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What the hell am I missing here with ESO?

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  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,134
    edited April 2018
    Scot said:
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago ..... 

    It is not just on this thread I have asked before: "Yes ESO has issues, but what other modern AAA MMO are you going to go to if not ESO?" Anyone would think we are gifted with huge range of quality modern AAA to choose from, we are not. ESO is a good AAA MMO, but if you have an alternative by all means speak up.
    I'd rather play other MMOs / games even if they are not AAA. There is a lot of choice. WoW, EQ 2, Guild Wars 1+2, SWTOR, LoTR:O etc. Even more out of MMO genre. And as I've been saying, ES:O is like Amstel of games. Thoroughly...tasteless for the most time. Almost no character lol.

    Well you have moved the goal posts, but lets look at that all the same. I am sure we can get to the truth here by comparing MMOs to beers/lagers:

    ESO is more like a Budweiser, not the most distinct offering to the palate, but cool, refreshing, not too heavy going and reliable.

    WoW is the Bud Light of MMOs, more casual, rather bland, you can get through an awful lot of it and feel you have not had much at all.

    EQ2 is the Abashiri, a colourful beer (possibly garish?) but one seen as lacking in many areas of taste due to its former vintage EQ.

    Guild Wars 2 is the Skol of the MMO world, low on alcohol, low on just about everything else, it to came from a better vintage, the first Guild Wars, so is all the more regrettable in comparison and leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth.

    SWTOR is the Corona of the MMO world, a well known beer with a storied past and coming from the distinctive dark and light casks.

    LotRo is the Heineken, now it was rather unfair to name this beer as over the years it has been my favourite MMO and is probably the best MMO in the world.


    Well there we have it, beer drinking has led us to truths that have never...hic...come to lite light before. Cheers! :D

    Yeah I disagree with that. GW2 is MMO isn't bad, but I know not everyone likes it. It is an easy game to play, like riding a bike. I can leave for 2 months, come back and pick it right back up were I left off. No confusion over skills or what they do, or where I am on the map. No need to always group to make it feel like I'm in an MMO, and  you can play with other people ungrouped without the long term commitment if you just don't have time due to character scaling and world scaling. You can jump in, play for one hour, jump back out. There are things I don't like about it, but it plays how they intended and have changed little since launch, other than enhancing some world events and making them harder.

    It may not be like GW1,  but it's set in the same world, which is the only point. The loot and rewards are fair, and while crafting isn't the best, you can make what you need easily enough. The community for the most part is talkative and helpful, but not as toxic as most games. If I find a mob that is too challenging for 1 person, almost always within 5 minutes someone else will randomly show up needing the same quest. The dynamic world events are really what makes the game in my opinion. I think people who hate GW2 just don't like dynamic events. If you do, then you will like the game.

    I honestly didn't think I would like GW2, but I find it's become my regular go to MMO because it's easy to play in short bursts without forgetting how to play or where to go to get what. I can log in, do some daily world events, get a bunch of loot, knock out a few achievements, log out and go about my day. So if anything I would say GW2 is the like the Corona of MMOs, you either love it or hate it, but in the end it's still poplar and rewarding for what it is.


    You are correct on the ESO being the Budweiser. I don't drink it because it's a boring domestic that tastes watered down, takes too long to get any kind of a buzz, comes mostly in a can and is cheap. I don't understand the mass appeal of it, though I know people like it.

    Post edited by Tiller on


  • DarkestOverlordDarkestOverlord Member UncommonPosts: 545
    You are missing carlos..BITCONNECT  WASU WASU WASU !




  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,073
    edited April 2018
    Tiller said:
    Scot said:
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago ..... 

    It is not just on this thread I have asked before: "Yes ESO has issues, but what other modern AAA MMO are you going to go to if not ESO?" Anyone would think we are gifted with huge range of quality modern AAA to choose from, we are not. ESO is a good AAA MMO, but if you have an alternative by all means speak up.
    I'd rather play other MMOs / games even if they are not AAA. There is a lot of choice. WoW, EQ 2, Guild Wars 1+2, SWTOR, LoTR:O etc. Even more out of MMO genre. And as I've been saying, ES:O is like Amstel of games. Thoroughly...tasteless for the most time. Almost no character lol.

    Well you have moved the goal posts, but lets look at that all the same. I am sure we can get to the truth here by comparing MMOs to beers/lagers:

    ESO is more like a Budweiser, not the most distinct offering to the palate, but cool, refreshing, not too heavy going and reliable.

    WoW is the Bud Light of MMOs, more casual, rather bland, you can get through an awful lot of it and feel you have not had much at all.

    EQ2 is the Abashiri, a colourful beer (possibly garish?) but one seen as lacking in many areas of taste due to its former vintage EQ.

    Guild Wars 2 is the Skol of the MMO world, low on alcohol, low on just about everything else, it to came from a better vintage, the first Guild Wars, so is all the more regrettable in comparison and leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth.

    SWTOR is the Corona of the MMO world, a well known beer with a storied past and coming from the distinctive dark and light casks.

    LotRo is the Heineken, now it was rather unfair to name this beer as over the years it has been my favourite MMO and is probably the best MMO in the world.


