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Let's talk about what Fallout 76 is, not what it isn't.

13

Comments

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,287
    Iselin said:
    Thanks to @AIBQuirky for finding and posting the video below in another thread.

    This is what we really know so far about FO76 so far:
    • It has PVP on always - even when you "solo" - so it's no different than most other survival games in that respect.
    • No idea what happens to your items when you die but it sounds like 100% full loot from anything I've read or seen.
    I would challenge these two statements.

    1. There are some comments about PVP being more like dueling, and that it can be ignored if desired. This implies some element of consent.
    2. The PvP shown (and comments made) indicate that there is some benefit from PvP (footage shows caps gained) but no indication of any loss.

    It is very likely that Players will be able to avoid PvP if desired, and that even if they do engage, that they will not lose anything. There were also comments made about how they want to make engaging in PvP desirable to players.

    P.S. In my personal opinion, FO76 is NOT a PVP oriented game, it seems more like a coop PVE oriented game.
    Then how do you explain the dev response @Iselin quoted earlier in the thread?

    Quoted here: Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    There have been multiple additional videos where they discuss the game. I think this is the latest (?) (but there are several others)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHmPb5nQHbU

    You can see how they are filling out the information, and that they do not seem to be indicating a PvP focus.
    MadFrenchieKyleran
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Iselin said:
    Thanks to @AIBQuirky for finding and posting the video below in another thread.

    This is what we really know so far about FO76 so far:
    • It has PVP on always - even when you "solo" - so it's no different than most other survival games in that respect.
    • No idea what happens to your items when you die but it sounds like 100% full loot from anything I've read or seen.
    I would challenge these two statements.

    1. There are some comments about PVP being more like dueling, and that it can be ignored if desired. This implies some element of consent.
    2. The PvP shown (and comments made) indicate that there is some benefit from PvP (footage shows caps gained) but no indication of any loss.

    It is very likely that Players will be able to avoid PvP if desired, and that even if they do engage, that they will not lose anything. There were also comments made about how they want to make engaging in PvP desirable to players.

    P.S. In my personal opinion, FO76 is NOT a PVP oriented game, it seems more like a coop PVE oriented game.
    Then how do you explain the dev response @Iselin quoted earlier in the thread?

    Quoted here: Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    There have been multiple additional videos where they discuss the game. I think this is the latest (?) (but there are several others)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHmPb5nQHbU

    You can see how they are filling out the information, and that they do not seem to be indicating a PvP focus.
    As Iselin mentioned in his post, they're being fairly obscure and with the info.  Possible they haven't made a final determination on exactly how it works?

    A PvE focus would likely sit much better with their previous fanbase, but it also means there's a lot higher cost to development.  PvP makes its own content.
    KyleranRobsolf

    image
  • ShadowzanonShadowzanon Member UncommonPosts: 350
    Hariken said:
    Its funny but all this 76 talk got me to reinstall my GOY edition of Fallout 3. And i guess there was an update to make it run better on Windows 10. And i found all my old mods too. I will be playing this instead of 76. I haven't loaded up Fallout 3 in years and its a blast.
    I never played a fallout game, which one is a good one to start on?
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,287
    edited June 2018
    Iselin said:
    Thanks to @AIBQuirky for finding and posting the video below in another thread.

    This is what we really know so far about FO76 so far:
    • It has PVP on always - even when you "solo" - so it's no different than most other survival games in that respect.
    • No idea what happens to your items when you die but it sounds like 100% full loot from anything I've read or seen.
    I would challenge these two statements.

    1. There are some comments about PVP being more like dueling, and that it can be ignored if desired. This implies some element of consent.
    2. The PvP shown (and comments made) indicate that there is some benefit from PvP (footage shows caps gained) but no indication of any loss.

    It is very likely that Players will be able to avoid PvP if desired, and that even if they do engage, that they will not lose anything. There were also comments made about how they want to make engaging in PvP desirable to players.

    P.S. In my personal opinion, FO76 is NOT a PVP oriented game, it seems more like a coop PVE oriented game.
    Then how do you explain the dev response @Iselin quoted earlier in the thread?

    Quoted here: Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    There have been multiple additional videos where they discuss the game. I think this is the latest (?) (but there are several others)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHmPb5nQHbU

    You can see how they are filling out the information, and that they do not seem to be indicating a PvP focus.
    As Iselin mentioned in his post, they're being fairly obscure and with the info.  Possible they haven't made a final determination on exactly how it works?

