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TheHiveLeader Heals the Devs in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Pre-Alpha - Pantheon: Rise of the Falle

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,196
    Xodic said:
    It's looking great. The animations and sound could use some work in order to get a feeling of impact, but other than that .... I'm excited. I don't see anything boring about the overall combat design, but I'm also a die hard turn based strategy and tactics game player. If you fell asleep during this video, then half of my game library would put you into a non-recoverable coma. Fortunately, there are no shortage of MMOs where you face-pull everything in range and spam an AOE, or have to constantly press numbers 1 - 0 to feel like you're doing something - some even do them in "innovative ways"...

    They talked about a lot of old school design philosophy that should bring a lot of the magic back. My favorite being that areas and dungeons aren't designed with a narrow level range, allowing higher level players and lower level players to co-inhabit them.
    I was strategy gamer long before I even owned a computer. I still have many of those Avalon Hill games and many old issues of Strategy and Tactics magazine. I still play many strategy games as well as turn-based RPGs.

    You're going to have to try harder to dismiss the reasons for my boredom.
    blueturtle13
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • MendelMendel Member RarePosts: 2,368
    We want the challenge of old school but not the tedium....So far I am seeing more tedium than challenge....It also seems way too much like EQ...While it was fun in its day, I dont really want to do that again.
    The 'deja vu' aspects of Pantheon are going to be a significant hurdle for VR to tackle.  So far, there hasn't been anything that really adds spice to the old EQ1 formula.  Will there be?  I don't know.  At this point, I don't think anything beyond what we are seeing is being planned.


    Going back to the past to give hope to the future is not my idea of a fun time. 
    Pantheon honestly does nothing for me. 
    They seem to have a passion for it and there are many players who are looking forward to this time of game. I am just not one of them. I have played this experience already many times before. 
    I wish them luck! 
    Pantheon seems to be that wants to recreate 1999.  The followers also seem to want that.  We've already seen numerous posters on this site that were once fervent supporters now beginning to question if this game will succeed.  What is popular now may not be popular when the product is delivered.  Just like book publishing, games can't aim for yesterday's targets and hope to be successful.  New ideas are what sells, not always regurgitated ideas from days long gone.

    At some point, VR is going to need to appeal to a different market.  After all, those EQ1 and UO and AC players that abandoned the original old-school games aren't going to come back.  They have experienced new things, different things.  The light of nostalgia doesn't make the old ideas better, it has always been a short term phenomena.

    Besides, what company wants to rely on a core market that has already proven to be so fickle?




    blueturtle13

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 14,305
    edited April 29
    lindhsky said:
    I consider myself an old school player, but the more I listen to the developers the more I understand that the things they consider old school is no longer appealing to me. Sure the system with different roles for every class is something I love. I also love the classes they have planned. But downtime between fights, camping a dungeon with several other groups and so on is for sure old school, but not appealing to me at all. I actually kind of like instanced dungeons. I will definitely try it out at release but my hype has gone down a lot lately. And yes, I know it is alpha gameplay. It is not that, I don't care that the battles look kind of boring right now to be honest. As long as there is strategy involved.
    This is fair enough,to each their own.
    So happens i do love camping dungeons and there are reasons.I detest the downgrading of immersion that ? and ! over npc heads does to a game world.I also detest quests because in reality they are ERRANDS and not quests.

    Camping allows a COMFORT level ,you have time to chat with others,gain friendships.You see the MMO+game factor is suppose to be about fun playing your class and enjoy doing the combat with others.

    The whole premise of a instance type game is to simply facilitate loot runs over and over and over.To me this is like saying,without the loot the game has no substance,nobody wants to play it.This is actually TRUE,if a game relies solely on loot runs,i don't want to play it,i enjoy well designed classes and com,bat depth/systems,NOT loot runs.

    Loot runs create a feeling that the game and the world do not matter,only the loot table matters.These designs ALWAYS create lock downs on content as well,get the right gear or you can't play idea.

    I don't try to be mean or anything ,i just call it as i see it and to me loot run gaming is VERY shallow,it is NOT RPG nor MMO gaming.
    Post edited by Wizardry on
    lindhskyLackingMMOperrin82SovrathNyctelios

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,777
    Developer: "We are making a game for 5% of the player base who likes this sort of thing."

    Player A: "Thanks! There are nearly no games like this for us to play! WooOooOo!"

