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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    edited July 2018
    Aeander said:
    SBFord said:
    Xasapis said:

    You know, that is interesting that you brought up gamergate (I wasn't aware of it until years). One of the /r/guildwars2 threads I was reading there was a person questioning whether gamergate was right on its assessment regarding gaming press, considering how falsely and on a script the whole situation with guildwars2 is portrait.

    Gaming press has indeed lost considerable relevance over the years, exactly because they chose to push ideology over the facts.

    The reaction towards both your editorial pieces should be an indication on how people that are not necessarily invested in Anet feel. The same contrast is there between the reaction of Guildwars2 players and the gaming press.

    The bottom line was that the CEO of Anet had to choose between appeasing the players or the press. I think he made the right choice, but time will tell.
    I didn't write that. I simply posted quotes from the link provided in the response I made. It's an interesting side light to the overall discussion. The people who wrote that article are not games press. 

    I don't have an opinion so let's not sling shade please. It's been a very reasonable discussion and I hope it stays that way. 

    @mmrv Again - I did NOT write that, simply provided a link and two quotes from the larger piece. Keep it civil, please.
    The problem is that the article that you provided was yet another biased and poorly researched outside perspective of the situation which pushes the same incorrect narrative that these threads have attempted to push in their OP's. 

    If you had wanted an actual neutral, comprehensive, level-headed analysis of the situation, you would have linked Woodenpotatoes' 57 minute video on the topic.
    I wasn't LOOKING for a neutral, unbiased article. I posted the link to yet another piece of the puzzle that has interesting discussion opportunities within its words. I like to read all sides of any argument. That makes me informed.

    Just stop.
    HexedprojektYashaXTorvalThahar


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,260
    What I think is really interesting in all of this is that here as well as on other sites, what I'm seeing is fans are almost entirely in agreement in that Jessica was in the wrong, her past behavior has shown this to be a pattern, and the firing was either expected or appropriate.

    The only people that are a) making this a big deal, and b) think this is a huge PR nightmare and that ArenaNet is wrong in some ways and that Jessica is right in some ways, are gaming journalists. Again not just the writers on this site but on numerous others.

    I don't know the reasons for this difference but it is striking to me.
    SBFordlearis1laxieEponyxDamorYashaXCaffynatedThahar
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,057
    I read the series of e-mails and my take-aways were:

    1. I get how having some random person stopping by your twitter feed to suggest how you should do your job is irritating. Of course, the employee did create that Twitter feed and listed her role at AN on it.

    2. I also get that people talking to Devs about what they should be doing differently is nothing new, nothing wrong, and happens constantly. So a Dev has to either hide from people (thinking of you Sean Spicer) or be able to play nice when they are questioned.

    3. AN could have suspended these employees for a week and avoided a lot of this bad press. Maybe with some anger management required. Maybe requiring an apology.
    SBFord

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Warhawke80Warhawke80 Member UncommonPosts: 291
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.


    Yeah I read that article (Which once again @SBFORD did not write ) and it made me think of an old saying I learned in Poland that translates roughly as.... "The people that control you are the ones you aren't allowed to criticize."

    And lets face it JP pretty much obviously thinks any time anyone with a penis speaks to her, they are exerting power over her and should not be allowed to do that, and so do the good folks at Polygon and RPS.

    That isn't equality or leveling the playing field.... At best it's a very authoritarian tactic of division by allowing (And if you have ever lived in a communist country you know this) the pendulum to swing in wide arcs on both sides, (which keeps division which is needed)  at worst it's evil exploitation of a worthy cause by a very unethical person.

    Regardless.....it's just wrong, also I really don't know about the throngs of developers she claims are supporting her, but every single female I know personally in the industry from corporations like Daybreak, Cryptic, and Bethesda thinks she's an asshole that isn't helping equality one iota.

    In short, no matter how much big brother is trying to spin this, most gamers male or female aren't buying it.

    So they do what they do best and lament the toxic industry/consumer that are made up of evil, evil males.


    SBFord
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,442
    Leiloni said:
    What I think is really interesting in all of this is that here as well as on other sites, what I'm seeing is fans are almost entirely in agreement in that Jessica was in the wrong, her past behavior has shown this to be a pattern, and the firing was either expected or appropriate.

    The only people that are a) making this a big deal, and b) think this is a huge PR nightmare and that ArenaNet is wrong in some ways and that Jessica is right in some ways, are gaming journalists. Again not just the writers on this site but on numerous others.

