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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 745
    edited July 2018
    #ArenanetDidNothingWrong





    Bill it is your opinion and you are entitled to it, But I think you are 100% wrong.
    forcelimaWylfWarhawke80CaffynatedThahar
  • JakeSimJakeSim Member RarePosts: 873
    edited July 2018
    I lol'd at this.

    This person is unbelievable;

    "The whole thing was highly unprofessional. There was zero reason for him to be there. He wanted to vent his anger, and he had the power to command a woman to stand there while he took his feelings out on her, so he did. Then he walked out, [the manager] got my stuff from my desk and the HR person asked for my key card."

    Why does she keep it going?  "he had the power to command a woman" This is exactly why she got fired. It had nothing to do with her being a woman. Such an oblivious fool.

    The other guy got fired too. She literally lives in her head and thinks every man is misogynistic. It's insane.

    Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-07-10-fired-guild-wars-2-writer-was-given-no-warning
    celtwulflaxieLeiloniforcelimaYashaXblamo2000Thahar
    Please come check out my stream. All the love is appreciated! 

    TWITCH: @JakeSimTV
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    For anyone wondering, Game Journalist, need to stay on the good side with developers and be their cheering section if they expect to get any personal relations with them. 

    See, just like all the gamers are crying about how Price was mean the client, keep in mind that a Games Journalist, looking for insider info, the Developers are their client as well as the gaming public, and what did we all just learn from this fiasco kids?

    That's right.. do not speak ill of your clients..


  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    MadFrenchieEponyxDamorzakiyawowvandal5627
  • ScellowScellow Member RarePosts: 395
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    ZenJellyMadFrenchiejmcdermottukvandal5627Thahar
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,835
    JakeSim said:
    I lol'd at this.

    This person is unbelievable;

    "The whole thing was highly unprofessional. There was zero reason for him to be there. He wanted to vent his anger, and he had the power to command a woman to stand there while he took his feelings out on her, so he did. Then he walked out, [the manager] got my stuff from my desk and the HR person asked for my key card."

    Why does she keep it going?  "he had the power to command a woman" This is exactly why she got fired. It had nothing to do with her being a woman. Such an oblivious fool.

    The other guy got fired too. She literally lives in her head and thinks every man is misogynistic. It's insane.

    Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-07-10-fired-guild-wars-2-writer-was-given-no-warning
    Its a self fulfilling prophecy and a massive insult to real victims of gender inequality at the same time. Unfortunately with people like these their good cause has become an all consuming loop in their head that becomes a narrative plastered over any and everything. And when that happens publicly you get the massive disconnect that you are seeing right now.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    LeiloniDakeruJakeSimYashaXblamo2000
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,741
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    Aeander said:
    SBFord said:
    Xasapis said:

    You know, that is interesting that you brought up gamergate (I wasn't aware of it until years). One of the /r/guildwars2 threads I was reading there was a person questioning whether gamergate was right on its assessment regarding gaming press, considering how falsely and on a script the whole situation with guildwars2 is portrait.

    Gaming press has indeed lost considerable relevance over the years, exactly because they chose to push ideology over the facts.

    The reaction towards both your editorial pieces should be an indication on how people that are not necessarily invested in Anet feel. The same contrast is there between the reaction of Guildwars2 players and the gaming press.

    The bottom line was that the CEO of Anet had to choose between appeasing the players or the press. I think he made the right choice, but time will tell.
    I didn't write that. I simply posted quotes from the link provided in the response I made. It's an interesting side light to the overall discussion. The people who wrote that article are not games press. 

    I don't have an opinion so let's not sling shade please. It's been a very reasonable discussion and I hope it stays that way. 

    @mmrv Again - I did NOT write that, simply provided a link and two quotes from the larger piece. Keep it civil, please.
    The problem is that the article that you provided was yet another biased and poorly researched outside perspective of the situation which pushes the same incorrect narrative that these threads have attempted to push in their OP's. 

    If you had wanted an actual neutral, comprehensive, level-headed analysis of the situation, you would have linked Woodenpotatoes' 57 minute video on the topic.
    I wasn't LOOKING for a neutral, unbiased article. I posted the link to yet another piece of the puzzle that has interesting discussion opportunities within its words. I like to read all sides of any argument. That makes me informed.

    Just stop.
    Allow me to apologize for any offense given. I do not hold you in particular to be responsible for any potential bias shown or perceived here, in light of the fact that you did not actually write the MMORPG opinion pieces, or any linked opinion pieces on the topic. I respect your claim to neutrality and responsibility to read into both sides of the argument.

