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Let the pre-Alpha cash shop items flow...

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  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 480
    edited July 2018
    I no longer watch the game, and to confess I have a baron package. If refunds come I will be taking one!


    To continue along this line of honesty I've argued with no end of you about this game and now I have to eat my hat and agree with you...

    ***edit***
    This account was to leave my old identity behind and communicate with the community here on a new basis and to get to know you all without the CoE crap playing on the minds of everyone 
    KyleranGdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,234
    What was your other account?

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 480
    What was your other account?
    One that disagreed massively with you and... 

    I was wrong. 

    Can we leave it there? 
    KyleranAsm0deus
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,234
    Sure
    KyleranAsm0deus

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 480
    Thanks.

    But on to the point on the tokens. 

    Pay to build can no longer be slightly defended, its pay to win and nothing can stop that now. 


    I watched the game from before the kick starter and its no longer what it was stated, in fact its just a big mess... 
    KyleranOctagon7711GdemamiAsm0deus
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    AnOldFart said:
    I no longer watch the game, and to confess I have a baron package. If refunds come I will be taking one!


    To continue along this line of honesty I've argued with no end of you about this game and now I have to eat my hat and agree with you...

    ***edit***
    This account was to leave my old identity behind and communicate with the community here on a new basis and to get to know you all without the CoE crap playing on the minds of everyone 
    Hats off to you. It takes guts to admit when you are wrong.

    And I was right there with you for a time, I was an early fan and pledged at the Astronomer KS package. 

    It's sad to see how low the game has fallen when compared to what was promised during KS. 
    AnOldFartOctagon7711Gdemami
    --------------------------------------------
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    This is a point I would love to discuss.

    The goal of the game is not to become a Nobel, it is to do whatever you want. If that means you want to be a blacksmith, or an adventure, or a cook, then trying to put a crown on your head is not where you want to be.

    This makes me think about Guilds in other games.

    Often players need to buy a guild to be a guild leader, then they have officers, and the like. Now, to say everyone that joins a guild, joins with the intention to be a guild leader would be foolish, in fact, I would wager that most don't even want to be officers. They like the social aspect, but would rather play the game, have fun doing what they are doing, then dealing with drama and social issues that the Leader and Officers need to deal with. 

    Now some people join guilds to try and take over, often because they would rather ruin someone else work then put in the work themselves to make their own guild.

    The same could be said for a game like CoE, I wager a large portion of the game, really has no vested goal to be a King, just like they had no need to be leaders in the guilds they joined, they are there to play a game, not play drama-unlimited. Sure some will have delusion that they want to be a Nobel, but I would wager a large portion of them would not want to deal with drama and social problems that will come with it, ergo, like the whole issue of having someone else kick you out of the position.

    So, buying that "Nobility" package, is like buying a Guild Hall, and discovering that you get guild makes thrust upon you... let me know how that is winning.
    StaalBurgher
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    AnOldFart said:
    I no longer watch the game, and to confess I have a baron package. If refunds come I will be taking one!

    Not trying to rip you down, but I think there is about as much a chance for a refund as there is for this game to get made at all.
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 480
    Ungood said:
    AnOldFart said:
    I no longer watch the game, and to confess I have a baron package. If refunds come I will be taking one!

    Not trying to rip you down, but I think there is about as much a chance for a refund as there is for this game to get made at all.
    I know they won't come hence the reason I said IF
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,234
    The mental gymnastics needed to arrive at a point where being the people who set the laws and have the troops is a disadvantage is truly stunning.  But let’s for instance take the concept that I just want to be a sheep farmer.  Well... the store sold items such as livestock and prize livestock.  It sold seeds... it sold starter packs.  All canbe redeemed after launch.  You can buy yourself land...  buildings...  more  NPC slots...  Heck depending on you pledge you can even buy upgraded technology sites.
    WellspringOctagon7711

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    This is a point I would love to discuss.