    I don't know the reasons for this difference but it is striking to me.
    Perhaps there is a larger divide between "the industry" and "the players" then we assumed there was? I do not think it is intentional however, not like a cover up or sticking up for your colleagues.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    SBFord
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    Aeander said:
    SBFord said:
    Xasapis said:

    You know, that is interesting that you brought up gamergate (I wasn't aware of it until years). One of the /r/guildwars2 threads I was reading there was a person questioning whether gamergate was right on its assessment regarding gaming press, considering how falsely and on a script the whole situation with guildwars2 is portrait.

    Gaming press has indeed lost considerable relevance over the years, exactly because they chose to push ideology over the facts.

    The reaction towards both your editorial pieces should be an indication on how people that are not necessarily invested in Anet feel. The same contrast is there between the reaction of Guildwars2 players and the gaming press.

    The bottom line was that the CEO of Anet had to choose between appeasing the players or the press. I think he made the right choice, but time will tell.
    I didn't write that. I simply posted quotes from the link provided in the response I made. It's an interesting side light to the overall discussion. The people who wrote that article are not games press. 

    I don't have an opinion so let's not sling shade please. It's been a very reasonable discussion and I hope it stays that way. 

    @mmrv Again - I did NOT write that, simply provided a link and two quotes from the larger piece. Keep it civil, please.
    The problem is that the article that you provided was yet another biased and poorly researched outside perspective of the situation which pushes the same incorrect narrative that these threads have attempted to push in their OP's. 

    If you had wanted an actual neutral, comprehensive, level-headed analysis of the situation, you would have linked Woodenpotatoes' 57 minute video on the topic.
    I wasn't LOOKING for a neutral, unbiased article. I posted the link to yet another piece of the puzzle that has interesting discussion opportunities within its words. I like to read all sides of any argument. That makes me informed.

    Just stop.
    To me, saying there's multiple sides of this particular argument is like saying there's multiple sides to the argument that the Earth is flat or not. ....There isn't. One side is clearly wrong.

    The only thing there's multiple sides to is the firing of Fries, and most people agree that was definitively gray area and maybe a bit heavy handed. But on the matter of JP....just no.
    Aeandersimsalabim77EponyxDamorYashaXThahar

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,790
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets


    This is yet again just asking to ignore everything she said.
    I'm sorry but is this some kind of new offensive meme from gamer sites?

    'Price did nothing wrong'
    Warhawke80JeffSpicoliYashaXThahar
    Harbinger of Fools
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    edited July 2018
    Sephiroso said:

    To me, saying there's multiple sides of this particular argument is like saying there's multiple sides to the argument that the Earth is flat or not. ....There isn't. One side is clearly wrong.

    The only thing there's multiple sides to is the firing of Fries, and most people agree that was definitively gray area and maybe a bit heavy handed. But on the matter of JP....just no.
    I'm always interested in all sides, even those that disagree with my personal opinion. By reading everything that's out there, all of the thoughts even if they're in opposition to what I believe, I get to hear other voices on this topic and every other. It's what makes me comfortable offering my opinions when I feel like giving them -- because I know I've done my research.
    YashaXRain_Deathraven


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • Warhawke80Warhawke80 Member UncommonPosts: 291
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    I'm always interested in all sides, even those that disagree with my personal opinion. By reading everything that's out there, all of the thoughts even if they're in opposition to what I believe, I get to hear other voices on this topic and every other. It's what makes me comfortable offering my opinions when I feel like giving them -- because I know I've done my research.
    Pity more people on both sides of the argument don't have this common sense view. I think some people feel like they need to rah rah for their side even if deep down they feel like some of the diametric viewpoint could be or is valid.

    In the end all we can really say for sure is "For reasons this isn't helping the equality debate."
    SBFord
  • celtwulfceltwulf Member UncommonPosts: 61
    You're actually trying to look at it from all sides? Because all everyone here can see is an attempt to discredit someone on ONE side. I will bring politics into it because I don't care what anyone else thinks & it doesn't hurt my feelings at all if they don't like what I believe. I am a Democrat & have been since I understood the politics of this country & yes I think she went WAY TO FAR. She threw a temper tantrum & brought gender into a situation where it was not needed AT ALL. Personally I can't stand the alt-right at all but all this white knight crap from the regressive left is just as bad. "This woman is being attacked we must rush to her aide" No she attacked & guess what? People attacked back. This is just like all the writers who was defending Manveer Heir at Bioware who was making racist remarks EVERY SINGLE WEEK. At one point he even said: "All white people should be herded & culled" & then everyone keeps wondering why people turn from the left. This ignorant white knighting hurts liberalism.
    Warhawke80LeiloniJeffSpicoliYashaXblamo2000CaffynatedThahar
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 732
    edited July 2018
    There isn't much to add that I haven't already said in other threads. However, I will say that while I appreciate Mark O'Brien's swift and decisive action, I do not feel that it was necessary to post publicly that the employees were fired; eventually, "the internet" would have figured it out as Fries removed his title from his bio and Price went squealing about injustice to the press. That was a small misstep in his decision making process.

