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YouTuber and his family gets death threats because he criticized Star Citizen in a video.

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Comments

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited June 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    The first step to resolving issues is to identify the issue. If we remain quiet and do not draw attention because "it is trolling" we only enable this to continue in the background.
    Okay that argumentation is flawed to me.

    For a simple reason, the issue of death threats has been identified long ago, it has been given a LOT of attention, has anything gotten better? Fixed the problem? No.

    In fact attention does not fix anything here, because the solution to deal with it lies within something much more complex, that ties to the same reasons online crime is so hard to stop.

    If anything, as I stated before, it increases the problem. When the attention is given, you are giving them the power they want, the power to cause one impact.

    We have gone through the same cycle with internet trolling and the more attention it has gotten, the worse it gotten, hence why we ended up on "do not feed the trolls", and I would say a lot of the people that send death threats do fall on that category, intending to cause impact / get a reaction / get attention.
    A general highlighting won't work.

    It, as you say, just makes the person doing the trolling feel vindicated because his actions are garnering press, and none of the backlash can be traced back to him.

    No, they must be identified specifically.

    Not sure I buy into the idea that calling them out will result in more radical behavior.  Generally, radicalized thoughts needs peers to embolden it to action.  Only a small percentage of folks are self-radicalized.  I guess you could make the case it would create "death threat clubs" of people who have suffered some kind of embarrassment due to being exposed after making such threats.  But that seems like a stretch, too.

    No, as with crime and punishment in general, the likelihood of getting caught, specifically, is the largest deterrent.  Once the norm becomes identifying and exposing those making such threats, the risk/reward tips to discouraging the behavior.
    Octagon7711

    image
  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,357
    MaxBacon said:
    Cotic said:
    What's disingenuous is to take away from what is really going on by trying to be victims as well.

    Of course a person or persons actions does not speak for the whole community but how the community responds to what that person or persons did does reflect on them.
    This is not truthful now, when that youtuber got those threats the thing that he did was went on social media, tag the game and go "Fuck you Community! Fuck you CIG!", so and I was talking this yesterday with others people felt frustrated that something that has nothing to do with us was being put on our backs, considering that unjust.

    That's why those reactions happened, and not unreasonably so, the youtuber later also apologized for the way he overreacted at first.
    Let's see how much you would "overreact" if someone were to threaten your daughter.
    IselinPhaserlight

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,357
    Nyctelios said:
    Just a FYI: Sid Alpha is known for flipping his content from game critique to drama.

    I'm not justifying this behavior or implying he is lying.

    But, when anything happens on his channel, I take it with a grain of salt. When big channels got strike (Totalbiscuit) or were actually sued (Jimquisition), his channel misteriously passed similar stuff, in the same time window.

    After watching many videos where he address youtube dramas (in a row) where he says "I hate to comment on those things and I don't like to fuel those dramas" yet he kept commenting on those things and fueling those dramas I stop giving him my time and attention.

    Threats, of any kind, are an act of cowardice. And publicly acknowledging them just give the harassers one small victory. Do the proper reports and avoid interaction.
    But what was she wearing?

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,620
    edited June 2018
    Ginaz said:
    Let's see how much you would "overreact" if someone were to threaten your daughter.
    I would have reached authorities, report the person whatever details I could find, tell my friends and family, now I don't feel I would go after the community or place where it did happen. For example, if it was through Youtube and as it is controversial YT itself barries the possibility of identifying who did that, then rain hell on them!

    Aside of that, nothing else will bring any benefit if I couldn't identify who did it, in fact when this youtuber did the video about it, he has gotten further attacks (like the one I linked posts ago) against his family, so I don't see why I would want to put myself on that situation.


    A general highlighting won't work.

    It, as you say, just makes the person doing the trolling feel vindicated because his actions are garnering press, and none of the backlash can be traced back to him.

    No, they must be identified specifically.

    Not sure I buy into the idea that calling them out will result in more radical behavior.  Generally, radicalized thoughts needs peers to embolden it to action.  Only a small percentage of folks are self-radicalized.  I guess you could make the case it would create "death threat clubs" of people who have suffered some kind of embarrassment due to being exposed after making such threats.  But that seems like a stretch, too.