    However, I think it fair for me to state that MMORPG.com has the expertise, the knowledge, and the topical relevancy to balance the ongoing conversation on the subject and has failed to do so. Twice. The first thread was an inoffensive, if uninformative cliffnotes on the subject that many here interpreted as being one-sided in favor of the fired developers due to the lack of any substantial information on the actual content that ended in said firing. The second, an opinion piece, is going with the popular media narrative, again, in favor of the fired developers. I am not seeing both sides of the argument here. Frankly, if an outside reader were to only read the features and ignore the comments, they would not receive a factual view into both sides of the argument. They would receive a defense piece, which, like so many other games media articles, characterizes Mike O'Brien as a reactionary cartoon villain. Perhaps we are pending a counterpoint opinion thread that gives voice to the other side of the argument, but right now, that has not come to pass.

    It wasn't some great insult when I referenced a great, comprehensive video that covers the entire controversy in the most reasonable way possible. I do not know why that was met with negativity. Frankly, I think I should have been thanked for pointing in the direction of something that actually provides every side of the argument in a polite way, because almost every video I've seen posted by other posters here has held a flagrant far-right rhetoric that doesn't help anyone or lend any credibility to the argument being made. This video is by far the best journalism I have seen on the topic from any source, and it comes from an actual Guild Wars 2 partner with knowledge on the matter and connection to all parties involved.



    For those interested:


    SBFordIselinEponyxDamorYashaXblamo2000
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited July 2018
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    Leiloni

    image
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    A fine example of how far out of whack political correctness has gone. Just proving my point.
    EponyxDamorMadFrenchievandal5627Thahar
  • goozmaniagoozmania Member UncommonPosts: 263
    edited July 2018
    Anyone defending this horrible monster of a woman deserves the same fate she got... I'm looking at you, Kotaku and MMORPG.com
    SBFordforcelimaCaffynated
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    MadFrenchieDakeruvandal5627
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,048
    If I responded to a student I teach in a similar way, even without any media coverage, I'd be suspended at least. My contract would not be renewed and most likely, I'd be fired on the spot.

    To try force a gender narrative onto the story is comical.

    What's even more absurd to me, is gaming outlets presenting this as a situation where ANet somehow harmed a developer or set a poor precedent. If you jump off a cliff, don't blame the ground for becoming a smudge.

    We have no idea what happens at ANet internally, but from the tweets we saw, the victim case the employee was making doesn't hold water.
    EponyxDamorceltwulfforcelimaYashaXCaffynatedThahar
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,257
    edited July 2018
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    A fine example of how far out of whack political correctness has gone. Just proving my point.
    This isn't about political correctness. It's just about one person being very toxic and being subject to the obvious consequences of that. She wasn't even right in what she said.
    YashaX
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,257
    edited July 2018
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    I'm all for free speech but it only protects the government from liming your speech. Companies are well within their rights to fire you for things you've said and done because it can and does affect their bottom line.

    If you want to act like a toxic asshole on Twitter you absolutely can do that. Just make sure it's a personal account that is not publicly visible and doesn't include any work related information. Then you can say whatever you want without consequences.

    Just be glad we have free speech at all. Some of what's going on in Europe in relation to that is frightening.
    AeanderMadFrenchieEponyxDamorvandal5627
  • celtwulfceltwulf Member UncommonPosts: 61
    laxie said:
    If I responded to a student I teach in a similar way, even without any media coverage, I'd be suspended at least. My contract would not be renewed and most likely, I'd be fired on the spot.

    To try force a gender narrative onto the story is comical.

    What's even more absurd to me, is gaming outlets presenting this as a situation where ANet somehow harmed a developer or set a poor precedent. If you jump off a cliff, don't blame the ground for becoming a smudge.

    We have no idea what happens at ANet internally, but from the tweets we saw, the victim case the employee was making doesn't hold water.
    Exactly. Places like Kotaku, Polygon, & even here think they are being progressive when what they are is regressive. They see this poor woman "being attacked" & try to white knight. This is EXACTLY like the Rosanne situation. Rosanne made a very ignorant racist remark & got fired. Well Price made a very ignorant sexist remark & got fired. Tit for tat. & yes she did make the sexist remark, actually several if you read all of her tweets. If I was ArenaNet I would just not have anything to do with MMORPG.com anymore. Trust me it will not hurt their numbers
  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 745
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 
    YashaX
  • ysquare21ysquare21 Member UncommonPosts: 25
    edited July 2018

    YashaX said:








    Temp1234 said:



    umm..there seems to be a lot of "reasons" why letting her go was unfair, somewhat implies...he isn't the type of person you can trust to do so for good reasons due to his..character?.







