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What the hell am I missing here with ESO?

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  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,488
    I've been playing since closed Beta. I enjoy the game. Either you like it or you don't, just like any other game on the market.
    But hopefully @OP you feel vindicated now that you've come here and made a post about it and have been consoled by all the other posters who don't like TESO.

    It's a discussion forum, and this was interesting enough to reach 6 pages so far. Get off the high horse.
    ZenJelly[Deleted User]
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • bairemin30bairemin30 Member CommonPosts: 7
    Eso is not for everyone. I burned out pretty fast after leveling my stam dk to 47.  Also when I learned that better stamina builds use caltrops which you have to grind in cyrodil it put me off too. 
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,498
    Eso is not for everyone. I burned out pretty fast after leveling my stam dk to 47.  Also when I learned that better stamina builds use caltrops which you have to grind in cyrodil it put me off too. 
    You cam unlock caltrops in just 3 or 4 hours hanging out with a group and after it's unlocked you can level it up and morph it just in PVE if you want. Most people grind it while they're still low level in the under level 50 PVP campaign.

    And yes it's a good AOE damage skill but it's also costly to use and you can get by fine without it. It's not like having it is going to instantly make you a PVE DPS god :)

    I personally find grinding Rearming Trap from the Fighter's Guild or Meteor from the Mage's a much bigger PITA to get... /shrug 
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,642
    edited April 2018
    Viper482 said:
    I've been playing since closed Beta. I enjoy the game. Either you like it or you don't, just like any other game on the market.
    But hopefully @OP you feel vindicated now that you've come here and made a post about it and have been consoled by all the other posters who don't like TESO.

    It's a discussion forum, and this was interesting enough to reach 6 pages so far. Get off the high horse.
    I was sincerely asking what people like about it lol. Funny thing is, reading some of the posts from people who do like it, and why they like it I decided to try a new class and start from the beginning again. I'm not trying to make that mad dash to end game like I have gotten in the habit of doing with some many MMOs, so minus some of the glaring issues I mentioned it's not bad. It's mostly a story PvE game, so I play it as such. Actually I bought the Summerset expansion so I could get Morrowind for free.

    SmokewoodTorvalMrMelGibson


  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,007
    Tiller said:
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    JeroKane said:
    eddieg50 said:
    Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?  

    Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
    I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
    The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards.  So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.

    The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion.  Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
    I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.

    The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.

    The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.

    Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.

    A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.

    The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is :)
    I tried to come back after One Tamriel, but couldn't do it.  My Templar was 50 already, but I never found a build I enjoyed with him, mostly due to the disparity between stamina builds and Magicka ones.

    I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference.  I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset.  Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.

    Still, GW2 uses the scaling system that's similar to Witcher in that it's one way.  It's fairly effective at enabling high-level players to continue to enjoy starter zone content without completely tailoring the world to the player.
    Could it be that you simply choose the wrong class?
    Personally, I had fun with my Dragon Knight, but I'm having an utter blast with my Nightblade, and keep in mind that I usually never enjoy rogue like classes in MMOs.

    But then, as an early GW2 fan, I find ESO to now (with one Tamriel) be the better game except maybe the GW2 dynamic events, but even then, ESO has awesome quest lines all over the place while for most other theme parkish games, it's one rare awesome quest among thousands of mundane tasks.
    For me it was the opposite. I hated Nightblade, but switched to a Dragonknight/caster and it's actually not as bad. I think I felt it would play like GW2 thief, and it does not. I will see how it goes and mess with some builds a bit. Still up for giving this game a shot again, at least just for some easy solo PvE. I've played out all the content in GW2 for now, not many achievements I feel like messing with, so until they publish a new chapter there, I'll be trying ESO.
    My Nigthblade is actually a tank :)

    So I'm a heavy armor wearing bow/sword/shield using stealthy ninja (only sword/shield when tanking dungeons). It's awesomely fun. No need to mention I can easily solo things like most world bosses, and I can stealth my way to the place I want to be too. Two sets of armor and skills, one for pure tanking - heavy armor - and one ninja set - medium armor. Both thieves and assassin skill lines maxed out too of course (VERY fun quest lines, must do!).

