I personally do enjoy large scale PVP and want large crowds for that, but if I'm being honest, that is the only thing I do in MMOs where having those large crowds makes my gaming experience better. With a lot of other things I do in MMOs, large crowds are not needed and sometimes they just get in the way.
This is my feeling as well.
It ruins the experience to have players just getting in the way when one is doing a quest or trying to immerse one's self.
This happens to me in Elder Scrolls Online all the time. I can't tell you how many times I vanquished a boss without ever touching it because a horde of people mowed right over it just as I spawned.
Or I'm "talking" to a quest giver but players are running between me and the quest giver.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I personally do enjoy large scale PVP and want large crowds for that, but if I'm being honest, that is the only thing I do in MMOs where having those large crowds makes my gaming experience better. With a lot of other things I do in MMOs, large crowds are not needed and sometimes they just get in the way.
This is my feeling as well.
It ruins the experience to have players just getting in the way when one is doing a quest or trying to immerse one's self.
This happens to me in Elder Scrolls Online all the time. I can't tell you how many times I vanquished a boss without ever touching it because a horde of people mowed right over it just as I spawned.
Or I'm "talking" to a quest giver but players are running between me and the quest giver.
Boss mobs getting run over could be alleviated by dynamic scaling, no need for phasing there.
There are other answers to these issues, phasing and instancing are merely easy ones.
It's a lot closer to survival games than an MMORPG but it does sound very cool with traditional Fallout story quests built in.
What Tod Howard said in the presentation tonight that "you can carry your progress to other servers" and "you won't even notice you're in a different server" sounds to me like they'll be using something like a heavily instanced megaserver tech to handle different servers more seamlessly than what is normal in survival games.
I get what you're saying @BillMurphy, l in that this will be the closest a survival game has ever gotten to a full fledged mmoprg with respect to game play elements, size, quests and scope but I also agree with @blueturtle13 that "dozens" instead of hundreds or thousands is still a key and relevant difference between this and say the Elder Scrolls Online.
Yep, I agree with Blue too. It's just I also don't think, outside of big sieges or cities, I've ever seen more than a few dozen players in one space in an MMO. For all intents and purposes, FO76 is going to look and feel like a Fallout sandbox MMO shooter.
Clesrly you haven't, dont play EVE then.
Or DAOC, or L2, or.....others...
Not a MMORPG, but this one I'm going to play, FFA PVP or not.
I do get Bill's point. Over time mmorpgs have been getting progressively more and more managed with respect to the max number of players that are permitted to be all in one place at a time.
If the graphics and other systems were still the same as the original MMOs from the late '90s and early 2000s, present day connectivity and PC power could have been used to have even more players in the same space than we did back then, before you have to start counting seconds per frame instead of frames per second. And Eve has always been a special case because there's not a whole lot that needs to be rendered in space. I know what graphics Eve has are not bad but it's nevertheless a good example of what could be done with current PC power and low graphics processing demands.
Instead of freezing the graphics at 2000 levels, game developers (thankfully) chose to use the increased specs to give us more and more detailed graphics for environments characters and effects while at the same time focusing on game play that does not require huge number of players on screen to enjoy.
When you put things like that together you do have to start questioning whether the potential to have large number of players on screen means all that much with respect to the players experiencing a world full of other players when the zoning, phasing and channeling tricks that are now common do a good enough job of simulating the experience.
I personally do enjoy large scale PVP and want large crowds for that, but if I'm being honest, that is the only thing I do in MMOs where having those large crowds makes my gaming experience better. With a lot of other things I do in MMOs, large crowds are not needed and sometimes they just get in the way.
So a game like ESO that is heavily instanced and phased and spawns local instances on the fly if a location is getting too crowded for all PVE, but at the same time allows several hundred players to be in one PVP zone at the same time for large scale RvR, suits me fine. I think of it as an MMO and so do most of us with the possible exception of one or two extremists here.
I still can't bring myself to call a game like FO76 an MMO because it never allows more than "dozens" anywhere at any time for any reason. But I do see why some question whether there is any practical difference worth fretting about and I especially see it for people that never participate in large scale PVP - and there has always been quite a few of those players in MMOs.
I somewhat agree, but remember that the "graphics arms race" is the chief cause of exploding development costs. You can't bitch about monetization methods like we do without acknowledging that we contribute because we demand high poly-counts and HDR lighting everywhere.
Our constant need for pushing the envelope on graphics, and our monetary support of games that do so, do cause priorities to shift within development. The Watch Dogs trailer debate comes to mind.
If fans of truly massively multiplayer games want to experience said massively multiplayer, we first need to recognize that we can't expect the releases to be competitive in the visual department because that costs a shit ton of time, money, and PC resources to run that could be used on other things.
I personally do enjoy large scale PVP and want large crowds for that, but if I'm being honest, that is the only thing I do in MMOs where having those large crowds makes my gaming experience better. With a lot of other things I do in MMOs, large crowds are not needed and sometimes they just get in the way.
