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How Crafting will differ in CoE, compared to more traditional MMOs

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  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    edited April 2018
    For those of you that might have missed Dleatherus's stream with Snipehunter it can be found at the below link. I would also like to thank Dleatherus for incorporating some of the question and concerns from this thread into his show. :)


    Post edited by mystichaze on
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    Interesting comment today.  @Dleatherus can clarify if I caught it wrong but from what I understood the developer said that people who purchased certain packages would be given unique recipes or techniques which could NEVER be found or made in game unless shared by the person that bought it in the pre-game cash shop...

    Did I correctly catch that?


    i didn't take it that way - but it's easy for me to miss that whilst also focusing on the production of the stream etc

    i'll have to go back and look/listen to the stream 

    i do know that people researching AFTER launch might be the first to discover a new technique or recipe that would be unique until somebody else researched it, and the owner of the unique technique would be able to keep it secret, share it, or sell it

    i am also under the very firm impression that unique recipes and techniques bought in the EP store before game launch won't just simply appear in your inventory, but that you will in all likelihood need to go on a quest to learn how to use it etc, and that others might find it as well

    i'll listen to the replay of the livestream tomorrow and try get back to you on my take of what Snipehunter said regarding your comment - worth asking
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    Also... he clarified that the percentages are NOT hard coded.  It's what they ESTIMATE people's skills to be at.. but there is no "Highlander" concept where when you move up a notch someone else moves down.

    So everyone could attain all the levels if they put in the effort.  There could be far more than 1% "Legendary" smiths. 



    correct - am glad that got cleared up and am happy with the fact it's not a fixed 1%, just that it will be so hard to attain that they only anticipate (guesstimate?) that only 1% of the player base will attain that level of proficiency

    i think that sharing of knowledge amongst players could very well result in it being a much higher percentage than they think

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,227
    edited April 2018
    Interesting comment today.  @Dleatherus can clarify if I caught it wrong but from what I understood the developer said that people who purchased certain packages would be given unique recipes or techniques which could NEVER be found or made in game unless shared by the person that bought it in the pre-game cash shop...

    Did I correctly catch that?


    i didn't take it that way - but it's easy for me to miss that whilst also focusing on the production of the stream etc

    i'll have to go back and look/listen to the stream 

    i do know that people researching AFTER launch might be the first to discover a new technique or recipe that would be unique until somebody else researched it, and the owner of the unique technique would be able to keep it secret, share it, or sell it

    i am also under the very firm impression that unique recipes and techniques bought in the EP store before game launch won't just simply appear in your inventory, but that you will in all likelihood need to go on a quest to learn how to use it etc, and that others might find it as well

    i'll listen to the replay of the livestream tomorrow and try get back to you on my take of what Snipehunter said regarding your comment - worth asking
    Understood.  It's hard to get it all just listening... I expect it's much harder as a moderator.

    I found the clip.  You can listen to the preceding and trailing parts if you want but I think this is directly what I was referencing:

    https://clips.twitch.tv/DistinctTrustworthyBeanChefFrank

    PS: Why do you have to frame your questions to hide that they came from us over here?  Come on.... you knew where some of those questions came from but pointedly say things like  "I can't remember where I saw this but here is an interesting question..."



    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    edited April 2018

    PS: Why do you have to frame your questions to hide that they came from us over here?  Come on.... you knew where some of those questions came from but pointedly say things like  "I can't remember where I saw this but here is an interesting question..."

    Are you that ashamed of your interaction with the "negative twits" over here?



    i didn't reference ANYBODY or any group or site as to where the questions came from, if need be i'll go back and listen to that also - I did say that i got my questions from a number of people that messaged me directly, or that i saw on the forums (CoE) or that i had seen on various websites - this isn't the only site i visit

    if i was ashamed of my interaction here i wouldn't be using my CoE name would I?

    the bit of 'i can't remember where i saw this' was regarding the quote of 'find purchase or be taught' a recipe, and whether i saw it on the CoE discord or the CoE forums - it wasn't something that originated here on these forums, but was referenced from either the CoE forums or the CoE discord

    p,s, glad you got to watch it live
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,227
    Yes I missed the first maybe 12 minutes and then dropped at the end.  Was interesting!


