Cmon Jean -Luc , "nobody" is quite a reach and not necessary to make your point ...
But .. Eve still has a solid player base
With most players almost never leaving high security (source: the developers).
UO .. after 20 years still has a dedicated and active base
Thanks to Trammel, 100% PvE world, where most of the players are.
Mortal Online thru all its trials has managed to stabilize and keep a good base
You're kidding here, right? Good base? Or did you mean "ghost base"?
DAOC which 50% of the game is "forced" as you put it , still going strong ...
Bad example again, in DAoC you aren't forced into PvP and you can level 100% with PvE. And that's not FFA PvP with full looting either.
Albion has a strong player pop ..
You mean "had"? And Albion only had full loot in specific red zones.
Lineage still supports a giant player community
Asian players. And it's also not full loot.
Most of the examples you cited are actually proving my point. Those games work because they have severe restrictions on PvP (or no forced PvP at all) and no full loot either.
Soo what game are we talking about here that has Full/Loot Forced pvp zero safe areas , does it even exist ....
Worlds Adrift comes to mind, Darkfall in some of its now closed iterations.
Both have safe areas
The game soem talk about has never existed and does not exist
Worlds Adsrift has starter isle , and is in EA , we dont know what it will have at full launch , so really not applicable .. And there community is already requesting T1 safe areas to build and learn in and secure storage , Im certain some version will be implemented by retail..
In regard to Worlds Adrift ... from the dev ..
"The good news, as it were, is that Bossa isn't anywhere near done adding content to the game and one of the upcoming features of alliance territory control includes the ability for the controlling alliance to switch off weapons. This will create player controlled safe(r) zones where we'll get to try out all the issues that come up when pistols, cannons and swivels don't work. "
Darkfall , all towns were safe
As is often the case in discussions on these forums, you are being unnecessarily literal.
A few safe towns where normally no progression can take place or level caps that prevent PVP until exceeded don't disqualify a title from being classified as FFA PVP.
So your example is Darkfall then .. Thats it .. all this over Darkfall , its not worth it , and its downfall was no stat caps ..
And as is often the case people are being intentionally obtuse or ignorant of the ACTUAL rulesets in these games.. And no , its not unnecessarily literal , the game provides Safe areas , the are promoted/used/and developed as such .. Crafting /Training/Recruitment /Dueling for Practice/Practice Dummies for skill .. All happen in these towns ... so Literally you are safe to progress in several ways ..
And ill ask again , why the fuck do people care so much to come into every thread with the same regurgitated rhetoric and agenda ,
How about .. If you dont like the ruleset a game is being developed for , Go play one of the hundreds of Casual PVE games that are availble to you ..
I wonder why US culture is against PvP while others seem to accept loss.
My ideal MMORPG would be more localized and large. Players can get what they need in adventure and crafting locally. Size makes griefing harder because you have to look for victims. If you die you must travel back. Better to just fight rivals.
Lastly, PvP should include imprisonment upon defeat so the victim can reclaim time. NPC bounty hunters can be hired to capture and imprison killers as well.
I know might makes right simply does not work for western audiences. Without repercussions killers go on killing because its too much work to protect folks when the killers return right back.
For the record and to no ones surprise I am sure, I bought the game. I was curious and like to support indies who have an actual product I can play rather than just ideas on paper. The community though small is very friendly and helpful. The game is like playing a game from 15 to 20 years ago. The good and the bad of that reality. I have not been killed yet (by a player) and landed myself in a very active and populated guild. The game does have a charm to it I have to admit. The crafting is basic. Combat is responsive but again basic. Character customization is very basic. Yet I will keep playing it. For $10 it is not too bad if you like old old school mmorpgs. I think I spent half my time picking berries and and fishing until getting killed by 5 giant crabs. All and all old basic and not half bad for what it is I guess.
I was considering , but on the shelf as lack of time , but im going to buy it and jump in abit to support them also
I wonder why US culture is against PvP while others seem to accept loss.
My ideal MMORPG would be more localized and large. Players can get what they need in adventure and crafting locally. Size makes griefing harder because you have to look for victims. If you die you must travel back. Better to just fight rivals.
Lastly, PvP should include imprisonment upon defeat so the victim can reclaim time. NPC bounty hunters can be hired to capture and imprison killers as well.
I know might makes right simply does not work for western audiences. Without repercussions killers go on killing because its too much work to protect folks when the killers return right back.