    No, as with crime and punishment in general, the likelihood of getting caught, specifically, is the largest deterrent.  Once the norm becomes identifying and exposing those making such threats, the risk/reward tips to discouraging the behavior.
    Yes, if we could identify the person who does this, then sure expose them for what they did, that sends a message to everyone else as well before conducting that sort of behavior in the future.

    To me it is not a stretch, because if you look at swatting, when it was all over the news we saw the problem only grow, leading to people going to further lengths to protect their info. That shows to me how they work, if they can cause one impact and the culprits rarely ever get caught, then I think that just attracts that sort of messed up people.

    So to me, this case the highlight was not beneficial, in fact as I just mentioned his family has gotten new attacks after he made the video, but if somehow the video was made and exposed the identity of who did this then that'd be great.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited June 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    Ginaz said:
    Let's see how much you would "overreact" if someone were to threaten your daughter.
    I would have reached authorities, report the person whatever details I could find, tell my friends and family, now I don't feel I would go after the community or place where it did happen. For example, if it was through Youtube and as it is controversial YT itself barries the possibility of identifying who did that, then rain hell on them!

    Aside of that, nothing else will bring any benefit if I couldn't identify who did it, in fact when this youtuber did the video about it, he has gotten further threats and attacks (like the one I linked posts ago) against his family, so I don't see why I would want to put myself on that situation.


    A general highlighting won't work.

    It, as you say, just makes the person doing the trolling feel vindicated because his actions are garnering press, and none of the backlash can be traced back to him.

    No, they must be identified specifically.

    Not sure I buy into the idea that calling them out will result in more radical behavior.  Generally, radicalized thoughts needs peers to embolden it to action.  Only a small percentage of folks are self-radicalized.  I guess you could make the case it would create "death threat clubs" of people who have suffered some kind of embarrassment due to being exposed after making such threats.  But that seems like a stretch, too.

    No, as with crime and punishment in general, the likelihood of getting caught, specifically, is the largest deterrent.  Once the norm becomes identifying and exposing those making such threats, the risk/reward tips to discouraging the behavior.
    Yes, if we could identify the person who does this, then sure expose them for what they did, that sends a message to everyone else as well before conducting that sort of behavior in the future.

    To me it is not a stretch, because if you look at swatting, when it was all over the news we saw the problem only grow, leading to people going to further lengths to protect their info. That shows to me how they work, if they can cause one impact and the culprits rarely ever get caught, then I think that just attracts that sort of messed up people.

    So to me, this case the highlight was not beneficial, in fact as I just mentioned his family has gotten new threats after he made the video, but if somehow the video was made and exposed the identity of who did this then that'd be great.
    Absolutely, giving them press without exposing them is exactly what they want.  His video, to the person who made the threat, likely boiled down to: "lol triggered!"

    image
  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,606
    edited June 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    I will agree that generally they are trolls. 

    However by bringing it out in to the open, this gets back to politicians, analysts, and people that make policy. If it is heard enough they will begin to understand that it is a real problem and change can be made. 

    As I said earlier they sort of win either way. To say nothing allows the problem to remain silent and allows the problem as a whole to continue. To draw attention to it feeds the troll. I prefer erring on the side of caution. I would also like to note that generally a Troll does not go in to much detail.... the psychology behind a plan does mean that the person is indeed dangerous. 


    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" -Unknown
    This is the thing though.

    Do you realize what it would take to defeat this? We are not talking just death threats and so, but actual online crime, piracy, etc... it all ties to the same sort of lines as to why it happens and why it not only continues to exist, it grows.

    We would need fundamental groundbreaking changes to how things work, to how we exist online and the power of law enforcement to be able to defeat this type of stuff, that goes as far as the black market itself.

    I think the political degree has been on this for years now, no further attention changes things, just see swatting, everyone recognizes it is a problem, it already led to deaths, but everyone admits they can't stop it, and it becomes up to you to ensure your info doesn't leak to prevent that specific situation.

