There has been some confusion concerning Daybreak’s ownership and rumors about the state of the company that have circulated from a few online game websites, and we want to set the record straight. We assure you that these rumors are entirely false and that there’s no impact on our business or games in any way whatsoever.
From the get-go, Daybreak has been primarily owned by Jason Epstein, a longtime investor who also has investments in a variety of media properties. Jason acquired Daybreak (formerly SOE) in February 2015 and has been the executive chairman and majority owner of the company since that time.
We’re well aware of prior statements from Daybreak indicating our company was acquired by Columbus Nova. We have since clarified that the company was acquired by Jason Epstein when he was a partner at Columbus Nova, which he left in 2017. We’ve also taken steps to clarify those facts on our website and on third-party internet sites to ensure that all of the information currently made available is consistent and accurate.
We apologize for the previous miscommunication and hope that this clears up any confusion. As always, we greatly appreciate your continued support for our games, and we'll continue to work hard to bring the best experiences to you.
3 years of miscommunication followed by a flurry of corrections only after the US Treasury department's actions... sure, that's believable
2nd day they posted something like this
It's how you sell the Big Lie: you repeat it over and over until people of average intelligence, not just idiots, believe it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Well, this little piece of information sheds a whole new light on this. This shows Jason Epstein as a manager of the newly acquired DBG, but the address of the acquiring person is listed as the same address as Columbus Nova, so... I don't know.
Okay, the LLC filing created Daybreak Game Company LLC. The LLC filing has to show who is manager of Daybreak. It doesn't say poop about who owns it. Note that the form specifically states that "(a)t least one name and address must be used." Note also that the manger can be an entity and that entity's name would be entered on 5(b) rather than 5(a), which has Jason Epstein's name. Columbus Nova isn't on this form. But again, this form doesn't have to show who owns the LLC.
Sony made this deal and sold its assets to Epstein or CN. The form is signed by David Youssefi, who according to his current California State Bar record, is General Counsel of Daybreak and an attorney in good standing with the Bar.
Note that 15051 Avenue of Science is Daybreak's address.
How to square all the weird things that have/are going on.
Well, if you've never been at the closing of a deal like this, the first thing to know is that there is an absolute shit-ton of paper, think 1 to 2 feet of documents that need to be signed. It is not uncommon for there to be last minute changes as principals insist on little side-deals and sweetners, get cold feet about certain aspects of the deal or want whatever for whatever reason.
It's entirely possible that when the deal was being hammered out it was going to be one way and when it finally got inked, it had gone another.
The other thing to know is that nobody but the transaction lawyers read these effing things. They are the most tiresome boiler-plate documents ever put together to inspire drinking or smoking dope to endure them imaginable. Out of all that crap, there's probably only a dozen pages worth of specific or relevant information about the deal.
So, the deal is inked, money changes hands and somebody tells Smedley that CN has bought his shop. Email? Phone call? Text? Who knows. There doesn't have to be a formal notification. Daybreak isn't a partner in the deal. They don't have a say. They are the object being moved from this guy's bucket to that guy's bucket. They are simply told, you're now in the other guy's bucket. And they say okay and go from there.
In this scenario it's possible that DBG never saw the deal papers and ran with what they were told: CN now owns you.
Then, CN is banned from the US. Suddenly it very, very much matters exactly who owns them. Daybreak's lawyer takes 15 pound deal book off the shelf and starts actually reading it, probably for the first time. Oopsie. CN isn't the owner. Epstein is.
Now their lawyer tells them, you better make sure it's clear who owns Daybreak. This is typical lawyer advice. This is screwed up, fix it asap. So Daybreak runs around in a panic and does a really piss poor job of fixing it, interfering with Wikipedia and pulling down web pages faster than a guy with the Rocky Mountain two-step pulls down his pants.
Number of times you come across lawyers who do not read what they make their clients sign. Here as a client you're expecting the lawyer to have gone through the contract when the file landed on his desk the afternoon before and he may have given a cursory glance if you're lucky. Then when shit hits fan they finally realise what was 'actaully' in it.