Open world PvP is riddled with issues, but I am not against a MMO or two giving it a go. Even better they may have systems which solve the issues, but I won't be holding my breath on that one. When it launches we will have some idea of what they will be actually trying to do, until then it is guesswork.
And in addition to why do you care so much , they are not enough Casual PVE game out there for you ....
I will only answer this because the rest has been addressed several times and it's pointless to continue. You can argue with people having different opinions, but not with people not willing to acknowledge facts.
So to address that specific point of your post:
How many good sandbox games WITHOUT forced PvP are there "out there" for us who aren't into the full loot FFA gankfest stuff? Those indie developers don't seem to learn and keep on creating niche of the niche sandbox games which fail one after the other, ignoring the huge gap wide open for such a sandbox game without forced permanent PvP.
Lmfao, the same can be said of your arguements .. wtf .. and i presented all facts .. You on the other end have not , The game that gives you such horror does not exist there is no FFA PVP FULL LOOT game with no safe areas .. Tell which game currently has that rule set
And again this developer is making a game by the ruleset that they envision so look elsewhere if you dont like it ..
Or make your own game as i saw you give the same advice to someone else in an ESO thread , and on top of that i seem to recall you arguieng that ESO is a sandbox , so if you stand by that , ..
you have your game right ........dont you ? ..... or not?
And you right it is pointless as you have not made a single point that has not been debunked
Cmon Jean -Luc , "nobody" is quite a reach and not necessary to make your point ...
But .. Eve still has a solid player base
With most players almost never leaving high security (source: the developers).
UO .. after 20 years still has a dedicated and active base
Thanks to Trammel, 100% PvE world, where most of the players are.
Mortal Online thru all its trials has managed to stabilize and keep a good base
You're kidding here, right? Good base? Or did you mean "ghost base"?
DAOC which 50% of the game is "forced" as you put it , still going strong ...
Bad example again, in DAoC you aren't forced into PvP and you can level 100% with PvE. And that's not FFA PvP with full looting either.
Albion has a strong player pop ..
You mean "had"? And Albion only had full loot in specific red zones.
Lineage still supports a giant player community
Asian players. And it's also not full loot.
Most of the examples you cited are actually proving my point. Those games work because they have severe restrictions on PvP (or no forced PvP at all) and no full loot either.
Soo what game are we talking about here that has Full/Loot Forced pvp zero safe areas , does it even exist ....
Worlds Adrift comes to mind, Darkfall in some of its now closed iterations.
Both have safe areas
The game soem talk about has never existed and does not exist
Worlds Adsrift has starter isle , and is in EA , we dont know what it will have at full launch , so really not applicable .. And there community is already requesting T1 safe areas to build and learn in and secure storage , Im certain some version will be implemented by retail..
In regard to Worlds Adrift ... from the dev ..
"The good news, as it were, is that Bossa isn't anywhere near done adding content to the game and one of the upcoming features of alliance territory control includes the ability for the controlling alliance to switch off weapons. This will create player controlled safe(r) zones where we'll get to try out all the issues that come up when pistols, cannons and swivels don't work. "
Darkfall , all towns were safe
As is often the case in discussions on these forums, you are being unnecessarily literal.
A few safe towns where normally no progression can take place or level caps that prevent PVP until exceeded don't disqualify a title from being classified as FFA PVP.
So your example is Darkfall then .. Thats it .. all this over Darkfall , its not worth it , and its downfall was no stat caps ..
And as is often the case people are being intentionally obtuse or ignorant of the ACTUAL rulesets in these games.. And no , its not unnecessarily literal , the game provides Safe areas , the are promoted/used/and developed as such .. Crafting /Training/Recruitment /Dueling for Practice/Practice Dummies for skill .. All happen in these towns ... so Literally you are safe to progress in several ways ..
And ill ask again , why the fuck do people care so much to come into every thread with the same regurgitated rhetoric and agenda ,
How about .. If you dont like the ruleset a game is being developed for , Go play one of the hundreds of Casual PVE games that are availble to you ..
Do realize I've spent a majority of my MMORPG time on PVP servers or FFA PVP servers across many games including L1, L2, DAOC, ShadowBane, WOW, EVE, Aion, Vanguard, AOC, Albion Online, ArcheAge, ROM, and some I've forgotten.
How about you go find some MOBA or something and leave the design of a proper PVP MMORPG to the "experts."
Maybe one will eventually get popular for a change.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Cmon Jean -Luc , "nobody" is quite a reach and not necessary to make your point ...
