... Go broke"

    I'm not American. I don't give a rats ass about American politics. I just want good entertainment products, and minus a very few, we are seeing a direct decline in true social variety, quality and even straight out appropriation of long standing IPs. I can't ignore this. Lord knows what this article really means about this IP in particular and the true nature of the statement is what worries me. I agree it's always been political in nature but it's NEVER BEEN A CONTEMPORARY, VIRTUE SIGNALLING, IDENTITY AGENDA driven sci-fi but rather a more old school projection of society as a whole.

    I played the RPG with friends for years when younger and I can assure you there was not a class in it called "Gay, Minority, Victim Card Carrying Social Media Crusader". Race, gender, sexual preference and political choices were up to the player and not forced upon them through presentation.

    I hope this game remains true to its origin and that is what the developer means with this statement but recent history across several entertainment fronts proves there is room to worry.
    wowhuntard

    You stay sassy!

  • SephrusSephrus Member UncommonPosts: 76
    I just hope the game has a BOOB slider
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    Sephrus said:
    I just hope the game has a BOOB slider
    Stop trying to stir the shit pot and post on your real account, not fooling anyone
    Scotinfomatz
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • UtinniUtinni Member RarePosts: 1,361
    If you go into a game looking with the attitude of "where the gays at UGH" or "this shit better not point out any flaws in my economic philosphy!" then you will probably find it. Perhaps try playing games for the games, not for how they relate to your own personal beliefs. I'm a pretty wholesome person in real life but it doesn't mean I scoff every time a game gives me the evil option. 
    TorvalMadFrenchieLackingMMOScotSBFordinfomatzThahar
  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 455
    Utinni said:
    If you go into a game looking with the attitude of "where the gays at UGH" or "this shit better not point out any flaws in my economic philosphy!" then you will probably find it. Perhaps try playing games for the games, not for how they relate to your own personal beliefs. I'm a pretty wholesome person in real life but it doesn't mean I scoff every time a game gives me the evil option. 
    But on the other note you shouldn't be going in there going "oh this game better have gays!"

    Im so sick of real world politics in games its annoying, this is an rpg, if having something like that in it FITS the story, great! If your trying to put something in it to push your own personal/political agenda, just don't. And that goes for both sides of the view, just stick to good story telling and the rest will fall into place.

    However, in this setting I think people are going to be in for a rude awakening lol. Cyberpunk has always given a the gloves are off, anything goes type of feel to it.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,397
    thunderC said:
    Sephrus said:
    I just hope the game has a BOOB slider
    Stop trying to stir the shit pot and post on your real account, not fooling anyone
    I already did a Welcome to the boards for this guy, he is fitting right in. :)

     25 Agrees

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  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,499
    edited July 2018
    I don't think it matters what proportion of  a population a game represents because it is like books and art. It depends on who is making the game. If they want to include a small population of people or minuscule issues that is their choice. Yours is not to buy or play or buy and play.
    image
  • ElidienElidien Member RarePosts: 1,397
    The 3.8% most people are quoting was a survey done in the US. It is not worldwide. Getting the number of LBGTQ persons worldwide is difficult to impossible.

    It is estimated the number is much higher because most often the data is gathered through official government surveys or questionnaires. Why is this an issue? Because in approximately 70 countries (2017) one cannot identify as LBGTQ due to penalty of law or even death.

    So 3.8% (even if you apply it to the world and not the US) refers to persons open and "come out" and in no way reflects those who are not "out" officially.

    Further, and for sake of argument, let's apply 3.8% to the worlds population of 7.6 billion. That is 288 million persons. Let's round that down to 275 million just for argument's sake. Regardless, that would be the 4th most populous country in the world (after China, India and the US) and larger than the top four European countries combined. And 50 million shy of the US.

    So while the percentage of 3.8% seems small, it is significant and matters. It is not trivial at all.
    MadFrenchieSBFord
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,397
    KingNaid said:
    MaxBacon said:

    Now on games like Kingdom Come Deliverance where some people got salty as there are only white people, that's just historically accurate.
    https://www.mfa.org/collections/object/tapestry-wild-men-and-moors-106003

    German 1440


    coat of arms of pope benedict xvi



    Welcome to the boards. History for a first post!