    A PvE focus would likely sit much better with their previous fanbase, but it also means there's a lot higher cost to development.  PvP makes its own content.
    You are correct in stating that they have not yet fixed how PvP interactions are going to work.. and this is likely why they are being a bit vague about it. However,  when you look at the now half dozen or so videos where they talk about the game, there is no indication that they are looking to make PvP the focus of the game... and a LOT of indications that they are looking at coop PvE as the focus.

    If you want an example (and there are many), just look at how they are describing Nukes. This is not the ultimate PvP weapon, it is how coop PvE players create high level zones to play in. They even go as far as trying to minimize their impacts on players, by warning them in advance (so they can log out/leave the area to avoid the effect) as well as removing any item loss, and allowing repairs for any damage done if they stay  in the target areas. Does this sound like a PvP focus?

    Hariken said:
    Its funny but all this 76 talk got me to reinstall my GOY edition of Fallout 3. And i guess there was an update to make it run better on Windows 10. And i found all my old mods too. I will be playing this instead of 76. I haven't loaded up Fallout 3 in years and its a blast.
    I never played a fallout game, which one is a good one to start on?
    I guess it depends on your tolerance. If you are into old school, you can go back as far as Fallout 1 (97) or FO2 (98). If you want a more modern game, then you need FO3(08) or New Vegas(10). FO4 (15) is the current game. 
    MadFrenchie[Deleted User]
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,495
    edited June 2018
    Iselin said:
    Thanks to @AIBQuirky for finding and posting the video below in another thread.

    This is what we really know so far about FO76 so far:
    • It has PVP on always - even when you "solo" - so it's no different than most other survival games in that respect.
    • No idea what happens to your items when you die but it sounds like 100% full loot from anything I've read or seen.
    I would challenge these two statements.

    1. There are some comments about PVP being more like dueling, and that it can be ignored if desired. This implies some element of consent.
    2. The PvP shown (and comments made) indicate that there is some benefit from PvP (footage shows caps gained) but no indication of any loss.

    It is very likely that Players will be able to avoid PvP if desired, and that even if they do engage, that they will not lose anything. There were also comments made about how they want to make engaging in PvP desirable to players.

    P.S. In my personal opinion, FO76 is NOT a PVP oriented game, it seems more like a coop PVE oriented game.
    Then how do you explain the dev response @Iselin quoted earlier in the thread?

    Quoted here: Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    There have been multiple additional videos where they discuss the game. I think this is the latest (?) (but there are several others)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHmPb5nQHbU

    You can see how they are filling out the information, and that they do not seem to be indicating a PvP focus.
    As Iselin mentioned in his post, they're being fairly obscure and with the info.  Possible they haven't made a final determination on exactly how it works?

    A PvE focus would likely sit much better with their previous fanbase, but it also means there's a lot higher cost to development.  PvP makes its own content.
    You are correct in stating that they have not yet fixed how PvP interactions are going to work.. and this is likely why they are being a bit vague about it. However,  when you look at the now half dozen or so videos where they talk about the game, there is no indication that they are looking to make PvP the focus of the game... and a LOT of indications that they are looking at coop PvE as the focus.

    If you want an example (and there are many), just look at how they are describing Nukes. This is not the ultimate PvP weapon, it is how coop PvE players create high level zones to play in. They even go as far as trying to minimize their impacts on players, by warning them in advance (so they can log out/leave the area to avoid the effect) as well as removing any item loss, and allowing repairs for any damage done if they stay  in the target areas. Does this sound like a PvP focus?

    Hariken said:
    Its funny but all this 76 talk got me to reinstall my GOY edition of Fallout 3. And i guess there was an update to make it run better on Windows 10. And i found all my old mods too. I will be playing this instead of 76. I haven't loaded up Fallout 3 in years and its a blast.
    I never played a fallout game, which one is a good one to start on?
    I guess it depends on your tolerance. If you are into old school, you can go back as far as Fallout 1 (97) or FO2 (98). If you want a more modern game, then you need FO3(08) or New Vegas(10). FO4 (15) is the current game. 
    I would recommend Fallout New Vegas, though 4 is my favorite but its an acquired taste for some.