    This might sound draconic, but I think what might help is for those that make threats, to be taken at their word.  That we should take steps in the online community so that the consequences of making threats or endangering someone online would be similar to doing it in person.

    So if someone emails something to someone about raping their 13 year old daughter in front of them before killing them, then they should be taken at their word.  It should be possible (if it's not) for law enforcement to track the emailer and they should be brought up on appropriate charges.

    When it comes to swatting, they should be brought up on intent to inflict bodily harm, to attempted murder, or even murder if people are killed.  This case last winter is a perfect example.  The kid painted a scenario where if law enforcement didn't act with lethal force, innocent people might be killed.  That is nothing less than attempted murder, and since he made and executed a plan that resulted in the person's death, Murder 1.

    Doxing... there's plenty for that, as well.  There's an intent to inflict real harm on a person; it doesn't matter that they chose a virtual route in which to do it.

    And as for freedom of speech, it technically doesn't apply and even if it did, there's precedent for such recourse.  People aren't simply free to say whatever they want, particularly if it deliberately threatens individuals or puts them in harm's way.  This is not the same as calling someone a moron or having yet another stupid argument over whether the last Star Wars movie sucked or not; if someone vows to kill/rape/maim another person on email/social media, they should be taken at their word by everyone, and it should get the same reaction as it would were they to say it to the person's face.
  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,606
    MaxBacon said:
    It is despicable behavior, but to me this should be reported and that's it, making a whole fuss about it, as he did, only gives the people who make these threats what they want, knowing they managed to impact you.

    It is frustrating for sure, knowing at the same time you want to speak up about it, you're also giving those what they want, attention when what they should be getting is a sentence.

    The actions of whoever does this are as condemned by the SC community as well, it's a behavior that is not acceptable, it's for people like that I'd wish anonymously online wasn't a thing, gives them way too much power.
    I'd agree, if it were just another trolling post that calls him an idiot, a basement dweller... whatever.

    But death threats are different, and they should be treated like we would treat threats made to someone in person.  If someone calls in a bomb threat for a school, for example, quite often that person gets busted; sometimes by some forensic tracking method, but quite often it's because their peers expose them.  Law enforcement and the community at large takes the threat very seriously, and there are real consequences waiting for those that committed the crime.  And I think we as a community need to be seeing this sort of thing in that kind of lens.

    Honestly, I think it's the fact that people react to it the same as they do trolling that's the problem.  That the person making the threat couldn't or wouldn't possibly actually do anything to hurt the other person, when we already know that even physical distance isn't necessarily a factor in the ability to cause bodily harm.  Whenever we see stuff like that, we should be tipping off law enforcement with as much info as we can.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,011
    edited June 2018
    Ginaz said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Cotic said:
    What's disingenuous is to take away from what is really going on by trying to be victims as well.

    Of course a person or persons actions does not speak for the whole community but how the community responds to what that person or persons did does reflect on them.
    This is not truthful now, when that youtuber got those threats the thing that he did was went on social media, tag the game and go "Fuck you Community! Fuck you CIG!", so and I was talking this yesterday with others people felt frustrated that something that has nothing to do with us was being put on our backs, considering that unjust.

    That's why those reactions happened, and not unreasonably so, the youtuber later also apologized for the way he overreacted at first.
    Let's see how much you would "overreact" if someone were to threaten your daughter.

    If its your daughter, contact the police, we have had cases in the UK of anonymous posters being found, arrested and receiving a sentence.

    If people think social ostracism is called for, report them and they can get temporally or permanently banned which is ostracism right there.

    It does seem to me that social media is turning us into a population who wants to act out their life online rather than do something about it.
    Robsolf
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,935
    Ginaz said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Cotic said:
    What's disingenuous is to take away from what is really going on by trying to be victims as well.

    Of course a person or persons actions does not speak for the whole community but how the community responds to what that person or persons did does reflect on them.
    This is not truthful now, when that youtuber got those threats the thing that he did was went on social media, tag the game and go "Fuck you Community! Fuck you CIG!", so and I was talking this yesterday with others people felt frustrated that something that has nothing to do with us was being put on our backs, considering that unjust.