    The goal of the game is not to become a Nobel, it is to do whatever you want. If that means you want to be a blacksmith, or an adventure, or a cook, then trying to put a crown on your head is not where you want to be.

    This makes me think about Guilds in other games.

    Often players need to buy a guild to be a guild leader, then they have officers, and the like. Now, to say everyone that joins a guild, joins with the intention to be a guild leader would be foolish, in fact, I would wager that most don't even want to be officers. They like the social aspect, but would rather play the game, have fun doing what they are doing, then dealing with drama and social issues that the Leader and Officers need to deal with. 

    Now some people join guilds to try and take over, often because they would rather ruin someone else work then put in the work themselves to make their own guild.

    The same could be said for a game like CoE, I wager a large portion of the game, really has no vested goal to be a King, just like they had no need to be leaders in the guilds they joined, they are there to play a game, not play drama-unlimited. Sure some will have delusion that they want to be a Nobel, but I would wager a large portion of them would not want to deal with drama and social problems that will come with it, ergo, like the whole issue of having someone else kick you out of the position.

    So, buying that "Nobility" package, is like buying a Guild Hall, and discovering that you get guild makes thrust upon you... let me know how that is winning.
    Like I said in response to Staalburgher, whatever you dream up as the hypothetical point of the game for some theoretical player (instead of being a noble)... it can also be bought in their P2W cash shop.

    Case and point -- blacksmith, adventurer, and cook.
    --------------------------------------------
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 480
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    This is a point I would love to discuss.

    The goal of the game is not to become a Nobel, it is to do whatever you want. If that means you want to be a blacksmith, or an adventure, or a cook, then trying to put a crown on your head is not where you want to be.

    This makes me think about Guilds in other games.

    Often players need to buy a guild to be a guild leader, then they have officers, and the like. Now, to say everyone that joins a guild, joins with the intention to be a guild leader would be foolish, in fact, I would wager that most don't even want to be officers. They like the social aspect, but would rather play the game, have fun doing what they are doing, then dealing with drama and social issues that the Leader and Officers need to deal with. 

    Now some people join guilds to try and take over, often because they would rather ruin someone else work then put in the work themselves to make their own guild.

    The same could be said for a game like CoE, I wager a large portion of the game, really has no vested goal to be a King, just like they had no need to be leaders in the guilds they joined, they are there to play a game, not play drama-unlimited. Sure some will have delusion that they want to be a Nobel, but I would wager a large portion of them would not want to deal with drama and social problems that will come with it, ergo, like the whole issue of having someone else kick you out of the position.

    So, buying that "Nobility" package, is like buying a Guild Hall, and discovering that you get guild makes thrust upon you... let me know how that is winning.
    Like I said in response to Staalburgher, whatever you dream up as the hypothetical point of the game for some theoretical player (instead of being a noble)... it can also be bought in their P2W cash shop.

    Case and point -- blacksmith, adventurer, and cook.
    Farmer, raider
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,878
    So if you don't have the money you have to start from scratch and try to play catch up to those who will be starting with full packages because of wallet size. 
    WellspringAnOldFart

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,579
    AnOldFart said:
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    This is a point I would love to discuss.

    The goal of the game is not to become a Nobel, it is to do whatever you want. If that means you want to be a blacksmith, or an adventure, or a cook, then trying to put a crown on your head is not where you want to be.

    This makes me think about Guilds in other games.

    Often players need to buy a guild to be a guild leader, then they have officers, and the like. Now, to say everyone that joins a guild, joins with the intention to be a guild leader would be foolish, in fact, I would wager that most don't even want to be officers. They like the social aspect, but would rather play the game, have fun doing what they are doing, then dealing with drama and social issues that the Leader and Officers need to deal with. 

    Now some people join guilds to try and take over, often because they would rather ruin someone else work then put in the work themselves to make their own guild.