This is my feeling as well.
It ruins the experience to have players just getting in the way when one is doing a quest or trying to immerse one's self.
This happens to me in Elder Scrolls Online all the time. I can't tell you how many times I vanquished a boss without ever touching it because a horde of people mowed right over it just as I spawned.
Or I'm "talking" to a quest giver but players are running between me and the quest giver.
Boss mobs getting run over could be alleviated by dynamic scaling, no need for phasing there.
There are other answers to these issues, phasing and instancing are merely easy ones.
Great! But that doesn't mitigate the fact that at this point, players are getting in the way.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It almost seems like they are adopting the GTA Online model where, if you just log in, you wind up in a general instance that has an opening, but you can switch to an instance that contains friends, and it is possible to start an instance and password-protect it, ensuring solo play. Otherwise, how can we possibly have a hope to play with friends, let along, actually play somewhere that has a population that roleplays. It would have been better if they had followed the Conan Exiles model of public servers and private servers. Maybe they'll figure that out in BETA.
I personally do enjoy large scale PVP and want large crowds for that, but if I'm being honest, that is the only thing I do in MMOs where having those large crowds makes my gaming experience better. With a lot of other things I do in MMOs, large crowds are not needed and sometimes they just get in the way.
This is my feeling as well.
It ruins the experience to have players just getting in the way when one is doing a quest or trying to immerse one's self.
This happens to me in Elder Scrolls Online all the time. I can't tell you how many times I vanquished a boss without ever touching it because a horde of people mowed right over it just as I spawned.
Or I'm "talking" to a quest giver but players are running between me and the quest giver.
Boss mobs getting run over could be alleviated by dynamic scaling, no need for phasing there.
There are other answers to these issues, phasing and instancing are merely easy ones.
Great! But that doesn't mitigate the fact that at this point, players are getting in the way.
Well....... That's massively multiplayer.
Folks who come into those games hoping for a game world tailored to them seem confused, more than anything else, to me.
Besides, bitching about other players being in the way is like taking the PvP ganking example to the extreme: I don't just want not to be ganked by a player I can't hope to defend myself against, I don't want to be ganked by any player unless I queue up and let you know I'm ready for it!
Well, in that case, just play the regular server and queue for the battlegrounds.
Similarly, there is and always has been plenty of multiplayer-enabled titles that are strictly opt-in to the multiplayer parts. Massively multiplayer hasn't always been one, and for good reason: that made it distinct from those regular ole multiplayer titles.
Its not an mmo so stop spreading false info. Its a multiplayer survival gankbox. It will be garbage and kills what fallout was all about.
Oh look everyone here is the guy that has the definition of mmo on lock down. He is also the only one who knows what "fallout was all about" and this new game will be garbage.
It's so nice that nobody cares about your opinion. But please feel free to post your bias opinions. I for one can't wait for this mmo I'm sure I won t be the only one either.
So, what's the subscription model going to be for this so-called "MMORPG"?
I personally want to see nukes in the cash shop
"My clan finally got nuke launch codes after 3 months of grinding"
oh yeah - just bought 5 nukes from the shop for $100 - kekekeke
Who do you nuke? Those guys that raided you last night are now in a different random instance...
You have never heard of phasing nukes? You write the guys game tag on the missile and of it goes, does not matter what instance he is in. It cost £20 but think of the satisfaction.
I guess my take on the E3 presentation is different than a lot I see here. What I heard said made me think there is going to be a lot of option in how I choose to play the game. Flat out stated I can play alone or with friends... also stated I can play where not everyone is going to be friendly.
Leads me to believe that there will simply be a lot of choices in the "instance" or whatever you want to call it that we will be put into. Maybe I'm wrong but my view isn't "oh hey I'm going to get shoved into Ultima Online Fallout Online..." (I loved pre-trammel so whatever). As opposed to I will have the choice to...
Play Alone With Friends With people I don't know in a co-op environment Or with people I may not know and co-op is optional....
To me at this point in gaming history it seems stupid to be locked into any one thing. So giving a broad base of players the option to experience the game they want (all in one product) would be a great idea.
I do like the fact that the number of people in an area will have some kind of limit. As it fits with what you would expect based on the world.
Private servers as well as official may have been a better choice. Especially if they could be highly customized. Honestly the post nuclear world would probably be pretty brutal... maybe more brutal than I would want to play at this age... but there should be some kind of option that really reflects that world.
I want to be excited about this, but I honestly couldn't stand FO 4 and the fact that Bethesda seems to be (and yes it's early) following along this "online survival" hype train is troubling. Thus far I have seen little to suggest this "new shiny" genre is going to be any better than the thousands of other offerings we've seen.
Hey at least they are working on ES 6! Although I have a feeling it'll be around 2021 for that one and now cannot help but worry that it, too, will be "always online." God.