    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    edited April 2018
    Interesting comment today.  @Dleatherus can clarify if I caught it wrong but from what I understood the developer said that people who purchased certain packages would be given unique recipes or techniques which could NEVER be found or made in game unless shared by the person that bought it in the pre-game cash shop...

    Did I correctly catch that?


    Part of the higher tier packages included a Development Experience where the Backer was able to work with a Developer to design one item, depending on their package. (example: hairstyle, tattoo, food, drink ext) With that item, they would also receive the recipe for it that they could share, teach or keep for themselves. It was that experience that Snipehunter was referring to in the stream. 

    It would be a one of a kind only because it was designed by the Backer who purchased that specific package. In addition, the custom items are restricted to the Devs approval so you wouldn't be able to go beyond the restraints of the game.

    So I think you might have misunderstood exactly what was meant. :)
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    edited April 2018
    Part of the higher tier packages included a Development Experience where the Backer was able to work with a Developer to design one item, depending on their package. (example: hairstyle, tattoo, food, drink ext) With that item, they would also receive the recipe for it that they could share, teach or keep for themselves. It was that experience that Snipehunter was referring to in the stream. 

    It would be a one of a kind only because it was designed by the Backer who purchased that specific package. In addition, the custom items are restricted to the Devs approval so you wouldn't be able to go beyond the restraints of the game.

    So I think you might have misunderstood exactly what was meant. :)
    ah - hadn't thought about the design experience ones - was thinking of the direct EP bought ones

    and so i'll share what i know on this from conversations i had with the devs regarding my own chats with them about 'unique design experiences'

    as part of my pledge package, i have the option to design a 'unique' fighting style

    i was intrigued by this and thought 'shit, if i design some kind of parkour style archery technique and teach it to a handful of my most trusted guys that i have been gaming with for years, we'll have our own special ops team in game that will rule!'

    when i chatted with the devs about this they very quickly shattered any illusions i might have about this

    they pointed out that the 'unique' part was that it was something they hadn't designed themselves

    they said it would take a while to learn in game through a lot of effort - specifically that there would be npc's spread around the entire starting continent, not just my kingdom, that would need to be visited and each would impart a particular move of the 'unique' style

    those very same NPC's would also impart that same knowledge to any player that came to them for training

    as the designer of the unique fighting style i would in all likelihood (they said they would confirm  it later once they got to work on design experiences) that i would get a journal that would start me off on my quests and give clues as to where the various NPC's were

    once all of the npc's had been visited and i had learned all the moves i would be considered a 'master' at that particular style

    they also said that if i lost the journal tough shit, whoever lost the journal better have made notes because the unique fighting style is NOT meant to be exclusive by any means to the person who designed it, and that regardless of whether i lost the journal, or became a master at the style, to be aware that in all likelihood i would be facing opponents who had mastered the exact same style, and that in now shape form or fashion did they want me under the impression that anything gained through packages was exclusive to a player regardless of pledge package level, with the exception of their family name, and their coat of arms

    i then asked about the palace design experience and they said it was too early to go into details, but to also be aware that a palace can be captured etc, and nothing is immune to being lost, and in fact quite the opposite, it is to be expected

    bottom line is i was given an education on what my interpretation of unique was vs. how they are applying 'unique' in the game, and that people who get 'unique' things get them to help seed the world with recipes, techniques and items etc as a thank you for pledging

    hope that helps

    it probably raises other questions and concerns as most of these things do - fuck there were so many more i wanted to ask in the livestream after Snipehunter answered a question, but we had agreed upon a 60 minute format so i didn't want to deep dive into one specific area at the expense of not addressing another at all

    personally i thought it was a great and informative interview (ok ok, so i'm a little biased here), and hope it answered many of the questions raised here, and just as equally look forward to us discussing the new questions that Snipehunter's answers inevitably will create




    mystichazeAnOldFart
  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    Wow, thanks Dleatherus, that is information that I wasn't fully aware of. Although considering my DE is just a hairstyle or Tattoo I wasn't really thinking about how it might impact my gameplay.

