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I worry about the small guy
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
It's a beautiful Saturday afternoon. A great day for baseball.
Joe grabs his baseball glove and heads for the local field hoping to play ball and make a few friends in his new town.
As he arrives, in comes several Packup trucks and a few cars. They unload a keg of beer, set it all up and automatically head out onto the field to their pre-defined positions.
Joe with full intentions of fitting in approaches this seeming nice guy and ask if he could join in. Nick is his name, Nick is truly a nice guy and has a little conversation with Joe, but he also informs Joe that they're full and they don't have room for him on the team. Joe smiles and watches them play for a while, grabs his glove and goes home.
Pantheon like first generation mmorpg's will be set as a team based game, such as the example above. Many new players like "Joe" will come from all around the world hoping to find a new social niche. On paper Pantheon sounds great. The player will work as a team on a slow dungeon crawl, others will craft weapons and bags for their Guilds.
New players should understand the basics of penetrating the social aspects of such a game. Many will, but I worry about the small guy with good intentions. This type will be a large percentage of the population.
I hope Visionary Realms will have a great feature to help a guy like Joe have a place in the world too, because MOST will NOT have a pre-determined game plan. Thousands will get sucked into the small worthless Guild that yield nothing and constantly searching for something that works..... This is 80% of the population of any mmorpg I've ever played.
I want this to work for everyone
Joe grabs his baseball glove and heads for the local field hoping to play ball and make a few friends in his new town.
As he arrives, in comes several Packup trucks and a few cars. They unload a keg of beer, set it all up and automatically head out onto the field to their pre-defined positions.
Joe with full intentions of fitting in approaches this seeming nice guy and ask if he could join in. Nick is his name, Nick is truly a nice guy and has a little conversation with Joe, but he also informs Joe that they're full and they don't have room for him on the team. Joe smiles and watches them play for a while, grabs his glove and goes home.
Pantheon like first generation mmorpg's will be set as a team based game, such as the example above. Many new players like "Joe" will come from all around the world hoping to find a new social niche. On paper Pantheon sounds great. The player will work as a team on a slow dungeon crawl, others will craft weapons and bags for their Guilds.
New players should understand the basics of penetrating the social aspects of such a game. Many will, but I worry about the small guy with good intentions. This type will be a large percentage of the population.
I hope Visionary Realms will have a great feature to help a guy like Joe have a place in the world too, because MOST will NOT have a pre-determined game plan. Thousands will get sucked into the small worthless Guild that yield nothing and constantly searching for something that works..... This is 80% of the population of any mmorpg I've ever played.
I want this to work for everyone
Comments
When I played BDO, I hardly did any discord, but when they were talking in game stuff they said so in guild chat. I turned on to listen and found out nearly everything I needed to know. It is not a plan, its common sense, get yourself in a guild and the game will flow much, much better.
If so, I don't see that happening too much, but I'm assuming players will be able to throw together pick up groups and so a decent amount of content.
As you said, more challenging high end content will likely be the providence of the well organized group or guild, and finding one always was a key "skill' required for success "back in the day."
Just like combat, players have to learn develop their social skills and make strategic decisions.
Warning: Long story ahead, key point has been made if readers would like to skip to the next post. - Kyle
I recall my character in DAOC was a stealther, with almost zero group utility so leveling was a challenge as few wanted him on that basis.
I learned to reach out to group leaders at popular camping sights and ask to be put on the list. I'd then hunt or craft nearby so when / if the nod finally came I could be there in a few minutes.
I played my Infiltrator well, carefully following instructions so to not do too much burst damage (a class specialty) nearly which would draw too much aggro and lead to my early death.
If I did die, I never blamed anyone, not even it really was someone else's fault for breaking the mezz. (Which I also was careful never to do)
I was always friendly in group chat, praising the rest of the team after a particularly great recovery and when it came time to go I would try and find a replacement if necessary and always give the leader a good 20 minute warning.
Of course, building a network with regular group leaders was important, so after the night I was sure to thank everyone, and if appropriate ask if I could put them on my friends list.
Key was a good list of group leaders, tanks, and healers. Then when I would log in the next time I'd say hello to many of them on a regular basis, have a quick chat about "their" progress and experience recently in game and sometimes, but not always ask if they were in or knew of any groups going on, and if so ask if I could get on the list.
There's even more to it if I wanted to go on regarding how to turn such contacts into guild group invites (much better if you play a key role such as tank, healer, mezzer, speeder) and if you do a really great job as a fill in, eventually you may get invited to be a regular in a group or guild.
I was a great healer at one time and well known during my time zone. I found myself unemployed for a spell, so was logging in early in the morning.