But .. Eve still has a solid player base
With most players almost never leaving high security (source: the developers).
UO .. after 20 years still has a dedicated and active base
Thanks to Trammel, 100% PvE world, where most of the players are.
Mortal Online thru all its trials has managed to stabilize and keep a good base
You're kidding here, right? Good base? Or did you mean "ghost base"?
DAOC which 50% of the game is "forced" as you put it , still going strong ...
Bad example again, in DAoC you aren't forced into PvP and you can level 100% with PvE. And that's not FFA PvP with full looting either.
Albion has a strong player pop ..
You mean "had"? And Albion only had full loot in specific red zones.
Lineage still supports a giant player community
Asian players. And it's also not full loot.
Most of the examples you cited are actually proving my point. Those games work because they have severe restrictions on PvP (or no forced PvP at all) and no full loot either.
Soo what game are we talking about here that has Full/Loot Forced pvp zero safe areas , does it even exist ....
Worlds Adrift comes to mind, Darkfall in some of its now closed iterations.
Both have safe areas
The game soem talk about has never existed and does not exist
Worlds Adsrift has starter isle , and is in EA , we dont know what it will have at full launch , so really not applicable .. And there community is already requesting T1 safe areas to build and learn in and secure storage , Im certain some version will be implemented by retail..
In regard to Worlds Adrift ... from the dev ..
"The good news, as it were, is that Bossa isn't anywhere near done adding content to the game and one of the upcoming features of alliance territory control includes the ability for the controlling alliance to switch off weapons. This will create player controlled safe(r) zones where we'll get to try out all the issues that come up when pistols, cannons and swivels don't work. "
Darkfall , all towns were safe
As is often the case in discussions on these forums, you are being unnecessarily literal.
A few safe towns where normally no progression can take place or level caps that prevent PVP until exceeded don't disqualify a title from being classified as FFA PVP.
So your example is Darkfall then .. Thats it .. all this over Darkfall , its not worth it , and its downfall was no stat caps ..
And as is often the case people are being intentionally obtuse or ignorant of the ACTUAL rulesets in these games.. And no , its not unnecessarily literal , the game provides Safe areas , the are promoted/used/and developed as such .. Crafting /Training/Recruitment /Dueling for Practice/Practice Dummies for skill .. All happen in these towns ... so Literally you are safe to progress in several ways ..
And ill ask again , why the fuck do people care so much to come into every thread with the same regurgitated rhetoric and agenda ,
How about .. If you dont like the ruleset a game is being developed for , Go play one of the hundreds of Casual PVE games that are availble to you ..
Do realize I've spent a majority of my MMORPG time on PVP servers or FFA PVP servers across many games including L1, L2, DAOC, ShadowBane, WOW, EVE, Aion, Vanguard, AOC, Albion Online, ArcheAge, ROM, and some I've forgotten.
How about you go find some MOBA or something and leave the design of a proper PVP MMORPG to the "experts."
Maybe one will eventually get popular for a change.
Do realize me to , and still do today , and realize i am still waiting for one of you to point to the game that is FFA-PVP-FULLLOOT-no SAFE AREAS that is the topic of some frustration and nightmares ...that is the discussion here ..
And the irony is that none of the games you listed fit the description of the imginary rule-set that has caused so much hurt ... And yes i played them also.. And am heavily invested in more than one
Do realize I've spent a majority of my MMORPG time on PVP servers or FFA PVP servers across many games including L1, L2, DAOC, ShadowBane, WOW, EVE, Aion, Vanguard, AOC, Albion Online, ArcheAge, ROM, and some I've forgotten.
How about you go find some MOBA or something and leave the design of a proper PVP MMORPG to the "experts."
Maybe one will eventually get popular for a change.
Same here, I played more MMORPG on PvP servers than I can remember, notably those you've listed.
But when a poster starts to resort on nitpicking, denying facts, making up facts and making you say things you've never said, it's better to stop answering his posts, it never ends well
Pot meet Kettle ...
Still Waiting .. Point to the current MMORPG that has FFA-PVP_Full LOOT with NO SAFE AREAS..
Good you have no answer...( but we knew that didnt we), now that we established that the imaginary rule-set that troubles you so much , does not exist ....
We can move onto discussing Gran Skrea online potential and ruleset and the direction it can or should go .. If you are done derailing the thread with your imginary rule set..