    The same could be said for a game like CoE, I wager a large portion of the game, really has no vested goal to be a King, just like they had no need to be leaders in the guilds they joined, they are there to play a game, not play drama-unlimited. Sure some will have delusion that they want to be a Nobel, but I would wager a large portion of them would not want to deal with drama and social problems that will come with it, ergo, like the whole issue of having someone else kick you out of the position.

    So, buying that "Nobility" package, is like buying a Guild Hall, and discovering that you get guild makes thrust upon you... let me know how that is winning.
    Like I said in response to Staalburgher, whatever you dream up as the hypothetical point of the game for some theoretical player (instead of being a noble)... it can also be bought in their P2W cash shop.

    Case and point -- blacksmith, adventurer, and cook.
    Farmer, raider
    Butcher, Baker, Candleshop Maker....

    WellspringUngoodAnOldFart

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,878
    Kyleran said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    This is a point I would love to discuss.

    The goal of the game is not to become a Nobel, it is to do whatever you want. If that means you want to be a blacksmith, or an adventure, or a cook, then trying to put a crown on your head is not where you want to be.

    This makes me think about Guilds in other games.

    Often players need to buy a guild to be a guild leader, then they have officers, and the like. Now, to say everyone that joins a guild, joins with the intention to be a guild leader would be foolish, in fact, I would wager that most don't even want to be officers. They like the social aspect, but would rather play the game, have fun doing what they are doing, then dealing with drama and social issues that the Leader and Officers need to deal with. 

    Now some people join guilds to try and take over, often because they would rather ruin someone else work then put in the work themselves to make their own guild.

    The same could be said for a game like CoE, I wager a large portion of the game, really has no vested goal to be a King, just like they had no need to be leaders in the guilds they joined, they are there to play a game, not play drama-unlimited. Sure some will have delusion that they want to be a Nobel, but I would wager a large portion of them would not want to deal with drama and social problems that will come with it, ergo, like the whole issue of having someone else kick you out of the position.

    So, buying that "Nobility" package, is like buying a Guild Hall, and discovering that you get guild makes thrust upon you... let me know how that is winning.
    Like I said in response to Staalburgher, whatever you dream up as the hypothetical point of the game for some theoretical player (instead of being a noble)... it can also be bought in their P2W cash shop.

    Case and point -- blacksmith, adventurer, and cook.
    Farmer, raider
    Butcher, Baker, Candleshop Maker....

    "My lords, my ladies, and everybody else here not sitting on a cushion!"
    WellspringUngoodMadFrenchie

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited July 2018
    Oh yes, I surmise that being a peasant with a mundane job will be such a huge draw that half those Kings will regret having the responsibility of determining what the actual rules are!

    What, you guys didn't read that Tolkien trilogy about the hobbit baking a wedding cake?  Absolutely riveting.
    KyleranUngoodAnOldFart

    image
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,915
    Oh yes, I surmise that being a peasant with a mundane job will be such a huge draw that half those Kings will regret having the responsibility of determining what the actual rules are!

    What, you guys didn't read that Tolkien trilogy about the hobbit baking a wedding cake?  Absolutely riveting.
    Now imagine that cake baker logging in to his character dead and notified that they need to buy a spark of life.

    Icing on the cake. MMMmmm.
    KyleranAsm0deusWellspringMadFrenchieUngoodPhry

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • some-clueless-guysome-clueless-guy Member UncommonPosts: 216
    Work-day done, gets home, takes a shower, thinks about what to have for dinner. Let's have some fun in a game. Loading....

    "M'lord! Please here, fuck my girlfriend, we are getting married tomorrow and I wouldn't want to leave you out of the deal!"
    "What! 500 coins for a potato?! But 500 coins is what I make with my whole harvest! Hmm ok."
    "Hmm, war is brewing on the horizon. Let's hope I get recruited with the militia and die in a ditch! That would show them."

    The peasant's life and all it's perks...

    I think that it is true that not everyone will want to be a King or a noBLe, but to long to be at the bottom of the food chain in a game seems pretty perverse to me.

    Ungood
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    This is a point I would love to discuss.