I ran into a Japanese guild / group who spoke very little English, but I did such a great job I was invited back repeatedly and they plunged into dungeon depths I'd never reached before.
Fortunately I found a job soon so I lost touch with my early morning friends....but that's just how it's done when you can't always meet with a pre selected group.
So I'd say don't worry, players will figure it all out, and relearn these 'lost' social skills fairly quickly......or go back to WOW I suppose.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I one time made a post to limit the amount of Guilds. MAN, did I get slammed for that one.
I guess I see your point Kylern,
You can't be your brothers keeper, everyone has to learn on their own.
The shy person may not survive, even if he has intentions to play with others.
HOWEVER, it would be nice to have an extremely good social panel, I had brought this up several times.... I guess I really worry about the small guy.
I also worry about the hundreds of "crap Guilds made by that 10 year old" that players get sucked into. But then I can't fix the world.
You have to admit, every game has many worthless Guilds.
If instead you try to hook up with a group of power gamers who are speed grinding through some zone, that's not likely to work out for you.
Pantheon can't (and won't try to) eliminate the human part of the game. People are going to turn other people down for groups. People are going to remove people from groups. But those moments present learning opportunities. When I played EQ, not everyone wanted my toon in their group. Over time I learned where I was needed, where I would be accepted, and where not. That is just another social part to a social game.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The PUG issue could be offset (at least for awhile) by granting personal bonuses for grouping with players you haven't grouped with before. It would discourage the "I don't know you, so no" response when asking for a group. Not an ideal solution, but workable.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It really is that simple.
The problems I saw even back in EQ were self inflicted. That is, you would have people who would only accept the perfectly balanced group. If they couldn't join or build to that expectation, they would refuse.
I saw it happen many times. They would complain that you didn't have a proper tank class, or healing class, that you didn't have a full group, or that your methods were risky or unconventional, or exp was too slow than what they wanted.
They would complain, then go sit in OOC whining for hours about how there aren't any groups.
My friends and I would accept anyone to join us and we did some crazy crap, took on challenges people thought were impossible with our makeup, but we succeeded (also failed a lot too, but that was the fun).
Fact is, in all the years I played EQ, I never had a hard time finding a group or pulling one together. As I said, it wasn't always Ideal and sometimes we would have to tailor our targets to fit our groups strengths, but I could always get or make a group. My friends could too and it didn't matter what the class was.
So that small guy is going to have to learn to make due with what they have available. They have to accept that they won't always get the "perfect" group and the best camp, but that with a little effort you can always find someone else and a spot where you can make progress.
Where do you think all that "emergent" game play came from in EQ? It was because people figured out how to take what they had and make it work for them.
If someone is sitting around LFG all the time, they aren't interested in finding a group, rather they are just looking for a specific group.
Pantheon is said to be predominantly a group focused game, that puts the party sizes at 6 people. A guild provides a nice means for "in game" congregation and access to other players. Putting in a bunch of hoops, daily crap and conditions doesn't make any sense.
If your concern is that joining a guild might be a dead end venture, then maybe spend a bit of time grouping with that guild before you join them? Honestly, if a guild is fast inviting people, then that is likely a guild to avoid anyway.
There used to be certain process of courtesy in grouping and guild formation. In fact, when I first started playing WoW after moving from EQ, my friends and I used to get irritated by some people who wouldn't say a dang word and would invite you to group or a guild. It was a big no no when I played EQ to do that, and it could get you a bad reputation.
So, it doesn't matter how many guilds there are or how easy it is to make them, it is up to the player to determine if the people they group with are worthy of such. I know for my friends and I, people won't be joining our guild unless they have played with us a while.
I have said it a thousand times >>>FFXI,devs should pay attention to the ONE game that took classes and combat to the next level and NOBODY has improved upon that 2002 design...nobody.
Matter of fact most are designing their classes and combat far worse and in case of Wow whatever they had going on is now even more worse than before,they managed to ruin their game.
Point being do NOT draw influences from Wow or EQ series because ,as i stated FFXI drew from EQ but did it much better.
So i guess i can point at a couple examples?
1 multi class aka sub class system.This creates versatility and a VERY long path to improving your character,gives the game a lot more longevity.
2 SOLO classes,YES it can be done,FFXI did it,so you can have a full on grouping game ALSO with solo classes.
That is all i am going to say,it's be PROVEN ,so if the Pantheon team wants to pay attention and IMPROVE what they know >>AWESOME,if not,then just a repeat of a LESSER design from the EQ1 era.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I will always aim for the better design in each genre,i couldn't care less what developer makes the game or from what era,give me the best game and that is what i will play.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.