Yes, let's design games to be like they aren't...and to mimic and oldschool game they aren't attempting to mimic. What a strange thread. If it's a PVP focused game, and you like PVE focused games...Don't. Play. It.
It's amusing how, most likely without realizing it, you underlined the biggest problem of those games.... PvP focused or PvE focused.
A true mmoRPg, in a virtual world, should not have that kind of focus. Both aspect should be balanced. Problem is, PvP always takes over when it's allowed to. Always. Still waiting for a developer who manages to avoid that problem (beside adding PvE servers, of course).
Why? Who says it must be balanced? What game ever has things perfectly balanced?
The answer is simple... because it's SUPPOSED to be a mmo-RP-g. Not damned counterstrike, doom or quake.
And I never used the word "perfectly".
RPG doesn't mean balance between pvp and pve. RPG doesn't even mean the ability to play any role you want to play in a game. So...that isn't the answer.
Yes, let's design games to be like they aren't...and to mimic and oldschool game they aren't attempting to mimic. What a strange thread. If it's a PVP focused game, and you like PVE focused games...Don't. Play. It.
It's amusing how, most likely without realizing it, you underlined the biggest problem of those games.... PvP focused or PvE focused.
A true mmoRPg, in a virtual world, should not have that kind of focus. Both aspect should be balanced. Problem is, PvP always takes over when it's allowed to. Always. Still waiting for a developer who manages to avoid that problem (beside adding PvE servers, of course).
Why? Who says it must be balanced? What game ever has things perfectly balanced?
The answer is simple... because it's SUPPOSED to be a mmo-RP-g. Not damned counterstrike, doom or quake.
And I never used the word "perfectly".
The "RP" aspect, is not properly explained in many PVE focused games. For example, if my enemy faction is indeed my enemy...why can't they just kill me when they see me out in the world? In what fantasy world would that be considered "role-play"? If anything, the fear of another faction attacking me IS roleplay.
As already stated quite a few times, the problem with those games is that none has been done with proper consequences for being a psychopathic murderer. As a result, PvP takes over the whole game, there's no RP left at all. Unless you admit that almost every player is "roleplaying" some kind of serial killer of course.
And when you go kill NPCs, there's a purpose, a quest,
Yes, the quest to be a mass murdering serial killer. That was my point.
Quest giver: Go kill 20 bandits
Quest giver: Go kill 15 Nordic Musclemen
Quest giver: Go recover 5 elven blades (from Elven Swordsmen)
etc... etc... etc...
You literally ARE roleplaying a serial killer in most MMORPGs. So you answered your own point. The games are 95% about killing. By the time you have reached max level the number of kills is at least in the ten thousand range... in some games much much more....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As already stated quite a few times, the problem with those games is that none has been done with proper consequences for being a psychopathic murderer. As a result, PvP takes over the whole game, there's no RP left at all. Unless you admit that almost every player is "roleplaying" some kind of serial killer of course.
And when you go kill NPCs, there's a purpose, a quest,
Yes, the quest to be a mass murdering serial killer. That was my point.
Quest giver: Go kill 20 bandits
Quest giver: Go kill 15 Nordic Musclemen
Quest giver: Go recover 5 elven blades (from Elven Swordsmen)
etc... etc... etc...
You literally ARE roleplaying a serial killer in most MMORPGs. So you answered your own point. The games are 95% about killing. By the time you have reached max level the number of kills is at least in the ten thousand range... in some games much much more....
Not to mention, plenty of games exist that have RP reasons to kill other players. Take for example Warhammer universe, err or Lord of the Rings, or Star Wars, or insert the other 10120321 universes.
Yes, let's design games to be like they aren't...and to mimic and oldschool game they aren't attempting to mimic. What a strange thread. If it's a PVP focused game, and you like PVE focused games...Don't. Play. It.
It's amusing how, most likely without realizing it, you underlined the biggest problem of those games.... PvP focused or PvE focused.
A true mmoRPg, in a virtual world, should not have that kind of focus. Both aspect should be balanced. Problem is, PvP always takes over when it's allowed to. Always. Still waiting for a developer who manages to avoid that problem (beside adding PvE servers, of course).