    The goal of the game is not to become a Nobel, it is to do whatever you want. If that means you want to be a blacksmith, or an adventure, or a cook, then trying to put a crown on your head is not where you want to be.

    This makes me think about Guilds in other games.

    Often players need to buy a guild to be a guild leader, then they have officers, and the like. Now, to say everyone that joins a guild, joins with the intention to be a guild leader would be foolish, in fact, I would wager that most don't even want to be officers. They like the social aspect, but would rather play the game, have fun doing what they are doing, then dealing with drama and social issues that the Leader and Officers need to deal with. 

    Now some people join guilds to try and take over, often because they would rather ruin someone else work then put in the work themselves to make their own guild.

    The same could be said for a game like CoE, I wager a large portion of the game, really has no vested goal to be a King, just like they had no need to be leaders in the guilds they joined, they are there to play a game, not play drama-unlimited. Sure some will have delusion that they want to be a Nobel, but I would wager a large portion of them would not want to deal with drama and social problems that will come with it, ergo, like the whole issue of having someone else kick you out of the position.

    So, buying that "Nobility" package, is like buying a Guild Hall, and discovering that you get guild makes thrust upon you... let me know how that is winning.
    Like I said in response to Staalburgher, whatever you dream up as the hypothetical point of the game for some theoretical player (instead of being a noble)... it can also be bought in their P2W cash shop.

    Case and point -- blacksmith, adventurer, and cook.
    Who the fuck would P2W being a Blacksmith?
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Like... Seriously.. why the hell would Anyone "P2W" unless they were going BIG, I mean I totally understand and respect all the people with delusions of gander about being Kings and Queens, getting all bent about the vast P2W this game has in that direction. Totally respect that. 

    But.. Buying to be the "Best Farmer" ? Like for real? that is literally spending real money to buy your way at being the best peasant, or the best Average Joe, do they have a town fool package, or does everyone get that by default?  
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,308
    Work-day done, gets home, takes a shower, thinks about what to have for dinner. Let's have some fun in a game. Loading....

    "M'lord! Please here, fuck my girlfriend, we are getting married tomorrow and I wouldn't want to leave you out of the deal!"
    "What! 500 coins for a potato?! But 500 coins is what I make with my whole harvest! Hmm ok."
    "Hmm, war is brewing on the horizon. Let's hope I get recruited with the militia and die in a ditch! That would show them."

    The peasant's life and all it's perks...

    I think that it is true that not everyone will want to be a King or a noBLe, but to long to be at the bottom of the food chain in a game seems pretty perverse to me.

    lol





  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    This is a point I would love to discuss.

    The goal of the game is not to become a Nobel, it is to do whatever you want. If that means you want to be a blacksmith, or an adventure, or a cook, then trying to put a crown on your head is not where you want to be.

    This makes me think about Guilds in other games.

    Often players need to buy a guild to be a guild leader, then they have officers, and the like. Now, to say everyone that joins a guild, joins with the intention to be a guild leader would be foolish, in fact, I would wager that most don't even want to be officers. They like the social aspect, but would rather play the game, have fun doing what they are doing, then dealing with drama and social issues that the Leader and Officers need to deal with. 

    Now some people join guilds to try and take over, often because they would rather ruin someone else work then put in the work themselves to make their own guild.

    The same could be said for a game like CoE, I wager a large portion of the game, really has no vested goal to be a King, just like they had no need to be leaders in the guilds they joined, they are there to play a game, not play drama-unlimited. Sure some will have delusion that they want to be a Nobel, but I would wager a large portion of them would not want to deal with drama and social problems that will come with it, ergo, like the whole issue of having someone else kick you out of the position.

    So, buying that "Nobility" package, is like buying a Guild Hall, and discovering that you get guild makes thrust upon you... let me know how that is winning.
    Like I said in response to Staalburgher, whatever you dream up as the hypothetical point of the game for some theoretical player (instead of being a noble)... it can also be bought in their P2W cash shop.