    Now you have me wondering if I am going to have to do some sort of quest to acquire the knowledge. If so that is awesome if I do.. :)
    Dleatherus
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342

    i'm hoping to see an economy along the lines of EVE Online 


    Not going to happen.

    EVE ecenomy is designed as a robust economical system, COE economy is designed as special snowflake pipe dream.

    COE crafting/economy designs suffer same issues any other commonly used system, thus it will perform like them as well.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,931
    Haha.. Sometime Slapshot you remind me of a bitter ex. No matter what SBS does, you always attempt to twist it into your negative outlook about them. Look, we get it, the game isn't for you and that is ok, but some of us are very excited about what SBS is trying to do. 

    Will this type of crafting be for everyone? No, as Dleatherus said it isn't something he wants to do in-game. But just as in real life we all have different interests and a more realistic crafting system is exciting for the demographic that enjoys this type of gameplay. For those that don't enjoy the system I am sure there will be plenty other things for them to do in the Game.  And well if they don't like the game at all well there are plenty of other Thempark, and Sandbox games out there to choose from. 
    Hell, this is a crafting system even Hattori Hanzo would call ridiculously over complicated "for a game."

    It just is and even if they have the talent to pull this off (which I strongly doubt)  they should not so it, just a bad idea all around.


    Mendel

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,931
    No, Mystichaze, you probably won't. People have said that CoE is pay-to-win because it has been possible to buy baronies, counties, duchies and kingdoms during Kickstarter, but I think we are going to find the responsibilities of nobility mean that we won't have time for things that common folk take for granted. I have purchased a Baron pack and am expecting that I'll be too busy running my barony to be able to master a crafting profession, or even be an adventurer.
    I totally agree. Taking on these positions means a lot of responsibility. In addition to the extra risk, they will be taking if they dare go out adventuring. I know one thing for certain I am not envious of those that took on the king/queen roles, it is far to much work for me to want to do. I think they are even starting to feel the pressure of their roles now before the game has even started. 
    Well, you could quit your day job and demand a monthly salary from your "loyal" subjects

    ;)
    Slapshot1188

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    Kyleran said:
    Haha.. Sometime Slapshot you remind me of a bitter ex. No matter what SBS does, you always attempt to twist it into your negative outlook about them. Look, we get it, the game isn't for you and that is ok, but some of us are very excited about what SBS is trying to do. 

    Will this type of crafting be for everyone? No, as Dleatherus said it isn't something he wants to do in-game. But just as in real life we all have different interests and a more realistic crafting system is exciting for the demographic that enjoys this type of gameplay. For those that don't enjoy the system I am sure there will be plenty other things for them to do in the Game.  And well if they don't like the game at all well there are plenty of other Thempark, and Sandbox games out there to choose from. 
    Hell, this is a crafting system even Hattori Hanzo would call ridiculously over complicated "for a game."

    It just is and even if they have the talent to pull this off (which I strongly doubt)  they should not so it, just a bad idea all around.


    As I stated in my post, this type of a crafting system, or game, in general, isn't going to be to everyone's taste and that is perfectly fine. We all enjoy different kinds of gameplay, which would explain why there is a wide variety of games out there to choose from. 

    If SBS is able to pull it off or not is unknown to all of us at this point, but I for one sure hope they do. :)
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 14,227
    edited April 2018
    Interesting comment today.  @Dleatherus can clarify if I caught it wrong but from what I understood the developer said that people who purchased certain packages would be given unique recipes or techniques which could NEVER be found or made in game unless shared by the person that bought it in the pre-game cash shop...

    Did I correctly catch that?


    Part of the higher tier packages included a Development Experience where the Backer was able to work with a Developer to design one item, depending on their package. (example: hairstyle, tattoo, food, drink ext) With that item, they would also receive the recipe for it that they could share, teach or keep for themselves. It was that experience that Snipehunter was referring to in the stream. 