I really don't want Everquest and Everquest 2 to fade into history.
I hope not and maybe I am in the minority, but I love DCUO. Plus having a friend who went through 2 studio shutdowns and having been laid off myself, I don't wish that on anyone.
This was a scam from day 1.The fact i was so up in the air about this sale is more obvious now,it never made sense then nor does it now. My hunch is that ONE small avenue was to use DBG as a money dumpster,put loads of debt into it under the guise of CN but when this came about ,all of a sudden they need DBG to be a separate entity.
There was something very dubious going on from the very first day of the sale,this is not a LEGIT business operation. As to reading the documents,i have no doubt what so ever they don't read all the documents,geesh my lawyer barely scrubs over a few liens from 2 pages,all they care about is charging you money for each individual thing they sign or read or investigate.Lawyers are like cash shops,they like to micro manage your money and spend lots of it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This was a scam from day 1.The fact i was so up in the air about this sale is more obvious now,it never made sense then nor does it now. My hunch is that ONE small avenue was to use DBG as a money dumpster,put loads of debt into it under the guise of CN but when this came about ,all of a sudden they need DBG to be a separate entity.
There was something very dubious going on from the very first day of the sale,this is not a LEGIT business operation. As to reading the documents,i have no doubt what so ever they don't read all the documents,geesh my lawyer barely scrubs over a few liens from 2 pages,all they care about is charging you money for each individual thing they sign or read or investigate.Lawyers are like cash shops,they like to micro manage your money and spend lots of it.
I always also said this was a scam from day one.
Why else would an INVESTMENT company with no reason to be in game industry or MMOs buy out a bunch of MMO games?
That is a HUGE red flag
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
This was a scam from day 1.The fact i was so up in the air about this sale is more obvious now,it never made sense then nor does it now. My hunch is that ONE small avenue was to use DBG as a money dumpster,put loads of debt into it under the guise of CN but when this came about ,all of a sudden they need DBG to be a separate entity.
There was something very dubious going on from the very first day of the sale,this is not a LEGIT business operation. As to reading the documents,i have no doubt what so ever they don't read all the documents,geesh my lawyer barely scrubs over a few liens from 2 pages,all they care about is charging you money for each individual thing they sign or read or investigate.Lawyers are like cash shops,they like to micro manage your money and spend lots of it.
I always also said this was a scam from day one.
Why else would an INVESTMENT company with no reason to be in game industry or MMOs buy out a bunch of MMO games?
That is a HUGE red flag
If you want to take the conspiracy theory to the next level you might want to read some of the things DSmart and others have been writing about this. According to them this was always about using MTs for money laundering.
Could be, I suppose, anything's possible. Although I don't have the slightest idea how you launder money through MTs when all of those use digital transactions and not cash. There must be some crucial step I'm missing
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Reading the newest updates it seems a spokeperson is still trying to lay claim CN or Renova never owned DBG.Their claim is that it was an oversight however the distinction that CN owns it all has been relayed EVERYWHERE,so it is not like some one of or two of mistake or typo this has been made VERY clear over and over. So you know how the law likes to create loopholes,i believe most laws have a curvy way of protecting criminals but whatever,power and money is bigger than all of us. Bottom line is this is a LLC,so at worst case the USA government takes it over and sells it off.
I cannot see how any judge sees this as anything other than a VERY sketchy ordeal,so my gut feeling is that DBG will be no more within 3 months.Just like Smedley dumping it off,this will be sold off as well and rumors have it Ashes of Creation studio is in talks and i believe that top be true. However if the USA government takes it over,then Epstein and partners are trying to pull a fast one and pocket some money from a sale before the government takes it over.So down the road,i assume whomever buys this will have to again purchase it from the government or if some sketchy lawyers/judges pass the sale,perhaps they can avoid a government takeover.
