Massive? You and I differ greatly on our idea of "Massive".
What I see are very niche, small titles with very little funding. Each game is going to be making cuts into some kind of game mechanics which will hurt the finished product in some way or another.
"sandbox" "pvp" Since when is pvp anything other than sandbox,does someone control your pvp actions in some game out there?
None the less the sandbox WORLD is something these games are NOT,the world is scripted and there is no engine/tools to create your own maps/weapons/Ai etc etc,so there is literally ZERO sandbox in ANY of those games. Which would i play,none of those 4,i don't see them offering me anything creative or constructive they are all simply cheap game builds looking to cash in one 1-2 gimmicks.
W/o going into each game's minute detail ,they all fail at the very basic core of game design,they are NOT complete games at what they are portraying their games to be. Crowfall being the biggest fail design because it is tying in the most desirable aspect of the game into the cash shop and that is a HUGE no no.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I highly doubt COE is gonna be anywhere near ready by 2019.
Looking forward to CU and Crowfall, both for similar reasons. I think crowfall will be the more popular but I think CU will be more of the game I really want to play. Either way, should be decent MMO year for once. God knows we haven't had one in a while.
Massive? You and I differ greatly on our idea of "Massive".
What I see are very niche, small titles with very little funding. Each game is going to be making cuts into some kind of game mechanics which will hurt the finished product in some way or another.
I will be playing non of these games.
My idea of massive is that it's something that has mass. For example, electrons are massive and photons are not. With that in mind, are these games massive?
Massive? You and I differ greatly on our idea of "Massive".
What I see are very niche, small titles with very little funding. Each game is going to be making cuts into some kind of game mechanics which will hurt the finished product in some way or another.
I will be playing non of these games.
North of 10 million dollars could hardly be considered "very little" funding for a MMO. Crowfall has close to 20 million dollars in funding so far, Camelot Unchained isn't far from that number.
The funding is closer to AAA titles like Blade & Soul, Black Desert Online and Guild Wars 2 than the large majority of the indie games released in recent years.
Massive? You and I differ greatly on our idea of "Massive".
What I see are very niche, small titles with very little funding. Each game is going to be making cuts into some kind of game mechanics which will hurt the finished product in some way or another.
I will be playing non of these games.
My idea of massive is that it's something that has mass. For example, electrons are massive and photons are not. With that in mind, are these games massive?
I'm curious to know what do you think an MMO is? A game with Multiplayer Online properties that manifest only if it's attached to a mass?
Massive? You and I differ greatly on our idea of "Massive".
What I see are very niche, small titles with very little funding. Each game is going to be making cuts into some kind of game mechanics which will hurt the finished product in some way or another.
I will be playing non of these games.
My idea of massive is that it's something that has mass. For example, electrons are massive and photons are not. With that in mind, are these games massive?
I'm curious to know what do you think an MMO is? A game with Multiplayer Online properties that manifest only if it's attached to a mass?
You say that as though there is any agreement as to what an MMO is.
Massive? You and I differ greatly on our idea of "Massive".
What I see are very niche, small titles with very little funding. Each game is going to be making cuts into some kind of game mechanics which will hurt the finished product in some way or another.
I will be playing non of these games.
North of 10 million dollars could hardly be considered "very little" funding for a MMO. Crowfall has close to 20 million dollars in funding so far, Camelot Unchained isn't far from that number.
The funding is closer to AAA titles like Blade & Soul, Black Desert Online and Guild Wars 2 than the large majority of the indie games released in recent years.
Still about $10 to $20M short for a western developed MMORPG.
Two of you three examples were built in a country with roughly 50% lower labor costs and they clear still suffer from a lack of proper funding.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What I've learned in 20 years of playing MMOs - have no hope. You'll just be let down.
The development takes longer than what was initially expected but things seem to go smoothly now. They've got a major cash influx earlier this year and they're adding lot of stuff into the game to get the Beta rolling in 2 months.
Massive? You and I differ greatly on our idea of "Massive".