    I'm going to assuming you can't go into details, but then why write an article about it doing the same thing...you get what i mean. Its kinda hypercritical, maybe .. casually rude?.







    I dont see the point in this, the tweets and how she conducts herself speaks for itself, but i will say its good for views though.







    if you want to bury it then stop talking about it....take care.









    My point is that people are villain-izing Price while extolling the virtues of MO, when it's quite possible they both suck and we don't know much more than we're presented on Reddit and Twitter. :D






    but.... we have solid evidence that Price "sucks" and apart from some hearsay from other ex-employees, MO seems to be a solid player. When he starts openly abusing his customers and community on twitter then we can talk "equivalence".



    The two articles your team have written on this topic have been really disappointing, for some reason trying to sugar coat despicable behaviour and presenting a very skewed version of events. Very dishonest. Reminds me of the Charlottesville "bad people on both sides" type of deflection from reality.



    I didn't get this either. Bill basically says, we are not allowed to judge her for her bad behavior because her boss might be bad too? Uhm, what? Makes zero sense.
    laxieEponyxDamorYashaX
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,161
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    You can be fired for just about anything, representing your company in public poorly is an extremely common reason for it. So it is odd this is such a revelation for some of you, long before the internet was a thing, this was.
    MadFrenchieYashaXvandal5627
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567
    Leiloni said:
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    A fine example of how far out of whack political correctness has gone. Just proving my point.
    This isn't about political correctness. It's just about one person being very toxic and being subject to the obvious consequences of that. She wasn't even right in what she said.
    Since when has being right had anything to do with having an opinion.

    She didn't work in PR or as a community manager, she was a dev, on her private twitter. Anyone with half a brain cell should realise that anything posted was her personal opinion and nothing to do with Anet.

    I'm not excusing her behaviour or saying she was right. I'm saying she has a right to say what she wants in her own free time. However offensive, right or wrong.

    No company or employer should have the power to fire somebody who is on their own time, outside of company hours and not acting in an official capacity for that company, for anything they say or do.

    It shouldn't matter how toxic she was, she has that right, or she should if PC wasn't eroding free speech. And there shouldn't be any consequences, other than people not bothering to follow her on twitter.

    If she wants to go on some feminist rant and tell everyone to eat shit and die for being misogynist douchebags for no reason, she should have that right. Sarkeesian's made a career out of that. And no, she shouldn't get fired for it. It shouldn't reflect on Anet at all. It's her personal twitter account. This is common sense, it's not hard to grasp.

    The fact that Anet felt they needed to act, that someone said a court would find this grounds for termination, just proves how far PC has gone beyond reason.

    If we keep going the way we are then pretty soon it will be "A brave new world".
    YashaXvandal5627
  • marksteelemarksteele Member UncommonPosts: 59
    I actually disagree that this had a negative impact on the company. It had a negative impact in the PRESS and from the feminist movement, but from what I see the vast majority of their fan base and potential fan base have been fully supportive of the move. Call it what you like but if anet hadn't fired her I feel the backlash from their playerbase would be far worse than the backlack from the press. 

    I also believe that there is absolutely something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about here. Yes her comments were entirely uncalled for and attacked a anet affiliate who brought in a significant amount of spotlight and attention, but a public apology would have probably sufficed. I strongly suspect that the offer was public apology or you're fired and she didn't want to give said apology. 
    Leiloni
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Leiloni said:
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    A fine example of how far out of whack political correctness has gone. Just proving my point.
    This isn't about political correctness. It's just about one person being very toxic and being subject to the obvious consequences of that. She wasn't even right in what she said.
    Since when has being right had anything to do with having an opinion.

    She didn't work in PR or as a community manager, she was a dev, on her private twitter. Anyone with half a brain cell should realise that anything posted was her personal opinion and nothing to do with Anet.

    I'm not excusing her behaviour or saying she was right. I'm saying she has a right to say what she wants in her own free time. However offensive, right or wrong.

    No company or employer should have the power to fire somebody who is on their own time, outside of company hours and not acting in an official capacity for that company, for anything they say or do.

    It shouldn't matter how toxic she was, she has that right, or she should if PC wasn't eroding free speech. And there shouldn't be any consequences, other than people not bothering to follow her on twitter.

    If she wants to go on some feminist rant and tell everyone to eat shit and die for being misogynist douchebags for no reason, she should have that right. Sarkeesian's made a career out of that. And no, she shouldn't get fired for it. It shouldn't reflect on Anet at all. It's her personal twitter account. This is common sense, it's not hard to grasp.