Maybe because PvE has to be balanced against ridiculous combat numbers (mobs have 100 times your HP... etc...) in an attempt to create a "challenge" since they dumb the AI down far enough that you can literally "pull" the King's Guards one at a time from his throne room to the corner and murder them while he sits on his throne oblivious to the carnage? What we need is legitimate AI so that you can't easily tell that it's an NPC or another player.
THAT would be putting the RP into MMORPG. You shouldn't treat NPC or PCs differently if you were really roleplaying.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Different server types used to be a good solution, until there became so many games that there wasn't enough population.
I for one LOVE open world PvP, but I also like some PvE. The problem is that the PvE (the way it is set up now) lends itself to griefing etc. on PvP games. The solution seemed to be using POI. Star Wars Galaxies did this well and I think Darkfall did as well.
Factions and guild wars are also a great solution. I am looking forward to WoWs solution to see how much I play either. They way they have balanced it with Experience should make it just what I am looking for.
Different server types used to be a good solution, until there became so many games that there wasn't enough population.
I for one LOVE open world PvP, but I also like some PvE. The problem is that the PvE (the way it is set up now) lends itself to griefing etc. on PvP games. The solution seemed to be using POI. Star Wars Galaxies did this well and I think Darkfall did as well.
Factions and guild wars are also a great solution. I am looking forward to WoWs solution to see how much I play either. They way they have balanced it with Experience should make it just what I am looking for.
Factions are one of the easiest ways to balance this. Shame because I love guild wars, but I just don't think it's worth the amount of headaches to balance that since you need to implement a morality system (and one that works).
Different server types used to be a good solution, until there became so many games that there wasn't enough population.
I for one LOVE open world PvP, but I also like some PvE. The problem is that the PvE (the way it is set up now) lends itself to griefing etc. on PvP games. The solution seemed to be using POI. Star Wars Galaxies did this well and I think Darkfall did as well.
Factions and guild wars are also a great solution. I am looking forward to WoWs solution to see how much I play either. They way they have balanced it with Experience should make it just what I am looking for.
Isn't the solution to this simply what GW2 does? You can take your pve char to the pvp server at will. So a person who wants to pve can just play pve, and when they're in the mood for pvp or if they only wanna pvp they basically live and breathe in the pvp world.
But yea you would have ot have factions to make that work, otherwise you're doing matches and waiting for matchmaking which sucks for obvious reasons. Granted i don't see many games doing this approach because you're essentially building 2 different games to do this.
As already stated quite a few times, the problem with those games is that none has been done with proper consequences for being a psychopathic murderer. As a result, PvP takes over the whole game, there's no RP left at all. Unless you admit that almost every player is "roleplaying" some kind of serial killer of course.
And when you go kill NPCs, there's a purpose, a quest,
Yes, the quest to be a mass murdering serial killer. That was my point.
Quest giver: Go kill 20 bandits
Quest giver: Go kill 15 Nordic Musclemen
Quest giver: Go recover 5 elven blades (from Elven Swordsmen)
etc... etc... etc...
You literally ARE roleplaying a serial killer in most MMORPGs. So you answered your own point. The games are 95% about killing. By the time you have reached max level the number of kills is at least in the ten thousand range... in some games much much more....
PvE game:
- The village is under attack by bandits, if not stopped they will kill our children and rape our women. Please stop them by any means possible.
- The elves have stolen our weapon supplies, please recover them.
PvP game:
- There's no reason for me to do that, but I'm going to kill some defenseless newbies because I'm roleplaying one of the many psychopathic killers in this PvP game. And I'm going to camp their bodies and graveyard to make it worse, I may even make some quit the game which will make my day.
So because there are crazy people in the world, everyone else is bad too?
There's murderers that exist in real life, people who kill for no reason. Does that make self-defense reprehensible? Does that mean other people can't have meaning?
Some guy might kill a newbie for no reason then "he's a newbie". But I kill a player, because he's in my territory and apart of the enemy faction...to which I have a plethora of lore reasons to kill. Say for example, they stole our key artifact. Or the billion of other reasons.