    Well there we have it, beer drinking has led us to truths that have never...hic...come to lite light before. Cheers! :D

    Yeah I disagree with that. GW2 is MMO isn't bad, but I know not everyone likes it. It is an easy game to play, like riding a bike. I can leave for 2 months, come back and pick it right back up were I left off. No confusion over skills or what they do, or where I am on the map. No need to always group to make it feel like I'm in an MMO, and  you can play with other people ungrouped without the long term commitment if you just don't have time due to character scaling and world scaling. You can jump in, play for one hour, jump back out. There are things I don't like about it, but it plays how they intended and have changed little since launch, other than enhancing some world events and making them harder.

    It may not be like GW1,  but it's set in the same world, which is the only point. The loot and rewards are fair, and while crafting isn't the best, you can make what you need easily enough. The community for the most part is talkative and helpful, but not as toxic as most games. If I find a mob that is too challenging for 1 person, almost always within 5 minutes someone else will randomly show up needing the same quest. The dynamic world events are really what makes the game in my opinion. I think people who hate GW2 just don't like dynamic events. If you do, then you will like the game.

    I honestly didn't think I would like GW2, but I find it's become my regular go to MMO because it's easy to play in short bursts without forgetting how to play or where to go to get what. I can log in, do some daily world events, get a bunch of loot, knock out a few achievements, log out and go about my day. So if anything I would say GW2 is the like the Corona of MMOs, you either love it or hate it, but in the end it's still poplar and rewarding for what it is.



    Glad to see we are really getting to the bottom of all this with the beer analogies. :)

    As you gathered of those mentioned I really dislike GW2, but rather liked the first GW.

    The thing is if we compare any MMO to a list of the top MMOs of all time it is going to be found wanting. Where I think Gorwe has a point is that ESO did not encapsulate its IP as much as the likes of LotRO or SWtOR. If you ask players do you feel this is the Eldur Scrolls world, I doubt as many would be as positive as they would about the other two.

    If think ESO got caught between making an online world and making a ES online world. The mix was not as good as it could have been. But still the best modern AAA out there, though admittedly in my eyes only somewhat better than the likes of SWL, but still only just is still the best.

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  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,134
    edited April 2018
    TheAmir said:
    YashaX said:
    TheAmir said:
     Crafting is just OK, but at least you can make something useful for your lowbie character right away, unlike most MMOs. 
    Why is the crafting "just ok"? I have seen a few people say that in this thread, and am genuinely curious about why you have that impression. 
    Because I prefer crafting that's a bit more in-depth. Don't get me wrong, it's not BAD compared to most MMOs, but it could have been MUCH more interesting and involved.
    Like when you can create parts of an object, then sell those parts off to make it easier for the next guy to craft the full item? Crafting in ESO is like get iron-make steel ingot-turns into full suit of armor. Not always as simple as that, but you get the point. You have type, material, style and trait. It's mostly a skill builder. The amount of material variation and overall steps involved in crafting in ESO is minimal in comparison to many MMOs. I think the only challenge is getting the stat variation you want, but the overall act of crafting is not challenging at all.


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Sovrath said:
    JeroKane said:
    eddieg50 said:
    Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?  

    Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
    I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
    The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards.  So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.

    The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion.  Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
    TorvalSovrath[Deleted User]MrMelGibson

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,040
    Tiller said:
    TheAmir said:
    YashaX said:
    TheAmir said:
     Crafting is just OK, but at least you can make something useful for your lowbie character right away, unlike most MMOs. 
    Why is the crafting "just ok"? I have seen a few people say that in this thread, and am genuinely curious about why you have that impression. 
    Because I prefer crafting that's a bit more in-depth. Don't get me wrong, it's not BAD compared to most MMOs, but it could have been MUCH more interesting and involved.
    Like when you can create parts of an object, then sell those parts off to make it easier for the next guy to craft the full item? Crafting in ESO is like get iron-make steel ingot-turns into full suit of armor. Not always as simple as that, but you get the point. You have type, material, style and trait. It's mostly a skill builder. The amount of material variation and overall steps involved in crafting in ESO is minimal in comparison to many MMOs. I think the only challenge is getting the stat variation you want, but the overall act of crafting is not challenging at all.
    It's simple enough or I wouldn't bother with it. When the acts of crafting and gathering become complex and tedious jobs, I don't really want anything to do with it.

    What ESO does better than most is keep crafting relevant from level 1 to end game by keeping the crafted items competitive with the best drops. This will be even more so that way with the upcoming jewelry crafting.

    The crafting leveling is also subtle and something beginners sometimes take a while to figure out: it's not so much about what quality tier you can craft and what styles or traits you can apply to it. ESO has always been about gaining access to crafting sets that are only available after you have researched a specific number of traits for each slot.

    That's just something that is time and location gated but not rare mat gated which is what makes crafting desirable gear in most other MMOs a PITA. If you have researched all 9 traits for something in ESO you can then craft the most desirable sets using the same mats tier as you would use to craft the junk required for daily crafting writs.

    It's a system designed to work in conjunction with sets which is what gearing in ESO is all about. The mechanics are simplified but the end result, which should be what crafting is all about, are varied and rewarding.
    TillerYashaXScotpantaroMrMelGibson
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • DarkestOverlordDarkestOverlord Member UncommonPosts: 545
    Haha im part of something now :p




  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,040
    Sovrath said:
    JeroKane said:
    eddieg50 said:
    Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?  

    Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
    I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
    The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards.  So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.

    The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion.  Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
    I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.

    The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.

    The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.

    Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.

    A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.

    The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is :)
    SlyLoKTorvalMrMelGibson
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,134
    Scot said:
    Tiller said:
    Scot said:
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago ..... 

    It is not just on this thread I have asked before: "Yes ESO has issues, but what other modern AAA MMO are you going to go to if not ESO?" Anyone would think we are gifted with huge range of quality modern AAA to choose from, we are not. ESO is a good AAA MMO, but if you have an alternative by all means speak up.
    I'd rather play other MMOs / games even if they are not AAA. There is a lot of choice. WoW, EQ 2, Guild Wars 1+2, SWTOR, LoTR:O etc. Even more out of MMO genre. And as I've been saying, ES:O is like Amstel of games. Thoroughly...tasteless for the most time. Almost no character lol.

    Well you have moved the goal posts, but lets look at that all the same. I am sure we can get to the truth here by comparing MMOs to beers/lagers:

    ESO is more like a Budweiser, not the most distinct offering to the palate, but cool, refreshing, not too heavy going and reliable.

    WoW is the Bud Light of MMOs, more casual, rather bland, you can get through an awful lot of it and feel you have not had much at all.

    EQ2 is the Abashiri, a colourful beer (possibly garish?) but one seen as lacking in many areas of taste due to its former vintage EQ.

    Guild Wars 2 is the Skol of the MMO world, low on alcohol, low on just about everything else, it to came from a better vintage, the first Guild Wars, so is all the more regrettable in comparison and leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth.

    SWTOR is the Corona of the MMO world, a well known beer with a storied past and coming from the distinctive dark and light casks.

    LotRo is the Heineken, now it was rather unfair to name this beer as over the years it has been my favourite MMO and is probably the best MMO in the world.


    Well there we have it, beer drinking has led us to truths that have never...hic...come to lite light before. Cheers! :D

    Yeah I disagree with that. GW2 is MMO isn't bad, but I know not everyone likes it. It is an easy game to play, like riding a bike. I can leave for 2 months, come back and pick it right back up were I left off. No confusion over skills or what they do, or where I am on the map. No need to always group to make it feel like I'm in an MMO, and  you can play with other people ungrouped without the long term commitment if you just don't have time due to character scaling and world scaling. You can jump in, play for one hour, jump back out. There are things I don't like about it, but it plays how they intended and have changed little since launch, other than enhancing some world events and making them harder.

    It may not be like GW1,  but it's set in the same world, which is the only point. The loot and rewards are fair, and while crafting isn't the best, you can make what you need easily enough. The community for the most part is talkative and helpful, but not as toxic as most games. If I find a mob that is too challenging for 1 person, almost always within 5 minutes someone else will randomly show up needing the same quest. The dynamic world events are really what makes the game in my opinion. I think people who hate GW2 just don't like dynamic events. If you do, then you will like the game.

    I honestly didn't think I would like GW2, but I find it's become my regular go to MMO because it's easy to play in short bursts without forgetting how to play or where to go to get what. I can log in, do some daily world events, get a bunch of loot, knock out a few achievements, log out and go about my day. So if anything I would say GW2 is the like the Corona of MMOs, you either love it or hate it, but in the end it's still poplar and rewarding for what it is.



    Glad to see we are really getting to the bottom of all this with the beer analogies. :)

    As you gathered of those mentioned I really dislike GW2, but rather liked the first GW.

    The thing is if we compare any MMO to a list of the top MMOs of all time it is going to be found wanting. Where I think Gorwe has a point is that ESO did not encapsulate its IP as much as the likes of LotRO or SWtOR. If you ask players do you feel this is the Eldur Scrolls world, I doubt as many would be as positive as they would about the other two.

    If think ESO got caught between making an online world and making a ES online world. The mix was not as good as it could have been. But still the best modern AAA out there, though admittedly in my eyes only somewhat better than the likes of SWL, but still only just is still the best.
    To be fair, like I said I want to like this game. Yes there are parts I don't like, I can say that about all games I play. None of what I listed is a total game killer for me believe it or not. I was honestly looking for ideas.

    I can appreciate the quest delivery, but not always the quests (flashy ways to kill 10 rats) and less puzzles. Crafting is just a thing to do when you need it, not really something to make an ingame career out of, I get that. The animations and graphics aren't the best, ok it's an older Western game, not a huge deal.

    I'm seriously wondering what it is that captivates people because maybe I'm not looking in the right places. I wish there were more dynamic large scale events in the base game, more interesting ways to train mounts,  more puzzles and challenges in quests, fishing could also be a bit more interesting, though I know not everyone cares about that. It really kind of actually reminds me of a newer version of DDO, (minus puzzles) which wasn't great, but also wasn't terrible.

     Just so you know I do not own Morrowind, only the base game, so I am considering buying the Summerset expansion since Morrowind comes free for pre-orders and I heard lots of great things about it. They are definitely fair on cost of expansions and content, so I gotta give them that.






  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    JeroKane said:
    eddieg50 said:
    Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?  

    Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
    I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
    The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards.  So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.

    The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion.  Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
    I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.

    The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.

    The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.

    Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.

    A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.

