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How Crafting will differ in CoE, compared to more traditional MMOs

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  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    OrangeBoy said:

    To be honest, I'd rather buy a game then get AIDS from a disgruntled hooker


    i can understand why your experiences with hookers leave you under the impression that they are disgruntled people

    i highly recommend you dash down to the local bookstore and purchase a copy of:



    anyhows - let's get back on topic

    if you want to reignite the trollfest we had fun with on the CoE forums i'm all for it!!!!

    start a thread along the lines of "i don't know why an old man spent $10,000 to make his recruitment thread all about me" and we can pick up where we left off!

    i'll even be happy to throw in some of the old cartoons and stuff like teaching you how to use simple code to include an image in your replies :smiley:


    NeutralEvil
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,822
    WTF...
    OrangeBoyMendel

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    WTF...
    heh - CitusKid and meself have an amusing history from when he used to troll on the CoE Forums

    i'm all for revisiting it if he likes

    hopefully it's ok on these forums that if somebody trolls with a meme and ratchets things up and gets 'lols' from people, that others can respond in like manner, or am i mistaken?
    OrangeBoy
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 213
    I'm surprised what my one-liners make you do, keep it up doggy
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,210
    AnOldFart said:
    Gdemami said:
    That's an understatement.

    My opinion is that those systems will turn off far more than they will attract.

    I'll certainly keep an eye on the game from afar
    Pretty much.

    All sort of mini-games are deemed to end up as annoying after certain time. The more 'engaging' you make it, worse it will end.

    It is just bad idea...
    Not entirely convinced with this, I prefer crafting in MMORPGs, i always want to be the crafter with all the rare recipes.
    Unfortunately I have a quite extensive life outside of games and get very little time to play these days. So those that can grind through the mobs to pick up said recipes always beat me, and for them it's just a side to their mainly raiding gameplay.

    This allows me to out my precious time into my craft whilst allowing my character the ability to grind through the ores.

    Therefore because I will aim to master these mechanics in my precious gaming time I can become the best at my craft, and those who prefer "raiding" will not be able to beat me just because they have more time.
    ER, no, due to the 12 month or so limitation on all sparks your character ages even when you can't play much.

    Those who can play a lot will still crush you as they will probably raid and craft, and when the reset for you and them occurs they'll train faster.

    The only real advantage for you is it likely will be too annoying for anyone but the most hardcore crafters to stick with it so in the very long haul you will likely prevail. 

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    i think those that play a lot will, just like in most mmo's, have an advantage over those that have less available time to play in game

    the OPC mechanic is a double edged sword in my opinion - it will allow you to do 'chore' crafting when offline so that you can maximize your online time raising your skills - it will also allow for you to be vulnerable to theft, knockout, and in some cases, coup de gras

    a crafter might be wise to have his crafting stations located in a player made dungeon as explained in: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/1365/DJ-15-PlayerCreated-Dungeons
    Kyleran
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,440
    i think those that play a lot will, just like in most mmo's, have an advantage over those that have less available time to play in game

    the OPC mechanic is a double edged sword in my opinion - it will allow you to do 'chore' crafting when offline so that you can maximize your online time raising your skills - it will also allow for you to be vulnerable to theft, knockout, and in some cases, coup de gras

    a crafter might be wise to have his crafting stations located in a player made dungeon as explained in: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/1365/DJ-15-PlayerCreated-Dungeons
    Why are you only vulnerable to coup de gras "in some cases"? Aren't you always vulnerable to being coup de gras or did I miss something?
    --------------------------------------------
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    Why are you only vulnerable to coup de gras "in some cases"? Aren't you always vulnerable to being coup de gras or did I miss something?
    you are always vulnerable to coup de gras, however in order to be coup de gras'd you need to be knocked out first

    being knocked out allows for your body, home etc to be looted, which in my opinion will be the end goal of many thieves 

    if they coup de gras you they in turn stand to lose more of their spark of life if/when they get caught, without really having gained anything - so i would imagine many will knockout, loot, move on to next target

    now there will always be the type that will coup de gras just for shits and giggles, or for bragging rights as to who has the highest bounty on their head etc

    one of my alts is going to have pickpocketing, sneak, lockpicking, disguise, forgery skills etc and my decision whether to just knock out a victim and loot them, or coup de gras might be situational, might be determined by what mood i am in at the time etc
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Why are you only vulnerable to coup de gras "in some cases"? Aren't you always vulnerable to being coup de gras or did I miss something?
    you are always vulnerable to coup de gras, however in order to be coup de gras'd you need to be knocked out first