In fact, you can take your exact scenario...
- The village is under attack by bandits, if not stopped they will kill our children and rape our women. Please stop them by any means possible.
- The elves have stolen our weapon supplies, please recover them.
And the only difference is they are actual players.
It's not an equivalent argument, and you know that
- The village is under attack by bandits, if not stopped they will kill our children and rape our women. Please stop them by any means possible.
- The elves have stolen our weapon supplies, please recover them.
And the only difference is they are actual players.
It's not an equivalent argument, and you know that
That's called PvP with a scenario... battlegrounds... or whatever else games call them. FFA PvP never turns that way. It SHOULD in an ideal world, but fact is, it never does. It always turns into a chaotic gank fest.
And you know that... or if you don't, well, then you lack experience with PvP games and you aren't qualified to express facts about them.
No it isn't. It can be roleplayed in a full-loot PVP scenario. Because if you need X resource, and it's being guarded by an enemy. Then you engage in a PVP fight. Many many MANY PVP MMOs already have this sort of thing.
The problem with many of them, is they don't have enough consequences for doing pvp that ISN'T based on an objective. Like griefing. This was Darkfall Online's biggest issue.
Oh and yes, I am a new guy to MMOs! I know nothing
As already stated quite a few times, the problem with those games is that none has been done with proper consequences for being a psychopathic murderer. As a result, PvP takes over the whole game, there's no RP left at all. Unless you admit that almost every player is "roleplaying" some kind of serial killer of course.
And when you go kill NPCs, there's a purpose, a quest,
Yes, the quest to be a mass murdering serial killer. That was my point.
Quest giver: Go kill 20 bandits
Quest giver: Go kill 15 Nordic Musclemen
Quest giver: Go recover 5 elven blades (from Elven Swordsmen)
etc... etc... etc...
You literally ARE roleplaying a serial killer in most MMORPGs. So you answered your own point. The games are 95% about killing. By the time you have reached max level the number of kills is at least in the ten thousand range... in some games much much more....
PvE game:
- The village is under attack by bandits, if not stopped they will kill our children and rape our women. Please stop them by any means possible.
- The elves have stolen our weapon supplies, please recover them.
PvP game:
- There's no reason for me to do that, but I'm going to kill some defenseless newbies because I'm roleplaying one of the many psychopathic killers in this PvP game. And I'm going to camp their bodies and graveyard to make it worse, I may even make some quit the game which will make my day.
So because there are crazy people in the world, everyone else is bad too?
There's murderers that exist in real life, people who kill for no reason. Does that make self-defense reprehensible? Does that mean other people can't have meaning?
Some guy might kill a newbie for no reason then "he's a newbie". But I kill a player, because he's in my territory and apart of the enemy faction...to which I have a plethora of lore reasons to kill. Say for example, they stole our key artifact. Or the billion of other reasons.
In fact, you can take your exact scenario...
- The village is under attack by bandits, if not stopped they will kill our children and rape our women. Please stop them by any means possible.
- The elves have stolen our weapon supplies, please recover them.
And the only difference is they are actual players.
It's not an equivalent argument, and you know that
Even in times of war, there are many examples of combatants not wholesale slaughtering enemies that are, for the most part, defenseless. So, at best, if you're ganking lowbies, a large portion of your own faction would be disgusted with you, unless your faction was a bunch of lawless, morality-void ravagers.
And then that doesn't even begin to touch upon how this is a game in the end, and no one really likes spending their free time staring at a death screen they couldn't avoid because their killer is a stacked out max level character that's untouchable.
The idea that "it's the enemy" is merely a convenient excuse for gankers to murder lowbies over and over.
EDIT- Actually not a bad idea for a deterrent system. The shadier parts of your NPC faction would be okay with you slaughtering lowbies, but the civilized parts (i.e. Stormwind, Thunder Bluff Tauren, etc.) would become damn near hostile at your lack of morality. So you can gank defenseless lowbies all you like, just be prepared to be treated accordingly by your NPC faction.
Quest giver: Go recover 5 elven blades (from Elven Swordsmen)
etc... etc... etc...