    The amount of character customization possible through both skill sets and gear is amazing in this game. I recommend the addons from Iakoni "Gear Changer" and "Skill Changer" to enjoy this game to the fullest.
    immodiumTorval
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,364
    Tiller said:
    Viper482 said:
    I've been playing since closed Beta. I enjoy the game. Either you like it or you don't, just like any other game on the market.
    But hopefully @OP you feel vindicated now that you've come here and made a post about it and have been consoled by all the other posters who don't like TESO.

    It's a discussion forum, and this was interesting enough to reach 6 pages so far. Get off the high horse.
    I was sincerely asking what people like about it lol. Funny thing is, reading some of the posts from people who do like it, and why they like it I decided to try a new class and start from the beginning again. I'm not trying to make that mad dash to end game like I have gotten in the habit of doing with some many MMOs, so minus some of the glaring issues I mentioned it's not bad. It's mostly a story PvE game, so I play it as such. Actually I bought the Summerset expansion so I could get Morrowind for free.


    If you dash to the end of a MMO surely that's going to make them all seem the same? It does explain one thing, the way you focus in on mechanics far more than many of us do. I too would be thinking more about the games combat if the rest of the MMO was a blur. I would suggest you make sure a MMO has the mechanics you want, first and foremost before you give it a go. For me story and lore are as important if not more, each to his own.

     25 Agrees

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  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,403
    Iselin said:
    pantaro said:
    Iselin said:
    Tiller said:
    TheAmir said:
    YashaX said:
    TheAmir said:
     Crafting is just OK, but at least you can make something useful for your lowbie character right away, unlike most MMOs. 
    Why is the crafting "just ok"? I have seen a few people say that in this thread, and am genuinely curious about why you have that impression. 
    Because I prefer crafting that's a bit more in-depth. Don't get me wrong, it's not BAD compared to most MMOs, but it could have been MUCH more interesting and involved.
    Like when you can create parts of an object, then sell those parts off to make it easier for the next guy to craft the full item? Crafting in ESO is like get iron-make steel ingot-turns into full suit of armor. Not always as simple as that, but you get the point. You have type, material, style and trait. It's mostly a skill builder. The amount of material variation and overall steps involved in crafting in ESO is minimal in comparison to many MMOs. I think the only challenge is getting the stat variation you want, but the overall act of crafting is not challenging at all.
    It's simple enough or I wouldn't bother with it. When the acts of crafting and gathering become complex and tedious jobs, I don't really want anything to do with it.

    What ESO does better than most is keep crafting relevant from level 1 to end game by keeping the crafted items competitive with the best drops. This will be even more so that way with the upcoming jewelry crafting.

    The crafting leveling is also subtle and something beginners sometimes take a while to figure out: it's not so much about what quality tier you can craft and what styles or traits you can apply to it. ESO has always been about gaining access to crafting sets that are only available after you have researched a specific number of traits for each slot.

    That's just something that is time and location gated but not rare mat gated which is what makes crafting desirable gear in most other MMOs a PITA. If you have researched all 9 traits for something in ESO you can then craft the most desirable sets using the same mats tier as you would use to craft the junk required for daily crafting writs.

    It's a system designed to work in conjunction with sets which is what gearing in ESO is all about. The mechanics are simplified but the end result, which should be what crafting is all about, are varied and rewarding.
    this is interesting to me because i was always under the impression that at launch they said crafting was supposed to be the way you described,but that slowly drops became better like in most themepark mmo's.

    I probably would be more likely to tolerate the things i dont like about ESO if what you say is actually true.






    This is all post CP160 of course, when items become permanent. The huge increase of sets everywhere that drop like candy with One Tamriel together with the fact that you only get full benefit of gear if it's no lower than 5 levels below you, has made crafting while you level practically useless... that might be what you have heard and it's true.

    But at end game crafting is very relevant still which is the opposite compared to most other themeparks. 
    Just to clarify: in no way is crafting "practically useless" while leveling, imo the opposite is true. In fact one of the biggest differences in character strength apart from CP will be your ability to craft or get someone to craft for you. And it will be even better when we can craft jewellery in the new chapter. 