    However, I wholly disagree with the conclusion @BillMurphy came to:

    "Mike O’Brien ... has instead given his employees targets on their backs – a notice that says, 'Go head, kick me and abuse me. I can’t do anything if I want to keep my job.'"

    If anything, it sends a message to other developers/employees to not attack fans via social media with the company name listed in your bio. Its as simple as that. How anyone can fathom that attacking fans/customers on social media and holding an innocent company partner up as a punching bag (don't pretend JP's clapback at Deroir's initial tweet was anything less) wouldn't end poorly is beyond me.

    (EDIT: Kudos to MMORPG.com for hosting and keeping a civil conversation about this topic. Seriously. Thank you.)
    MadFrenchieWarhawke80Leiloni
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,569
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    MadFrenchieEponyxDamorWarhawke80Buccaneerceltwulfvandal5627laxieZenJellyJeffSpicoliDakeruand 3 others.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    Which is exactly what Deroir did (he responded amicably even in the face of a wholly unwarranted attack from Price).  Price tried to put him on blast publicly, and she paid the price for doing so to someone who didn't deserve it.

    As Price said herself, freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from the consequences of your speech.
    EponyxDamorWarhawke80vandal5627LeiloniDakeruYashaXblamo2000Rain_DeathravenThahar

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  • MacAllenMacAllen Member UncommonPosts: 66
    This is the real world. In the real world, if you act like a jackass in social media *AND* advertise that you "represent" a company, that company will very likely fire you. This isn't unique to the gaming industry, every industry does this, and most of them make it clear. If they acted like an ass in public, they have to be disciplined in public. Too many companies did the opposite and, to the public, it looked like the company openly supports being an ass. Not rocket science, not something new.

    Bottom line, if you work for a company, you advertise that you work for that company, and you participate in social media with that company's name or logo anywhere connected to your social media, don't act like an ass.
    EponyxDamorWarhawke80vandal5627Leiloniblamo2000Thahar
  • cronius77cronius77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,649
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
    Warhawke80celtwulfRidelynnEponyxDamorvandal5627LeiloniDakerublamo2000Thahar
  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 754
    edited July 2018
    #ArenanetDidNothingWrong





    Bill it is your opinion and you are entitled to it, But I think you are 100% wrong.
    forcelimaWylfWarhawke80CaffynatedThahar
  • JakeSimJakeSim Member RarePosts: 879
    edited July 2018
    I lol'd at this.

    This person is unbelievable;

    "The whole thing was highly unprofessional. There was zero reason for him to be there. He wanted to vent his anger, and he had the power to command a woman to stand there while he took his feelings out on her, so he did. Then he walked out, [the manager] got my stuff from my desk and the HR person asked for my key card."

    Why does she keep it going?  "he had the power to command a woman" This is exactly why she got fired. It had nothing to do with her being a woman. Such an oblivious fool.

    The other guy got fired too. She literally lives in her head and thinks every man is misogynistic. It's insane.

    Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-07-10-fired-guild-wars-2-writer-was-given-no-warning
    celtwulflaxieLeiloniforcelimaYashaXblamo2000Thahar
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  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,039
    For anyone wondering, Game Journalist, need to stay on the good side with developers and be their cheering section if they expect to get any personal relations with them. 

    See, just like all the gamers are crying about how Price was mean the client, keep in mind that a Games Journalist, looking for insider info, the Developers are their client as well as the gaming public, and what did we all just learn from this fiasco kids?

    That's right.. do not speak ill of your clients..


    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,569
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    MadFrenchieEponyxDamorzakiyawowvandal5627
  • ScellowScellow Member RarePosts: 398
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    ZenJellyMadFrenchiejmcdermottukvandal5627Thahar
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,442
    JakeSim said:
    I lol'd at this.

    This person is unbelievable;

    "The whole thing was highly unprofessional. There was zero reason for him to be there. He wanted to vent his anger, and he had the power to command a woman to stand there while he took his feelings out on her, so he did. Then he walked out, [the manager] got my stuff from my desk and the HR person asked for my key card."