    Player B: "Bullshit! Make it just like the other 90% of games designed for people like me! You're Bullshit too Player A!"

    Good thread guys. Productive as ever.
    XodicbobbymcswansonLackingMMOjimmywolfSlapshot1188JimmydeaninfomatzNyctelios

    You stay sassy!

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,446
    I feel sorry for people that have waited years following this game only to get this. :/
    bentrimdrivendawn
  • SaicredSaicred Member UncommonPosts: 5
    edited April 30
    Really good to see such a diverse audience being reached here. I do completely understand that watching verse playing an MMO are very different. So a lot of the feedback is expected in my book :). I think of it like Golf or Baseball. I see the beauty in the game others don't cause I know what I'm looking for, what small details I need to focus on, and just how hard it is to make those "routine" plays look routine.

    Overall here are a couple pieces that I love Pantheon is doing.

    1. Trying to create a game, world, and online environment that encourages positive social interaction to be successful.
    2. Trying to bring that same type of game/play style that caused me to fall in love with MMO's and Online Gaming in the first place. Yet still adding a little twist to it when able as well to bring it to the modern age.

    On top of this I wanted to respond to a few common comments as well to see if my 2 cents can help shed light on things.

    1. "Looks just like EQ." - This is true. In Pantheon's (Pre-alpha) core current state the classes, and play style resemble EQ a lot. However a few items to add. This is just the foundation. Things such as Climate and Atmosphere System are not being shown, More dispositions and Enhanced AI will be added, Preception system triggers, and other things that add flavor to the experience and make it new.
    2. "Combat is boring and game pace is slow." - Again baseball and golf. Yes I agree its not boxing, but if you know what the end goal is and how challenging the content is it can be much more exciting to watch. As for the slow part. This is what happens when Death truly hurts. Corpse runs where some of the best and worst memories I had in EQ. These memories and this fear of dieing made the game a lot more enjoyable, but also made me a much more cautious player. The result was I as a player took things slower and safer to bring down the Risk as much as possible.
    3. "Not enough challenge." - Feedback I'm giving myself while watching! We know the game is currently being tuned and tested repeatedly. So for me I'd also like to see the challenge in the fights turned up a bit. However again, there are many factors not in the game yet. Many fights, spells, abilities, and such haven't been given that final tune yet so a lot of things come into mind as what could be done to increase the difficulty a little. Side note on top of all this is a lot of times people forget the level ranges of content seen just in this short video or stream alone. 2-3 levels is a big deal from what I see and that is important to factor in.

    I have so much more to say, but I'll stop here as hopefully people see a little of what I see from this post. Thanks all for the feedback and look forward to reading more!

    Edit: Sorry for those who didn't take kindly to my post. Not trying to talk anyone into Pantheon, but just share a little more to the story from my own opinion. Thanks again for the stream Hive. Loved it and look forward to seeing more in the future!
    Post edited by Saicred on
    XodicSovrathKumaponNyctelios
  • bobbymcswansonbobbymcswanson Member UncommonPosts: 70
    Hive.....where was the energy at brother? You sounded bummed out....
    Mikeha
  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 239
    What is the definition of "camping"?  How long in time? When some here talk about hours, what are you doing other than talking with one another? Longest I would bother with "camping" would be an hour. Also, is "camping" alot of what you do in "Old School"? Well to each their own, me, don't think so.
    Torval
  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member UncommonPosts: 291
    A lot of a stream for a game like this is going to be in the presentation and to me it seems it was a little dry on the commentating. Game looks fine !for me! I honestly look at some of the comments and cant help but think. Yeah but if this game changed to what you want it to be, then what is setting it apart from ANY of the games that have launched and failed with the except of.. 3?

    Also one of the other streams they mentioned the dungeons are designed for short bursts(2 hours or so) not 8 hour grinds so that takes out a bunch of the whining right there. If your not a fan of this type of combat that's a different issue and obviously your not going to like it regardless of how flashy it was.

    As far as someone mentioning previous supports are fading away from pantheon, I'm not seeing it at all. The only thing I'm nervous about is the typical crap.. bugs, stability and what not. To be honest the last time we saw Brad was with VG and it was one of the worst(not the worst that goes to Horizons) launches and ultimately caused the game to die. So as a supporter(not a backer) this is the only worry I have. We all know(devs admitted) this isn't aimed to be a wildly popular game, its a game with a specific goal in mind and so far its hitting what the devs said it would be. I'm happy with that and look forward to more info.

