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How it works. Starting and ending with WoW

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  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,757
    Flyte27 said:
    Kyleran said:
    mmolou said:

    Let's analyze World of Warcraft: 
    Vanilla World of Warcraft, first of fun loving easy going second generation mmorpg's.  
    EQ2 released before WoW, so EQ2 should be classed as the first "second generation" MMORPG if any of them should.
    LOL, shoved out the door like 3 weeks before WOW in a desperate attempt to garner an audience before being steam rolled by Blizzard's behemoth.

    At launch EQ2 was far more like it's predecessor and SOE tried to keep up by adopting more and more WOW features as most other games would come to do in the years to come.

    Besides, some would argue Asherons Call 2 was the first real quest driven MMORPG which both EQ2 and WOW would emulate.
    I don't entirely agree with that.  I played both games and felt that WoW actually was more similar in gameplay to EQ1 and that's part of why I chose to switch to it. 

    Sure EQ2 was more difficult in terms of mob positioning and having lots of group content, but in terms of actual gameplay, WoW was more like EQ1. 

    For instance, in EQ2 were locked into a fight and had to allow someone to assist you by typing something.  They couldn't just help.  They couldn't even attack the mob.  The buffs like Spirit of the Wolf dropped in combat.  Neither of these was true in WoW. 

    WoW also just felt very EQish in terms of moving around and targetting things.  In its early vanilla days, it had a lot more group content in the open world areas.  

    Aside from being instances the dungeons also felt more EQ1 like in nature.
    EQ2 at release had a lot of "forced grouping" and also badly lacked quests past the 20 first levels. The developers patched in content in a hurry during at least 6 months to try to catch up with WoW, but it was way too late.

    EQ2 "failed" (sort of, facing WoW) because the game was flawed when released.

    And also, you needed a quite beefy computer because the engine sucked donkey ass even by 2004 standards... and please... like 5 different zones with loading screen in a single city... that sucked too.

    EQ2 lost to WoW because it wasn't a very good game, while WoW was one.

    And I don't agree that WoW felt more "EQish" than EQ2. I wouldn't have played it otherwise. EQ2 had all the EQ flaws at release, including the engine and massive amount zoning. In WoW, there wasn't any "forced grouping" not even in 2004.
    My Everquest 2 Monk had epilepsy, 

    I was afraid to hit the next ability, because I MAY have a seizure just watching it !!!!  
    Kyleran
  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Flyte27 said:
    Kyleran said:
    mmolou said:

    Let's analyze World of Warcraft: 
    Vanilla World of Warcraft, first of fun loving easy going second generation mmorpg's.  
    EQ2 released before WoW, so EQ2 should be classed as the first "second generation" MMORPG if any of them should.
    LOL, shoved out the door like 3 weeks before WOW in a desperate attempt to garner an audience before being steam rolled by Blizzard's behemoth.

    At launch EQ2 was far more like it's predecessor and SOE tried to keep up by adopting more and more WOW features as most other games would come to do in the years to come.

    Besides, some would argue Asherons Call 2 was the first real quest driven MMORPG which both EQ2 and WOW would emulate.
    I don't entirely agree with that.  I played both games and felt that WoW actually was more similar in gameplay to EQ1 and that's part of why I chose to switch to it. 

    Sure EQ2 was more difficult in terms of mob positioning and having lots of group content, but in terms of actual gameplay, WoW was more like EQ1. 

    For instance, in EQ2 were locked into a fight and had to allow someone to assist you by typing something.  They couldn't just help.  They couldn't even attack the mob.  The buffs like Spirit of the Wolf dropped in combat.  Neither of these was true in WoW. 

    WoW also just felt very EQish in terms of moving around and targetting things.  In its early vanilla days, it had a lot more group content in the open world areas.  

    Aside from being instances the dungeons also felt more EQ1 like in nature.
    EQ2 at release had a lot of "forced grouping" and also badly lacked quests past the 20 first levels. The developers patched in content in a hurry during at least 6 months to try to catch up with WoW, but it was way too late.

    EQ2 "failed" (sort of, facing WoW) because the game was flawed when released.

