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  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    kitarad said:
    Complaining about Everquest graphics... gameplay as pointed by @postlarval is timeless. Any true connoisseur of good gameplay will not condemn a game for its graphics. 


    Sorry man, but that's just not how it is.  I have been an amateur game designer for many years, and spent plenty of time thinking about gameplay, but I've been someone who enjoys nice art for even longer.  I wouldn't play chess with a fugly or gross chess set even though it's the exact same gameplay there would be with a pretty chess set.
    You sound more like a graphic designer than a game designer. I know several game developers and I can't think of one that would be passionate about graphics over gameplay. Most of the game developers I know obsess over gameplay.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    kitarad said:
    Complaining about Everquest graphics... gameplay as pointed by @postlarval is timeless. Any true connoisseur of good gameplay will not condemn a game for its graphics. 


    Sorry man, but that's just not how it is.  I have been an amateur game designer for many years, and spent plenty of time thinking about gameplay, but I've been someone who enjoys nice art for even longer.  I wouldn't play chess with a fugly or gross chess set even though it's the exact same gameplay there would be with a pretty chess set.
    You sound more like a graphic designer than a game designer. I know several game developers and I can't think of one that would be passionate about graphics over gameplay. Most of the game developers I know obsess over gameplay.

    Greed and need for great graphics are killing mmorpg's.  Too much time is put in both.
    Scot
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 1,135
    kitarad said:
    Complaining about Everquest graphics... gameplay as pointed by @postlarval is timeless. Any true connoisseur of good gameplay will not condemn a game for its graphics. 


    Sorry man, but that's just not how it is.  I have been an amateur game designer for many years, and spent plenty of time thinking about gameplay, but I've been someone who enjoys nice art for even longer.  I wouldn't play chess with a fugly or gross chess set even though it's the exact same gameplay there would be with a pretty chess set.
    You sound more like a graphic designer than a game designer. I know several game developers and I can't think of one that would be passionate about graphics over gameplay. Most of the game developers I know obsess over gameplay.

    Greed and need for great graphics are killing mmorpg's.  Too much time is put in both.
    And yet, you find dated graphics off putting. Many agree, which is why good graphics have become more of a focus. As for greed, they can only sell what players are willing to buy. We are just as responsible as they for the state of things.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    kitarad said:
    Complaining about Everquest graphics... gameplay as pointed by @postlarval is timeless. Any true connoisseur of good gameplay will not condemn a game for its graphics. 


    Sorry man, but that's just not how it is.  I have been an amateur game designer for many years, and spent plenty of time thinking about gameplay, but I've been someone who enjoys nice art for even longer.  I wouldn't play chess with a fugly or gross chess set even though it's the exact same gameplay there would be with a pretty chess set.
    You sound more like a graphic designer than a game designer. I know several game developers and I can't think of one that would be passionate about graphics over gameplay. Most of the game developers I know obsess over gameplay.

    Greed and need for great graphics are killing mmorpg's.  Too much time is put in both.
    And yet, you find dated graphics off putting. Many agree, which is why good graphics have become more of a focus. As for greed, they can only sell what players are willing to buy. We are just as responsible as they for the state of things.

    Everyone has an opinion, 

    I'm ok with medium graphics as long as developers can pump out content, balance and rich class design.  Graphics shouldn't be in the way of making a world..... then again, who am I to say ! 

    Problem with supply and demand as you say...... This is off...... Players are screaming for the next mmorpg, they will buy anything, get let down and now were at a standstill because of it.  Yet another comes along (good or bad) players will buy it !  
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,329
    edited April 2018
    kitarad said:
    Complaining about Everquest graphics... gameplay as pointed by @postlarval is timeless. Any true connoisseur of good gameplay will not condemn a game for its graphics. 


    Sorry man, but that's just not how it is.  I have been an amateur game designer for many years, and spent plenty of time thinking about gameplay, but I've been someone who enjoys nice art for even longer.  I wouldn't play chess with a fugly or gross chess set even though it's the exact same gameplay there would be with a pretty chess set.
    You sound more like a graphic designer than a game designer. I know several game developers and I can't think of one that would be passionate about graphics over gameplay. Most of the game developers I know obsess over gameplay.