    It would be a one of a kind only because it was designed by the Backer who purchased that specific package. In addition, the custom items are restricted to the Devs approval so you wouldn't be able to go beyond the restraints of the game.

    So I think you might have misunderstood exactly what was meant. :)
    No.. I went and rewatched.  I fully understand.  In the discussion about crafting and the cash shop (no recipes for sale after launch, just the 3 month head start) the dev specifically stated that if you bought one of these packages you would be the only person on any server who had this recipe and it was up to you to share it or not.  Now whether it’s a complex process as Dleatherus describes related to combat or not we do not know.  All we know is that he said these people got unique recipes that cannot be bought or found in game.   It’s up to the owner to share them or not.  He called it something like an awesome responsibility. So everything in my post was factual.  

    And actually I just went and checked.  I saw things like Full Suit Of Armor, Weapons, Shields...


    KyleranMendel

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 552
    Interesting comment today.  @Dleatherus can clarify if I caught it wrong but from what I understood the developer said that people who purchased certain packages would be given unique recipes or techniques which could NEVER be found or made in game unless shared by the person that bought it in the pre-game cash shop...

    Did I correctly catch that?


    Part of the higher tier packages included a Development Experience where the Backer was able to work with a Developer to design one item, depending on their package. (example: hairstyle, tattoo, food, drink ext) With that item, they would also receive the recipe for it that they could share, teach or keep for themselves. It was that experience that Snipehunter was referring to in the stream. 

    It would be a one of a kind only because it was designed by the Backer who purchased that specific package. In addition, the custom items are restricted to the Devs approval so you wouldn't be able to go beyond the restraints of the game.

    So I think you might have misunderstood exactly what was meant. :)
    No.. I went and rewatched.  I fully understand.  In the discussion about crafting and the cash shop (no recipes for sale after launch, just the 3 month head start) the dev specifically stated that if you bought one of these packages you would be the only person on any server who had this recipe and it was up to you to share it or not.  Now whether it’s a complex process as Dleatherus describes related to combat or not we do not know.  All we know is that he said these people got unique recipes that cannot be bought or found in game.   It’s up to the owner to share them or not.  He called it something like an awesome responsibility. So everything in my post was factual.  

    And actually I just went and checked.  I saw things like Full Suit Of Armor, Weapons, Shields...


    This was the only bit I saw before falling asleep and @Slapshot1188 is correct.
    Snipehunter definately said that those people with design experiences would be the only people to have that design.

    In fact if you look at the Kickstarter it was stated then that the design experience was unique.



    Wasn't hard to find this when I checked out what design experiences people were talking about.
    Kyleran
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    i would like to re-iterate again about exclusive patterns and recipes obtained as part of a pledge package

    it is 100% up to you whether you share your pattern or not

    it has also been confirmed that your exclusive pattern will be able to be at the very least researched  (in the example of the fighting style i gave earlier it can be learned from npc's)

    i am not sure if exclusive recipes for things like potions, food, weapons and armor can be purchased or taught in addition to being researched (something to find out for sure)

    i do know that the exclusive patterns will not be OP  - after finding out the limitations of the unique fighting style, in addition to the palace experience, i asked about the armor design one and asked if i could design a set of chameleon armor that after 15 seconds of standing still, blended the wearer into the background and in effect make him invisible, since stealth will be a mechanic in the game, invisibility won't - it was going to be invaluable to my behind-the-enemy-lines small group of friends and myself for when we log out and our OPC's are still logged in - laying down in a large dense forest would almost ensure you were still there when you logged back in - this was shot down immediately lol

    anyhows - let's say you design a potion of +10 stamina because +8 is the highest one available at start and you decide you are going to sit on the recipe and not let anybody else have it

    it is only a matter of time before somebody else discovers it during the process of researching stamina potions

    what you are doing is you are seeding that recipe into the world, be it by it being available to be learned, purchased or found