Oh yes and with 70 or more layoffs,how many left to actually cal this a studio?So yeah SOE and DBG will disappear forever and the new owner,likely could be AOC team will be the new developer of the games.Point being that somehow,somewhere the EQ franchise will live on and even funnier,i would not be the least surprised to see Smedley back at the helm.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Why else would an INVESTMENT company with no reason to be in game industry or MMOs buy out a bunch of MMO games?
That is a HUGE red flag
Well they already had (still have I assume) Guitar Hero so the games industry was not totally new.
However the reason an investment company would do it is for the cash flow from the - already launched - games. Not to make new games however.
Simple equation basically for a launched game: $X to run it - staff, hardware, IP costs etc.; a history of revenue coming in from which future revenue projection will be made - $Y. Produces ($Y - $X) profit.
They will have done this for all the launched games, added them up and then agreed a price allowing for lay off costs and a sum of money to "finish and launch" EQN with Sony.
(Remember Smed was saying it was "the year of EQN" etc. Once it became clear that EQN was not launching for the allocated sum of they - until Sony who allocated more and still more money - cancelled it.
And that is why CN bought SoE. Not to develop new games simply for the revenue streams.
Imagine if a great studio got hold of these IPs'; DCUO 2, EQ3?
Edited instead of creating another post, but having the same dopey devs from DBG working on the game will not change much. An ideal situation would be a clean out, although the current devs have familiarity with the game. I say shut her down, clean house, and use the IP for the future.
I am not trying to see mepps mug associated with a DCUO sequel. Having the same teams that fans have grown to hate will keep the fans who have grown to hate them & discourage others.
The current devs are bad publicity, based upon Steam, official forums, YouTube, and other media outlets which claim the devs are out of touch. But what can they do? I personally do not want to see these devs come along if the game is moved, but there may not be another way.
Imagine if a great studio got hold of these IPs'; DCUO 2, EQ3?
Edited instead of creating another post, but having the same dopey devs from DBG working on the game will not change much. An ideal situation would be a clean out, although the current devs have familiarity with the game. I say shut her down, clean house, and use the IP for the future.
I am not trying to see mepps mug associated with a DCUO sequel. Having the same teams that fans have grown to hate will keep the fans who have grown to hate them & discourage others.
The current devs are bad publicity, based upon Steam, official forums, YouTube, and other media outlets which claim the devs are out of touch. But what can they do? I personally do not want to see these devs come along if the game is moved, but there may not be another way.
DCUO is a joint venture between DBG(SoE), WarnerBros (think films) and ..... the key partner: DC Comics.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well I doubt Sony will relinquish their own IP would they ? They own 10 % still so they can get it back surely I hope so.
Hopefully it means they have some control over the final dispostion of the IP's in question, although it would be interesting to see which are included, DCUO and Planetside 2 might well be, but H1Z1, maybe not. I guess June will be an interesting months for all sorts of reasons this year
This was a scam from day 1.The fact i was so up in the air about this sale is more obvious now,it never made sense then nor does it now. My hunch is that ONE small avenue was to use DBG as a money dumpster,put loads of debt into it under the guise of CN but when this came about ,all of a sudden they need DBG to be a separate entity.
There was something very dubious going on from the very first day of the sale,this is not a LEGIT business operation. As to reading the documents,i have no doubt what so ever they don't read all the documents,geesh my lawyer barely scrubs over a few liens from 2 pages,all they care about is charging you money for each individual thing they sign or read or investigate.Lawyers are like cash shops,they like to micro manage your money and spend lots of it.
I always also said this was a scam from day one.
Why else would an INVESTMENT company with no reason to be in game industry or MMOs buy out a bunch of MMO games?
That is a HUGE red flag
Especially from a floundering company with games that are dying.
Well I doubt Sony will relinquish their own IP would they ? They own 10 % still so they can get it back surely I hope so.
