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System for son, need some help

MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,710
I was thinking about purchasing this for my son: $589.97

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147184&ignorebbr=1

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151201&ignorebbr=1

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231829&ignorebbr=1

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103236&ignorebbr=1

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814930003&ignorebbr=1

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3754774

I have a mouse\Keyboard\Monitor\Hard Drive for him.
Not sure if I can get the cost down some.  I would rather be about $500 before Windows 10.  I have not ran the idea past the wife yet and having a price tag under 500 seems like it would make it an easier sell.

I might be able to save some money by using the stock cooler.  Just not sure if it is worth it, as I have not used a stock cooler (well ever).

I know someone will ask what he will use it for.  He is just getting into gaming.  Things like fortnight, and city building or tycoon type games.  What he is using now is not fast enough to play most modern games. I picked up a couple of all in one with touch screens really cheap for the kids to us.  They are basically toasters when it comes to gaming.  They are good for homework, browser games, or streaming though.    My younger kids love them. 

What are you thoughts.  Can I use the stock cooler? Can I cut another $90?  I would like the PC to be stable and last 5-7 years, even if he has to do some small upgrades.

Thanks in advance. 

“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

--John Ruskin







Comments

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,700
    edited June 2018
    You can use Ryzen with a stock cooler.

    You can also use much cheaper PSU. This EVGA's 500W PSU is $20 after rebates and it does the job well enough:
       https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1001257-REG/evga_100_b1_0500_kr_500w_80plus_bronze_power.html 
      EDIT: Here's also Newegg link to same PSU:
       https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438012&cm_re=evga_500-_-17-438-012-_-Product


    But if you want the computer to be good for gaming I'd recommend spending the money you save to purchase a faster GPU, something like GTX 1060:
      https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125906&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker, LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=

    It costs about $100 extra, but it's also twice as fast as RX 560
       http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1060-3GB-vs-AMD-RX-560/3646vs3926
     
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,146
    edited June 2018
    560 isn't a bad card. I like the Seasonic PSU, I think that would be a good investment. This linked one may be more appropriate for this build though:

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094&cm_re=Seasonic_PSU-_-17-151-094-_-Product

    Saves you about $30 right there, and you keep Seasonic quality. I have probably 4 computers running with that same PSU.

    Another thought, try this out.

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA65C7MS4947&cm_re=Ryzen_2400G-_-19-113-480-_-Product

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145056&cm_re=Gigabyte_AM4-_-13-145-056-_-Product

    Swap out your motherboard/CPU combo for this, drop the 560 (it would be a bit faster, but working with the budget). Drops $120, nearly equal gaming performance.

    Both those together, that's $150 right there.


  • Zeppel80Zeppel80 Member UncommonPosts: 74
    There's no need whatsoever for a 750W PSU, the power requirement for a GTX 1060 is only 400W. 
      
    If you go with the AMD CPU, you can definitely use the stock cooler, no problem.
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,700
    If you want to get the computer at $500, you might also consider looking at used computers. Something like this:
       https://www.ebay.com/itm/GTX-970-I5-4690k-3-5GHz-16-GB-DDR3-MSI-Z97-250-GB-SSD-Windows-7-Computer/302779798084?hash=item467f151244:g:wT8AAOSwVEdbLDAq

    I'm not from USA and don't know your used computer market very well, I just did a quick Ebay search. But I think if you search for it you could find a complete PC that's better than what you're trying to build at $500.
     
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,710
    Ridelynn said:
    560 isn't a bad card. I like the Seasonic PSU, I think that would be a good investment. This linked one may be more appropriate for this build though:

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094&cm_re=Seasonic_PSU-_-17-151-094-_-Product

    Saves you about $30 right there, and you keep Seasonic quality. I have probably 4 computers running with that same PSU.

    Another thought, try this out.

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA65C7MS4947&cm_re=Ryzen_2400G-_-19-113-480-_-Product

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145056&cm_re=Gigabyte_AM4-_-13-145-056-_-Product

    Swap out your motherboard/CPU combo for this, drop the 560 (it would be a bit faster, but working with the budget). Drops $120, nearly equal gaming performance.

    Both those together, that's $150 right there.