    there might be a relatively small window of time when you are the only one in possession of the knowledge of it
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,778
    Kyleran said:
    No, Mystichaze, you probably won't. People have said that CoE is pay-to-win because it has been possible to buy baronies, counties, duchies and kingdoms during Kickstarter, but I think we are going to find the responsibilities of nobility mean that we won't have time for things that common folk take for granted. I have purchased a Baron pack and am expecting that I'll be too busy running my barony to be able to master a crafting profession, or even be an adventurer.
    I totally agree. Taking on these positions means a lot of responsibility. In addition to the extra risk, they will be taking if they dare go out adventuring. I know one thing for certain I am not envious of those that took on the king/queen roles, it is far to much work for me to want to do. I think they are even starting to feel the pressure of their roles now before the game has even started. 
    Well, you could quit your day job and demand a monthly salary from your "loyal" subjects

    ;)
    More likely, I think the only time the King will be actively played is for ceremony.  The rest of the time, speak to the King's alts.

    So, if there is any form of taxation, I guess a King could really relax and roll in the cash while playing his alts.




    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    Mendel said:

    More likely, I think the only time the King will be actively played is for ceremony.  The rest of the time, speak to the King's alts.

    So, if there is any form of taxation, I guess a King could really relax and roll in the cash while playing his alts.


    i know of some folks that bought the monarch exclusively so that they could spend their entire time roleplaying being a monarch etc - they already have a community of courtiers, rules for conduct at court, protocols as to what the different ranks call each other etc

    erm - none of that is for me personally - i am going to be delegating as much of the responsibility of admin work that a monarch has to some trusted advisors, barricade my monarch into a room with plenty of food and drink for a r/l week, and as @Mendel says, be having fun on one of my alts

    can only speak for myself regarding taxes, but i've been 'ridiculously rich' in many mmo's - it does nothing for me anymore - taxes will be kept to the minimum needed to be able to build and maintain infrastructure on a kingdom level (ie kingdom sponsored university for research etc) and to have a reserve for emergencies, so that each duchy will have the maximum amount possible to reinvest into and develop their own communities
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 8,738
    edited April 2018
    These games are a joke...Are people seriously dumb enough to give $1500 for a video game that may never even launch? Might as well go get a hooker and at least enjoy a great time...Why are people blowing so much money on these questionalbe games?
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 213
    Well, here's to a better dev journal next month

    Image result for leonardo dicaprio fireworks gif
    Slapshot1188
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    These games are a joke...Are people seriously dumb enough to give $1500 for a video game that may never even launch? Might as well go get a hooker and at least enjoy a great time...Why are people blowing so much money on these questionalbe games?
    because some of us have spent enough time working hard so that we can afford to throw money at both video games and hookers, whilst others spend their time questioning the spending habits of total strangers instead of working their butts off to get to point where they can spend money on whatever they fancy also
    GdemamiAnOldFartmystichaze
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 213
    These games are a joke...Are people seriously dumb enough to give $1500 for a video game that may never even launch? Might as well go get a hooker and at least enjoy a great time...Why are people blowing so much money on these questionalbe games?
    To be honest, I'd rather buy a game then get AIDS from a disgruntled hooker

    Though, I question those that think being able to save enough for both is an accomplishment.
    NeutralEvil
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168


    and cheers right back at you CitrusKid!

    since this last dev journal was full of info about the crafting process that is in development, not concept stage, an even better one next month would be awesome!

    Sláinte!!!
    NeutralEvil
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 213


    and cheers right back at you CitrusKid!

    since this last dev journal was full of info about the crafting process that is in development, not concept stage, an even better one next month would be awesome!

    Sláinte!!!
    You seem to be in a bad mood, and I can't tell whether that's because you don't have CoE, the hooker, or both.

    NeutralEvil
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    OrangeBoy said:

    You seem to be in a bad mood, and I can't tell whether that's because you don't have CoE, the hooker, or both.

    you miss the mark as always junior :smiley:

    you tried the exact same  apprentice troll 101 tactic on me in the CoE forums - perhaps this image from back then will jog your memory:




    NeutralEvil
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