What I see are very niche, small titles with very little funding. Each game is going to be making cuts into some kind of game mechanics which will hurt the finished product in some way or another.
I will be playing non of these games.
North of 10 million dollars could hardly be considered "very little" funding for a MMO. Crowfall has close to 20 million dollars in funding so far, Camelot Unchained isn't far from that number.
The funding is closer to AAA titles like Blade & Soul, Black Desert Online and Guild Wars 2 than the large majority of the indie games released in recent years.
Still about $10 to $20M short for a western developed MMORPG.
Two of you three examples were built in a country with roughly 50% lower labor costs and they clear still suffer from a lack of proper funding.
$20M is just a snapshot, Crowfall will likely end up on 30-40M - and I bet Camelot will get more than it's current $17M; Of course, it also means more delays etc.
Another thing is that none of these two will have AAA PvE or anything close to it, which is lion's share of any such budget; not to mention marketing money, this part can really go wild with AAAs.
None of these guarantees success to CF/CU, nor it puts them into AAA range - just, they are not as far below as it might seem at first glance.
i just found all the good sandbox pvp mmo are coming at 2019 or later (2020) here is the list Camelot unchained - Daoc game from 2001 making another great return as a new game Chornicles of elyria- pure sandbox game with many intersting feature Crowfall - from shadowbane ultima online dev Ashes of creation - another good sandbox game
so after i spent time seeing each of the title i came to decision each has some little problems CU- realm vs realm pvp game so your forced to ally/enemy based on the realm no freedom Coe- players saying its little pay to win though Crowfall - too cartoonish and non peristent world ashes of creation - looks more like a pve game than pvp and most of the people only going to play it for dungeon raids and boses?
but anyway all of these game have same concept on pvp got siege (village town city castle) open world pvp building territory war so if anyone knows is there is any difference between these 4? (except realm vs realm) and which one you going to try ? and which one will fail like life is feudal and which will be one of the best sandbox mmo?
Massive? You and I differ greatly on our idea of "Massive".
What I see are very niche, small titles with very little funding. Each game is going to be making cuts into some kind of game mechanics which will hurt the finished product in some way or another.
I will be playing non of these games.
My idea of massive is that it's something that has mass. For example, electrons are massive and photons are not. With that in mind, are these games massive?
I'm curious to know what do you think an MMO is? A game with Multiplayer Online properties that manifest only if it's attached to a mass?
You say that as though there is any agreement as to what an MMO is.
There is. Just like there is an agreement that the earth is round yet there are still a surprising number of people(vocal minority) that think its flat.
Just because you can point to a bunch of people who claim something that clearly is not an MMO is an MMO does not mean that there isn't an understood agreement to what is an MMO and is not.
Lost Ark, not because its a game I really want or care for but unlike the four games mentioned its close to being finished. You can hype sandbox features all you want but so far its just hype on things that they intend to develop instead of actual features that can be played in their current build.
I will reevaluate all those games once you can watch people stream beta gameplay but I'm done hyping games based on words alone.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I'm not a PvP fan, and believe that trying to mix the two these days is a path to quick disaster. PvE focused players generally don't want to be messed with and PvP focused players generally don't want to be quested ad nauseam.
Camelot Unchained might be interesting, as it seems you can specialize in crafting, focusing mainly on supporting the troops of your realm to victory instead of direct engagement.
If it turns out to be so this would probably the best for me to try, providing the cost of curiosity isn't too high.
i just found all the good sandbox pvp mmo are coming at 2019 or later (2020) here is the list Camelot unchained - Daoc game from 2001 making another great return as a new game Chornicles of elyria- pure sandbox game with many intersting feature Crowfall - from shadowbane ultima online dev Ashes of creation - another good sandbox game
so after i spent time seeing each of the title i came to decision each has some little problems CU- realm vs realm pvp game so your forced to ally/enemy based on the realm no freedom Coe- players saying its little pay to win though Crowfall - too cartoonish and non peristent world ashes of creation - looks more like a pve game than pvp and most of the people only going to play it for dungeon raids and boses?