    Unless....you are really into crafting / base building, then FO4 for sure.   I enjoy 4 despite this, but not because I enjoy building, its a great source of easy experience and cash both early and late into the game.
    [Deleted User]blueturtle13

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,903
    But it's a game made by Bethesda themselves.   That means it will be a buggy mess,  there is no such thing as a Bethesda game that isn't.

    People who play multiplayer games just don't have the patience for a buggy mess.   It'll be interesting to see which is stronger Bethesda's automatic gamer forgiveness for bugs, or gamer hate for bugs in multiplayer.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • ShadowzanonShadowzanon Member UncommonPosts: 350
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    Thanks to @AIBQuirky for finding and posting the video below in another thread.

    This is what we really know so far about FO76 so far:
    • It has PVP on always - even when you "solo" - so it's no different than most other survival games in that respect.
    • No idea what happens to your items when you die but it sounds like 100% full loot from anything I've read or seen.
    I would challenge these two statements.

    1. There are some comments about PVP being more like dueling, and that it can be ignored if desired. This implies some element of consent.
    2. The PvP shown (and comments made) indicate that there is some benefit from PvP (footage shows caps gained) but no indication of any loss.

    It is very likely that Players will be able to avoid PvP if desired, and that even if they do engage, that they will not lose anything. There were also comments made about how they want to make engaging in PvP desirable to players.

    P.S. In my personal opinion, FO76 is NOT a PVP oriented game, it seems more like a coop PVE oriented game.
    Then how do you explain the dev response @Iselin quoted earlier in the thread?

    Quoted here: Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    There have been multiple additional videos where they discuss the game. I think this is the latest (?) (but there are several others)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHmPb5nQHbU

    You can see how they are filling out the information, and that they do not seem to be indicating a PvP focus.
    As Iselin mentioned in his post, they're being fairly obscure and with the info.  Possible they haven't made a final determination on exactly how it works?

    A PvE focus would likely sit much better with their previous fanbase, but it also means there's a lot higher cost to development.  PvP makes its own content.
    You are correct in stating that they have not yet fixed how PvP interactions are going to work.. and this is likely why they are being a bit vague about it. However,  when you look at the now half dozen or so videos where they talk about the game, there is no indication that they are looking to make PvP the focus of the game... and a LOT of indications that they are looking at coop PvE as the focus.

    If you want an example (and there are many), just look at how they are describing Nukes. This is not the ultimate PvP weapon, it is how coop PvE players create high level zones to play in. They even go as far as trying to minimize their impacts on players, by warning them in advance (so they can log out/leave the area to avoid the effect) as well as removing any item loss, and allowing repairs for any damage done if they stay  in the target areas. Does this sound like a PvP focus?

    Hariken said:
    Its funny but all this 76 talk got me to reinstall my GOY edition of Fallout 3. And i guess there was an update to make it run better on Windows 10. And i found all my old mods too. I will be playing this instead of 76. I haven't loaded up Fallout 3 in years and its a blast.
    I never played a fallout game, which one is a good one to start on?
    I guess it depends on your tolerance. If you are into old school, you can go back as far as Fallout 1 (97) or FO2 (98). If you want a more modern game, then you need FO3(08) or New Vegas(10). FO4 (15) is the current game. 
    I would recommend Fallout New Vegas, though 4 is my favorite but its an acquired taste for some.

    Unless....you are really into crafting / base building, then FO4 for sure.   I enjoy 4 despite this, but not because I enjoy building, its a great source of easy experience and cash both early and late into the game.
    Ill prob give new vegas a shot then!
    blueturtle13
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,436
    Kyleran said:



    Hariken said:
    Its funny but all this 76 talk got me to reinstall my GOY edition of Fallout 3. And i guess there was an update to make it run better on Windows 10. And i found all my old mods too. I will be playing this instead of 76. I haven't loaded up Fallout 3 in years and its a blast.
    I never played a fallout game, which one is a good one to start on?
    I guess it depends on your tolerance. If you are into old school, you can go back as far as Fallout 1 (97) or FO2 (98). If you want a more modern game, then you need FO3(08) or New Vegas(10). FO4 (15) is the current game. 
    I would recommend Fallout New Vegas, though 4 is my favorite but its an acquired taste for some.