    For example, I can craft myself any set I want and put any trait into it while leveling. That might take me 20 mins every four levels, and I will have full sets with handpicked traits and stat bonuses. If you don't craft (or have a friend/guildy to do it for you), you will have to search/grind for the sets, often outleveling them by the time you get a full set together.

    Another wonderful thing about this: You only have to craft yourself stamina/magikca sets for every four levels once. Put them in your storage chests and whenever you level an alt you will have amazing gear ready to go. Very handy if you like the low level pvp campaign!

    Crafting is amazing in ESO :)
    Jean-Luc_PicardpantaroGdemami
    ....
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,572
    Tiller said:
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    JeroKane said:
    eddieg50 said:
    Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?  

    Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
    I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
    The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards.  So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.

    The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion.  Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
    I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.

    The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.

    The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.

    Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.

    A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.

    The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is :)
    I tried to come back after One Tamriel, but couldn't do it.  My Templar was 50 already, but I never found a build I enjoyed with him, mostly due to the disparity between stamina builds and Magicka ones.

    I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference.  I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset.  Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.

    Still, GW2 uses the scaling system that's similar to Witcher in that it's one way.  It's fairly effective at enabling high-level players to continue to enjoy starter zone content without completely tailoring the world to the player.
    Could it be that you simply choose the wrong class?
    Personally, I had fun with my Dragon Knight, but I'm having an utter blast with my Nightblade, and keep in mind that I usually never enjoy rogue like classes in MMOs.

    But then, as an early GW2 fan, I find ESO to now (with one Tamriel) be the better game except maybe the GW2 dynamic events, but even then, ESO has awesome quest lines all over the place while for most other theme parkish games, it's one rare awesome quest among thousands of mundane tasks.
    For me it was the opposite. I hated Nightblade, but switched to a Dragonknight/caster and it's actually not as bad. I think I felt it would play like GW2 thief, and it does not. I will see how it goes and mess with some builds a bit. Still up for giving this game a shot again, at least just for some easy solo PvE. I've played out all the content in GW2 for now, not many achievements I feel like messing with, so until they publish a new chapter there, I'll be trying ESO.
    My Nigthblade is actually a tank :)

    So I'm a heavy armor wearing bow/sword/shield using stealthy ninja (only sword/shield when tanking dungeons). It's awesomely fun. No need to mention I can easily solo things like most world bosses, and I can stealth my way to the place I want to be too. Two sets of armor and skills, one for pure tanking - heavy armor - and one ninja set - medium armor. Both thieves and assassin skill lines maxed out too of course (VERY fun quest lines, must do!).

    The amount of character customization possible through both skill sets and gear is amazing in this game. I recommend the addons from Iakoni "Gear Changer" and "Skill Changer" to enjoy this game to the fullest.
    Mine was a Restoration Staff Healer. I've not played for a couple of years but it was easily viable as a main healer for all PvE content.

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,498
    YashaX said:
    Iselin said:
    pantaro said:
    Iselin said:
    Tiller said:
    TheAmir said:
    YashaX said:
    TheAmir said:
     Crafting is just OK, but at least you can make something useful for your lowbie character right away, unlike most MMOs. 
    Why is the crafting "just ok"? I have seen a few people say that in this thread, and am genuinely curious about why you have that impression. 
    Because I prefer crafting that's a bit more in-depth. Don't get me wrong, it's not BAD compared to most MMOs, but it could have been MUCH more interesting and involved.
    Like when you can create parts of an object, then sell those parts off to make it easier for the next guy to craft the full item? Crafting in ESO is like get iron-make steel ingot-turns into full suit of armor. Not always as simple as that, but you get the point. You have type, material, style and trait. It's mostly a skill builder. The amount of material variation and overall steps involved in crafting in ESO is minimal in comparison to many MMOs. I think the only challenge is getting the stat variation you want, but the overall act of crafting is not challenging at all.
    It's simple enough or I wouldn't bother with it. When the acts of crafting and gathering become complex and tedious jobs, I don't really want anything to do with it.

    What ESO does better than most is keep crafting relevant from level 1 to end game by keeping the crafted items competitive with the best drops. This will be even more so that way with the upcoming jewelry crafting.