    The fact that Anet felt they needed to act, that someone said a court would find this grounds for termination, just proves how far PC has gone beyond reason.

    If we keep going the way we are then pretty soon it will be "A brave new world".
    Sorry, but actions have consequences.  You don't get to pick and choose when they have consequences.
    YashaX

    image
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,567
    edited July 2018
    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    MadFrenchieEponyxDamorYashaXvandal5627
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    JakeSim said:
    I lol'd at this.

    This person is unbelievable;

    "The whole thing was highly unprofessional. There was zero reason for him to be there. He wanted to vent his anger, and he had the power to command a woman to stand there while he took his feelings out on her, so he did. Then he walked out, [the manager] got my stuff from my desk and the HR person asked for my key card."

    Why does she keep it going?  "he had the power to command a woman" This is exactly why she got fired. It had nothing to do with her being a woman. Such an oblivious fool.

    The other guy got fired too. She literally lives in her head and thinks every man is misogynistic. It's insane.

    Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-07-10-fired-guild-wars-2-writer-was-given-no-warning
    As I said in another thread she's a raging narcissist with delusions of grander. All of this fight the power, fight the patriarchy shit is just her play acting in her own little fantasy world where she's the star attraction. She thinks it makes her a crusader, when all it really is, is her excuse to be extremely shitty to people but avoid facing the consequences by continually pulling the victim card. Well this time she decided to role out that little arrogant clap trap in the public eye, and none of said public were impressed. She can continue to not face reality and claim she's won some kind of moral Pyrrhic victory but all she really accomplished was to besmirch the reputation of real feminists, tarnish the reputations of software developers, and become unemployed. All this trying to justify her position after the fact is just playing chess with a pigeon. All the pigeon accomplishes is to knock over the pieces, shit on the board, then strut around like its won.

    laxieYashaXmmrvLeiloniblamo2000vandal5627ysquare21

    "You have kept me at your beck and call for fifteen years. I shall never again do what you demand of me. By every rule of single combat, from this moment your life belongs to me. Is that not correct? Then I shall simply declare you dead. In all of your dealings with me, you'll do me the courtesy to conduct yourself as a dead man. I have submitted to your notions of honor long enough. You will now submit to mine."

  • marksteelemarksteele Member UncommonPosts: 59
    Leiloni said:
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    A fine example of how far out of whack political correctness has gone. Just proving my point.
    This isn't about political correctness. It's just about one person being very toxic and being subject to the obvious consequences of that. She wasn't even right in what she said.
    Since when has being right had anything to do with having an opinion.

    She didn't work in PR or as a community manager, she was a dev, on her private twitter. Anyone with half a brain cell should realise that anything posted was her personal opinion and nothing to do with Anet.

    I'm not excusing her behaviour or saying she was right. I'm saying she has a right to say what she wants in her own free time. However offensive, right or wrong.

    No company or employer should have the power to fire somebody who is on their own time, outside of company hours and not acting in an official capacity for that company, for anything they say or do.

    It shouldn't matter how toxic she was, she has that right, or she should if PC wasn't eroding free speech. And there shouldn't be any consequences, other than people not bothering to follow her on twitter.

    If she wants to go on some feminist rant and tell everyone to eat shit and die for being misogynist douchebags for no reason, she should have that right. Sarkeesian's made a career out of that. And no, she shouldn't get fired for it. It shouldn't reflect on Anet at all. It's her personal twitter account. This is common sense, it's not hard to grasp.

    The fact that Anet felt they needed to act, that someone said a court would find this grounds for termination, just proves how far PC has gone beyond reason.

    If we keep going the way we are then pretty soon it will be "A brave new world".
    Sooo to be clear, you fully support things like trumps "Grab them by the pussy" statement? It was made in private on his own time. I know this is only tangentially related, I just wanted to check if you were a hypocrite or not. 
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    edited July 2018
    Ungood said:
    For anyone wondering, Game Journalist, need to stay on the good side with developers and be their cheering section if they expect to get any personal relations with them. 

    See, just like all the gamers are crying about how Price was mean the client, keep in mind that a Games Journalist, looking for insider info, the Developers are their client as well as the gaming public, and what did we all just learn from this fiasco kids?

    That's right.. do not speak ill of your clients..


    Only if they are paid shills for said developers.

    Otherwise their readers are and have always been their clients.

    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    So if somebody called you a rapist, it's just words and not a life destroying accusation?

    Dakeru
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