    Still trying to figure out which race is going to be closest like my Barbarian warrior hmm...
  • jimmywolfjimmywolf Member UncommonPosts: 177

    Jamar870 said:

    What is the definition of "camping"?  How long in time? When some here talk about hours, what are you doing other than talking with one another? Longest I would bother with "camping" would be an hour. Also, is "camping" alot of what you do in "Old School"? Well to each their own, me, don't think so.



    the point of camps is they offer different things for different people, here are few.

    A) a good xp spot and safe place to pull to while group kills away while avoiding roaming mobs/adds

    B) crowed zone were fighting each other for kills made players want to create camps to share mobs. less fighting each other for kills, more killing for xp.


    C) rare spawns spawn near X camp you want chance at that item you look for that camp

    if you just showed up randomly and said "i only got a hour, am going do whatever i want. " you not get far even if you had 5 friends with you, so camps help keep the peace and share the love.



  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,889
    Saicred said:

    PS - I'll try to answer some more questions directly as well. Ask away!
    Who are you?  Why should I ask you questions?

    Allerleirauhblueturtle13

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • SaicredSaicred Member UncommonPosts: 5
    LackingMMO - Correct. Based off information I have VR is attempting to build the game with 2hour sessions in mind. Camp spots within Raids or Dungeons and such so you can log out after a couple hour push and log back in to maybe push more. They understand not everyone has 8 hours to spend on a game in one day.

    Also I agree. Some people will leave, and some will stay. Overall bugs, and stability are the biggest things I'm looking out for come Release. Which is why I love how VR is approaching it by taking time to Optimize throughout Dev. and bringing testers in early to help with bugs. Also leaving a loose timeline to ensure they address these before the big Release day is key to me as well. Really like that about them.

    PS - Ogre look sweet! :)

    Kumapon
  • SaicredSaicred Member UncommonPosts: 5

    Jamar870 said:

    What is the definition of "camping"?  How long in time? When some here talk about hours, what are you doing other than talking with one another? Longest I would bother with "camping" would be an hour. Also, is "camping" alot of what you do in "Old School"? Well to each their own, me, don't think so.



    Camping is anytime to stop somewhere and pull mobs to you vs go to them. This could be for 15minutes, 1 hour, or 3 hours depending on what you are trying to do. Camping is a big piece of "old school" style game play. Instead of going quest to quest or "running" through a dungeon in 15 minutes you would setup camp in a Dungeon, grind out some levels, gear, and money before moving forward. With Death having meaning this is something where you tend not to move too fast as you want to feel your way through and with caution.

    Also camping isn't always as safe as one would think roaming mobs, respawns on pulls, and mob AI such as an alarmist could really make or break a pull even while camping a location.
    Kumapon
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,040
    If nothing else Pantheon will have 19+ years of EQ to observe and draw upon...They can take the best parts of it and leave behind the not so desireable.
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,351
    On level content seems more tedious and frustrating than anything. Hopefully one tuning starts everything will come together.
    Kyleran

    image

  • MendelMendel Member RarePosts: 2,368
    Saicred said:
    <snip>

    1. "Looks just like EQ." - This is true. In Pantheon's (Pre-alpha) core current state the classes, and play style resemble EQ a lot. However a few items to add. This is just the foundation. Things such as Climate and Atmosphere System are not being shown, More dispositions and Enhanced AI will be added, Preception system triggers, and other things that add flavor to the experience and make it new.

    Let me focus a bit on this one comment.

    Yes, it looks a lot like EQ1 (and EQ2, also).  A group of 6 fighting one mob at a time, with specialist keeping it a 6-on-1 fight, and healing people.  That's not new.  When exactly are these other systems, which you insist will "add flavor to the experience and make it new" going to happen in the development time frame?  Alpha (proper)?  Beta?  Are there specific changes to this 6-1 combat that you're aware of?

    The current state is pre-alpha, and not all classes or races have been shown yet.  I expect these to take up the majority of pre-alpha development time, as well as creation of new areas.  Do you expect that the 6-on-1 fighting mechanism is going to change somewhere in the interim before alpha (proper) launches?

    I'd really like to know, because I'd like to be involved with a game that isn't trying to drag me back to 1999.  It was a bad year; I have no desire to relive that again.  Nothing that I've seen (or read) about the Climate/Atmosphere/Perception systems appear to do anything to change this basic formula.  (Climate/Atmosphere both appear to be gates, requiring specialized 'buffing gear' to pass, and Perception seems to be an individual, not group thing to inject Quests into the world).  AI could *possibly* change this, by changing the way mobs react to attempts to reduce any combat to the 6-on-1 mechanism from the past.