    Unless....you are really into crafting / base building, then FO4 for sure.   I enjoy 4 despite this, but not because I enjoy building, its a great source of easy experience and cash both early and late into the game.
    Ill prob give new vegas a shot then!
    I would recommend the ultimate edition for $10

    New Vegas was so good Todd Howard would not let Obsidian touch Fallout again lol 

    https://www.gog.com/game/fallout_new_vegas_ultimate_edition



    There are so many mods to enhance the experience too. New California is a mod being released this October that has been in development for 5 to 7 years!

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/falloutprojectbrazil/news/fallout-new-california-release-date-announcment


    [Deleted User]Kyleran

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,195
    People are jumping to conclusions without even knowing the server rules.  You may very well be able to play on coop only servers. 

    I guess I am old to the point I do not expect every game made to be to my taste.  It makes it much easier to deal with the industry.
    [Deleted User]AlBQuirky
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    OG_Zorvan said:
    Fallout 76 is shit.

    I do have to say, i agree talking about what a game IS is much more fun than about what it isn't.
    True but w/o first hand knowledge  what can we say about the game?Personally the last Fallout was imo crap,so not sure why i would expect this to all of a sudden be an amazing effort if the last was not?
    None the less E3 is just an advertising venue,not sure why anyone would get excited over advertising,i'll wait and see if any good games come out over the year and i don't care if they were at E3 or not.
    anemo[Deleted User]Kyleran

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,903
    Iselin said:
    Thanks to @AIBQuirky for finding and posting the video below in another thread.

    This is what we really know so far about FO76 so far:
    • It has PVP on always - even when you "solo" - so it's no different than most other survival games in that respect.
    • No idea what happens to your items when you die but it sounds like 100% full loot from anything I've read or seen.
    I would challenge these two statements.

    1. There are some comments about PVP being more like dueling, and that it can be ignored if desired. This implies some element of consent.
    2. The PvP shown (and comments made) indicate that there is some benefit from PvP (footage shows caps gained) but no indication of any loss.

    It is very likely that Players will be able to avoid PvP if desired, and that even if they do engage, that they will not lose anything. There were also comments made about how they want to make engaging in PvP desirable to players.

    P.S. In my personal opinion, FO76 is NOT a PVP oriented game, it seems more like a coop PVE oriented game.
    Where are you getting the impression that PVP can be ignored and is more like dueling? (video link with time stamp please.)

    All I have seen in interviews subsequent to the ones that were available when I made this thread is statements that just how you can choose to approach or not approach NPCs in the single player FOs, you have that same choice with respect to other players. That's a hell of a long way from it being just duels or even a flag system.

    Yes you can avoid it by running away and hiding or by both players just choosing not to start it but that's just like any other non-consensual PVP game. The video I linked and his answer to the direct question still stands until I hear something definitive that it's consensual as you are saying.

    And yes I have seen the videos that indicate that you do not lose items if you die from mobs or a nuclear blast and that does seem to now indicate that you don't lose items when you die due to damage from any source, including PVP, but I have yet to see or hear any clear statement that no, other players can not loot your corpse. It could indeed be that you lose no items but your corpse generates caps and other loot as has been done in other games. 

    So yes, I now also "challenge" that statement based on what has been said since: In some situations at least they are now clearly saying you do not lose personal inventory items.

    People are jumping to conclusions without even knowing the server rules.  You may very well be able to play on coop only servers. 

    I guess I am old to the point I do not expect every game made to be to my taste.  It makes it much easier to deal with the industry.
    There are not any different servers with other server rules: one megaserver with the same rule. No jumping to conclusions required just what they have said.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,287
    edited June 2018
    Iselin said:
    Where are you getting the impression that PVP can be ignored and is more like dueling? (video link with time stamp please.)

    ....
     It could indeed be that you lose no items but your corpse generates caps and other loot as has been done in other games. 


    If I come across the reference again, I will try to remember to link it here.

    Edit: Here is one. Not the one that I was thinking of, but enough to get the idea:  2:25
    6:00 also (to a certain extent)
    11:50 Players notified of Nuke

    The E3 video does show getting caps from killing other players (not from looting them). Some people have taken the time to parse a lot of data out of the footage that we do have.
    [Deleted User]
  • 45074507 Member UncommonPosts: 351
    Not buying unless I can host my own password protected server. If I wanted to play an OWPvP survival game the market is already flooded with them, and even if I did want that, the VATS system seems like it's going to pretty much be an aimbot system, which would take a lot of the fun out of the combat.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,903
    Iselin said:
    Where are you getting the impression that PVP can be ignored and is more like dueling? (video link with time stamp please.)