    Switching out the PSU and going with the stock cooler gets me $70.  You really thing I can get the same performance without 560?  I am kind of surprised by that.  GDDR5 is extremely effective and I would think that those benefits alone would blow a integrated chip away. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,710
    Vrika said:
    If you want to get the computer at $500, you might also consider looking at used computers. Something like this:
       https://www.ebay.com/itm/GTX-970-I5-4690k-3-5GHz-16-GB-DDR3-MSI-Z97-250-GB-SSD-Windows-7-Computer/302779798084?hash=item467f151244:g:wT8AAOSwVEdbLDAq

    I'm not from USA and don't know your used computer market very well, I just did a quick Ebay search. But I think if you search for it you could find a complete PC that's better than what you're trying to build at $500.
    I am not really interested in a used PC.  I want to get some time out if it, and the risk reward does not seem proportionate to me. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • Zeppel80Zeppel80 Member UncommonPosts: 74
    Getting a used PC is definitely risky, you never know what comes "pre-loaded" on it. I had a friend; really a friend, not me; that got himself a visit from the FBI that way.
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,700
    edited June 2018
    MMOman101 said:
    Vrika said:
    If you want to get the computer at $500, you might also consider looking at used computers. Something like this:
       https://www.ebay.com/itm/GTX-970-I5-4690k-3-5GHz-16-GB-DDR3-MSI-Z97-250-GB-SSD-Windows-7-Computer/302779798084?hash=item467f151244:g:wT8AAOSwVEdbLDAq

    I'm not from USA and don't know your used computer market very well, I just did a quick Ebay search. But I think if you search for it you could find a complete PC that's better than what you're trying to build at $500.
    I am not really interested in a used PC.  I want to get some time out if it, and the risk reward does not seem proportionate to me. 
    If you buy a PC at $500 you're not going to get much time out of it anyway. If we take a modern game like Final Fantasy XV or Destiny 2 your new computer is going to below recommended system specifications for those.

    Source for system requirements:
     https://store.steampowered.com/app/637650/FINAL_FANTASY_XV_WINDOWS_EDITION/
     https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/109713

    Have you considered purchasing a console?
    Ozmodan
     
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,710
    Vrika said:
    MMOman101 said:
    Vrika said:
    If you want to get the computer at $500, you might also consider looking at used computers. Something like this:
       https://www.ebay.com/itm/GTX-970-I5-4690k-3-5GHz-16-GB-DDR3-MSI-Z97-250-GB-SSD-Windows-7-Computer/302779798084?hash=item467f151244:g:wT8AAOSwVEdbLDAq

    I'm not from USA and don't know your used computer market very well, I just did a quick Ebay search. But I think if you search for it you could find a complete PC that's better than what you're trying to build at $500.
    I am not really interested in a used PC.  I want to get some time out if it, and the risk reward does not seem proportionate to me. 
    If you buy a PC at $500 you're not going to get much time out of it anyway. If we take a modern game like Final Fantasy XV or Destiny 2 your new computer is going to below recommended system specifications for those.

    Source for system requirements:
     https://store.steampowered.com/app/637650/FINAL_FANTASY_XV_WINDOWS_EDITION/
     https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/109713

    Have you considered purchasing a console?
    We have a console. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,146
    edited June 2018
    MMOman101 said:
    Ridelynn said:
    560 isn't a bad card. 

    Switching out the PSU and going with the stock cooler gets me $70.  You really thing I can get the same performance without 560?  I am kind of surprised by that.  GDDR5 is extremely effective and I would think that those benefits alone would blow a integrated chip away. 
    Oh the 560 is better than the iGPU in the 2400G, I won't deny that. On a budget though, it's a matter of what's good enough, not necessarily what's better.

    The 560 is either 14 or 16 "compute units", depending on which variation you get. The 2400G is only 11, so there's going to be a speed difference just from that alone. And you are right, the memory difference will come into play as well. From what I've seen - the 560 is about 50% faster, on average... which kinda makes sense given all the tech specs.

    The 2400G blows away anything from Intel though, and keeps up with the lower end nVidia parts (1030). My son is currently playing on i5 Haswell integrated graphics. It works at 1080p, but only with pretty much everything set to low. For him, he plays mostly Roblox and Farming Simulator, it's good enough. He hasn't complained about it being too slow or not enough detail, and he doesn't try to play his games on my computer instead when he could.

