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TheHiveLeader Heals the Devs in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Pre-Alpha - Pantheon: Rise of the Falle

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,834
    Haha,MANY people still had not hit max level a full year or more later in early FFXI days but in Wow it has ALWAYS been a RACE.
    I have never seen anyone do a speed run of FFXI but inside of WOW yep.
    Now i can't say for certain it was Blizzard's fault,imo it is the players,they are the ones who 100%most certainly RACE to end level.

    Just look at AOC,when that game arrived many from Wow and other games jumped in to try it out.
    What was the first complaints?I am at max level and there is a lack of content and that was like 1-2 months into the game wtf is that al about ,what are players trying to prove by RACING?

    In case people are just fanbois,Blizzard proved it anyhow,WORLD firsts,server firsts,what does that encourage if not RACING?When we played FFXI that sort of BRAGGING me me stuff just never happened,instead we looked forward to meeting up with friends to game online and just enjoy the game,it was NEVER about ANY kind of racing.
    Blizzard encourages racing in pretty much ALL their games,top rank bla bla bla,me me me look at me.
    I sometimes wonder if people pay attention AT ALL to the very games they play?

    BruceYee

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,663
    I've tried discord in a couple other games...tbh I don't see what is so great about it...I'd just as soon use in game communication.
    Kyleran
  • sakersaker Member UncommonPosts: 1,284
    edited May 2018
    Looks like a REAL EQ3, which pleases me very much! I have no use for the current type MMO, hyper-twitchy b.s, nope, not for me. Not saying it's "perfect" (whatever that would mean), I mean the camping with others... Not my favorite idea, trains from idiots never welcome. Would personally prefer some instancing, but, whatever, nothings "perfect".
  • vectrexevovectrexevo Member UncommonPosts: 167
    Is this a real game?
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,941
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Iselinblueturtle13Sovrath
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited May 2018
    Torval said:
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Good point.

    Rift Prime lost me for the same reasons you mentioned.  It still seemed as if leveling was merely one, long tutorial for the endgame, where the "real" game was.  It was as much about the player mentality as it was the design.  You literally saw folks in general chat bitching about how they were done with leveling and wanted to get to the real game already.  I laughed; the irony was simply too much.
    TorvalNyctelios

    image
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,941
    Torval said:
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Good point.

    Rift Prime lost me for the same reasons you mentioned.  It still seemed as if leveling was merely one, long tutorial for the endgame, where the "real" game was.  It was as much about the player mentality as it was the design.  You literally saw folks in general chat bitching about how they were done with leveling and wanted to get to the real game already.  I laughed; the irony was simply too much.
    XP rates were adjusted by player request. People grind Rift trains, dungeons, and battle grounds to hit cap fastest.

    Kano's illustration of how his guild eats through content is pretty much how most seem to want to play. And that's fine for them. Who am I to tell them what and how to enjoy it? I'm not on that page though and don't want to play MMOs that way. If a server or game feels that way, then my time probably won't be long there. I still have a month of sub time banked I'm going to activate in a couple of months when Ember Isle is in full swing or SL opens. Depends on their timing.
    MadFrenchie
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,397
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Good point.

    Rift Prime lost me for the same reasons you mentioned.  It still seemed as if leveling was merely one, long tutorial for the endgame, where the "real" game was.  It was as much about the player mentality as it was the design.  You literally saw folks in general chat bitching about how they were done with leveling and wanted to get to the real game already.  I laughed; the irony was simply too much.
    XP rates were adjusted by player request. People grind Rift trains, dungeons, and battle grounds to hit cap fastest.

    Kano's illustration of how his guild eats through content is pretty much how most seem to want to play. And that's fine for them. Who am I to tell them what and how to enjoy it? I'm not on that page though and don't want to play MMOs that way. If a server or game feels that way, then my time probably won't be long there. I still have a month of sub time banked I'm going to activate in a couple of months when Ember Isle is in full swing or SL opens. Depends on their timing.
    Kano's illustration is also a good reminder that game design doesn't impact player behavior quite as much as some want to believe. The idea that a retro design will result in a utopian environment with everyone partying like it was 1999 is kind of silly.

    It's equally naive as saying that fast combat prevents players from going slow, RPing and playing in a very old fashioned way if that's how they want to play - it doesn't.

    It's not just the games that have changed the players playing these games have as well and behavior modification by forced game modes ain't going to change that all that much.
    Torvalblueturtle13MadFrenchieKajidourdenMendel
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,603
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Good point.

    Rift Prime lost me for the same reasons you mentioned.  It still seemed as if leveling was merely one, long tutorial for the endgame, where the "real" game was.  It was as much about the player mentality as it was the design.  You literally saw folks in general chat bitching about how they were done with leveling and wanted to get to the real game already.  I laughed; the irony was simply too much.
    XP rates were adjusted by player request. People grind Rift trains, dungeons, and battle grounds to hit cap fastest.

    Kano's illustration of how his guild eats through content is pretty much how most seem to want to play. And that's fine for them. Who am I to tell them what and how to enjoy it? I'm not on that page though and don't want to play MMOs that way. If a server or game feels that way, then my time probably won't be long there. I still have a month of sub time banked I'm going to activate in a couple of months when Ember Isle is in full swing or SL opens. Depends on their timing.
    Kano's illustration is also a good reminder that game design doesn't impact player behavior quite as much as some want to believe. The idea that a retro design will result in a utopian environment with everyone partying like it was 1999 is kind of silly.

    It's equally naive as saying that fast combat prevents players from going slow, RPing and playing in a very old fashioned way if that's how they want to play - it doesn't.