PvE game:
- The village is under attack by bandits, if not stopped they will kill our children and rape our women. Please stop them by any means possible.
- The elves have stolen our weapon supplies, please recover them before they use them against us to slaughter us.
PvP game:
- There's no reason for me to do that, but I'm going to kill some defenseless newbies because I'm roleplaying one of the many psychopathic killers in this PvP game. And I'm going to camp their bodies and graveyard to make it worse, I may even make some quit the game which will make my day.
You
literally ARE roleplaying a serial killer in most MMORPGs. So you
answered your own point
Unless you consider the policeman defending the innocent a serial killer, you don't make any sense.
Come on you know that's bullshit. I can find as many PvE quests that have nothing to do with "protecting people" as you can find...
And just because there is no guy with a big yellow ? Over his head doesn't mean you don't have purpose/orders/quests in PvP.
Clan Leader: You 5 go raid the enemy village and try to disrupt their blacksmiths from forging weapons.
GuildMaster: The foul Fjordlings are mining steel in the hills which they will turn into armor for their raiders. Go stop them and try to recover what they have mined.
Alliance Leader: The enemy is at the gates of Castle Beoryn. Rally at Fort Cytop and we shall strike them from behind!
If it makes you feel better we can ask that Alliance/Clan/Group leaders get big yellow ? in games...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
No it isn't. It can be roleplayed in a full-loot PVP scenario.
It COULD be role-played. It SHOULD be role-played.
But it is NOT. Well, let's be nice, almost never.
Yeah just like the PvE party COULD roleplay when they attack the castle, but it's almost never done. Instead the groups will pull guards 1 at a time. Sit in a hallway and rest... etc.. etc..
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"non-consensual pvp" is one of the silliest overused words by people on this forum.
Find another word to describe how you feel.
I remember at the beginning of Aion (I think it's RIGHT after you get your wings) there's a little beach area with an elite mobb patrolling it (mind you this was my first MMORPG). I was doing the quests for that area wasn't really paying attention and it got the drop on me and murdered my face because I thought I would be able to defend myself. If I was like some of you, I'd keep the emotional baggage forever and call it "non-consensual pve" and campaign against games with elite mobs in low level areas... perpetually.
FFS man, if you bought a game with OWPVP you consented. That's it. There's great games with no OWPVP in it. Go that way and cut this madness TF out.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
PvE does NOT imply real human beings on the receiving end. So there's no real persons "griefed".
I will not reply any further posts making that kind of comparison because it's just... you know... silly, nonsense. You do not ruin the day of a NPC if you kill him, even 10 times in a row. You do ruin the fun of another low level player in PvP if you do so, though.
If you do want me to argue with you, try to make sense and compare what is comparable.
Laughable argument. If you are ROLEPLAYING which you claim is important, there should be no distinction based on who is controlling the enemy. All you are admitting is that your roleplaying excuse is pathetic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
PvE does NOT imply real human beings on the receiving end. So there's no real persons "griefed".
I will not reply any further posts making that kind of comparison because it's just... you know... silly, nonsense. You do not ruin the day of a NPC if you kill him, even 10 times in a row. You do ruin the fun of another low level player in PvP if you do so, though.
If you do want me to argue with you, try to make sense and compare what is comparable.
Laughable argument. If you are ROLEPLAYING which you claim is important, there should be no distinction based on who is controlling the enemy. All you are admitting is that your roleplaying excuse is pathetic.
Killing defenseless lowbies would earn you the title of coward if we were role-playing.
PvE does NOT imply real human beings on the receiving end. So there's no real persons "griefed".
I will not reply any further posts making that kind of comparison because it's just... you know... silly, nonsense. You do not ruin the day of a NPC if you kill him, even 10 times in a row. You do ruin the fun of another low level player in PvP if you do so, though.
If you do want me to argue with you, try to make sense and compare what is comparable.
Laughable argument. If you are ROLEPLAYING which you claim is important, there should be no distinction based on who is controlling the enemy. All you are admitting is that your roleplaying excuse is pathetic.