    Greed and need for great graphics are killing mmorpg's.  Too much time is put in both.
    And yet, you find dated graphics off putting. Many agree, which is why good graphics have become more of a focus. As for greed, they can only sell what players are willing to buy. We are just as responsible as they for the state of things.

    Everyone has an opinion, 

    I'm ok with medium graphics as long as developers can pump out content, balance and rich class design.  Graphics shouldn't be in the way of making a world..... then again, who am I to say ! 

    Problem with supply and demand as you say...... This is off...... Players are screaming for the next mmorpg, they will buy anything, get let down and now were at a standstill because of it.  Yet another comes along (good or bad) players will buy it !  
    Keeping up with the graphics has been part of the reason MMOs got stuck in the doldrums. No time to innovate when if you were launching in 2015 you have to look like Witcher 3.

    But that has got us acclimatised to top rate graphics in MMOs, even though you understand the problem it is hard to say "I am fine with a new MMO that looks like it was made in 2001."

    One thing that is odd is we seem to give Indie solo games more of a pass than we do Indie MMOs for graphics, maybe it is because they tend to have more crowd funding and that makes people expect more?

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  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Member RarePosts: 1,985
    edited April 2018
    kitarad said:
    Complaining about Everquest graphics... gameplay as pointed by @postlarval is timeless. Any true connoisseur of good gameplay will not condemn a game for its graphics. 


    Sorry man, but that's just not how it is.  I have been an amateur game designer for many years, and spent plenty of time thinking about gameplay, but I've been someone who enjoys nice art for even longer.  I wouldn't play chess with a fugly or gross chess set even though it's the exact same gameplay there would be with a pretty chess set.
    You sound more like a graphic designer than a game designer. I know several game developers and I can't think of one that would be passionate about graphics over gameplay. Most of the game developers I know obsess over gameplay.
    However it sounds, I'm not actually a graphic designer.  To be a designer of something you have to be interested in the problems of that thing, and I'm not really interested in the problems of visuals.  I've seen lots of beautiful art in my life, so I have the impression that artists are doing a fine job without my efforts.  On the other hand I've seen a lot of awkward or terrible gameplay, so that seems more like an area where it seems like I could make a positive impact.  I will probably never be a designer of a commercial game because I just don't have the energy to do creative work every day for months; I have gotten burned out every time I have tried.  But I like to imagine that my theory and tutorials related to game design have at least influenced other game designers.
    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 1,135
    edited April 2018
    kitarad said:
    Complaining about Everquest graphics... gameplay as pointed by @postlarval is timeless. Any true connoisseur of good gameplay will not condemn a game for its graphics. 


    Sorry man, but that's just not how it is.  I have been an amateur game designer for many years, and spent plenty of time thinking about gameplay, but I've been someone who enjoys nice art for even longer.  I wouldn't play chess with a fugly or gross chess set even though it's the exact same gameplay there would be with a pretty chess set.
    You sound more like a graphic designer than a game designer. I know several game developers and I can't think of one that would be passionate about graphics over gameplay. Most of the game developers I know obsess over gameplay.

    Greed and need for great graphics are killing mmorpg's.  Too much time is put in both.
    And yet, you find dated graphics off putting. Many agree, which is why good graphics have become more of a focus. As for greed, they can only sell what players are willing to buy. We are just as responsible as they for the state of things.

    Everyone has an opinion, 

    I'm ok with medium graphics as long as developers can pump out content, balance and rich class design.  Graphics shouldn't be in the way of making a world..... then again, who am I to say ! 

    Problem with supply and demand as you say...... This is off...... Players are screaming for the next mmorpg, they will buy anything, get let down and now were at a standstill because of it.  Yet another comes along (good or bad) players will buy it !  
    As far as what you desire in a game, you are the only one to say.

    I share your opinion that graphics shouldn't be the prime factor of a game, especially if it gets to a point they would limit what could otherwise be.

    Though depth and dated graphics have been mainly packaged together for quite some time, a sort of renaissance has begun. Hopefully one of the games inspired by the depth of old but with aesthetics more suited to the present will provide what you seek.
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