    The crafting leveling is also subtle and something beginners sometimes take a while to figure out: it's not so much about what quality tier you can craft and what styles or traits you can apply to it. ESO has always been about gaining access to crafting sets that are only available after you have researched a specific number of traits for each slot.

    That's just something that is time and location gated but not rare mat gated which is what makes crafting desirable gear in most other MMOs a PITA. If you have researched all 9 traits for something in ESO you can then craft the most desirable sets using the same mats tier as you would use to craft the junk required for daily crafting writs.

    It's a system designed to work in conjunction with sets which is what gearing in ESO is all about. The mechanics are simplified but the end result, which should be what crafting is all about, are varied and rewarding.
    this is interesting to me because i was always under the impression that at launch they said crafting was supposed to be the way you described,but that slowly drops became better like in most themepark mmo's.

    I probably would be more likely to tolerate the things i dont like about ESO if what you say is actually true.






    This is all post CP160 of course, when items become permanent. The huge increase of sets everywhere that drop like candy with One Tamriel together with the fact that you only get full benefit of gear if it's no lower than 5 levels below you, has made crafting while you level practically useless... that might be what you have heard and it's true.

    But at end game crafting is very relevant still which is the opposite compared to most other themeparks. 
    Just to clarify: in no way is crafting "practically useless" while leveling, imo the opposite is true. In fact one of the biggest differences in character strength apart from CP will be your ability to craft or get someone to craft for you. And it will be even better when we can craft jewellery in the new chapter. 

    For example, I can craft myself any set I want and put any trait into it while leveling. That might take me 20 mins every four levels, and I will have full sets with handpicked traits and stat bonuses. If you don't craft (or have a friend/guildy to do it for you), you will have to search/grind for the sets, often outleveling them by the time you get a full set together.

    Another wonderful thing about this: You only have to craft yourself stamina/magikca sets for every four levels once. Put them in your storage chests and whenever you level an alt you will have amazing gear ready to go. Very handy if you like the low level pvp campaign!

    Crafting is amazing in ESO :)
    There isn't much "searching and grinding" for sets if you level normally in PVE doing the content in a zone and sprinkling that with dungeons from level 10 on. I have no problem whatsoever and even though I have had max level crafters in everything for a couple of years I have not bothered crafting anything whatsoever for any of my many disposable 1-50 alts I have leveled since One Tamriel went live.

    I can just level in Rivenspire if I want Necropotence or in Auridon if I want Elegance sets. That + the random dungeon blue drops has me running around with one or two full sets of very nice stuff without ever crafting.

    If you do the delves and public dungeon in a zone, look for chests to pick and run the odd dolmain or two you can keep yourself in 100% level appropriate gear for that set. Same with dungeons if you want to keep your Viper set, for example, up to your level.

    Crafting and keeping multiples of sets in your bank for alts sounds good in theory but they take up a lot of room. You might be able to do that before you're CP160 but after that all available bank and mule space fills up with Monster sets and any CP160 gear you may be thinking of using in a future build. Once you have 12 max CP characters as I have, all your available storage will be used up pretty quickly with dropped item sets you may be collecting... especially all the BOP stuff. 

    I'm not saying there is no benefit from hand picking crafted sets for low level characters but it is 100% unnecessary with the plentiful drops of perfectly viable sets. I have no problem at all maintaining 35K+ magicka or stamina, (often 40K+) with 2K+ weapon or spell power on any of my characters from level 25 on without ever crafting a thing for them.

    You may not remember back before One Tamriel but low level sets were quite rare drops back then. But 1T added 3 sets for each zone and 3 for each dungeon plus the monster 2-piece set. What you're saying about grinds and hassles applied to pre-1T ESO but it sure isn't that way now. YMMV but IMO, crafting low level stuff is just a hobby now if you really, really love crafting but there's is zero need to do it.
    pantaro
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,403
    edited April 2018
    Iselin said:
    There isn't much "searching and grinding" for sets if you level normally in PVE doing the content in a zone and sprinkling that with dungeons from level 10 on. I have no problem whatsoever and even though I have had max level crafters in everything for a couple of years I have not bothered crafting anything whatsoever for any of my many disposable 1-50 alts I have leveled since One Tamriel went live.