They unlocked the PVP today , it seems to need alot of work as portals are not working correctly and Map is not marking SAFe Areas,( Safe AReas Huh imagine that) for players correctly ... There is no looting at this time .
I would like to see a partial loot system implemented , 1 Equiped item and a couple bag items ..
The Guards and Bounty system need work also , as easily exploitable at this time ,
This game is in EA alpha stages , any input would be welcome by the Devs
I have a wait and see attitude, lets see if that's what it is like when it launches.
I have a "prove me wrong for the first time" attitude. No more chances for these projects. If the production quality is that low does anyone really think they've got a handle on the gankfest beast? If anything, they're like Albion and believe that's an integral part to a sandbox. Games with developers that have such limited vision can die for all I care. Steam is filled with mediocre rubbish like this.
I think that is way to harsh and is Steam filled with these sorts of games? If so fair enough we don't need them to fill a niche, but I am talking about open world pvp MMORPGs?
The reason I tend to give projects like this a pass until launch is that I am not invested in them in any way, and my advice to anyone would be to do the same. But games can change a lot by launch (one of the reasons I don't follow developing games) so give I give them a fair shot.
Wouldnt you be interested in how the PvP is regulated before you write the game off?
Is the inclusion of this feature enough for you to make an educated decision?
Real world is also full loot PvP and I until now, you have not been killed and looted.
Yeah, but in real life full loot PVP is mostly restricted to "battlegrounds" which I was fortunate enough to avoid.
Also in real life there are some pretty severe penalties for unsanctioned "ganking" including permadeath, unfortunately for both protagonists and their victims.
Finally, real life "permits" me to "carry" around equalizing "tools" which make the combat much more fair than in found in most games.
I do agree however, in games I regularly play PVP centric MMOs if they have a system in place that well enables me to control my level of risk, so the existence of FFA and full loot aren't automatic disqualifiers.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's obvious today most gamers (mmo players) are not looking for a "sandbox". There hasn't been a successful sandbox launched in years. For those thinking I'm wrong please list the last successful sandbox mmo to launch.
I think many would like to play a good PVE sandbox, look at how many that play Conan Exiles and Citadel and similar games on private servers without PvP. A decent sandbox without PvP would be a success if nothing else due to lack of competition.
The fact they excluded Windows 10 from the requirements doesn't bode well, very likely this game has been very long in development and isn't likely to reach a "fully launched" state any time before say.....2021.
Why should Windows 10 be a requirement? There are still quite a few gamer types running windows 7 (pro) who have avoided "upgrading" to 10.
It's obvious today most gamers (mmo players) are not looking for a "sandbox". There hasn't been a successful sandbox launched in years. For those thinking I'm wrong please list the last successful sandbox mmo to launch.
Or list all sandbox MMOs in last 15 years that doesn't have FFA PvP.
I don't know about "the most gamers" but many of them have waited a good sandbox MMO that makes sense in terms of game mechanics and rules. Just like in real world you don't kill people around you on a whim, the same should also be true in sandbox MMO (or all MMOs for that matter).
It's obvious today most gamers (mmo players) are not looking for a "sandbox". There hasn't been a successful sandbox launched in years. For those thinking I'm wrong please list the last successful sandbox mmo to launch.
Or list all sandbox MMOs in last 15 years that doesn't have FFA PvP.
I don't know about "the most gamers" but many of them have waited a good sandbox MMO that makes sense in terms of game mechanics and rules. Just like in real world you don't kill people around you on a whim, the same should also be true in sandbox MMO (or all MMOs for that matter).
A day does not go by without me wishing for an apocalyptic event, after which I could go sneaking around the city ruins with my machete and loot bag.
It's obvious today most gamers (mmo players) are not looking for a "sandbox". There hasn't been a successful sandbox launched in years. For those thinking I'm wrong please list the last successful sandbox mmo to launch.
Or list all sandbox MMOs in last 15 years that doesn't have FFA PvP.
I don't know about "the most gamers" but many of them have waited a good sandbox MMO that makes sense in terms of game mechanics and rules. Just like in real world you don't kill people around you on a whim, the same should also be true in sandbox MMO (or all MMOs for that matter).
A day does not go by without me wishing for an apocalyptic event, after which I could go sneaking around the city ruins with my machete and loot bag.
Damn... are you that guy ???
I was thinking of the Machete films when I chose that as a weapon.
Scorchien said: Soo what game are we talking about here that has Full/Loot Forced pvp zero safe areas
The only person who is talking about "Full/Loot Forced pvp zero safe areas" is you, nobody else said anything about "zero safe zones", until you posted it.