Killing defenseless lowbies would earn you the title of coward if we were role-playing.
Or you could be seen as a ruthless but efficient general weeding out a future threat. In a ton of chinese literature, the MC does things just like that essentially. They'll bide their time to get powerful enough and completely eradicate their enemies family for past transgressions so that they won't have to deal with a loved one growing up and coming for them for revenge.
PvE does NOT imply real human beings on the receiving end. So there's no real persons "griefed".
I will not reply any further posts making that kind of comparison because it's just... you know... silly, nonsense. You do not ruin the day of a NPC if you kill him, even 10 times in a row. You do ruin the fun of another low level player in PvP if you do so, though.
If you do want me to argue with you, try to make sense and compare what is comparable.
Laughable argument. If you are ROLEPLAYING which you claim is important, there should be no distinction based on who is controlling the enemy. All you are admitting is that your roleplaying excuse is pathetic.
Killing defenseless lowbies would earn you the title of coward if we were role-playing.
Totally agree. Whether those were defenseless NPCs or Players.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The problem with many of them, is they don't have enough consequences for doing pvp that ISN'T based on an objective. Like griefing.
Now you're making sense... or not, because you actually agree with me
So should we just quietly admit your wrong so we don't have to carry on this embarrassment? Because two of the most popular MMORPGs on the market, both have a open world pvp zone that has a plethora of objectives which mimic the scenario you implied couldn't exist.
And I never made an argument that PVP in many MMOs isn't flawed, you just assumed I would blindly nuthug it since that is sort of what you do in the opposite fashion. No, I don't think PVP has been flawlessly executed every. Hell not even done "great".
But to make a silly argument that a PVP fight can't be lore based or RP based...is quite possibly one of the dumbest arguments you could possibly make...because even in the real world, people fight over these EXACT issues on a day to day basis. It's not like it's unheard of in IRL or in a game after all..,
PvE does NOT imply real human beings on the receiving end. So there's no real persons "griefed".
I will not reply any further posts making that kind of comparison because it's just... you know... silly, nonsense. You do not ruin the day of a NPC if you kill him, even 10 times in a row. You do ruin the fun of another low level player in PvP if you do so, though.
If you do want me to argue with you, try to make sense and compare what is comparable.
Laughable argument. If you are ROLEPLAYING which you claim is important, there should be no distinction based on who is controlling the enemy. All you are admitting is that your roleplaying excuse is pathetic.
Killing defenseless lowbies would earn you the title of coward if we were role-playing.
Totally agree. Whether those were defenseless NPCs or Players.
Good thing I don't see a lot of players spending time murdering green/grey con mobs, then.
PvE does NOT imply real human beings on the receiving end. So there's no real persons "griefed".
I will not reply any further posts making that kind of comparison because it's just... you know... silly, nonsense. You do not ruin the day of a NPC if you kill him, even 10 times in a row. You do ruin the fun of another low level player in PvP if you do so, though.
If you do want me to argue with you, try to make sense and compare what is comparable.
Laughable argument. If you are ROLEPLAYING which you claim is important, there should be no distinction based on who is controlling the enemy. All you are admitting is that your roleplaying excuse is pathetic.
Killing defenseless lowbies would earn you the title of coward if we were role-playing.
Jean-Luc_Picard is so hypocrite as he could be. At one side some crazy gankers kill defenseless noobs in every MMORPG with OW FFA PvP. And these gankers play the role of sociopaths. At the other side the real RP is only PvE. It does not exist in the PvP. All PvP lovers are simply sociopaths. And he claims he played L2, EVE, Fortnite, UO and etc. - literally every game made. My conclusion - he is a hypocrite liar. And probably the only game he really played, but not just tried, is WoW.
Not at all.
Just like in real life, if someone attacks someone, but there's legitimate cause (threatening the lives of others or the person), cool.
If we're talking a defenseless opponent who is, say, currently engaged battling a wild boar? Nobody in their right minds would call that honorable or see it as a positive to ambush said person (remember, if they're battling a wild boar, unless you happen to own said boar, he's not harming you or any of your allies in any way).