    That game was set in Bohemia, I could understand if it was set in what is now Spain, Turkey or  Italy, but Bohemia? Anyway not played it yet still on my wish list. :)
    KingNaid

     25 Agrees

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited July 2018
    I could see the same argument about population percentages being made 80 years ago, except about <insert minority group that keeps popping up in our games/TV/other media>.
    SovrathArglebargle

    image
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Being gay/lesbian etc isn't a big deal. I dunno why people in real life make such a big deal out of it, I support it.

    For one, its none of my business what someone else does unless it falls into the line of harming someone (like many people support pedophilia these days and pedophilia jokes, which I am fully against the harm or even joking about the harm of children). But two grown adults? Don't care what they do, as it doesn't effect me in the slightest. Too many people trying to interfere with other peoples lives. Don't care if someone drinks so much its killing themselves, or smokes so much they got cancer or whatever they do with their life, none of my business.

    Second. I actually think gay/lesbian is earth's way of actual population control. Humans are far too many on Earth and keep growing at a far too fast rate...and as seen by many species that were overpopulated on earth, there is always hidden "mechanics" that knock that species population greatly down or slow the population growth. Either through natural disasters, or disease, or in humans cases, gay/lesbian or all kinds of things that nature does to try to curb overpopulation. 

    Third. Gays and lesbians are far more likely to adopt than "straight" people, +1 to that

    Fourth. You got the wackos that say they are going to hell. That means all the romans and people of ancient times are also going to hell. Sounds like the place to go then! Count me in! I don't want to go somewhere where a bunch of prudish and uptight people go that get into everyones business lol. 

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • KingNaidKingNaid Member UncommonPosts: 624
    edited July 2018
    Scot said:
    KingNaid said:
    MaxBacon said:

    Now on games like Kingdom Come Deliverance where some people got salty as there are only white people, that's just historically accurate.
    https://www.mfa.org/collections/object/tapestry-wild-men-and-moors-106003

    German 1440


    coat of arms of pope benedict xvi



    Welcome to the boards. History for a first post!

    That game was set in Bohemia, I could understand if it was set in what is now Spain, Turkey or  Italy, but Bohemia? Anyway not played it yet still on my wish list. :)
    Okay
    Related image


    Post edited by KingNaid on
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    If you liked Skyrim you'll probably enjoy KC:D.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,642
    Waldoe said:

    Sovrath said:


    Waldoe said:



    SBFord said:





    tomek2626 said:



    so it means we dont get force freiend whit gey or lesbo quests so game be political corect








    Because those things don't happen in real life or aren't part of the world's culture. Gotcha. *facepalms*






    No, it's not that those things are not part of the world culture, or important, at all. However, the number of people that fall into that lifestyle is a very small percentage worldwide yet the number of characters in TV, movies, video games, books etc. is moderately high, at least recently in the mainstream media, and not proportional to the actual number of people that identify that way worldwide.



    So when this concern is brought to light in a fashion unlike this original comment. I think it is worth consideration from that perspective.


    Except that the stories/settings for characters in TV, movies, Video Games, books, etc aren't real life but snapshots focusing on what the creator wants to say/show.

    No writer writes a book yet doesn't include certain characters because they are a small percentage of the population.

    Whatever the property, the characters included are meant to be there and are meant to support the "world building" of that property.

    They are pieces of whatever creation the creator wants to create. They aren't supposed to represent an exact copy of our real world.

    edit: so if a studio, author, developer etc wants to create property with a town filled with Lesbian accountants or a south eastern city solely populated by East Asian bobsled enthusiasts then that's the population of that property and hopefully it works based on what the creators are trying to do.







    SBFord was making the point that LGBT community should have a place in games because they are part of real life throughout the world, which is absolutely true. So I made the point that the representation of the approximate percent of people in the world that identify with a particular lifestyle is not proportionally represented in a lot of the mainstream entertainment these days which is why I addressed the comment in the same terms.