    If you can afford more GPU, but all means, please do - it's the single best way to get better gaming performance. It's just a matter of what you want to afford. $120 is a good chunk of the budget right now, it's just an option. And you can still always add another GPU later on.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,664
    You really don't need a 750 W power supply.  Somewhere around 550 W is plenty.

    The EVGA power supply that someone linked above is cheaper for a reason.  It probably won't fry anything if you use it, but it's not nearly as good as the Seasonic that you initially chose.

    You don't a liquid cooler for your CPU in a budget system.  AMD's stock coolers will work fine.

    The integrated GPU in the Ryzen 5 2400G that Ridelynn linked isn't nearly as fast as the discrete Radeon RX 560 that you originally chose.  But it's still about twice as fast as the best integrated GPU that came before it, so it's not exactly slow, either.  If you're really trying to bring down the budget, then that's the sort of sacrifice that you make.

    If you do go with an integrated GPU, then pay a little extra for higher clocked memory--at least 2666 MHz.  That makes a big difference for gaming on an integrated GPU.  Even if you go with an integrated GPU initially, you could add a discrete card as an upgrade later if so inclined.
    Ozmodan
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,710
    One of the games he recurrently wanted to play but it would not have worked is Planet Coaster.

    This is the recommended:

    • Processor: Intel i7-4770/AMD FX-8350
    • Memory: 12 GB RAM
    • Graphics: nVidia GTX 980 (4GB)/AMD R9 380 (4GB)
    I think what I have originally listed will work and if I drop the cooler and get the cheaper power supply I am at ~510.  So close enough.  If I go with the integrated graphics and the other changes I am under 400.

    Honestly that price kind of scares me. 

    If you have integrated graphics and a discrete graphics card will they supplement each other or will it be a complete waste. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    edited June 2018
    MMOman101 said:
    One of the games he recurrently wanted to play but it would not have worked is Planet Coaster.

    This is the recommended:

    • Processor: Intel i7-4770/AMD FX-8350
    • Memory: 12 GB RAM
    • Graphics: nVidia GTX 980 (4GB)/AMD R9 380 (4GB)
    I think what I have originally listed will work and if I drop the cooler and get the cheaper power supply I am at ~510.  So close enough.  If I go with the integrated graphics and the other changes I am under 400.

    Honestly that price kind of scares me. 

    If you have integrated graphics and a discrete graphics card will they supplement each other or will it be a complete waste. 
    If you have integrated graphics and a graphics card you can use either or, but not both at the same time.

    Planet Coaster will run fine on either configuration above, just not at high settings.
  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,297
    edited June 2018
    You used to be able to use both on AMD systems if they were close enough to each other in performance, but the RX 560 quite a bit better. There is a secondary advantage for Raven Ridge CPUs, they don't have 2 core complexes so their latency is better than other Ryzen CPUs.
    You are probably going to have difficulty meeting those specs under $500. A 4/8 core CPU, 12 GB ram, and a 1 generation old high end GPU with current DRAM prices. If I spec it out, CPU and Mobo are $200 for the cheapest 4/8 core 3.4ghz+ CPU. 16 GB Ram at $130. Case and PSU at $80. GPU at $300. The DRAM prices just screw everything up. $430 for GPU and Memory would have been $250 a couple years ago. You might be able to do it with an FX 8350 build, but to recommend something like that today is not something I would do.
    Post edited by Cleffy on
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,700
    MMOman101 said:

    If you have integrated graphics and a discrete graphics card will they supplement each other or will it be a complete waste. 
    It will be complete waste, but the integrated graphic card doesn't cost that much extra.

    MMOman101 said:

    This is the recommended:

    • Processor: Intel i7-4770/AMD FX-8350
    • Memory: 12 GB RAM
    • Graphics: nVidia GTX 980 (4GB)/AMD R9 380 (4GB)
    I think what I have originally listed will work and if I drop the cooler and get the cheaper power supply I am at ~510.  So close enough. 
    Your processor matches the recommended, but you've got less memory and less GPU performance than recommended. That R9 380 is about 50% faster than RX 560, or about twice as fast as the integrated GPU you're considering.

    Looking at minimum requirements the game will run with RX 560. With that integrated GPU you'd be below minimum requirements in RAM. The game would likely still run as long as you don't want to build anything big.
     
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