    And also, you needed a quite beefy computer because the engine sucked donkey ass even by 2004 standards... and please... like 5 different zones with loading screen in a single city... that sucked too.

    EQ2 lost to WoW because it wasn't a very good game, while WoW was one.

    And I don't agree that WoW felt more "EQish" than EQ2. I wouldn't have played it otherwise. EQ2 had all the EQ flaws at release, including the engine and massive amount zoning. In WoW, there wasn't any "forced grouping" not even in 2004.
    While what you said is true I strongly disagree for the reasons I mentioned.  It is funny that you played it because it didn't feel like EQ and I played it because I felt it was more like EQ for the reasons I mentioned.  I know you are not a fan of the original EQ, but there were EQ developers involved in the design and creation of WoW.  While it had no forced grouping and zones the overall gameplay and combat felt far more like EQ than it did in EQ2.  If they were using the same engine it must have been greatly modified as the characters in the game looked far more realistic (less cartoony), moved and interacted with things far differently, buffs didn't work the same way (as I mentioned).  Combat was locked.  Groups of mobs were in ridiculous numbers that couldn't be CCed.  In EQ and WoW you could always break up groups with CC.  There was no buff dropping in combat in EQ or WoW.  The art design was a lot closer though slightly more cartoony in WoW.  EQ was pretty cartoon though.  There were a few small changes to combat from EQ to WoW like being able to heal yourself without having to target yourself first.  Combat was locked unless the person fighting chose to allow you to help them in EQ2.  It was a lot different game than EQ1.  It really didn't feel like EQ1 at all aside from its name and trying to be a more group oriented game.
  • BrunlinBrunlin Member UncommonPosts: 78
    Everquest 2 originally failed not because of forced grouping but because of numerous bugs and the game play wasn't that good. It took a year for them to work thing out and the game became very good, but like you said by this time even though the game was a success (not a fail) it didnt have the success that WOW had. BTW WoW vanilla and EQ 2 was solo friendly but you could get a lot more done with groups, especially in dungeons or harder mini bosses. 

    If at first you don’t succeed, call it version 1.0

  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,802
    Well, EQ2 technically released before WoW, but WoW was the first of its kind in the sense that it proliferated with lighting speed to a huge audience and set the standards for all 'similar-generation' games.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,608
    Blathericious en Extremis.....

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 926
    Akulas said:
    The best MMORPG in the world has a playerbase of 52 with 2 old people trying to figure out what twitch is.
    I highly doubt "old people" care what twitch is.  I don't know if I'm officially old yet, but I'm in my early 40s and I don't know anyone my age remotely interested in watching other people play video games.  We play the fuckers ourselves like all sane people do.
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,884
    blamo2000 said:
    Akulas said:
    The best MMORPG in the world has a playerbase of 52 with 2 old people trying to figure out what twitch is.
    I highly doubt "old people" care what twitch is.  I don't know if I'm officially old yet, but I'm in my early 40s and I don't know anyone my age remotely interested in watching other people play video games.  We play the fuckers ourselves like all sane people do.
    Seeing as I get seniors discounts at many places i definitely qualify as older.

    I know what Twitch is, just have no use for it. What do I care what other random people have to say?

    Agree that I can't see any reason to watch people play games, (I don't watch sports either) as that is time better spent playing games myself. (Or going for a run or doing some yardwork even)
    blamo2000

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,434
    People try to analyze the WHY,how come,what now etc etc,i simply look for a game i feel is really well done AND i want to play it.

    I sneezed past Wow whilst trying out EQ2,w/o even a second glance i thought EQ2 was a much better game.Why so many others rushed into Wow,tons of reasons,most opinions are likely correct in some fashion or another.
    I have my own opinions as do others and imo Wow was NEVER very good,not in the vanilla phase or now.That why i never wanted to play it,i only played it off/on because of some friends but not because i liked the game.
    IMO FFXI is at the top of the heap,nothing since 2002 has made an OVERALL complete better game,some do some things better but not an entire game,matter of fact most games now are all LESS than a complete game.

    Let's decipher the two BIGGEST..
    1 Wow still has no housing...sigh,seriously a ROLE playing game but players don't live anywhere,yeah ..sigh.
    2 SC the biggest crowd funded game ever and by a long shot,still no game and nothing yet looks even remotely worth buying into.
    Pretty simple math,if the two biggest money makers can't do the genre any good,how can we expect the lesser weights,the devs with a LOT less money?