Hopefully it means they have some control over the final dispostion of the IP's in question, although it would be interesting to see which are included, DCUO and Planetside 2 might well be, but H1Z1, maybe not. I guess June will be an interesting months for all sorts of reasons this year
As far as the EQ IP goes Sony may have some "control" - maybe just the right to match another buyers price; my reasoning being that at the time of the take-over valuing the EQ IP will have been very difficult. CN will not have wanted to "over-pay" whilst Sony would want to avoid a SW IP scenario.
DCUO is a another fish entirely. DC are the prinary IP drivers; WarnerBros the secondary IP driver. Basically SoE now DBG just provide the game mechanics. A joint venture as well rather than a licensed IP deal so all parties should have some say.
Planetside and H1Z1 especially I would expect to belong totally to DBG. A chance that Sony retained some finger in the pie maybe. Again depends in part what CN paid upfront.
Why else would an INVESTMENT company with no reason to be in game industry or MMOs buy out a bunch of MMO games?
That is a HUGE red flag
only thing i could come up with is money laundering
As I posted above for the revenue stream from the games that had been launched. Think of it as putting money into an investment account to earn interest.
The mistake you are making - I suggest - is that you are thinking of DBG as a "game company" that "develops" games. Think of it as a company that collects the money and "feeds and waters the existing plants until they die" and it will make more sense.
Word of caution for anyone with CC info with them, i'd be canceling and/or removing all that info, hate to be unable to after the fact in case anything does happen.
This kinda bit Daybreak in the butt, we've apparently had all the wrong info of what happened after SOE washed their hands of them, but did they let us know, guess that shows how much we matter to them.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
Comments
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Sony made this deal and sold its assets to Epstein or CN. The form is signed by David Youssefi, who according to his current California State Bar record, is General Counsel of Daybreak and an attorney in good standing with the Bar.
http://members.calbar.ca.gov/fal/Member/Detail/208562
Note that 15051 Avenue of Science is Daybreak's address.
How to square all the weird things that have/are going on.
Well, if you've never been at the closing of a deal like this, the first thing to know is that there is an absolute shit-ton of paper, think 1 to 2 feet of documents that need to be signed. It is not uncommon for there to be last minute changes as principals insist on little side-deals and sweetners, get cold feet about certain aspects of the deal or want whatever for whatever reason.
It's entirely possible that when the deal was being hammered out it was going to be one way and when it finally got inked, it had gone another.
The other thing to know is that nobody but the transaction lawyers read these effing things. They are the most tiresome boiler-plate documents ever put together to inspire drinking or smoking dope to endure them imaginable. Out of all that crap, there's probably only a dozen pages worth of specific or relevant information about the deal.
So, the deal is inked, money changes hands and somebody tells Smedley that CN has bought his shop. Email? Phone call? Text? Who knows. There doesn't have to be a formal notification. Daybreak isn't a partner in the deal. They don't have a say. They are the object being moved from this guy's bucket to that guy's bucket. They are simply told, you're now in the other guy's bucket. And they say okay and go from there.
In this scenario it's possible that DBG never saw the deal papers and ran with what they were told: CN now owns you.
Then, CN is banned from the US. Suddenly it very, very much matters exactly who owns them. Daybreak's lawyer takes 15 pound deal book off the shelf and starts actually reading it, probably for the first time. Oopsie. CN isn't the owner. Epstein is.
Now their lawyer tells them, you better make sure it's clear who owns Daybreak. This is typical lawyer advice. This is screwed up, fix it asap. So Daybreak runs around in a panic and does a really piss poor job of fixing it, interfering with Wikipedia and pulling down web pages faster than a guy with the Rocky Mountain two-step pulls down his pants.
And that's how something like this gets FUBAR.
I really don't want Everquest and Everquest 2 to fade into history.
My hunch is that ONE small avenue was to use DBG as a money dumpster,put loads of debt into it under the guise of CN but when this came about ,all of a sudden they need DBG to be a separate entity.