    ....
     It could indeed be that you lose no items but your corpse generates caps and other loot as has been done in other games. 


    If I come across the reference again, I will try to remember to link it here.

    Edit: Here is one. Not the one that I was thinking of, but enough to get the idea:  2:25
    6:00 also (to a certain extent)
    11:50 Players notified of Nuke

    The E3 video does show getting caps from killing other players (not from looting them). Some people have taken the time to parse a lot of data out of the footage that we do have.
    Hmm... Pete Heins VP of PR and marketing... okay :)

    What he's saying about the PVP still sounds to me like hiding, possibly n a different instance/phase of the megaserver if you want to get away from the ganker, not like a duel despite his "challenge" spin.

    I guess we'll find out for real how they plan to work it. Until then, I'll continue to believe what the actual lead developer said about it:

    Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,287
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Where are you getting the impression that PVP can be ignored and is more like dueling? (video link with time stamp please.)

    ....
     It could indeed be that you lose no items but your corpse generates caps and other loot as has been done in other games. 


    If I come across the reference again, I will try to remember to link it here.

    Edit: Here is one. Not the one that I was thinking of, but enough to get the idea:  2:25
    6:00 also (to a certain extent)
    11:50 Players notified of Nuke

    The E3 video does show getting caps from killing other players (not from looting them). Some people have taken the time to parse a lot of data out of the footage that we do have.
    Hmm... Pete Heins VP of PR and marketing... okay :)

    What he's saying about the PVP still sounds to me like hiding, possibly n a different instance/phase of the megaserver if you want to get away from the ganker, not like a duel despite his "challenge" spin.

    I guess we'll find out for real how they plan to work it. Until then, I'll continue to believe what the actual lead developer said about it:

    Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    There are other example like the one I linked.. but I have not gone back through all the old videos to find them (I just view the new videos as they come out). I am sure you can see why I have gotten the impression that they are shooting for a Coop PVE game (with PvP options) rather than an open world PvP game (with some PVE options). You also need to take into consideration that you can see where the other players are on the map...
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,903
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Where are you getting the impression that PVP can be ignored and is more like dueling? (video link with time stamp please.)

    ....
     It could indeed be that you lose no items but your corpse generates caps and other loot as has been done in other games. 


    If I come across the reference again, I will try to remember to link it here.

    Edit: Here is one. Not the one that I was thinking of, but enough to get the idea:  2:25
    6:00 also (to a certain extent)
    11:50 Players notified of Nuke

    The E3 video does show getting caps from killing other players (not from looting them). Some people have taken the time to parse a lot of data out of the footage that we do have.
    Hmm... Pete Heins VP of PR and marketing... okay :)

    What he's saying about the PVP still sounds to me like hiding, possibly n a different instance/phase of the megaserver if you want to get away from the ganker, not like a duel despite his "challenge" spin.

    I guess we'll find out for real how they plan to work it. Until then, I'll continue to believe what the actual lead developer said about it:

    Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    There are other example like the one I linked.. but I have not gone back through all the old videos to find them (I just view the new videos as they come out). I am sure you can see why I have gotten the impression that they are shooting for a Coop PVE game (with PvP options) rather than an open world PvP game (with some PVE options). You also need to take into consideration that you can see where the other players are on the map...
    I would love to get that impression because co-op PVE with PVP options is a game I would play but I'm not hearing that
    MidPrincess
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,287
    edited June 2018
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Where are you getting the impression that PVP can be ignored and is more like dueling? (video link with time stamp please.)

    ....
     It could indeed be that you lose no items but your corpse generates caps and other loot as has been done in other games. 


    If I come across the reference again, I will try to remember to link it here.

    Edit: Here is one. Not the one that I was thinking of, but enough to get the idea:  2:25
    6:00 also (to a certain extent)
    11:50 Players notified of Nuke

    The E3 video does show getting caps from killing other players (not from looting them). Some people have taken the time to parse a lot of data out of the footage that we do have.
    Hmm... Pete Heins VP of PR and marketing... okay :)

    What he's saying about the PVP still sounds to me like hiding, possibly n a different instance/phase of the megaserver if you want to get away from the ganker, not like a duel despite his "challenge" spin.