    I can just level in Rivenspire if I want Necropotence or in Auridon if I want Elegance sets. That + the random dungeon blue drops has me running around with one or two full sets of very nice stuff without ever crafting.

    If you do the delves and public dungeon in a zone, look for chests to pick and run the odd dolmain or two you can keep yourself in 100% level appropriate gear for that set. Same with dungeons if you want to keep your Viper set, for example, up to your level.

    Crafting and keeping multiples of sets in your bank for alts sounds good in theory but they take up a lot of room. You might be able to do that before you're CP160 but after that all available bank and mule space fills up with Monster sets and any CP160 gear you may be thinking of using in a future build. Once you have 12 max CP characters as I have, all your available storage will be used up pretty quickly with dropped item sets you may be collecting... especially all the BOP stuff. 

    I'm not saying there is no benefit from hand picking crafted sets for low level characters but it is 100% unnecessary with the plentiful drops of perfectly viable sets. I have no problem at all maintaining 35K+ magicka or stamina, (often 40K+) with 2K+ weapon or spell power on any of my characters from level 25 on without ever crafting a thing for them.

    You may not remember back before One Tamriel but low level sets were quite rare drops back then. But 1T added 3 sets for each zone and 3 for each dungeon plus the monster 2-piece set. What you're saying about grinds and hassles applied to pre-1T ESO but it sure isn't that way now. YMMV but IMO, crafting low level stuff is just a hobby now if you really, really love crafting but there's is zero need to do it.
    It depends how you play, I guess you must be really good at pve (know where to go, do things efficiently, etc). I find I outlevel the gear I find before getting a full set of pve gear, so I just use the jewellery from the dolmens - but even just grinding dolmens its hard to maintain a set of level appropriate blue/purple jewellery. That won't be a problem anymore in the near future :)

    The new storage chests solved my storage issues: I have one each for low level mag/stam gear. 
    Also you have no control over traits if you just use pve drops. 

    My low level characters became exponentially stronger once I started taking the time to craft them proper sets; before then they tended to just wear a mishmash of terrible gear. Now I don't set foot into cyrodiil without my beautiful, hand crafted, stylish weapons and armor.
    pantaro
    ....
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 5,962
    Tiller said:
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    JeroKane said:
    eddieg50 said:
    Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?  

    Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
    I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
    The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards.  So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.

    The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion.  Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
    I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.

    The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.

    The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.

    Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.

    A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.

    The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is :)
    I tried to come back after One Tamriel, but couldn't do it.  My Templar was 50 already, but I never found a build I enjoyed with him, mostly due to the disparity between stamina builds and Magicka ones.

    I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference.  I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset.  Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.

    Still, GW2 uses the scaling system that's similar to Witcher in that it's one way.  It's fairly effective at enabling high-level players to continue to enjoy starter zone content without completely tailoring the world to the player.
    Could it be that you simply choose the wrong class?
    Personally, I had fun with my Dragon Knight, but I'm having an utter blast with my Nightblade, and keep in mind that I usually never enjoy rogue like classes in MMOs.

    But then, as an early GW2 fan, I find ESO to now (with one Tamriel) be the better game except maybe the GW2 dynamic events, but even then, ESO has awesome quest lines all over the place while for most other theme parkish games, it's one rare awesome quest among thousands of mundane tasks.
    For me it was the opposite. I hated Nightblade, but switched to a Dragonknight/caster and it's actually not as bad. I think I felt it would play like GW2 thief, and it does not. I will see how it goes and mess with some builds a bit. Still up for giving this game a shot again, at least just for some easy solo PvE. I've played out all the content in GW2 for now, not many achievements I feel like messing with, so until they publish a new chapter there, I'll be trying ESO.
    My Nigthblade is actually a tank :)

    So I'm a heavy armor wearing bow/sword/shield using stealthy ninja (only sword/shield when tanking dungeons). It's awesomely fun. No need to mention I can easily solo things like most world bosses, and I can stealth my way to the place I want to be too. Two sets of armor and skills, one for pure tanking - heavy armor - and one ninja set - medium armor. Both thieves and assassin skill lines maxed out too of course (VERY fun quest lines, must do!).