    Sovrath, if you want to change the perspective we are looking at this from that is fine. I agree with what you are saying. However, one would be naive to think there is not pressure (whether it is from the money source or fear of backlash or something else) to include certain types of characters. Creators have freedom but unless they are self-funding something, others are going to have a say in what ultimately makes the page or screen etc.
    I agree there is "pressure" to include people with different lifestyles but that doesn't mean that it will happen. And I also agree that "others will have a say."

    That's why I added that it's a business and if a studio/publiser, etc thinks it's good business they'll add more characters with different lifestyles, races, etc.

    And if they don't then they won't. I still think it's refreshing to see different people, different lifestyles on screen as it adds more realism and diversity to movies. Same with games. It feels more real.

    Then again, I live in a city with people from many walks of life (not saying they all get together in perfect harmony!) and it's not unusual to see greater diversity in various parts of the city.


    SBFord



  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    People don't want to play ordinary (usually).

    And ordinary people are not usually interesting, unless the authors/directors put them into extraordinary situations.

    Generally speaking however, the most interesting characters are the flawed ones.

    Specific to Cyberpunk, it'll be interesting to explore a situation that all of us will not experience, the loss of humanity while turning more and more into a machine.
    SBFord
  • CIB3CIB3 Member UncommonPosts: 120
    edited July 2018
    For me it's easy, I don't buy, watch or support anything with "gay". Because it's disgusting for me. If I go to cinema and the movie have LGBT characters depicted in a positive way in it I go out and ask for a refund. I don't pay for their agenda.
    MisterZebubinfomatz
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,642
    edited July 2018
    Tamanous said:



    But it isn't business.
    To Clarify: if a business thinks that "it's a good thing" whether it makes money or not then they will do it. Part of being "good business" is also PR.

    And you'd have to prove to me that anything and everything with people of other lifestyles loses money because it offers glimpses of alternate lifestyles

    Rent did very well, Hedwig did very well, Will & Grace did very well.

    Moonlight did very well given it's budget. Made it's money back many times over.

    If a property is good it will do well. Might not be for everyone but that's ok.

    more: La cage aux folles, The Bird Cage, Milk.

    Edit: as far as "pushing an agenda", people want to see themselves represented and I think that's very fair.

    If they want to continue to clamor for more representation then more power to them. If people don't want to see content with more representation then you don't have to. It doesn't matter if 50 movies come out representing people with other lifestyles, it doesn't take anything away from you as there will be 50 movies that don't represent people with other lifestyles.


    MadFrenchie



  • XodicXodic Member EpicPosts: 1,047
    There's a difference between injecting a specific political agenda, and using political views to captivate the players. It's never the black and white of an issue, but the gray areas in between that can offer a heuristic approach to story telling.As long as they can spark thought instead presenting an echo chamber.
    SovrathSBFordMisterZebubScot
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 971
    On steam there is an early access game called Almost Alive. It has a lot of perks and traits. The one called capitalist makes you stupider by taking it. The one called communist makes you smarter by taking it. He is selling this on steam, to get enough money to make the game. The irony would be amazing if it wasn't so common.

    There is only one political narrative that games can embrace and espouse - and the people defending it agree with the narrative. Its no different than Hollywood. No one in entertainment has the courage to try and be objective and rational. Why? Because one side will literally destroy you for the attempt. Look at what happened recently with Mark Duplass.

    I am a colored person that is a reformed Democrat and now belong to neither side of the ideological debate. I just know I play games to relax and recharge my batteries - not be indoctrinated with nonsense from small minded sycophants. I like fantasy and sci-fi settings to escape from this world, not have the hot button political issues repackaged and regurgitated to me in a different setting from the same hive-mind of hyper-partisan ideologues.

    But, for full disclosure I should admit I like my games to be great games and not try and be slightly interactive movies so I am not the target market of CD Project Red or other devs that try and mark art instead of games, or tell stories instead of making rpgs.
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