    I guess we'll find out for real how they plan to work it. Until then, I'll continue to believe what the actual lead developer said about it:

    Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    There are other example like the one I linked.. but I have not gone back through all the old videos to find them (I just view the new videos as they come out). I am sure you can see why I have gotten the impression that they are shooting for a Coop PVE game (with PvP options) rather than an open world PvP game (with some PVE options). You also need to take into consideration that you can see where the other players are on the map...
    I would love to get that impression because co-op PVE with PVP options is a game I would play but I'm not hearing that
    Here is another video:



    Fallout starts at 4:03
    PvP Discussion starts at ~4:04
    They state that PvP is a challenge at 4:04:30
    They clarify that you can 'opt in' to PvP at 4:08:40

    Edit: Removed the original link, and linked to the source video
  • MidPrincessMidPrincess Member UncommonPosts: 89
    Iselin said:

    I would love to get that impression because co-op PVE with PVP options is a game I would play but I'm not hearing that
    Same here, and I'm not hearing it either.  Or how about: solo-able, but with co-op PvE content that is optional (i.e., not mandatory for main story line or what have you), and with PvP that you can either (a) flag on or off, or (b) do the instanced variety of, although in the case of this game I can understand why instanced PvP (or anything else really) probably wouldn't be a good idea.

    I have long said that the very best games, and especially the very best MMOs, are the best because they give players options in terms of how they progress, what content they do, and so forth.  I love PvP but not when it is pushed upon me, death penalty or not.  I also love co-op and raids and so on, but not when they are required for progression.  You'd think that gaming companies would have learned that by now, and this is doubly true for Bethesda.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,903
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Where are you getting the impression that PVP can be ignored and is more like dueling? (video link with time stamp please.)

    ....
     It could indeed be that you lose no items but your corpse generates caps and other loot as has been done in other games. 


    If I come across the reference again, I will try to remember to link it here.

    Edit: Here is one. Not the one that I was thinking of, but enough to get the idea:  2:25
    6:00 also (to a certain extent)
    11:50 Players notified of Nuke

    The E3 video does show getting caps from killing other players (not from looting them). Some people have taken the time to parse a lot of data out of the footage that we do have.
    Hmm... Pete Heins VP of PR and marketing... okay :)

    What he's saying about the PVP still sounds to me like hiding, possibly n a different instance/phase of the megaserver if you want to get away from the ganker, not like a duel despite his "challenge" spin.

    I guess we'll find out for real how they plan to work it. Until then, I'll continue to believe what the actual lead developer said about it:

    Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    There are other example like the one I linked.. but I have not gone back through all the old videos to find them (I just view the new videos as they come out). I am sure you can see why I have gotten the impression that they are shooting for a Coop PVE game (with PvP options) rather than an open world PvP game (with some PVE options). You also need to take into consideration that you can see where the other players are on the map...
    I would love to get that impression because co-op PVE with PVP options is a game I would play but I'm not hearing that
    Here is another video:



    The first section talks about PvP, starting at 0:36. They clarify that PvP is a challenge that either side can decline. At 3:30 they clearly state that you 'opt in' to PvP.
    It's once again Heins. I have heard his spin on many things over the years - he's a frequent guest in "ESO Live" episodes when they have something potentially controversial they want to spin into a positive. He's not what I would consider the most trustworthy Bethesda exec. He's trying to do damage control because they realize the non consensual PVP part of the reveal is not going over well with a lot of folks.

    And even then is still equivocating. Listen carefully to what he says. "You want to go? No I'm good... and then maybe there's a conflict there." He is not saying that you can outright decline and that's the end of it. He keeps emphasizing here and in the other video that you can't be spawn camped and like I said before maybe that has to do with phases in the megaserver.

    If you do need to turn on a PVP switch in order to PVP and no one can make you PVP unless you do that, which seems like it's what your take is from what you're hearing, why don't they just say that plainly?

    He's way too quick to move on from that confrontation bit into a spawn camping discussion as if he were avoiding being absolutely clear about there being a real way to prevent PVP because he doesn't want to be crystal clear about it.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,901
    edited June 2018
    I still do not quite get the point of the game I guess. 
    So you can build a base and defend it from others. For what? What purpose will the base serve? Why would another group want to destroy it? 
    Because it is "fun", you seem to want theme, lore and motivation. We don't have that in gaming anymore.
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,287
    edited June 2018
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Where are you getting the impression that PVP can be ignored and is more like dueling? (video link with time stamp please.)