Again, combatants in real life don't go around slaughtering defenseless opponents. Those that do earn the title appropriate from the rest of the watching world. Coward, monster, etc..
Good thing I don't see a lot of players spending time murdering green/grey con mobs, then.
Red in many modern MMOs are also defenseless. In fact I cannot remember the last time mob in a MMO killed my character. Probably it was when I learned how to play MMOs. If I compare with DS, well I actually can't.
Okay, then post a video of your aggroing a red con mob and standing there. If he's defenseless, it shouldn't be able to injure your character or, god forbid, kill you. If it can, your argument falls apart completely.
Good thing I don't see a lot of players spending time murdering green/grey con mobs, then.
Red in many modern MMOs are also defenseless. In fact I cannot remember the last time mob in a MMO killed my character. Probably it was when I learned how to play MMOs. If I compare with DS, well I actually can't.
Okay, then post a video of your aggroing a red con mob and standing there. If he's defenseless, it shouldn't be able to injure your character or, god forbid, kill you. If it can, your argument falls apart completely.
So defenseless is now only defined by the lack of ability to damage a character? This seems a bit pedantic when you know he is referring to the mob's ability to actually kill him. In a game where your injuries magically seal up seconds after you sit down any injury that is not fatal is inconsequential.
Yeah the red mob can reduce your arbitrary HP numbers but unless it can kill you without relying on you falling asleep at the keyboard then it is by all reasonable measures defenseless.
This is like saying that a man who is 30 feet away with a sword while you have a shotgun is able to defend himself.
"Well if you hold still and don't move he could kill you!"
Yes, he could; but I'm not just going to stand there and every single time you run that scenario he's going to come out the loser. He is for all practical purposes defenseless.
The problem today is the Devs. If you build a house and set the rules for living in that house and are responsible for the enforcement of those rules. It's on you. Players have a responsibility to follow the rules but the people who made the game set the rules and are responsible for enforcing them.
Now if the rules for XYZ game are anything goes then don't complain if you get camped and repeatedly PK'ed and trashed. Also don't complain if such a game is empty because no one seems to like such games but a few.
I'm amazed that pure open world PvP full loot games are still a goal but some people have a dream and that's what they want to create. So I respect them for at least trying and wish them the best.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Title of thread is 100% correct however if you are a low budget,small team developer how are you going to compete? They can't so they try and sell us PVP focused "lack of content" type design's.PVP is also a nice platform to support a cash shop so again this plays into the low budget operations that want a f2p gimmick with cash shop.
When i see a cash shop or pvp..not interested.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Just a Sullustan tryna get a nut.
Quest giver: Go kill 20 bandits
Quest giver: Go kill 15 Nordic Musclemen
Quest giver: Go recover 5 elven blades (from Elven Swordsmen)
etc...
etc...
etc...
You literally ARE roleplaying a serial killer in most MMORPGs. So you answered your own point. The games are 95% about killing. By the time you have reached max level the number of kills is at least in the ten thousand range... in some games much much more....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Plenty of lore-based reasons to PK other players.
Just a Sullustan tryna get a nut.
THAT would be putting the RP into MMORPG. You shouldn't treat NPC or PCs differently if you were really roleplaying.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I for one LOVE open world PvP, but I also like some PvE. The problem is that the PvE (the way it is set up now) lends itself to griefing etc. on PvP games. The solution seemed to be using POI. Star Wars Galaxies did this well and I think Darkfall did as well.
Factions and guild wars are also a great solution. I am looking forward to WoWs solution to see how much I play either. They way they have balanced it with Experience should make it just what I am looking for.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Just a Sullustan tryna get a nut.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
There's murderers that exist in real life, people who kill for no reason. Does that make self-defense reprehensible? Does that mean other people can't have meaning?
Some guy might kill a newbie for no reason then "he's a newbie". But I kill a player, because he's in my territory and apart of the enemy faction...to which I have a plethora of lore reasons to kill. Say for example, they stole our key artifact. Or the billion of other reasons.
In fact, you can take your exact scenario...
And the only difference is they are actual players.
It's not an equivalent argument, and you know that
Just a Sullustan tryna get a nut.