    What exactly is coming that is going to change the basic functions of what we have seen?




    ZombieCat

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • xDarkjoyxDarkjoy Member UncommonPosts: 118
    These comments have turned into who is the "most oldschool" player here... kinda pathetic considering the age of some of you folk.
    IselinXodic
  • TheHiveLeaderTheHiveLeader Video MaestroMember UncommonPosts: 193
    edited April 30
    ...if you don't want a game that feels and plays like 1999 then Pantheon isn't for you. Period. There's no selling you on it. This is a niche game aimed at people who want to go back to that era of MMOs. Why is anyone arguing about this? If you want an MMO with all the quirks and pros and cons of 1999, then stick around. If not, look elsewhere. Not every game has to be for everyone.

    This thread is embarrassing.
    Post edited by TheHiveLeader on
    Storm_CloudMadFrenchieIselinKumaponSovrathSlapshot1188Wellspringdhtx74XodicLackingMMOand 7 others.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,196
    It definitely is embarrassing.

    Some said they enjoyed watching it... some said they find it boring. This is all fine, especially for a game that is so niche.

    And then someone comes along and starts with the typical condescending shit:

    ...."beating da game"
    ... mad rush to end cap
    ... the hyperactive types ...
    .... just to brag for five minutes
    ... onto the next shiny
    ... those with short attention spans.

    The clueless arrogance of one fanboi slinging insults at those who don't share his passion should be embarrassing indeed.

    LackingMMODakerudrivendawn
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • redolentjunkredolentjunk Member CommonPosts: 2
    edited April 29
    Seeing a pre-alpha game with this type of team behind the development gets me excited for Pantheon.  I hope the leaders of the design stick with their initial gut and don't succumb to others wanting this game to be another WoW. 

    I do miss the late night corpse runs and getting help from a higher level to get the corpse after wiping.  That's how relationships in games are established, that's where reputation matters, it's the interaction and working together towards a common goal that gave us a sense of accomplishment.  Not the hardcore raids spending 4-8 hours causing burn out over time. 

    I'm excited to see faction, and if it's like the early mmorpg and d&d it will really mean something.   

    The more enjoyable our relationships with the group and experiences we get to share is what's going to make this game thrive.
    Post edited by redolentjunk on
  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,444
    Can t f n wait. This and WoW x pac gets me excited.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,576
    I think that’s looking pretty good. Hopefully they get a rock solid build and network for launch. Vanguard never recovered from the launch disaster.

    Vanguard was a LOT more hightly anticipated than Pantheon - I think that Pantheon has a much stronger followers that will stick around regardless, but it is a lot smaller number than Vanguard before launch.

    That's the tradeoff - VG had lots of interest initially but not as dedicated as Pantheon's small following.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 5,434
    edited April 30
    It's a game where community can make or break it.  If I can consistently find a good group of folks to dungeon-crawl with, I can see myself enjoying this long-term.

    If the population or comminity is lacking, the allure of the game will fall apart.

    EDIT- I hope they tread a fine line with interdependence.  My ideal is that content can be done without ALL roles present, but that all roles being available to the group presents a way to increase the rewards over the same amount of time played.  Encourage it, but don't hamstring a group for missing one role.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    acidblood

    image
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,576


    We want the challenge of old school but not the tedium....So far I am seeing more tedium than challenge....It also seems way too much like EQ...While it was fun in its day, I dont really want to do that again.



    EQ1 is a blueprint for Pantheon - Brad has said this himself, Pantheon is based on EQ1 vanilla design.

    So that's why Pantheon is the way it is - and as a huge EQ1 vanilla fan (and P99 fan) - I think this is just fine.

    But again I 100% understand how this is very much a niche game that will appeal to a very small minority, I am fully aware of that and am very much looking to smashing the content in Pantheon in record time with my guild (no matter what the devs say) - the game will be devoured chewed and spit out in no time - that's the plan.
    saker
  • SaicredSaicred Member UncommonPosts: 5



    Saicred said:



    PS - I'll try to answer some more questions directly as well. Ask away!



    Who are you?  Why should I ask you questions?




    No one, and just thought I'd be friendly. Sorry for the offer.
    KumaponTiller
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