    The amount of character customization possible through both skill sets and gear is amazing in this game. I recommend the addons from Iakoni "Gear Changer" and "Skill Changer" to enjoy this game to the fullest.
    Is Nightblade caster possible? Regardless, ES:O is...fine. But it's too out there for me and it almost breaks TES lore. I WISH I could enjoy it, but...
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,403
    Gorwe said:

    Is Nightblade caster possible? 
    Yes, and it works well (at least in pvp).
    ....
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,498
    YashaX said:
    Gorwe said:

    Is Nightblade caster possible? 
    Yes, and it works well (at least in pvp).
    Magblades work great in PVE too. Whether off healing or main healing they have several good DPS abilities that do good damage and heal others. Closest thing ESO has to a Rift Chloromancer or WAR Archmage.
    YashaXTorvalMrMelGibson
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited April 2018
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    JeroKane said:
    eddieg50 said:
    Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?  

    Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
    I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
    The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards.  So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.

    The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion.  Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
    I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.

    The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.

    The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.

    Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.

    A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.

    The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is :)
    I tried to come back after One Tamriel, but couldn't do it.  My Templar was 50 already, but I never found a build I enjoyed with him, mostly due to the disparity between stamina builds and Magicka ones.

    I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference.  I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset.  Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.

    Still, GW2 uses the scaling system that's similar to Witcher in that it's one way.  It's fairly effective at enabling high-level players to continue to enjoy starter zone content without completely tailoring the world to the player.
    Could it be that you simply choose the wrong class?
    Personally, I had fun with my Dragon Knight, but I'm having an utter blast with my Nightblade, and keep in mind that I usually never enjoy rogue like classes in MMOs.

    But then, as an early GW2 fan, I find ESO to now (with one Tamriel) be the better game except maybe the GW2 dynamic events, but even then, ESO has awesome quest lines all over the place while for most other theme parkish games, it's one rare awesome quest among thousands of mundane tasks.
    I might give it a go again this summer then.  Maybe roll a magic class, as most of my characters in ESO have focused on weapon attacks and melee combat.

    image
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,642
    Scot said:
    Tiller said:
    Viper482 said:
    I've been playing since closed Beta. I enjoy the game. Either you like it or you don't, just like any other game on the market.
    But hopefully @OP you feel vindicated now that you've come here and made a post about it and have been consoled by all the other posters who don't like TESO.

    It's a discussion forum, and this was interesting enough to reach 6 pages so far. Get off the high horse.
    I was sincerely asking what people like about it lol. Funny thing is, reading some of the posts from people who do like it, and why they like it I decided to try a new class and start from the beginning again. I'm not trying to make that mad dash to end game like I have gotten in the habit of doing with some many MMOs, so minus some of the glaring issues I mentioned it's not bad. It's mostly a story PvE game, so I play it as such. Actually I bought the Summerset expansion so I could get Morrowind for free.


    If you dash to the end of a MMO surely that's going to make them all seem the same? It does explain one thing, the way you focus in on mechanics far more than many of us do. I too would be thinking more about the games combat if the rest of the MMO was a blur. I would suggest you make sure a MMO has the mechanics you want, first and foremost before you give it a go. For me story and lore are as important if not more, each to his own.
    Another habit from GW2 and SWG. In those games it was a lot easier to enjoy the story once you had a fully leveled character. I think Aion and SWTOR were the only games that I can remember where I actually enjoyed the leveling up process, because leveling felt like part of the journey within the story itself, rather than a chore.
    Smokewood


  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,364
    Tiller said:
    Scot said:
    Tiller said:
    Viper482 said:
    I've been playing since closed Beta. I enjoy the game. Either you like it or you don't, just like any other game on the market.
    But hopefully @OP you feel vindicated now that you've come here and made a post about it and have been consoled by all the other posters who don't like TESO.