    Why does she keep it going?  "he had the power to command a woman" This is exactly why she got fired. It had nothing to do with her being a woman. Such an oblivious fool.

    The other guy got fired too. She literally lives in her head and thinks every man is misogynistic. It's insane.

    Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-07-10-fired-guild-wars-2-writer-was-given-no-warning
    Its a self fulfilling prophecy and a massive insult to real victims of gender inequality at the same time. Unfortunately with people like these their good cause has become an all consuming loop in their head that becomes a narrative plastered over any and everything. And when that happens publicly you get the massive disconnect that you are seeing right now.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    LeiloniDakeruJakeSimYashaXblamo2000
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,580
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    Aeander said:
    SBFord said:
    Xasapis said:

    You know, that is interesting that you brought up gamergate (I wasn't aware of it until years). One of the /r/guildwars2 threads I was reading there was a person questioning whether gamergate was right on its assessment regarding gaming press, considering how falsely and on a script the whole situation with guildwars2 is portrait.

    Gaming press has indeed lost considerable relevance over the years, exactly because they chose to push ideology over the facts.

    The reaction towards both your editorial pieces should be an indication on how people that are not necessarily invested in Anet feel. The same contrast is there between the reaction of Guildwars2 players and the gaming press.

    The bottom line was that the CEO of Anet had to choose between appeasing the players or the press. I think he made the right choice, but time will tell.
    I didn't write that. I simply posted quotes from the link provided in the response I made. It's an interesting side light to the overall discussion. The people who wrote that article are not games press. 

    I don't have an opinion so let's not sling shade please. It's been a very reasonable discussion and I hope it stays that way. 

    @mmrv Again - I did NOT write that, simply provided a link and two quotes from the larger piece. Keep it civil, please.
    The problem is that the article that you provided was yet another biased and poorly researched outside perspective of the situation which pushes the same incorrect narrative that these threads have attempted to push in their OP's. 

    If you had wanted an actual neutral, comprehensive, level-headed analysis of the situation, you would have linked Woodenpotatoes' 57 minute video on the topic.
    I wasn't LOOKING for a neutral, unbiased article. I posted the link to yet another piece of the puzzle that has interesting discussion opportunities within its words. I like to read all sides of any argument. That makes me informed.

    Just stop.
    Allow me to apologize for any offense given. I do not hold you in particular to be responsible for any potential bias shown or perceived here, in light of the fact that you did not actually write the MMORPG opinion pieces, or any linked opinion pieces on the topic. I respect your claim to neutrality and responsibility to read into both sides of the argument.

    However, I think it fair for me to state that MMORPG.com has the expertise, the knowledge, and the topical relevancy to balance the ongoing conversation on the subject and has failed to do so. Twice. The first thread was an inoffensive, if uninformative cliffnotes on the subject that many here interpreted as being one-sided in favor of the fired developers due to the lack of any substantial information on the actual content that ended in said firing. The second, an opinion piece, is going with the popular media narrative, again, in favor of the fired developers. I am not seeing both sides of the argument here. Frankly, if an outside reader were to only read the features and ignore the comments, they would not receive a factual view into both sides of the argument. They would receive a defense piece, which, like so many other games media articles, characterizes Mike O'Brien as a reactionary cartoon villain. Perhaps we are pending a counterpoint opinion thread that gives voice to the other side of the argument, but right now, that has not come to pass.

    It wasn't some great insult when I referenced a great, comprehensive video that covers the entire controversy in the most reasonable way possible. I do not know why that was met with negativity. Frankly, I think I should have been thanked for pointing in the direction of something that actually provides every side of the argument in a polite way, because almost every video I've seen posted by other posters here has held a flagrant far-right rhetoric that doesn't help anyone or lend any credibility to the argument being made. This video is by far the best journalism I have seen on the topic from any source, and it comes from an actual Guild Wars 2 partner with knowledge on the matter and connection to all parties involved.



    For those interested:


    SBFordIselinEponyxDamorYashaXblamo2000
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited July 2018
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    Leiloni

    image
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,569
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    A fine example of how far out of whack political correctness has gone. Just proving my point.
    EponyxDamorMadFrenchievandal5627Thahar
  • goozmaniagoozmania Member UncommonPosts: 313
    edited July 2018
    Anyone defending this horrible monster of a woman deserves the same fate she got... I'm looking at you, Kotaku and MMORPG.com
    SBFordforcelimaCaffynated
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