The problem with many of them, is they don't have enough consequences for doing pvp that ISN'T based on an objective. Like griefing. This was Darkfall Online's biggest issue.
Oh and yes, I am a new guy to MMOs! I know nothing
Just a Sullustan tryna get a nut.
And then that doesn't even begin to touch upon how this is a game in the end, and no one really likes spending their free time staring at a death screen they couldn't avoid because their killer is a stacked out max level character that's untouchable.
The idea that "it's the enemy" is merely a convenient excuse for gankers to murder lowbies over and over.
EDIT- Actually not a bad idea for a deterrent system. The shadier parts of your NPC faction would be okay with you slaughtering lowbies, but the civilized parts (i.e. Stormwind, Thunder Bluff Tauren, etc.) would become damn near hostile at your lack of morality. So you can gank defenseless lowbies all you like, just be prepared to be treated accordingly by your NPC faction.
And just because there is no guy with a big yellow ? Over his head doesn't mean you don't have purpose/orders/quests in PvP.
Clan Leader: You 5 go raid the enemy village and try to disrupt their blacksmiths from forging weapons.
GuildMaster: The foul Fjordlings are mining steel in the hills which they will turn into armor for their raiders. Go stop them and try to recover what they have mined.
Alliance Leader: The enemy is at the gates of Castle Beoryn. Rally at Fort Cytop and we shall strike them from behind!
If it makes you feel better we can ask that Alliance/Clan/Group leaders get big yellow ? in games...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Find another word to describe how you feel.
I remember at the beginning of Aion (I think it's RIGHT after you get your wings) there's a little beach area with an elite mobb patrolling it (mind you this was my first MMORPG). I was doing the quests for that area wasn't really paying attention and it got the drop on me and murdered my face because I thought I would be able to defend myself. If I was like some of you, I'd keep the emotional baggage forever and call it "non-consensual pve" and campaign against games with elite mobs in low level areas... perpetually.
FFS man, if you bought a game with OWPVP you consented. That's it. There's great games with no OWPVP in it. Go that way and cut this madness TF out.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And I never made an argument that PVP in many MMOs isn't flawed, you just assumed I would blindly nuthug it since that is sort of what you do in the opposite fashion. No, I don't think PVP has been flawlessly executed every. Hell not even done "great".
But to make a silly argument that a PVP fight can't be lore based or RP based...is quite possibly one of the dumbest arguments you could possibly make...because even in the real world, people fight over these EXACT issues on a day to day basis. It's not like it's unheard of in IRL or in a game after all..,
Just a Sullustan tryna get a nut.
Just like in real life, if someone attacks someone, but there's legitimate cause (threatening the lives of others or the person), cool.
If we're talking a defenseless opponent who is, say, currently engaged battling a wild boar? Nobody in their right minds would call that honorable or see it as a positive to ambush said person (remember, if they're battling a wild boar, unless you happen to own said boar, he's not harming you or any of your allies in any way).
Again, combatants in real life don't go around slaughtering defenseless opponents. Those that do earn the title appropriate from the rest of the watching world. Coward, monster, etc..
Yeah the red mob can reduce your arbitrary HP numbers but unless it can kill you without relying on you falling asleep at the keyboard then it is by all reasonable measures defenseless.
This is like saying that a man who is 30 feet away with a sword while you have a shotgun is able to defend himself.
"Well if you hold still and don't move he could kill you!"
Yes, he could; but I'm not just going to stand there and every single time you run that scenario he's going to come out the loser. He is for all practical purposes defenseless.
Now if the rules for XYZ game are anything goes then don't complain if you get camped and repeatedly PK'ed and trashed. Also don't complain if such a game is empty because no one seems to like such games but a few.
I'm amazed that pure open world PvP full loot games are still a goal but some people have a dream and that's what they want to create. So I respect them for at least trying and wish them the best.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
They can't so they try and sell us PVP focused "lack of content" type design's.PVP is also a nice platform to support a cash shop so again this plays into the low budget operations that want a f2p gimmick with cash shop.
When i see a cash shop or pvp..not interested.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.