First, your thread title, none of these games are massive! They are all niche titles, none will be big hits, so don't get your hopes up too high! However, they all have interesting ideas and I wish them all good luck. My thoughts:
Camelot Unchained This is the only MMO I am currently excited for. It will actually be massively multiplayer! 1000+ player battles will be possible. 3 way territory control. We can design and build our own structures in the world. We can siege and destroy other people's structures. Really deep combat system to keep the game engaging long term, whilst also being more skill based than most MMOs. This game is doing everything right to create a really good, engaging PvP game in the MMO space.
The biggest downfall of this game is going to be lack of variety. I have no doubt that the RvR is going to be amazing, but outside of that I am worried there is nothing else to do. It'll have a good crafting economy to it, but if you aren't a crafter then open world pvp is all you got.
Crowfall This game has got some really big players behind it and I am a fan of Raph Koster, he always comes up with interesting ideas. I think out of the 4 games you listed, this will have the biggest initial success. However, I think a lot of their design choices are setup to make this a very short term success. I think it'll be fun for a few months but then most people will be gone and the game will die off.
I feel this way partly due to heavy use of instancing, which will make community building harder. I feel this way partly due to going down the action combat route, which is certainly more accessible to the masses but also gets repetitive and boring quickly.
I believe Crowfall's only hope for long term success comes from emergent gameplay. I think the game they have designed now has some really fundamental flaws, but the way they've designed Eternal Kingdoms could give rise to some interesting gameplay. The campaigns, being instanced and short term, should also be able to quickly adapt. These two things could result in the game becoming something that nobody envisioned (for example, the campaigns might get ignored if most people are involved in sieging big guild EKs all the time) if the community take full advantage.
Chronicles of Elyria I started off rooting for this game but have long since been turned off it. They have some great ideas, but as development has gone on the ideas keep coming without them seeming to finish off previous ones. I now doubt their ability to achieve half of what they've promised. Then, they started doing some shady cash-shop stuff and their monetisation really put me off, makes me think that they not only can't make it to launch, but even if they did it would be using a business model I cannot support. It's a shame really, I'd heard great things about Chronicles of Spellborn but never got a chance to play it, was hoping I could support this one instead.
Ashes of Creation This receives a lot of press because it raised the largest amount of kickstarter money for an MMO. However, the amount was only marginally higher than previous KS MMOs and is still far below what is actually needed to deliver an MMO.
To me, I cannot distinguish AoC from any of the other crowd-funded PvE sandboxes. Everything it is setting out to do seems very generic to me, but not only does it seem to be offering what the other sandboxes are offering, it's the same promises that most previous sandboxes have made and failed to fulfil.
Still, it's very early days, this game has the least amount of information available for it so subsequent reveals might improve things. Right now, everything feels generic and bland, there is nothing I can get excited about beyond a very high level "I hope this sandbox works".
I only worry about games that are released. A game that is due to be released doesn't exist until that day comes. So, from your list, you have no list.
Comments
What I see are very niche, small titles with very little funding. Each game is going to be making cuts into some kind of game mechanics which will hurt the finished product in some way or another.
I will be playing non of these games.
None the less the sandbox WORLD is something these games are NOT,the world is scripted and there is no engine/tools to create your own maps/weapons/Ai etc etc,so there is literally ZERO sandbox in ANY of those games.
Which would i play,none of those 4,i don't see them offering me anything creative or constructive they are all simply cheap game builds looking to cash in one 1-2 gimmicks.
W/o going into each game's minute detail ,they all fail at the very basic core of game design,they are NOT complete games at what they are portraying their games to be.
Crowfall being the biggest fail design because it is tying in the most desirable aspect of the game into the cash shop and that is a HUGE no no.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It'll be something between fun and second job, depending on how you approach it.