    being knocked out allows for your body, home etc to be looted, which in my opinion will be the end goal of many thieves 

    if they coup de gras you they in turn stand to lose more of their spark of life if/when they get caught, without really having gained anything - so i would imagine many will knockout, loot, move on to next target

    now there will always be the type that will coup de gras just for shits and giggles, or for bragging rights as to who has the highest bounty on their head etc

    one of my alts is going to have pickpocketing, sneak, lockpicking, disguise, forgery skills etc and my decision whether to just knock out a victim and loot them, or coup de gras might be situational, might be determined by what mood i am in at the time etc
    Now what's to stop faction/guild/kingdom wars from turning into a game of who's willing to swipe the most?  Coups shorten the lifetime of the spark, which is a real money cost to players.  That will naturally become the most effective way to take on another player or group and eradicate them; anything less merely costs them in-game resources.  Only the coup costs the enemy real cash.

    The vibe I'm getting is that the community and devs seem to be ignoring the fact that they're community will expand a lot once the game hits a stable release state, and not everyone will be on the game to participate in the world stories and follow pkayer-made rules like the ideal currently plans.  Some will absolutely make it their mission to exploit any mechanic possible to destroy or interrupt others' sessions.  Likely, whole swathes of folks will pool their resources to do this

    image
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,607
    Putting aside the personal attacks and completely needless banter, I've decided for now.  CoE *might* make it (despite my doubts), but it really won't have crafting that is any different than traditional MMORPGs.  The most recent information leaking out of the development team convinces me that this process is going to end up very evocative of EQ2, only with more steps, more crafting stations and less availability of 'recipes'.  The idea the crafting process requiring personal attention until learned sounds very much like another 'whack-a-mole' type mini-game.  One that once learned becomes optional.

    I can't (or won't) express my dislike for the concept of 'private recipes, not in polite society.  The entire concept of paying-to-develop, either specific artistic elements such as hairstyles or functional elements like military maneuvers/animations is inane to me.  Not only does it invite wallet warriors to build their ideas into the game regardless of their qualifications to do so, it is a process that seems very, very prone to abuse.  Imagine buying a special attack/animation that is 'better' than any other attack in the game.  Pay to Win?  Most definitely.

    This development team appears so keen on monetizing everything that I can't bring myself to trust that they won't sell anything they can think of when money gets tight.  Want your kingdom to be able to build nukes?  Sure, that'll be $$$$$$$, please.   I do not see these developers having the discipline to resist such temptations.  Sorry.  They (and their supporters) are quick to point out how much money they have 'collected', down to the dollar.  It is disturbing to me that no one is asking where this money is going, how it is being spent or showing actual work in progress.  (Even the obligatory 'Animations are crap' complaints would give some idea that something is actually occurring).  There's so few game elements being shown, even in horrific why-are-they-showing-this states that this game appears to be nothing more than a scam.

    At this stage, I've seen all I care to of CoE.  Thanks for the amusement and entertainment, but I just don't won't to expend any more of my dwindling energy in these discussions.




    Gdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,822
    Why are you only vulnerable to coup de gras "in some cases"? Aren't you always vulnerable to being coup de gras or did I miss something?
    you are always vulnerable to coup de gras, however in order to be coup de gras'd you need to be knocked out first

    being knocked out allows for your body, home etc to be looted, which in my opinion will be the end goal of many thieves 

    if they coup de gras you they in turn stand to lose more of their spark of life if/when they get caught, without really having gained anything - so i would imagine many will knockout, loot, move on to next target

    now there will always be the type that will coup de gras just for shits and giggles, or for bragging rights as to who has the highest bounty on their head etc

    one of my alts is going to have pickpocketing, sneak, lockpicking, disguise, forgery skills etc and my decision whether to just knock out a victim and loot them, or coup de gras might be situational, might be determined by what mood i am in at the time etc
    Can you loot crafter inventory by knocking them out?  For PvP I thought it was just what you were holding and to Fully Loot you needed to kill.

    Could be wrong...