    ....
     It could indeed be that you lose no items but your corpse generates caps and other loot as has been done in other games. 


    If I come across the reference again, I will try to remember to link it here.

    Edit: Here is one. Not the one that I was thinking of, but enough to get the idea:  2:25
    6:00 also (to a certain extent)
    11:50 Players notified of Nuke

    The E3 video does show getting caps from killing other players (not from looting them). Some people have taken the time to parse a lot of data out of the footage that we do have.
    Hmm... Pete Heins VP of PR and marketing... okay :)

    What he's saying about the PVP still sounds to me like hiding, possibly n a different instance/phase of the megaserver if you want to get away from the ganker, not like a duel despite his "challenge" spin.

    I guess we'll find out for real how they plan to work it. Until then, I'll continue to believe what the actual lead developer said about it:

    Interviewer:  "So you can pick and say I don't want PVP?"
    TH: "Wellllll... we want a little bit of drama there."
    There are other example like the one I linked.. but I have not gone back through all the old videos to find them (I just view the new videos as they come out). I am sure you can see why I have gotten the impression that they are shooting for a Coop PVE game (with PvP options) rather than an open world PvP game (with some PVE options). You also need to take into consideration that you can see where the other players are on the map...
    I would love to get that impression because co-op PVE with PVP options is a game I would play but I'm not hearing that
    Here is another video:



    The first section talks about PvP, starting at 0:36. They clarify that PvP is a challenge that either side can decline. At 3:30 they clearly state that you 'opt in' to PvP.
    It's once again Heins. I have heard his spin on many things over the years - he's a frequent guest in "ESO Live" episodes when they have something potentially controversial they want to spin into a positive. He's not what I would consider the most trustworthy Bethesda exec. He's trying to do damage control because they realize the non consensual PVP part of the reveal is not going over well with a lot of folks.

    And even then is still equivocating. Listen carefully to what he says. "You want to go? No I'm good... and then maybe there's a conflict there." He is not saying that you can outright decline and that's the end of it. He keeps emphasizing here and in the other video that you can't be spawn camped and like I said before maybe that has to do with phases in the megaserver.

    If you do need to turn on a PVP switch in order to PVP and no one can make you PVP unless you do that, which seems like it's what your take is from what you're hearing, why don't they just say that plainly?

    He's way too quick to move on from that confrontation bit into a spawn camping discussion as if he were avoiding being absolutely clear about there being a real way to prevent PVP because he doesn't want to be crystal clear about it.
    I am not going to dispute the fact that they these issues are  not clear understood, with tangible information. However, I am putting forward that what they are providing does not seem to indicate a PvP based game... and in fact seems to indicate the the role of PvP is intended to be minor. The last video that I linked was recorded on Sunday, the same day as the E3 reveal. The other was made 4 days later... and seems to provide similar information. So, at least this person is consistent.

    We cant tell who is providing the best reference point on these issues until we have something more solid (likely to not be clarified until the BETA). However, when you look at how the different people are presenting the same issue (even if done in vagaries), you can get a consistent general impression that the focus is on PvE, with online elements for Coop, and some limited form of PvP. There is no indication that this is intended to be a PvP focused game, and as such no reason to assume rulesets that would favor PvP over PvE.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,470
    I'll believe the option to not PvP when I actually see it, so far it's too vague and if they are not being clear it only means one thing in my book - dissembling.
    Iselin

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,287
    Iselin said:
    Thanks to @AIBQuirky for finding and posting the video below in another thread.

    This is what we really know so far about FO76 so far:

    • It has PVP on always - even when you "solo" - so it's no different than most other survival games in that respect.
    • No idea what happens to your items when you die but it sounds like 100% full loot from anything I've read or seen.
    I am going back to my original statement in this thread. I do not think we can consider either of these statements as items that we 'know'. They are speculative at best, and I have shown multiple references indicating that they may not be true... and there are no known references to indicate that they must be true.

    If we just eliminate these from the mix of 'known' facts, it drastically changes the perception of the game.
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 1,128
    Wow, this sounds completely awful to me.  I was hoping they were at least going to merge the crafting genre mislabeled as "Survival" with real games with content.
  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,087
    If they consider adding mod support later on, then you can be sure that it will be based on dedicated servers. This means you can change server rules as admin. All these kinds of games have options to completely turn of PVP if you don't like it.
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