    It's a discussion forum, and this was interesting enough to reach 6 pages so far. Get off the high horse.
    I was sincerely asking what people like about it lol. Funny thing is, reading some of the posts from people who do like it, and why they like it I decided to try a new class and start from the beginning again. I'm not trying to make that mad dash to end game like I have gotten in the habit of doing with some many MMOs, so minus some of the glaring issues I mentioned it's not bad. It's mostly a story PvE game, so I play it as such. Actually I bought the Summerset expansion so I could get Morrowind for free.


    If you dash to the end of a MMO surely that's going to make them all seem the same? It does explain one thing, the way you focus in on mechanics far more than many of us do. I too would be thinking more about the games combat if the rest of the MMO was a blur. I would suggest you make sure a MMO has the mechanics you want, first and foremost before you give it a go. For me story and lore are as important if not more, each to his own.
    Another habit from GW2 and SWG. In those games it was a lot easier to enjoy the story once you had a fully leveled character. I think Aion and SWTOR were the only games that I can remember where I actually enjoyed the leveling up process, because leveling felt like part of the journey within the story itself, rather than a chore.

    I certainly agree that levelling up was more enjoyable in SWTOR, I think that's partly due to my concern that ESO never quite encapsulated its IP as some other MMOs did there's. For me SWTOR's sticking point was its PvP, they had a regional PvP area that they replaced with scenario PvP. and though I really liked Hutt ball, Sith and Jedi playing a ball game together was a bit hokey. :)
    Smokewood

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  • SmokewoodSmokewood Member UncommonPosts: 10
    Tiller said:
    Scot said:
    Tiller said:
    Viper482 said:
    I've been playing since closed Beta. I enjoy the game. Either you like it or you don't, just like any other game on the market.
    But hopefully @OP you feel vindicated now that you've come here and made a post about it and have been consoled by all the other posters who don't like TESO.

    It's a discussion forum, and this was interesting enough to reach 6 pages so far. Get off the high horse.
    I was sincerely asking what people like about it lol. Funny thing is, reading some of the posts from people who do like it, and why they like it I decided to try a new class and start from the beginning again. I'm not trying to make that mad dash to end game like I have gotten in the habit of doing with some many MMOs, so minus some of the glaring issues I mentioned it's not bad. It's mostly a story PvE game, so I play it as such. Actually I bought the Summerset expansion so I could get Morrowind for free.


    If you dash to the end of a MMO surely that's going to make them all seem the same? It does explain one thing, the way you focus in on mechanics far more than many of us do. I too would be thinking more about the games combat if the rest of the MMO was a blur. I would suggest you make sure a MMO has the mechanics you want, first and foremost before you give it a go. For me story and lore are as important if not more, each to his own.
    Another habit from GW2 and SWG. In those games it was a lot easier to enjoy the story once you had a fully leveled character. I think Aion and SWTOR were the only games that I can remember where I actually enjoyed the leveling up process, because leveling felt like part of the journey within the story itself, rather than a chore.
    SWG had a story???
    You aren't talking about the Legacy Quest (from the NGE) are you?
  • KeushpuppyKeushpuppy Member UncommonPosts: 157
    OP needs to look for another game. I am having tons of fun and so is lots of others....
    JeroKaneYashaXGorwe
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 5,962
    OP needs to look for another game. I am having tons of fun and so is lots of others....
    There is a possibility he needs to rationalize things before he can enjoy things, but I mostly agree. If you need so many explanations to start having fun...not looking good imo. Try it again OP and reach the final conclusion. What can I say?
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,642
    edited April 2018
    Gorwe said:
    OP needs to look for another game. I am having tons of fun and so is lots of others....
    There is a possibility he needs to rationalize things before he can enjoy things, but I mostly agree. If you need so many explanations to start having fun...not looking good imo. Try it again OP and reach the final conclusion. What can I say?
    Both you guys are late to the party, read up a few posts and you will see I am giving it another go lol.

    Smokewood said:
    Tiller said:
    Scot said:
    Tiller said:
    Viper482 said:
    I've been playing since closed Beta. I enjoy the game. Either you like it or you don't, just like any other game on the market.
    But hopefully @OP you feel vindicated now that you've come here and made a post about it and have been consoled by all the other posters who don't like TESO.

