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Builder/Spender Core Mechanic - Pantheon Class Design

EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,220
It's exciting to see the class reveals for the Healers, Melee DPS and Tanks. One trend I have noticed is that there is a builder and spender core mechanic that is universally allotted to all classes in some capacity. 

A Builder/Spender Core Mechanic is were you have a resource of some kind to build up towards to unlock gated abilities or to dump resources at the start to certain abilities then to just build it back up again. I am not considering mana/stamina used, as if that is already a given for a resource for classes. (I know there will be different colors of mana as well to be used)

This has been a popular design choice for Blizzard in most of their class design, specifically their melee classes. And, it seems as if this choice for core mechanics will be distributed among all classes in Pantheon. I would assume, since the Caster DPS classes have yet to be revealed. 

What I am expressing is that it seems there are different approaches to this Builder/Spender core mechanic for each class. The Monk's Chakra's and opening different gates come to mind. 

This discussion is about a few things...

1. Do you as a player like a Builder/Spender of Resources for a core mechanic?

2. Should a Builder/Spender core mechanic be universally distributed to all classes?

3. Why do you think Pantheon's class design is going towards this route of design? 


Comments

  • EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,220
    edited July 2018
    I am going to answer my own questions here...

    1. Yes, I think a Builder/Spender should be a core mechanic, and it can be fun depending on the thematic lore component of the class. 

    2. No. I think a Builder/Spender mechanic should be for certain classes, but not all. I think there are other avenues a designer can explore to achieve different thematic and immersive play styles for a class.

    3. I honestly, believe that Pantheon is taking this approach for 2 reasons. A: It's easier to develop and potentially balance. B: Most mmo players now, have and/or will come from WoW. So this type of gameplay will be familiar with most players.
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,801
    I don't mind these types of mechanics personally.  The build/spend cycle does tend to be prone to repetitive combat patterns.  These can become tedious.  Since I haven't had hands-on with whatever Pantheon is doing, I'll wait and see.

    One thing that annoys me, though, is giving the same mechanic a different name for each class.  If I see this named 'Chakra' for one class, I'd expect all classes to call it 'Chakra'.  There's no need for a dozen names for Hit Points.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • XarkoXarko Member EpicPosts: 1,168
    Anything to break the fireball spam. 
  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,367
    One of the reasons i didn't like TSW was builder/spender mechanic on every single class. In WoW only rogues and druids had such a mechanic and those were also the classes i never bothered to level up.

    I rather farm for +spell dmg gear and spam fireball ad nauseam than repeat the monotonous cycle over and over again.
  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 3,025
    build/spender vs CDs , the resource is the "cd" but at least u can decide when to use it , instead of using it on CD . imo there should be classes that dont use this system and instead use a combo system, for example , A+B = aoe fire A+C= stun , B+D = massive dot , something like that
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,090
    Reminds me to some extent of the Runemaster in LotRO.
    Crichton: 'If he masters wormhole technology, what will he use it for?'
    Scorpius: 'Faster delivery of pizzas.'

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,141
    Any time something has to happen before an ability can be used, be it builder/spender, time delay, or whatever, I find that leads to me staring at the bottom of my UI checking to see what's available.

    And then, instead of taking in the game as a whole, I am just watching a progress bar. Maybe that can't be avoided. If I had an idea of my own I would share it.

    But I see little difference, challenge-wise, between Fireball Fireball Fireball Fireball and Builder Builder Builder Fireball. Other than that one forces your eyes to monitor a progress bar and one does not.

    I'm not arguing in favor of spam. I am just wishing there was a way I could better watch and participate in the fight as a whole on my screen, and not just some little buttons. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,220
    The Builder Spender Mechanic I am discussing here is a mechanic that is thematically meant for your class. The function of it may be similar, but you would have a different specific class based resource to build or spend. I am not considering, mana/stamina or CDs. Those should be in the general scope and not considered in a core mechanic. 

    I have been designing classes for quite sometime. So far, only 1 class is using a specific class base builder/spender mechanic. 

    There are different, unique and immersive ways to achieve core mechanics for class design. The issue is, development and development resources to get it done. 
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,019
    Eh, I'm not excited about it.  This type of system gets boiled down to "How do I build up points the fastest in order to spam by big damage skill as often as possible?"

    And everything is built around that one idea, ZZZzzzzz
    Eronakis
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,141
    Eronakis said:
    The Builder Spender Mechanic I am discussing here is a mechanic that is thematically meant for your class. The function of it may be similar, but you would have a different specific class based resource to build or spend. I am not considering, mana/stamina or CDs. Those should be in the general scope and not considered in a core mechanic. 

    I have been designing classes for quite sometime. So far, only 1 class is using a specific class base builder/spender mechanic. 

    There are different, unique and immersive ways to achieve core mechanics for class design. The issue is, development and development resources to get it done. 
    Not meaning to be quarrelsome, but I'm not seeing it.

    Warrior has to press BIFF and POW before he can use KABOOM!

    Druid has to press WIND and RAIN before she can press STORM!

    ROGUE has to press CUT and STAB before he can press CUT THROAT!

    And so on. I'm sure the exact effects and their animations are different, and that's nice, but the core paradigm is unchanged.
    Mendel

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

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