It is a multiplayer rpg-survival game, not a MASSIVE multiplayer game.
It's an mmo with multiplayer rpg-survival game aspects.
They only showed a bunch of players. When they show hundreds of players together in an open map I can get convinced that it is an MMO.
"Hundreds of players" so which games are mmos today according to you ? I don't know any games right now that you regularly see 100s on the same screen.
It is a multiplayer rpg-survival game, not a MASSIVE multiplayer game.
It's an mmo with multiplayer rpg-survival game aspects.
They only showed a bunch of players. When they show hundreds of players together in an open map I can get convinced that it is an MMO.
"Hundreds of players" so which games are mmos today according to you ? I don't know any games right now that you regularly see 100s on the same screen.
An MMO is a game that supports thousands of players in a persistent world map. Lineage and Lineage 2 are classic examples of this.
It is a multiplayer rpg-survival game, not a MASSIVE multiplayer game.
It's an mmo with multiplayer rpg-survival game aspects.
They only showed a bunch of players. When they show hundreds of players together in an open map I can get convinced that it is an MMO.
"Hundreds of players" so which games are mmos today according to you ? I don't know any games right now that you regularly see 100s on the same screen.
An MMO is a game that supports thousands of players in a persistent world map. Lineage and Lineage 2 are classic examples of this.
Says who? Before you said 100s now we are into the 1000s. I don't understand where some of you get this idea you get to decide what is and what is not an mmo. I missed the memo where random guys on the internet are in charge of this.
It is a multiplayer rpg-survival game, not a MASSIVE multiplayer game.
It's an mmo with multiplayer rpg-survival game aspects.
They only showed a bunch of players. When they show hundreds of players together in an open map I can get convinced that it is an MMO.
"Hundreds of players" so which games are mmos today according to you ? I don't know any games right now that you regularly see 100s on the same screen.
Any of the older MMORPG titles that don't use megaserver tech/phasing technology. DAoC immediately comes to mind.
EDIT- Even the private WoW servers qualified for this criteria with no phasing afaik.
I could get into this game. It looks fun, but it's still too early to know if it's my kind of game, and I need A LOT more details.
Same here in regard to PvE/NPC's.
If you take Todd Howards words literal he states "Everyone you meet is a real player."
I'm not expecting to come across NPC made towns like Diamond City/Megaton becuase it's only been 25 years since the bombs dropped. It'd be to unreralistic to assume humans who survived would get their acts together that soon to rebuild.
So I'm wondering what level of NPC interaction there's going to be for solo players as Todd also mentioned questing is still in.
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
There are other answers to these issues, phasing and instancing are merely easy ones.
Our constant need for pushing the envelope on graphics, and our monetary support of games that do so, do cause priorities to shift within development. The Watch Dogs trailer debate comes to mind.
If fans of truly massively multiplayer games want to experience said massively multiplayer, we first need to recognize that we can't expect the releases to be competitive in the visual department because that costs a shit ton of time, money, and PC resources to run that could be used on other things.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Folks who come into those games hoping for a game world tailored to them seem confused, more than anything else, to me.
Besides, bitching about other players being in the way is like taking the PvP ganking example to the extreme: I don't just want not to be ganked by a player I can't hope to defend myself against, I don't want to be ganked by any player unless I queue up and let you know I'm ready for it!
Well, in that case, just play the regular server and queue for the battlegrounds.
Similarly, there is and always has been plenty of multiplayer-enabled titles that are strictly opt-in to the multiplayer parts. Massively multiplayer hasn't always been one, and for good reason: that made it distinct from those regular ole multiplayer titles.
EDIT- for clarity of point
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
It's so nice that nobody cares about your opinion. But please feel free to post your bias opinions. I for one can't wait for this mmo I'm sure I won t be the only one either.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
Leads me to believe that there will simply be a lot of choices in the "instance" or whatever you want to call it that we will be put into. Maybe I'm wrong but my view isn't "oh hey I'm going to get shoved into Ultima Online Fallout Online..." (I loved pre-trammel so whatever). As opposed to I will have the choice to...
Play Alone
With Friends
With people I don't know in a co-op environment
Or with people I may not know and co-op is optional....
To me at this point in gaming history it seems stupid to be locked into any one thing. So giving a broad base of players the option to experience the game they want (all in one product) would be a great idea.
I do like the fact that the number of people in an area will have some kind of limit. As it fits with what you would expect based on the world.
Private servers as well as official may have been a better choice. Especially if they could be highly customized. Honestly the post nuclear world would probably be pretty brutal... maybe more brutal than I would want to play at this age... but there should be some kind of option that really reflects that world.
Current game: Pillars of Eternity
Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2
Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO
Future: Camelot Unchained? Crowfall? Bless?
EDIT- Even the private WoW servers qualified for this criteria with no phasing afaik.