    It's not just the games that have changed the players playing these games have as well and behavior modification by forced game modes ain't going to change that all that much.
    I don't think anyone is saying that it's going to result in some utopian environment.

    I think people are saying that certain mechanics are going to attract people who like those mechanics and want to see them again. And because of those mechanics, it's very possible that x, y and z will happen.

    And has every player changed? really? I know I haven't. At least not for my taste in games. Oh sure, I have my shit together much more than when I first started playing games but my taste in games hasn't changed at all. I can't be the only one.

    The issue here is that there are people who just don't like these things and they are expressing their displeasure. But that doesn't mean everyone is going to agree.

    In the end, they put these mechanics in the game and have quite a few testers who are giving feedback.

    And given what one needs to pay to be a part of this, those are people who were willing to put their money where their mouths were.

    So if they are fine with it then these mechanics will stay. And then those mechanics will attract people who want those mechanics. Or people who will at least be able to tolerate them.

    And as a result we'll see how game play happens. Who knows, maybe they will remove them at some point.

    Or maybe the group of people who are ok with them will stay and development will "follow them" just as Kano suggested.

    I mean, look at Elder scrolls Online and how they had segregated the game and then after a while, they opened it up because a good many players wanted it from the beginning.

    So the question is, who is the bulk group that will be playing this game and what is it that they ultimately want?
    blueturtle13deniterMadFrenchie
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited May 2018
    They're focusing on a specific niche to be sure, but look on the bright side: they could be focusing on a specific, tangentially-related niche within that niche, like their buddies over at DBG. ;)

    Those who find things like Project Gorgon fun will be the type of gamer who's interested in this.  It will have better production values, but likely less indie charm (i.e. PG's very experimental usage of permanent animal forms and skill lines for players).  It will be interesting to see if it drains projects like PG and EQ into a larger, coalesced base, or if Pantheon merely limps alongisde its spiritual predecessor.

    EDIT- To that end, the lizard brain portions of the VG dev's minds have to be hoping fate throws them a bone and DBG shutters EQ.  Those players will be floating in the wind, looking for that similar experience.
    TorvalSovrath

    image
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,025
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Good point.

    Rift Prime lost me for the same reasons you mentioned.  It still seemed as if leveling was merely one, long tutorial for the endgame, where the "real" game was.  It was as much about the player mentality as it was the design.  You literally saw folks in general chat bitching about how they were done with leveling and wanted to get to the real game already.  I laughed; the irony was simply too much.
    XP rates were adjusted by player request. People grind Rift trains, dungeons, and battle grounds to hit cap fastest.

    Kano's illustration of how his guild eats through content is pretty much how most seem to want to play. And that's fine for them. Who am I to tell them what and how to enjoy it? I'm not on that page though and don't want to play MMOs that way. If a server or game feels that way, then my time probably won't be long there. I still have a month of sub time banked I'm going to activate in a couple of months when Ember Isle is in full swing or SL opens. Depends on their timing.
    Kano's illustration is also a good reminder that game design doesn't impact player behavior quite as much as some want to believe. The idea that a retro design will result in a utopian environment with everyone partying like it was 1999 is kind of silly.

    It's equally naive as saying that fast combat prevents players from going slow, RPing and playing in a very old fashioned way if that's how they want to play - it doesn't.

    It's not just the games that have changed the players playing these games have as well and behavior modification by forced game modes ain't going to change that all that much.
    Nail?  Meet head.

    I have a feeling a lot of people preaching this gospel are going to realize their vision of heaven isn't real.
  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 510
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Good point.

    Rift Prime lost me for the same reasons you mentioned.  It still seemed as if leveling was merely one, long tutorial for the endgame, where the "real" game was.  It was as much about the player mentality as it was the design.  You literally saw folks in general chat bitching about how they were done with leveling and wanted to get to the real game already.  I laughed; the irony was simply too much.
    XP rates were adjusted by player request. People grind Rift trains, dungeons, and battle grounds to hit cap fastest.

    Kano's illustration of how his guild eats through content is pretty much how most seem to want to play. And that's fine for them. Who am I to tell them what and how to enjoy it? I'm not on that page though and don't want to play MMOs that way. If a server or game feels that way, then my time probably won't be long there. I still have a month of sub time banked I'm going to activate in a couple of months when Ember Isle is in full swing or SL opens. Depends on their timing.
    Kano's illustration is also a good reminder that game design doesn't impact player behavior quite as much as some want to believe. The idea that a retro design will result in a utopian environment with everyone partying like it was 1999 is kind of silly.

    It's equally naive as saying that fast combat prevents players from going slow, RPing and playing in a very old fashioned way if that's how they want to play - it doesn't.

    It's not just the games that have changed the players playing these games have as well and behavior modification by forced game modes ain't going to change that all that much.

    I haven't agreed with everything you have said in this thread but this point I can fully agree with you on. It doesn't matter the combat style of the game its how the player/group plays as well. Fast can be slow and slow can be fast. Also there WILL be guilds that are max lvl and doing end game dungeons well before the majority and that has happened since eq1.
  • exhellexhell Member UncommonPosts: 37

    Iselin said:

    It definitely is embarrassing.

    Some said they enjoyed watching it... some said they find it boring. This is all fine, especially for a game that is so niche.

    And then someone comes along and starts with the typical condescending shit:

    ...."beating da game"
    ... mad rush to end cap
    ... the hyperactive types ...
    .... just to brag for five minutes
    ... onto the next shiny
    ... those with short attention spans.

    The clueless arrogance of one fanboi slinging insults at those who don't share his passion should be embarrassing indeed.




    We already know this game isn't going to be your forte, as you already said you completely dislike it. Why are you still here, except to be annoying?
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