Looking forward to CU and Crowfall, both for similar reasons. I think crowfall will be the more popular but I think CU will be more of the game I really want to play. Either way, should be decent MMO year for once. God knows we haven't had one in a while.
New World, if it's still a thing, could grab my attention in the future too.
The funding is closer to AAA titles like Blade & Soul, Black Desert Online and Guild Wars 2 than the large majority of the indie games released in recent years.
What I've learned in 20 years of playing MMOs - have no hope. You'll just be let down.
Two of you three examples were built in a country with roughly 50% lower labor costs and they clear still suffer from a lack of proper funding.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Another thing is that none of these two will have AAA PvE or anything close to it, which is lion's share of any such budget; not to mention marketing money, this part can really go wild with AAAs.
None of these guarantees success to CF/CU, nor it puts them into AAA range - just, they are not as far below as it might seem at first glance.
None of those after I did the research on them.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Just because you can point to a bunch of people who claim something that clearly is not an MMO is an MMO does not mean that there isn't an understood agreement to what is an MMO and is not.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
I will reevaluate all those games once you can watch people stream beta gameplay but I'm done hyping games based on words alone.
Camelot Unchained might be interesting, as it seems you can specialize in crafting, focusing mainly on supporting the troops of your realm to victory instead of direct engagement.
If it turns out to be so this would probably the best for me to try, providing the cost of curiosity isn't too high.
Camelot Unchained
This is the only MMO I am currently excited for. It will actually be massively multiplayer! 1000+ player battles will be possible. 3 way territory control. We can design and build our own structures in the world. We can siege and destroy other people's structures. Really deep combat system to keep the game engaging long term, whilst also being more skill based than most MMOs. This game is doing everything right to create a really good, engaging PvP game in the MMO space.
The biggest downfall of this game is going to be lack of variety. I have no doubt that the RvR is going to be amazing, but outside of that I am worried there is nothing else to do. It'll have a good crafting economy to it, but if you aren't a crafter then open world pvp is all you got.
Crowfall
This game has got some really big players behind it and I am a fan of Raph Koster, he always comes up with interesting ideas. I think out of the 4 games you listed, this will have the biggest initial success. However, I think a lot of their design choices are setup to make this a very short term success. I think it'll be fun for a few months but then most people will be gone and the game will die off.
I feel this way partly due to heavy use of instancing, which will make community building harder. I feel this way partly due to going down the action combat route, which is certainly more accessible to the masses but also gets repetitive and boring quickly.
I believe Crowfall's only hope for long term success comes from emergent gameplay. I think the game they have designed now has some really fundamental flaws, but the way they've designed Eternal Kingdoms could give rise to some interesting gameplay. The campaigns, being instanced and short term, should also be able to quickly adapt. These two things could result in the game becoming something that nobody envisioned (for example, the campaigns might get ignored if most people are involved in sieging big guild EKs all the time) if the community take full advantage.
Chronicles of Elyria
I started off rooting for this game but have long since been turned off it. They have some great ideas, but as development has gone on the ideas keep coming without them seeming to finish off previous ones. I now doubt their ability to achieve half of what they've promised. Then, they started doing some shady cash-shop stuff and their monetisation really put me off, makes me think that they not only can't make it to launch, but even if they did it would be using a business model I cannot support. It's a shame really, I'd heard great things about Chronicles of Spellborn but never got a chance to play it, was hoping I could support this one instead.
Ashes of Creation
This receives a lot of press because it raised the largest amount of kickstarter money for an MMO. However, the amount was only marginally higher than previous KS MMOs and is still far below what is actually needed to deliver an MMO.
To me, I cannot distinguish AoC from any of the other crowd-funded PvE sandboxes. Everything it is setting out to do seems very generic to me, but not only does it seem to be offering what the other sandboxes are offering, it's the same promises that most previous sandboxes have made and failed to fulfil.
Still, it's very early days, this game has the least amount of information available for it so subsequent reveals might improve things. Right now, everything feels generic and bland, there is nothing I can get excited about beyond a very high level "I hope this sandbox works".