There was something very dubious going on from the very first day of the sale,this is not a LEGIT business operation.
As to reading the documents,i have no doubt what so ever they don't read all the documents,geesh my lawyer barely scrubs over a few liens from 2 pages,all they care about is charging you money for each individual thing they sign or read or investigate.Lawyers are like cash shops,they like to micro manage your money and spend lots of it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Why else would an INVESTMENT company with no reason to be in game industry or MMOs buy out a bunch of MMO games?
That is a HUGE red flag
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Could be, I suppose, anything's possible. Although I don't have the slightest idea how you launder money through MTs when all of those use digital transactions and not cash. There must be some crucial step I'm missing
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
So you know how the law likes to create loopholes,i believe most laws have a curvy way of protecting criminals but whatever,power and money is bigger than all of us.
Bottom line is this is a LLC,so at worst case the USA government takes it over and sells it off.
I cannot see how any judge sees this as anything other than a VERY sketchy ordeal,so my gut feeling is that DBG will be no more within 3 months.Just like Smedley dumping it off,this will be sold off as well and rumors have it Ashes of Creation studio is in talks and i believe that top be true.
However if the USA government takes it over,then Epstein and partners are trying to pull a fast one and pocket some money from a sale before the government takes it over.So down the road,i assume whomever buys this will have to again purchase it from the government or if some sketchy lawyers/judges pass the sale,perhaps they can avoid a government takeover.
Oh yes and with 70 or more layoffs,how many left to actually cal this a studio?So yeah SOE and DBG will disappear forever and the new owner,likely could be AOC team will be the new developer of the games.Point being that somehow,somewhere the EQ franchise will live on and even funnier,i would not be the least surprised to see Smedley back at the helm.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
However the reason an investment company would do it is for the cash flow from the - already launched - games. Not to make new games however.
Simple equation basically for a launched game: $X to run it - staff, hardware, IP costs etc.; a history of revenue coming in from which future revenue projection will be made - $Y. Produces ($Y - $X) profit.
They will have done this for all the launched games, added them up and then agreed a price allowing for lay off costs and a sum of money to "finish and launch" EQN with Sony.
(Remember Smed was saying it was "the year of EQN" etc. Once it became clear that EQN was not launching for the allocated sum of they - until Sony who allocated more and still more money - cancelled it.
And that is why CN bought SoE. Not to develop new games simply for the revenue streams.
Edited instead of creating another post, but having the same dopey devs from DBG working on the game will not change much. An ideal situation would be a clean out, although the current devs have familiarity with the game. I say shut her down, clean house, and use the IP for the future.
I am not trying to see mepps mug associated with a DCUO sequel. Having the same teams that fans have grown to hate will keep the fans who have grown to hate them & discourage others.
The current devs are bad publicity, based upon Steam, official forums, YouTube, and other media outlets which claim the devs are out of touch. But what can they do? I personally do not want to see these devs come along if the game is moved, but there may not be another way.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MAGA
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As far as the EQ IP goes Sony may have some "control" - maybe just the right to match another buyers price; my reasoning being that at the time of the take-over valuing the EQ IP will have been very difficult. CN will not have wanted to "over-pay" whilst Sony would want to avoid a SW IP scenario.
DCUO is a another fish entirely. DC are the prinary IP drivers; WarnerBros the secondary IP driver. Basically SoE now DBG just provide the game mechanics. A joint venture as well rather than a licensed IP deal so all parties should have some say.
Planetside and H1Z1 especially I would expect to belong totally to DBG. A chance that Sony retained some finger in the pie maybe. Again depends in part what CN paid upfront.
The mistake you are making - I suggest - is that you are thinking of DBG as a "game company" that "develops" games. Think of it as a company that collects the money and "feeds and waters the existing plants until they die" and it will make more sense.
This kinda bit Daybreak in the butt, we've apparently had all the wrong info of what happened after SOE washed their hands of them, but did they let us know, guess that shows how much we matter to them.