    The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is :)
    I tried to come back after One Tamriel, but couldn't do it.  My Templar was 50 already, but I never found a build I enjoyed with him, mostly due to the disparity between stamina builds and Magicka ones.

    I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference.  I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset.  Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.

    Still, GW2 uses the scaling system that's similar to Witcher in that it's one way.  It's fairly effective at enabling high-level players to continue to enjoy starter zone content without completely tailoring the world to the player.
    Torval[Deleted User]

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,040
    Tiller said:

    To be fair, like I said I want to like this game. Yes there are parts I don't like, I can say that about all games I play. None of what I listed is a total game killer for me believe it or not. I was honestly looking for ideas.

    I can appreciate the quest delivery, but not always the quests (flashy ways to kill 10 rats) and less puzzles. Crafting is just a thing to do when you need it, not really something to make an ingame career out of, I get that. The animations and graphics aren't the best, ok it's an older Western game, not a huge deal.

    I'm seriously wondering what it is that captivates people because maybe I'm not looking in the right places. I wish there were more dynamic large scale events in the base game, more interesting ways to train mounts,  more puzzles and challenges in quests, fishing could also be a bit more interesting, though I know not everyone cares about that. It really kind of actually reminds me of a newer version of DDO, (minus puzzles) which wasn't great, but also wasn't terrible.

     Just so you know I do not own Morrowind, only the base game, so I am considering buying the Summerset expansion since Morrowind comes free for pre-orders and I heard lots of great things about it. They are definitely fair on cost of expansions and content, so I gotta give them that.




    It's the whole package. It either works for you as a whole or it doesn't. It's a highly subjective thing. There are many things in ESO that could be better and I have seen done better in other games: 

    1. The casual group events in zones are a giant step backwards from what was done in GW2 or Rift as I have said many times.
    2. Archeage and many others have done housing better
    3. BDO mount capturing and breeding is infinitely better as is BDO fishing
    4. ...and so on.

    And yet, I no longer play Rift nor GW2 except once in a blue moon and I only played BDO and Archage for a couple of months each. Why? I'm not even going to try to rationalize it because I'd just be cherry picking petty personal annoyances when the truth is that the whole package just din't do it for me in the end.

    There could be another MMO I try in the future that as a whole makes me want to play that instead of ESO and that's just what I will do then. But I doubt I'll be doing that for any 1 or 2 details: it'll be because the game as a whole is just more fun for me.

    MadFrenchieYashaXScotMrMelGibson
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,040
    I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference.  I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset.  Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.


    I understand what you're saying about the mobs you can't handle while low level but then you can when higher. That gives the world a sense of some places being more dangerous than others - I like that too.

    But that is something that can be done well or poorly and it's not entirely missing in ESO.

    To me a rat is just a frigging rat. I don't want level 5 rats and level 40 rats and so on. That's just re-purposed asset cheese which is exactly what many MMOs do with rats or bears or bandits.

    ESO has zone bosses and some zones and places that are just plain tougher than others. The whole Craglorn Zone is like that and will demolish a low level character in seconds - heck even high level characters merely have a fighting chance in some parts of that zone. Same with zone bosses that you might be able to solo when you're high level (if you know what you're doing) but will swat any low level player aside. Challenges are there but not as formalized and guided as in zone progression MMOs.

    MadFrenchieSovrathJean-Luc_PicardlaseritMrMelGibson
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • psychosiz1psychosiz1 Member UncommonPosts: 165
    Your not missing a thing.  I love the Elder Scrolls, but Elder Scrolls Online missed the boat for me.  I know I'm not the only one, but people do like this game and more power to them.  We all need to choose what works for us.
    Scot
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Iselin said:
    I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference.  I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset.  Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.


    I understand what you're saying about the mobs you can't handle while low level but then you can when higher. That gives the world a sense of some places being more dangerous than others - I like that too.

    But that is something that can be done well or poorly and it's not entirely missing in ESO.

    To me a rat is just a frigging rat. I don't want level 5 rats and level 40 rats and so on. That's just re-purposed asset cheese which is exactly what many MMOs do with rats or bears or bandits.

    ESO has zone bosses and some zones and places that are just plain tougher than others. The whole Craglorn Zone is like that and will demolish a low level character in seconds - heck even high level characters merely have a fighting chance in some parts of that zone. Same with zone bosses that you might be able to solo when you're high level (if you know what you're doing) but will swat any low level player aside. Challenges are there but not as formalized and guided as in zone progression MMOs.

    Yea, that's why I always try to refrain from implying I think ESO is a bad game.  I just don't think it's for me.  It's unfortunate as I enjoy the setting, but I was very excited for Cyrodiil being a DAoC vet, and the development took a different path.  That's okay, because it's still quality and presents systems and challenges that a lot of folks enjoy.

    image
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,209
    Scot said:
    Tiller said:
    Scot said:
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago ..... 

    It is not just on this thread I have asked before: "Yes ESO has issues, but what other modern AAA MMO are you going to go to if not ESO?" Anyone would think we are gifted with huge range of quality modern AAA to choose from, we are not. ESO is a good AAA MMO, but if you have an alternative by all means speak up.
    I'd rather play other MMOs / games even if they are not AAA. There is a lot of choice. WoW, EQ 2, Guild Wars 1+2, SWTOR, LoTR:O etc. Even more out of MMO genre. And as I've been saying, ES:O is like Amstel of games. Thoroughly...tasteless for the most time. Almost no character lol.