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    edited April 2018
    Mendel said:

    I can't (or won't) express my dislike for the concept of 'private recipes, not in polite society.  The entire concept of paying-to-develop, either specific artistic elements such as hairstyles or functional elements like military maneuvers/animations is inane to me.  Not only does it invite wallet warriors to build their ideas into the game regardless of their qualifications to do so, it is a process that seems very, very prone to abuse.  Imagine buying a special attack/animation that is 'better' than any other attack in the game.  Pay to Win?  Most definitely.

    I just want to clarify something here. The Design Experiences were only available to Kickstarter backers. They haven't been included in the high tier packages for well over a year. In addition, they won't be brought back because of the expense to SBS when having a developer work one on one with a backer.
    NeutralEvil
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    Can you loot crafter inventory by knocking them out?  For PvP I thought it was just what you were holding and to Fully Loot you needed to kill.

    Could be wrong...
    nope - you could very well be right

    i recall caspian mentioning that there are two stages to looting like you say

    i thought it was if you knocked them out (which i think is meant to last about 2 r/l minutes) then you could loot whatever they were holding or had in their pouches/packs etc

    and if you wanted to take their armor etc you had to coup de gras them

    it might well be that a knockout just gives you access to what they were holding?

    all the more reason to keep your crafting stations in a well designed player built dungeon

  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    OrangeBoy said:
    I'm surprised what my one-liners make you do, keep it up doggy
    woof woof




    KyleranNeutralEvil
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    i think those that play a lot will, just like in most mmo's, have an advantage over those that have less available time to play in game

    ...
    Absolutely, that's an immutable law of MMO's !

    Then there's the advantage of having a large disposable income AND all day to play the game (most people prefer to ignore that combo, it's far too depressing to think about), which means you can have 16 accounts AND the time to play them all ! :D

    Of course, if you've also spent $10K+ on "advantages" before the game is even launched, then there's a fairly good chance that you're going to be one of the top rollers in that game...


  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    Absolutely, that's an immutable law of MMO's !

    Then there's the advantage of having a large disposable income AND all day to play the game (most people prefer to ignore that combo, it's far too depressing to think about), which means you can have 16 accounts AND the time to play them all ! :D

    Of course, if you've also spent $10K+ on "advantages" before the game is even launched, then there's a fairly good chance that you're going to be one of the top rollers in that game...


    yup - and it's why basically nothing is bound to account other than your surname and your coat of arms

    i think i shared a screenshot of caspian's response to some of the folks who have bought packages and were concerned about losing them quickly - caspian's words were along the lines of 'deal with it - no seriously, deal with it - i can basically guarantee that sooner or later everybody at some point is going to lose everuthing
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Dleatherus said:
    .. i can basically guarantee that sooner or later everybody at some point is going to lose everuthing
    SBS should start a betting pool on how many months after launch the last "KS King" will be murdered and have their kingdom overthrown ! :D

    It will probably raise more funds than the Cash Shop sales, lol
    NeutralEvil
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    SBS should start a betting pool on how many months after launch the last "KS King" will be murdered and have their kingdom overthrown ! :D

    It will probably raise more funds than the Cash Shop sales, lol
    rofl - personally i am ok with it, and accept the 'loss' of my kingdom as part of the cycle of power that happens in mmo sandboxes

    i do think that there is going to be a TON of butthurt from those that realize that whereas money might buy you a starting package and a title, it doesn't buy you the community building, diplomatic, economic and military skills to hold onto it

    am not going to name names but i do know of some counts and dukes across the servers who rather than looking at working on those important skillsets, are picking out what color of satin should be used for the drapes in their throneroom

    gonna be some salty tear rivers and lakes forming
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,822
    Absolutely, that's an immutable law of MMO's !

    Then there's the advantage of having a large disposable income AND all day to play the game (most people prefer to ignore that combo, it's far too depressing to think about), which means you can have 16 accounts AND the time to play them all ! :D

    Of course, if you've also spent $10K+ on "advantages" before the game is even launched, then there's a fairly good chance that you're going to be one of the top rollers in that game...


    yup - and it's why basically nothing is bound to account other than your surname and your coat of arms

    i think i shared a screenshot of caspian's response to some of the folks who have bought packages and were concerned about losing them quickly - caspian's words were along the lines of 'deal with it - no seriously, deal with it - i can basically guarantee that sooner or later everybody at some point is going to lose everuthing
    Sure... but I'd rather start the fight with a gun than a stick. 

    It's unlikely that you will lose ANYTHING to someone other than another high roller for years.