    Case and point -- blacksmith, adventurer, and cook.
    Who the fuck would P2W being a Blacksmith?
    Who?! Idk someone who likes crafting and wants to take the easy way forward I guess.

    That's not the point though. The blacksmith was your own example. And you asked "let me know how that's winning". Being a King may not be winning to that imaginary person, but they have tons of other P2W packages, which helps the blacksmith, adventurer, cook, etc win. 

    You can't just change the question to "who" when you are challenged. It was never about who or if anyone will buy the P2W packages, because spoiler alert they will / have. It was a question of is the game P2W for the minority of players who don't consider nobility to be winning --- which P2W it is. 

    Slapshot1188
    --------------------------------------------
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    This is a point I would love to discuss.

    The goal of the game is not to become a Nobel, it is to do whatever you want. If that means you want to be a blacksmith, or an adventure, or a cook, then trying to put a crown on your head is not where you want to be.

    This makes me think about Guilds in other games.

    Often players need to buy a guild to be a guild leader, then they have officers, and the like. Now, to say everyone that joins a guild, joins with the intention to be a guild leader would be foolish, in fact, I would wager that most don't even want to be officers. They like the social aspect, but would rather play the game, have fun doing what they are doing, then dealing with drama and social issues that the Leader and Officers need to deal with. 

    Now some people join guilds to try and take over, often because they would rather ruin someone else work then put in the work themselves to make their own guild.

    The same could be said for a game like CoE, I wager a large portion of the game, really has no vested goal to be a King, just like they had no need to be leaders in the guilds they joined, they are there to play a game, not play drama-unlimited. Sure some will have delusion that they want to be a Nobel, but I would wager a large portion of them would not want to deal with drama and social problems that will come with it, ergo, like the whole issue of having someone else kick you out of the position.

    So, buying that "Nobility" package, is like buying a Guild Hall, and discovering that you get guild makes thrust upon you... let me know how that is winning.
    Like I said in response to Staalburgher, whatever you dream up as the hypothetical point of the game for some theoretical player (instead of being a noble)... it can also be bought in their P2W cash shop.

    Case and point -- blacksmith, adventurer, and cook.
    Who the fuck would P2W being a Blacksmith?
    Who?! Idk someone who likes crafting and wants to take the easy way forward I guess.

    That's not the point though. The blacksmith was your own example. And you asked "let me know how that's winning". Being a King may not be winning to that imaginary person, but they have tons of other P2W packages, which helps the blacksmith, adventurer, cook, etc win. 

    You can't just change the question to "who" when you are challenged. It was never about who or if anyone will buy the P2W packages, because spoiler alert they will / have. It was a question of is the game P2W for the minority of players who don't consider nobility to be winning --- which P2W it is. 

    No. No.

    See, Paying to Win. by the nature of what that says.. There needs to be a Win Involved. Some kind of Victory.

    Maybe I am asking too much from the P2W system. Maybe it's gotten a little watered down over the years, or what have you, but when I am dumping money into a P2W system, II expect it to give me a Win.

    So.. Imagine for a moment, I am a player that has never even looked into the store, I have not been following this game for years, nor have I gotten all wrapped up in all the drama, I saw the game on my news feed and said "Humm that looks fun"

    Given that player, that you just said this game is riddled with P2W, I'll ask again.. "How is being a generic blacksmith Winning"

    To give you an example, just so you can understand better, do these packages offer me something like magical blacksmithing unavailable to anyone else? 

    See, now that could be a Win, to me, if I was going to plan to be a Weaponsmith then being the only player able to craft Legendary Weapons or something along those lines, I could see that as a Win.

    Is that what any of these packages offer?

    Unique Special Abilities that the F2P peasant plebeians can't get? 

    Or.. do I just get something generic and lame for all this money, along the lines of "your own forage and a 10% learning boost" which.. normal players don't view as anything remotely close to P2W.

    So I am asking.. how can someone Win as a Blacksmith in this game? 