    Well you have moved the goal posts, but lets look at that all the same. I am sure we can get to the truth here by comparing MMOs to beers/lagers:

    ESO is more like a Budweiser, not the most distinct offering to the palate, but cool, refreshing, not too heavy going and reliable.

    WoW is the Bud Light of MMOs, more casual, rather bland, you can get through an awful lot of it and feel you have not had much at all.

    EQ2 is the Abashiri, a colourful beer (possibly garish?) but one seen as lacking in many areas of taste due to its former vintage EQ.

    Guild Wars 2 is the Skol of the MMO world, low on alcohol, low on just about everything else, it to came from a better vintage, the first Guild Wars, so is all the more regrettable in comparison and leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth.

    SWTOR is the Corona of the MMO world, a well known beer with a storied past and coming from the distinctive dark and light casks.

    LotRo is the Heineken, now it was rather unfair to name this beer as over the years it has been my favourite MMO and is probably the best MMO in the world.


    Well there we have it, beer drinking has led us to truths that have never...hic...come to lite light before. Cheers! :D

    Yeah I disagree with that. GW2 is MMO isn't bad, but I know not everyone likes it. It is an easy game to play, like riding a bike. I can leave for 2 months, come back and pick it right back up were I left off. No confusion over skills or what they do, or where I am on the map. No need to always group to make it feel like I'm in an MMO, and  you can play with other people ungrouped without the long term commitment if you just don't have time due to character scaling and world scaling. You can jump in, play for one hour, jump back out. There are things I don't like about it, but it plays how they intended and have changed little since launch, other than enhancing some world events and making them harder.

    It may not be like GW1,  but it's set in the same world, which is the only point. The loot and rewards are fair, and while crafting isn't the best, you can make what you need easily enough. The community for the most part is talkative and helpful, but not as toxic as most games. If I find a mob that is too challenging for 1 person, almost always within 5 minutes someone else will randomly show up needing the same quest. The dynamic world events are really what makes the game in my opinion. I think people who hate GW2 just don't like dynamic events. If you do, then you will like the game.

    I honestly didn't think I would like GW2, but I find it's become my regular go to MMO because it's easy to play in short bursts without forgetting how to play or where to go to get what. I can log in, do some daily world events, get a bunch of loot, knock out a few achievements, log out and go about my day. So if anything I would say GW2 is the like the Corona of MMOs, you either love it or hate it, but in the end it's still poplar and rewarding for what it is.



    Glad to see we are really getting to the bottom of all this with the beer analogies. :)

    As you gathered of those mentioned I really dislike GW2, but rather liked the first GW.

    The thing is if we compare any MMO to a list of the top MMOs of all time it is going to be found wanting. Where I think Gorwe has a point is that ESO did not encapsulate its IP as much as the likes of LotRO or SWtOR. If you ask players do you feel this is the Eldur Scrolls world, I doubt as many would be as positive as they would about the other two.

    If think ESO got caught between making an online world and making a ES online world. The mix was not as good as it could have been. But still the best modern AAA out there, though admittedly in my eyes only somewhat better than the likes of SWL, but still only just is still the best.
    ESO just isn't for me then. I simply don't "get" it. And GW 2's such a disappointment, no?
  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,746
    As a life long ES fan... ESO just isn't it. 

    In my opinion, you should never want to go back to play a previous iteration rather than the current one.  I'd rather play Oblivion, Morrowind, or Skyrim than play ESO.  There's no gravitas.  And I keep coming back to it hoping something will click.  Especially as they add more of the world. 

    I truly wanted Tamriel as opposed to what ESO is.
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 2,863
    Ikeda said:
    As a life long ES fan... ESO just isn't it. 

    In my opinion, you should never want to go back to play a previous iteration rather than the current one.  I'd rather play Oblivion, Morrowind, or Skyrim than play ESO.  There's no gravitas.  And I keep coming back to it hoping something will click.  Especially as they add more of the world. 

    I truly wanted Tamriel as opposed to what ESO is.
    An online fully ES game would be a boring shitshow I think.  
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 2,863
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    Tiller said:
    Scot said:
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago ..... 

    It is not just on this thread I have asked before: "Yes ESO has issues, but what other modern AAA MMO are you going to go to if not ESO?" Anyone would think we are gifted with huge range of quality modern AAA to choose from, we are not. ESO is a good AAA MMO, but if you have an alternative by all means speak up.
    I'd rather play other MMOs / games even if they are not AAA. There is a lot of choice. WoW, EQ 2, Guild Wars 1+2, SWTOR, LoTR:O etc. Even more out of MMO genre. And as I've been saying, ES:O is like Amstel of games. Thoroughly...tasteless for the most time. Almost no character lol.

    Well you have moved the goal posts, but lets look at that all the same. I am sure we can get to the truth here by comparing MMOs to beers/lagers:

    ESO is more like a Budweiser, not the most distinct offering to the palate, but cool, refreshing, not too heavy going and reliable.

    WoW is the Bud Light of MMOs, more casual, rather bland, you can get through an awful lot of it and feel you have not had much at all.