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    Sure... but I'd rather start the fight with a gun than a stick. 

    It's unlikely that you will lose ANYTHING to someone other than another high roller for years.


    yeah - i think it's safe to say that the logic is that it will be easier to capture a village than a town, a town than a city, a city than a county, a county than a duchy, a duchy than a kingdom

    by extension it means those that paid the most 'should' probably hold onto their lands the longest

    no assurance of that though - and if you are an incompetent/unpopular ruler and get knocked off, or have war or a cassus belli enacted upon you, your time as a titled landowner in the game might be relatively short
    NeutralEvil
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,210
    I am just curious if there are any other questions that folks would like to have asked? Of course, it isn't my show, nor is there a guarantee they would be asked. But it might give Dheatherus some ideas for the interview. 

    For me, I am curious what the process of skill advancement might look like in CoE. For example, when and what would the process of transitioning from apprenticeship to teaching to experimenting with new technology look like? *Hopes that makes sense*


    1. As previously stated- Can you buy recipes and techniques for cash after launch
    2. If people "discover" something that you haven't put in the game yet, what will happen? (regarding this quote: the idea is that through research you can "inform" us of the new content we need to create, sorta. )
    3. What skills are planned to have this system?  Is it all crafting?
    4. Will all those planned be implemented at launch or will there be placeholder systems?
    5. How will the gathering be balanced against the crafting?  Typical gatherers grab tons of stuff (ie, the wagon/carts in the store) and then head back to town.  That level of resources seem to be far more than would be needed in most cases.  (It's been stated that no grinding will be needed and you can breakdown and reuse items).  How long would a wagon load of ore take a typical blacksmith to deplete?
    6. (edit to add) How long would it take a competent smith to craft a full set of plate armor from scratch? (assuming he met the basic knowledge requirement)
    7. Will the visual and audio clues account for those with disabilities such as color blindness or hearing loss?  ie: Will there be text related to the audio clues that those folks can use? 
    8. Will there be some fatigue factor to crafting?  
    9. Will crafting be multiplayer oriented.  By that I mean, can one person man the bellows of the forge while another holds the ore in the heat... etc... etc...  If so will the visual and audio clues be lenient enough to allow for latency?
    10. Will character stats affect crafting?  ex: If I am stronger would I get a bonus to smithing?
    11. Will these visual clues be tested in Minecraft Elyria?
    Clearly there is an opportunity for Soulbound to create a new backer upgrade tier.

    They can call it the "Curious George" Tier.

    ;)
    NeutralEvil

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,210
    Tekkon said:
    I loved the DJ. Not so much for the crafting, but for the info on how mining will work. When asking friends what role they want to play in a multiplayer evolving online world, not a few says blacksmith. They got to get their ore somewhere. 
    So your friends are more interested in becoming Miners? I know that is a passion of a couple of players I have in my group. Myself I would rather be a crafter, but crafters will always need gathers. heh
    I could see myself doing some mining but that crafting model is my worst nightmare. 

    But in all fairness, I loath all crafting, so making a "better" crafting mechanic is going totally in the wrong direction for my tastes 

    ;)
    SpottyGekkoJamesGoblinNeutralEvil

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,210
    These games are a joke...Are people seriously dumb enough to give $1500 for a video game that may never even launch? Might as well go get a hooker and at least enjoy a great time...Why are people blowing so much money on these questionalbe games?
    $1500 is chump change, the Kings paid $20K.

    Then they grabbed their ankles and said "thank you sir, may I have another?"


    JamesGoblinSlapshot1188DleatherusNeutralEvil

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    edited April 2018
    i'm not a huge fan of crafting myself, and grind up alts to be self-sufficient

    i kind of have an uneasy feeling because in essence they are my "security blanket" in that i can toon over and get/create anything i want anytime from them - i don't 'play' them - i 'use' them

    in essence they are convenience toons

    i'm trying not let my prejudice of not being able to have my own legion of legendary toons in each profession have me opposed to it

    i'd never want to put in the time or effort tbh when i have my combat and deviant skills to tend to

    however as i have said, the dedicated crafters in our sizable community are very excited about all the possibilities, the mechanics of both OPC and online

    i'm of the feeling that my 'inconvenience' is rightfully of zero consideration, if crafters get a system that they truly enjoy and is challenging and engaging for them
    NeutralEvil
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    @Kyleran the video gave me a good chuckle - ty!
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