    It's a discussion forum, and this was interesting enough to reach 6 pages so far. Get off the high horse.
    I was sincerely asking what people like about it lol. Funny thing is, reading some of the posts from people who do like it, and why they like it I decided to try a new class and start from the beginning again. I'm not trying to make that mad dash to end game like I have gotten in the habit of doing with some many MMOs, so minus some of the glaring issues I mentioned it's not bad. It's mostly a story PvE game, so I play it as such. Actually I bought the Summerset expansion so I could get Morrowind for free.


    If you dash to the end of a MMO surely that's going to make them all seem the same? It does explain one thing, the way you focus in on mechanics far more than many of us do. I too would be thinking more about the games combat if the rest of the MMO was a blur. I would suggest you make sure a MMO has the mechanics you want, first and foremost before you give it a go. For me story and lore are as important if not more, each to his own.
    Another habit from GW2 and SWG. In those games it was a lot easier to enjoy the story once you had a fully leveled character. I think Aion and SWTOR were the only games that I can remember where I actually enjoyed the leveling up process, because leveling felt like part of the journey within the story itself, rather than a chore.
    SWG had a story???
    You aren't talking about the Legacy Quest (from the NGE) are you?
    No, I'm talking about end game being the game in general (pre-cu). After the NGE it became a different game.


  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,230
    edited April 2018
    Getting to cap is kinda eh in ESO since you're really going to be doing the same thing that you were doing while  leveling up, just with potentially 1-2 more things sprinkled in. The otherside though is that when you hit CP160, you can start "enjoying" the game I guess since everything that will drop will be CP160, which is currently the gear cap. So if you find a set you like through questing, you can just increase the grade and not really have to worry about touching dungeons if you dont want. Dungeon grinding can be mind-numbing anyway if you're chasing a particular set with a particular trait (CURSE YOU DIVINES! CURSE YOU!).
    YashaX
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,498
    Albatroes said:
    Dungeon grinding can be mind-numbing anyway if you're chasing a particular set with a particular trait (CURSE YOU DIVINES! CURSE YOU!).
    IDK how long it's been since you played but trait anxiety is pretty well a thing of the past now since they added transmutation with the Clockwork City. A crafter can change a trait to any other trait they know for that item. 
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    I've tried a few times to enjoy ESO and I've just come to the conclusion that it is a truly fantastic game, but in the end just isn't the game for me. I think a lot of it has to do with not having any friends who play it, which just makes it seem like Skyrim-lite for me. On paper, ESO is *almost* everything I want in an MMO, though.
    Phry
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,403
    Iselin said:
    Albatroes said:
    Dungeon grinding can be mind-numbing anyway if you're chasing a particular set with a particular trait (CURSE YOU DIVINES! CURSE YOU!).
    IDK how long it's been since you played but trait anxiety is pretty well a thing of the past now since they added transmutation with the Clockwork City. A crafter can change a trait to any other trait they know for that item. 
    Yeah that is no issue for me because I pvp a lot so always have a heap of transmute crystals, but the grind is still real if you are looking for a specific gear drop (like a Lich sword or something).
    ....
  • klash2defklash2def Member RarePosts: 1,454
    I've tried a few times to enjoy ESO and I've just come to the conclusion that it is a truly fantastic game, but in the end just isn't the game for me. I think a lot of it has to do with not having any friends who play it, which just makes it seem like Skyrim-lite for me. On paper, ESO is *almost* everything I want in an MMO, though.
    So let me get this right. it's "almost everything" you want but its just not the game for you? 

    Are you saying that if there were 10 things on the list this game checks off 9 but that 1 thing is just too much to bear? Please tell me what that thing is? Not being a dick or anything, I'm really curious, because most games in this genre are similar in nature.


    Your issue about no friends is solved pretty easy. Just communicate with like-minded players in the game. You have to be willing to interact though to find those players. If you just log in and run randoms and log off then ya, it's kinda hard. I made a lot of my friends at launch but I think the best approach to be friendly towards people in the game and ask questions. ESO players are actually pretty chill from my experience. You get the occasional troll of course but my experience has been most people are mature.

    Ask for invites to groups, add folks to your friendlist.. the good stuff. :) 
    Octagon7711Jean-Luc_PicardMrMelGibson
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

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