    EQ2 is the Abashiri, a colourful beer (possibly garish?) but one seen as lacking in many areas of taste due to its former vintage EQ.

    Guild Wars 2 is the Skol of the MMO world, low on alcohol, low on just about everything else, it to came from a better vintage, the first Guild Wars, so is all the more regrettable in comparison and leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth.

    SWTOR is the Corona of the MMO world, a well known beer with a storied past and coming from the distinctive dark and light casks.

    LotRo is the Heineken, now it was rather unfair to name this beer as over the years it has been my favourite MMO and is probably the best MMO in the world.


    Well there we have it, beer drinking has led us to truths that have never...hic...come to lite light before. Cheers! :D

    Yeah I disagree with that. GW2 is MMO isn't bad, but I know not everyone likes it. It is an easy game to play, like riding a bike. I can leave for 2 months, come back and pick it right back up were I left off. No confusion over skills or what they do, or where I am on the map. No need to always group to make it feel like I'm in an MMO, and  you can play with other people ungrouped without the long term commitment if you just don't have time due to character scaling and world scaling. You can jump in, play for one hour, jump back out. There are things I don't like about it, but it plays how they intended and have changed little since launch, other than enhancing some world events and making them harder.

    It may not be like GW1,  but it's set in the same world, which is the only point. The loot and rewards are fair, and while crafting isn't the best, you can make what you need easily enough. The community for the most part is talkative and helpful, but not as toxic as most games. If I find a mob that is too challenging for 1 person, almost always within 5 minutes someone else will randomly show up needing the same quest. The dynamic world events are really what makes the game in my opinion. I think people who hate GW2 just don't like dynamic events. If you do, then you will like the game.

    I honestly didn't think I would like GW2, but I find it's become my regular go to MMO because it's easy to play in short bursts without forgetting how to play or where to go to get what. I can log in, do some daily world events, get a bunch of loot, knock out a few achievements, log out and go about my day. So if anything I would say GW2 is the like the Corona of MMOs, you either love it or hate it, but in the end it's still poplar and rewarding for what it is.



    Glad to see we are really getting to the bottom of all this with the beer analogies. :)

    As you gathered of those mentioned I really dislike GW2, but rather liked the first GW.

    The thing is if we compare any MMO to a list of the top MMOs of all time it is going to be found wanting. Where I think Gorwe has a point is that ESO did not encapsulate its IP as much as the likes of LotRO or SWtOR. If you ask players do you feel this is the Eldur Scrolls world, I doubt as many would be as positive as they would about the other two.

    If think ESO got caught between making an online world and making a ES online world. The mix was not as good as it could have been. But still the best modern AAA out there, though admittedly in my eyes only somewhat better than the likes of SWL, but still only just is still the best.
    ESO just isn't for me then. I simply don't "get" it. And GW 2's such a disappointment, no?
    I've tried to get into GW2 so many times....maybe with GW3 they'll go more of the GW1 route and I will enjoy it more.  

    I feel like they went hard left with GW2 and (in like 10 years when it comes out) they might go more middle of the road with GW3.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,057
    edited April 2018
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    JeroKane said:
    eddieg50 said:
    Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?  

    Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
    I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
    The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards.  So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.

    The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion.  Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
    I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.

    The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.

    The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.

    Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.

    A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.

    The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is :)
    I tried to come back after One Tamriel, but couldn't do it.  My Templar was 50 already, but I never found a build I enjoyed with him, mostly due to the disparity between stamina builds and Magicka ones.

    I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference.  I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset.  Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.

    Still, GW2 uses the scaling system that's similar to Witcher in that it's one way.  It's fairly effective at enabling high-level players to continue to enjoy starter zone content without completely tailoring the world to the player.
    Could it be that you simply choose the wrong class?
    Personally, I had fun with my Dragon Knight, but I'm having an utter blast with my Nightblade, and keep in mind that I usually never enjoy rogue like classes in MMOs.

    But then, as an early GW2 fan, I find ESO to now (with one Tamriel) be the better game except maybe the GW2 dynamic events, but even then, ESO has awesome quest lines all over the place while for most other theme parkish games, it's one rare awesome quest among thousands of mundane tasks.
    MadFrenchie
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
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  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,134
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    JeroKane said:
    eddieg50 said:
    Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?  

    Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
    I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
    The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards.  So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.

    The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion.  Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
    I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.

    The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.

    The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.

    Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.

    A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.

    The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is :)
    I tried to come back after One Tamriel, but couldn't do it.  My Templar was 50 already, but I never found a build I enjoyed with him, mostly due to the disparity between stamina builds and Magicka ones.

    I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference.  I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset.  Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.

    Still, GW2 uses the scaling system that's similar to Witcher in that it's one way.  It's fairly effective at enabling high-level players to continue to enjoy starter zone content without completely tailoring the world to the player.
    Could it be that you simply choose the wrong class?
    Personally, I had fun with my Dragon Knight, but I'm having an utter blast with my Nightblade, and keep in mind that I usually never enjoy rogue like classes in MMOs.