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,884
    Wizardry said:
    People try to analyze the WHY,how come,what now etc etc,i simply look for a game i feel is really well done AND i want to play it.

    I sneezed past Wow whilst trying out EQ2,w/o even a second glance i thought EQ2 was a much better game.Why so many others rushed into Wow,tons of reasons,most opinions are likely correct in some fashion or another.
    I have my own opinions as do others a).
    2 SC the biggest crowd funded game ever and by a long shot,still no game and nothing yet looks even remotely worth buying into.
    Pretty simple math,if the two biggest money makers can't do the genre any good,how can we expect the lesser weights,the devs with a LOT less money?

    Elven magic of course, what else?

    :)
    blueturtle13

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • 45074507 Member UncommonPosts: 351
    Anyone else crack up when the OP says something was taken away by force?

    It's like saying that glass-bottled Coke was taken away by force and that anyone who likes the plastic-bottled coke is really a closeted Pepsi fan.
    Kyleran
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 926
    Kyleran said:
    blamo2000 said:
    Akulas said:
    The best MMORPG in the world has a playerbase of 52 with 2 old people trying to figure out what twitch is.
    I highly doubt "old people" care what twitch is.  I don't know if I'm officially old yet, but I'm in my early 40s and I don't know anyone my age remotely interested in watching other people play video games.  We play the fuckers ourselves like all sane people do.
    Seeing as I get seniors discounts at many places i definitely qualify as older.

    I know what Twitch is, just have no use for it. What do I care what other random people have to say?

    Agree that I can't see any reason to watch people play games, (I don't watch sports either) as that is time better spent playing games myself. (Or going for a run or doing some yardwork even)
    I agree.  I also understand why people would want to watch professional sports equivalent of people playing competitive video games.  But that is just a tiny small fraction of people watching other people play games.  Plus, actually playing sports is tiring and takes a lot of effort.  Playing a video game isn't and doesn't, and when you add to it the majority of what people are watching is equivalent of watching some idiot playing catch by himself in his backyard it gets more confusing.  

    My son for his birthday wanted three video games - and he hasn't even downloaded them yet.  But he watches the shit out of other people playing them.  
    Kyleran
  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    I am not a fan of housing, but neither EQ1 nor WoW had housing.  EQ2 had a really sad housing that was instanced and everyone went in the same way.  UO housing was interesting because people could steal from the house or steal the deed to the house I believe (it's been a long time).  This lead to people setting up tamed dragon's to guard their houses (sometimes player brought from other players).  It was quite interesting.
  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,461
    Scot said:
    centkin said:
    Scot said:
    WoW, word of mouth... just when I thought I had read it all from that poster comes a new gem.
    btdt said:
    It's so obvious now... the OP is trying to get his orange tag!

    He's repeating the same drivel over and over again just to up his post count.


    Yep, it starts to get a bit spammy with always the same topic worded slightly differently and with some different drivel inserted.

    The race for orange doesn't work too well for this one though... not even a WTF yet. You don't get colors with the post count but with appreciations.
    If this is true once he hits orange he is going to stop telling us about his MMO concerns. Do you really think that is going to happen? :) 

    It could always do like it did with me.  I at one time was a "better" color and it lost my achievements.  It does seem smart enough not to give me the achievements back when I regain them -- so I am probably perpetually green.  I wonder how many people are in my boat.
    I presume you have tried the admins for this one, it sounds a pain.
    I have no real idea what they could do.  It would hardly be worth them going through the thousand posts I made to accurately count up the number of agrees etc and then hard push the achievements just to give me a different colored name.  Yeah I might decide to press the point if color actually meant anything functionality-wise on the site.    I agree that it is a pain though.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,884
    edited June 2018
    Definitely were some things lost when the migrated from commercial Vanilla to the open source version.

    In my case it was about 150 posts, my guess is likely ones that I had received agrees or whatever on that eventually got closed by moderators.

    If not for that I'd be a month or two closer to going "over the top."

    (30K)

    ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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