    Sure people do it for fun, but no one does crafts to win an MMO, they do it because they like it, next you tell me they have a P2W package for AFK fishing.
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 171
    I still believe in Caspian's P2W scheme, it can still work if he just stays strong and doesn't let up.

    God Bless SbS
    Slapshot1188
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    This is a point I would love to discuss.

    The goal of the game is not to become a Nobel, it is to do whatever you want. If that means you want to be a blacksmith, or an adventure, or a cook, then trying to put a crown on your head is not where you want to be.

    This makes me think about Guilds in other games.

    Often players need to buy a guild to be a guild leader, then they have officers, and the like. Now, to say everyone that joins a guild, joins with the intention to be a guild leader would be foolish, in fact, I would wager that most don't even want to be officers. They like the social aspect, but would rather play the game, have fun doing what they are doing, then dealing with drama and social issues that the Leader and Officers need to deal with. 

    Now some people join guilds to try and take over, often because they would rather ruin someone else work then put in the work themselves to make their own guild.

    The same could be said for a game like CoE, I wager a large portion of the game, really has no vested goal to be a King, just like they had no need to be leaders in the guilds they joined, they are there to play a game, not play drama-unlimited. Sure some will have delusion that they want to be a Nobel, but I would wager a large portion of them would not want to deal with drama and social problems that will come with it, ergo, like the whole issue of having someone else kick you out of the position.

    So, buying that "Nobility" package, is like buying a Guild Hall, and discovering that you get guild makes thrust upon you... let me know how that is winning.
    Like I said in response to Staalburgher, whatever you dream up as the hypothetical point of the game for some theoretical player (instead of being a noble)... it can also be bought in their P2W cash shop.

    Case and point -- blacksmith, adventurer, and cook.
    Who the fuck would P2W being a Blacksmith?
    Who?! Idk someone who likes crafting and wants to take the easy way forward I guess.

    That's not the point though. The blacksmith was your own example. And you asked "let me know how that's winning". Being a King may not be winning to that imaginary person, but they have tons of other P2W packages, which helps the blacksmith, adventurer, cook, etc win. 

    You can't just change the question to "who" when you are challenged. It was never about who or if anyone will buy the P2W packages, because spoiler alert they will / have. It was a question of is the game P2W for the minority of players who don't consider nobility to be winning --- which P2W it is. 

    No. No.

    See, Paying to Win. by the nature of what that says.. There needs to be a Win Involved. Some kind of Victory.

    Maybe I am asking too much from the P2W system. Maybe it's gotten a little watered down over the years, or what have you, but when I am dumping money into a P2W system, II expect it to give me a Win.

    So.. Imagine for a moment, I am a player that has never even looked into the store, I have not been following this game for years, nor have I gotten all wrapped up in all the drama, I saw the game on my news feed and said "Humm that looks fun"

    Given that player, that you just said this game is riddled with P2W, I'll ask again.. "How is being a generic blacksmith Winning"

    To give you an example, just so you can understand better, do these packages offer me something like magical blacksmithing unavailable to anyone else? 

    See, now that could be a Win, to me, if I was going to plan to be a Weaponsmith then being the only player able to craft Legendary Weapons or something along those lines, I could see that as a Win.

    Is that what any of these packages offer?

    Unique Special Abilities that the F2P peasant plebeians can't get? 

    Or.. do I just get something generic and lame for all this money, along the lines of "your own forage and a 10% learning boost" which.. normal players don't view as anything remotely close to P2W.

    So I am asking.. how can someone Win as a Blacksmith in this game? 

    Sure people do it for fun, but no one does crafts to win an MMO, they do it because they like it, next you tell me they have a P2W package for AFK fishing.
    You obviously have no idea how competitive crafters are, being the first to be able to make something, being the best at making things, having the reputation of being able to make the best weapons and armour etc.  Its not a question of who would want to P2W being a blacksmith, its more a question of how many would not.
    KyleranWellspringEponyxDamorGdemami
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