    But then, as an early GW2 fan, I find ESO to now (with one Tamriel) be the better game except maybe the GW2 dynamic events, but even then, ESO has awesome quest lines all over the place while for most other theme parkish games, it's one rare awesome quest among thousands of mundane tasks.
    For me it was the opposite. I hated Nightblade, but switched to a Dragonknight/caster and it's actually not as bad. I think I felt it would play like GW2 thief, and it does not. I will see how it goes and mess with some builds a bit. Still up for giving this game a shot again, at least just for some easy solo PvE. I've played out all the content in GW2 for now, not many achievements I feel like messing with, so until they publish a new chapter there, I'll be trying ESO.


  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,994
    I get the same feeling with ESO as I get driving past a McDonalds; I see tons of people in it, but happily keep driving to find a place of higher sustenance.

    You stay sassy!

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,415
    Tiller said:
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    JeroKane said:
    eddieg50 said:
    Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?  

    Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
    I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
    The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards.  So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.

    The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion.  Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
    I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.

    The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.

    The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.

    Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.

    A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.

    The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is :)
    I tried to come back after One Tamriel, but couldn't do it.  My Templar was 50 already, but I never found a build I enjoyed with him, mostly due to the disparity between stamina builds and Magicka ones.

    I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference.  I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset.  Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.

    Still, GW2 uses the scaling system that's similar to Witcher in that it's one way.  It's fairly effective at enabling high-level players to continue to enjoy starter zone content without completely tailoring the world to the player.
    Could it be that you simply choose the wrong class?
    Personally, I had fun with my Dragon Knight, but I'm having an utter blast with my Nightblade, and keep in mind that I usually never enjoy rogue like classes in MMOs.

    But then, as an early GW2 fan, I find ESO to now (with one Tamriel) be the better game except maybe the GW2 dynamic events, but even then, ESO has awesome quest lines all over the place while for most other theme parkish games, it's one rare awesome quest among thousands of mundane tasks.
    For me it was the opposite. I hated Nightblade, but switched to a Dragonknight/caster and it's actually not as bad. I think I felt it would play like GW2 thief, and it does not. I will see how it goes and mess with some builds a bit. Still up for giving this game a shot again, at least just for some easy solo PvE. I've played out all the content in GW2 for now, not many achievements I feel like messing with, so until they publish a new chapter there, I'll be trying ESO.
    I can understand that, GW2 thief is one of the funnest classes ever made.
    ....
  • pantaropantaro Member RarePosts: 506
    Iselin said:
    Tiller said:
    TheAmir said:
    YashaX said:
    TheAmir said:
     Crafting is just OK, but at least you can make something useful for your lowbie character right away, unlike most MMOs. 
    Why is the crafting "just ok"? I have seen a few people say that in this thread, and am genuinely curious about why you have that impression. 
    Because I prefer crafting that's a bit more in-depth. Don't get me wrong, it's not BAD compared to most MMOs, but it could have been MUCH more interesting and involved.
    Like when you can create parts of an object, then sell those parts off to make it easier for the next guy to craft the full item? Crafting in ESO is like get iron-make steel ingot-turns into full suit of armor. Not always as simple as that, but you get the point. You have type, material, style and trait. It's mostly a skill builder. The amount of material variation and overall steps involved in crafting in ESO is minimal in comparison to many MMOs. I think the only challenge is getting the stat variation you want, but the overall act of crafting is not challenging at all.
    It's simple enough or I wouldn't bother with it. When the acts of crafting and gathering become complex and tedious jobs, I don't really want anything to do with it.

    What ESO does better than most is keep crafting relevant from level 1 to end game by keeping the crafted items competitive with the best drops. This will be even more so that way with the upcoming jewelry crafting.

    The crafting leveling is also subtle and something beginners sometimes take a while to figure out: it's not so much about what quality tier you can craft and what styles or traits you can apply to it. ESO has always been about gaining access to crafting sets that are only available after you have researched a specific number of traits for each slot.

    That's just something that is time and location gated but not rare mat gated which is what makes crafting desirable gear in most other MMOs a PITA. If you have researched all 9 traits for something in ESO you can then craft the most desirable sets using the same mats tier as you would use to craft the junk required for daily crafting writs.

    It's a system designed to work in conjunction with sets which is what gearing in ESO is all about. The mechanics are simplified but the end result, which should be what crafting is all about, are varied and rewarding.
    this is interesting to me because i was always under the impression that at launch they said crafting was supposed to be the way you described,but that slowly drops became better like in most themepark mmo's.

    I probably would be more likely to tolerate the things i dont like about ESO if what you say is actually true.




  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,040
    pantaro said:
    Iselin said:
    Tiller said:
    TheAmir said:
    YashaX said:
    TheAmir said:
     Crafting is just OK, but at least you can make something useful for your lowbie character right away, unlike most MMOs. 
    Why is the crafting "just ok"? I have seen a few people say that in this thread, and am genuinely curious about why you have that impression. 
    Because I prefer crafting that's a bit more in-depth. Don't get me wrong, it's not BAD compared to most MMOs, but it could have been MUCH more interesting and involved.
    Like when you can create parts of an object, then sell those parts off to make it easier for the next guy to craft the full item? Crafting in ESO is like get iron-make steel ingot-turns into full suit of armor. Not always as simple as that, but you get the point. You have type, material, style and trait. It's mostly a skill builder. The amount of material variation and overall steps involved in crafting in ESO is minimal in comparison to many MMOs. I think the only challenge is getting the stat variation you want, but the overall act of crafting is not challenging at all.
    It's simple enough or I wouldn't bother with it. When the acts of crafting and gathering become complex and tedious jobs, I don't really want anything to do with it.