Why be so argumentative about something that you introduced to the topic?
It is a funny world we live in. We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
Scorchien said: Soo what game are we talking about here that has Full/Loot Forced pvp zero safe areas
The only person who is talking about "Full/Loot Forced pvp zero safe areas" is you, nobody else said anything about "zero safe zones", until you posted it.
Why be so argumentative about something that you introduced to the topic?
you did not read properly , the topic of safe areas was mentioned refernincing more than one game in the thread .. But go figure
But .. ill ask again , which of these Full Loot PVP games on the market have terrified some of you so badly that you need to come into every thread with same tired and regurgitated agenda ..
Why do you care, go play your Casual game is that what you want , there are plenty of them ..
I play both types , but i dont go into every single new Casual game forums crying , i Want full loot PVP ..
Wouldnt you be interested in how the PvP is regulated before you write the game off?
Is the inclusion of this feature enough for you to make an educated decision?
Real world is also full loot PvP and I until now, you have not been killed and looted.
Yeah, but in real life full loot PVP is mostly restricted to "battlegrounds" which I was fortunate enough to avoid.
Also in real life there are some pretty severe penalties for unsanctioned "ganking" including permadeath, unfortunately for both protagonists and their victims.
Finally, real life "permits" me to "carry" around equalizing "tools" which make the combat much more fair than in found in most games.
I do agree however, in games I regularly play PVP centric MMOs if they have a system in place that well enables me to control my level of risk, so the existence of FFA and full loot aren't automatic disqualifiers.
In real life, full loot PVP is, in theory, not restricted at all. I can kill and full loot the first person I meet in the morning.
Why PVP is not happening frequently despite the fact that there are literally no safe zones at all is because of the regulatory mechanisms in place which is why I was raising the point in the first place.
Why would anyone write off a game because of inclusion of FFA full loot PVP before they get to know the regulatory mechanisms.
They may find out that whenever someone kills anyone in the world, their character gets immediately, automatically and permanently deleted. I dont think a game with this sort of regulatory mechanism would be affected by FFA full loot PVP to any notable extent.
I am mostly talking on a theoretical level and I do not expect that this game would introduce very effective PVP regulation, but the close-mindedness of the people who freak out when they hear FFA PVP is something I cannot understand.
Have so many people been ganked so much that they go into shock when they hear FFA PVP or what.
I have been a PVE player in OWPVP MMORPGs for decades and I have never been so harmed by anyone that I would start hating PVP. In my latest FFA PVP MMORPG (L2 Classic) which I played for 2 years, I was PKed probably 2-3 times during that whole time.
Or is it because of the lack of adherence to the MMO/RPG definition, so that we are now getting survival games like Rust into the mix where ganking and abusing is so common?
I write off a full loot PvP game in every case without checking the requirements or restrictions simply because I have no interest in that type of gameplay.
Comments
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
My ideal MMORPG would be more localized and large. Players can get what they need in adventure and crafting locally. Size makes griefing harder because you have to look for victims. If you die you must travel back. Better to just fight rivals.
Lastly, PvP should include imprisonment upon defeat so the victim can reclaim time. NPC bounty hunters can be hired to capture and imprison killers as well.
I know might makes right simply does not work for western audiences. Without repercussions killers go on killing because its too much work to protect folks when the killers return right back.
How about you go find some MOBA or something and leave the design of a proper PVP MMORPG to the "experts."
Maybe one will eventually get popular for a change.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The reason I tend to give projects like this a pass until launch is that I am not invested in them in any way, and my advice to anyone would be to do the same. But games can change a lot by launch (one of the reasons I don't follow developing games) so give I give them a fair shot.
Also in real life there are some pretty severe penalties for unsanctioned "ganking" including permadeath, unfortunately for both protagonists and their victims.
Finally, real life "permits" me to "carry" around equalizing "tools" which make the combat much more fair than in found in most games.
I do agree however, in games I regularly play PVP centric MMOs if they have a system in place that well enables me to control my level of risk, so the existence of FFA and full loot aren't automatic disqualifiers.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
I don't know about "the most gamers" but many of them have waited a good sandbox MMO that makes sense in terms of game mechanics and rules. Just like in real world you don't kill people around you on a whim, the same should also be true in sandbox MMO (or all MMOs for that matter).
Why be so argumentative about something that you introduced to the topic?
We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...