    That's why those reactions happened, and not unreasonably so, the youtuber later also apologized for the way he overreacted at first.
    Let's see how much you would "overreact" if someone were to threaten your daughter.
    Someone did, I reported them to the game devs, they banned the guy.  He came back 2 or 3 times on new accounts trying to apologize, I reported him, he got banned. Never heard from him again.

    From then on I had new policies on interactions in games and forums.

    No more sharing of RL details such as what city I live in, real first name, (mine is very unique), whether I even have a daughter or her age (she had been playing this particular game at the time) and I no longer took guild leadership positions to keep crazies from focusing on me.

    I did not go to the police nor make a video about it, but then I wasn't seeking attention as this guy clearly is.




    Scot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,256
    Kyleran said:
    Ginaz said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Cotic said:
    What's disingenuous is to take away from what is really going on by trying to be victims as well.

    Of course a person or persons actions does not speak for the whole community but how the community responds to what that person or persons did does reflect on them.
    This is not truthful now, when that youtuber got those threats the thing that he did was went on social media, tag the game and go "Fuck you Community! Fuck you CIG!", so and I was talking this yesterday with others people felt frustrated that something that has nothing to do with us was being put on our backs, considering that unjust.

    That's why those reactions happened, and not unreasonably so, the youtuber later also apologized for the way he overreacted at first.
    Let's see how much you would "overreact" if someone were to threaten your daughter.
    Someone did, I reported them to the game devs, they banned the guy.  He came back 2 or 3 times on new accounts trying to apologize, I reported him, he got banned. Never heard from him again.

    From then on I had new policies on interactions in games and forums.

    No more sharing of RL details such as what city I live in, real first name, (mine is very unique), whether I even have a daughter or her age (she had been playing this particular game at the time) and I no longer took guild leadership positions to keep crazies from focusing on me.

    I did not go to the police nor make a video about it, but then I wasn't seeking attention as this guy clearly is.




    He has a platform and fans on youtube so he used that. I don't see an issue about what he did since he also involved the authorities.
    Phaserlight

  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 932
    I wonder how much more money this scam will be able to suck from the people.
    Nebilim
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited June 2018
    Scot said:
    Ginaz said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Cotic said:
    What's disingenuous is to take away from what is really going on by trying to be victims as well.

    Of course a person or persons actions does not speak for the whole community but how the community responds to what that person or persons did does reflect on them.
    This is not truthful now, when that youtuber got those threats the thing that he did was went on social media, tag the game and go "Fuck you Community! Fuck you CIG!", so and I was talking this yesterday with others people felt frustrated that something that has nothing to do with us was being put on our backs, considering that unjust.

    That's why those reactions happened, and not unreasonably so, the youtuber later also apologized for the way he overreacted at first.
    Let's see how much you would "overreact" if someone were to threaten your daughter.

    If its your daughter, contact the police, we have had cases in the UK of anonymous posters being found, arrested and receiving a sentence.

    If people think social ostracism is called for, report them and they can get temporally or permanently banned which is ostracism right there.

    It does seem to me that social media is turning us into a population who wants to act out their life online rather than do something about it.
    A temp ban will do absolutely nothing to curb the behavior.

    A permanent ban, maybe, but that's a huge maybe.  The punishment to some online account makes less difference than ensuring the person responsible is ID'd specifically and receives an ostracization that is connected to his real ID, not some pseudonym named account online.

    image
  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 564
    That reminds me of that time when a backer was harassed by a whale. He first gifted her ships jpegs, then sent jpegs of his wee-wee. When she complained about it to the RSI staff, fat Lesnick banned her instead of banning the whale perv.

  • CazrielCazriel Member RarePosts: 419
    It's tribal.  Like sports.  The player identifies with the game completely.  An attack on the game is an attack on the player.  The player defends himself (the game) against the horrible thought that there is anything wrong with him.  The less self-esteem the player has, the more pain is inflicted.

    We've all seen this somewhere in our lives, with fellow gamers or sports fans or TV show fans.  The closer the identification, the more a person has invested himself in something outside himself, the worse the injury.   
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