    What ESO does better than most is keep crafting relevant from level 1 to end game by keeping the crafted items competitive with the best drops. This will be even more so that way with the upcoming jewelry crafting.

    The crafting leveling is also subtle and something beginners sometimes take a while to figure out: it's not so much about what quality tier you can craft and what styles or traits you can apply to it. ESO has always been about gaining access to crafting sets that are only available after you have researched a specific number of traits for each slot.

    That's just something that is time and location gated but not rare mat gated which is what makes crafting desirable gear in most other MMOs a PITA. If you have researched all 9 traits for something in ESO you can then craft the most desirable sets using the same mats tier as you would use to craft the junk required for daily crafting writs.

    It's a system designed to work in conjunction with sets which is what gearing in ESO is all about. The mechanics are simplified but the end result, which should be what crafting is all about, are varied and rewarding.
    this is interesting to me because i was always under the impression that at launch they said crafting was supposed to be the way you described,but that slowly drops became better like in most themepark mmo's.

    I probably would be more likely to tolerate the things i dont like about ESO if what you say is actually true.




    Some drops in some places have become BIS but many crafted sets form part of BIS meta builds... Julianos and Hundigs to name a couple.

    Some special dropped sets are also just that, special occasion. For example some of the stuff that drops in trials buffs only trial and instanced dungeon damage and the same goes for some Cyrodiil PVP sets only buffing damage against players.

    Jewelry crafting as well as 2HD counting as 2 set pieces will make it easier to work crafted sets into builds. Dropped sets currently have the advantage of also dropping jewelry but that advantage will disappear when we can craft our own that is part of sets.

    This is all post CP160 of course, when items become permanent. The huge increase of sets everywhere that drop like candy with One Tamriel together with the fact that you only get full benefit of gear if it's no lower than 5 levels below you, has made crafting while you level practically useless... that might be what you have heard and it's true.

    But at end game crafting is very relevant still which is the opposite compared to most other themeparks. 
    pantaro
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
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  • pantaropantaro Member RarePosts: 506
    Iselin said:
    pantaro said:
    Iselin said:
    Tiller said:
    TheAmir said:
    YashaX said:
    TheAmir said:
     Crafting is just OK, but at least you can make something useful for your lowbie character right away, unlike most MMOs. 
    Why is the crafting "just ok"? I have seen a few people say that in this thread, and am genuinely curious about why you have that impression. 
    Because I prefer crafting that's a bit more in-depth. Don't get me wrong, it's not BAD compared to most MMOs, but it could have been MUCH more interesting and involved.
    Like when you can create parts of an object, then sell those parts off to make it easier for the next guy to craft the full item? Crafting in ESO is like get iron-make steel ingot-turns into full suit of armor. Not always as simple as that, but you get the point. You have type, material, style and trait. It's mostly a skill builder. The amount of material variation and overall steps involved in crafting in ESO is minimal in comparison to many MMOs. I think the only challenge is getting the stat variation you want, but the overall act of crafting is not challenging at all.
    It's simple enough or I wouldn't bother with it. When the acts of crafting and gathering become complex and tedious jobs, I don't really want anything to do with it.

    What ESO does better than most is keep crafting relevant from level 1 to end game by keeping the crafted items competitive with the best drops. This will be even more so that way with the upcoming jewelry crafting.

    The crafting leveling is also subtle and something beginners sometimes take a while to figure out: it's not so much about what quality tier you can craft and what styles or traits you can apply to it. ESO has always been about gaining access to crafting sets that are only available after you have researched a specific number of traits for each slot.

    That's just something that is time and location gated but not rare mat gated which is what makes crafting desirable gear in most other MMOs a PITA. If you have researched all 9 traits for something in ESO you can then craft the most desirable sets using the same mats tier as you would use to craft the junk required for daily crafting writs.

    It's a system designed to work in conjunction with sets which is what gearing in ESO is all about. The mechanics are simplified but the end result, which should be what crafting is all about, are varied and rewarding.
    this is interesting to me because i was always under the impression that at launch they said crafting was supposed to be the way you described,but that slowly drops became better like in most themepark mmo's.

    I probably would be more likely to tolerate the things i dont like about ESO if what you say is actually true.




    Some drops in some places have become BIS but many crafted sets form part of BIS meta builds... Julianos and Hundigs to name a couple.

    Some special dropped sets are also just that, special occasion. For example some of the stuff that drops in trials buffs only trial and instanced dungeon damage and the same goes for some Cyrodiil PVP sets only buffing damage against players.

    Jewelry crafting as well as 2HD counting as 2 set pieces will make it easier to work crafted sets into builds. Dropped sets currently have the advantage of also dropping jewelry but that advantage will disappear when we can craft our own that is part of sets.

    This is all post CP160 of course, when items become permanent. The huge increase of sets everywhere that drop like candy with One Tamriel together with the fact that you only get full benefit of gear if it's no lower than 5 levels below you, has made crafting while you level practically useless... that might be what you have heard and it's true.

    But at end game crafting is very relevant still which is the opposite compared to most other themeparks. 
    Appreciate the clarification!
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