The game world is great and the gfx is also good..dayli dungeons and crafting..its decent..but when it comes to combat then you get extreme bored..sitting theer and pressing tap to switch between 2 combat skill setups..basicly you have 6 skills..1 is ultimate and another skill bar you will socket with a buff..so its down to 3-4 skill you cast or summon...zzzz cast 3 skills..switch and cast 3 skills..swicth and cast 3 skills...ooh and yes also try to skip the casting animation..that saves you 0.1 second pr cast and will increase ur dps and win rate...sounds lame ? i agree.
Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?
Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
Zamuro said: ... all ur stats are going down instead of up when leveling. thats the exact opposite of progression...
I suppose it's possible you somehow got a DK to max level and still somehow think that stats go down instead of up lol. But that's just assinnine and only possible if you keep wearing the same level 1 gear throughout.
Personally I have 12 CP 720+ (770 actually) characters some leveled before and some after 1T and every single one had their stats go up as they leveled. IDK what to tell you if yours didn't except that you fucked something up royally somewhere.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?
Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
ESO is another solo mmorpg where you can count on one hand the number of times you group, or the number of times you want to group. There is a certain way you have to play this game, and it is counter to all the other MMOs out there. Dont grab every quest. If you go into this game getting every quest, every questline, every skill line, you will burn out.
This is a game where every single NPC quest exists within 100 yards of that NPC. You will run into missing brothers, missing sisters, traitors, necromancers, people trying to become a king or queen....whatever story/quest you have done before in other games you will find here. And it all takes place 100 yards from where you are at. Go 100 yards in the opposite direction and you will find the same thing. There are no dungeons in this game that remind you of EQ. Nothing in this game takes longer than 7 minutes. This is like going to White Castle for dinner, but the silverware and plates are really nice to look at.
The Combat is line Neverwinter. If you like Neverwinter, you will like this game. If you did not like Neverwinter, you will hate this game. There is no middle ground.
The animations are fine. There are older games with better animations, there are newer games with worse animations.
Clothing DOES look painted on, not as bad as SWTOR, but it does look painted on. And here is the first thing you NEED to do about this game (if you play on PC). Download one of the reshade presets. If you are familiar with Skyrim ENBs, it is the same principle. ESO is a game that for some reason on vanilla looks totally washed out and devoid or any character. Plop in one of the hundres of reshades and you INSTANTLY take a crappy looking game and turn it into something beautiful.. Instantly. So much so that you will wonder why they went with the crappy, vanilla washed out look to begin with. If you do not believe me, youtube a few ESO reshades. They are not as good as the best Skyrim ones because of the texture quality of Skyrim mods....but they are must haves.
The Map? Again. Download an addon. There are lots of things to choose from. ESO went with the less is more option that Skyrim had. If you want map addons, there are plenty to choose from.
Minimap? Same thing. Download one. There are tons of great ones. I keep my stuff off, feels more like Skyrim. But if you want a detailed mini map that looks like it was part of the game design, there are options.
The stories are pretty good. Not Bioware good, but pretty good. Not as good as the LOTRO epic questline, but still pretty good. Each zone has a main story line that takes you through the entire zone. And along the way you get single quests and such. You can level to max level with one or two zones, so go where you want and do what you want. You don't need to get every quest, but this game uses the HERO engine which means it makes use of phasing (which is the only good thing that engine can do). There is some progression to the quests where phasing might make an area non KOS and such.
Voice acting is classic Bethesda voice acting. If you played the games, you know the voices. There is the Redguard go, that dark elf guy, that girl who does the Orc voice, the Guy who does the Orc voice. The Argonian who does the female Ghoul voice for the Fallout series, and the two male Argonian voices. And the male and female Khajit voices. You know them by now. Once upon a time, Bethesda used only a few voice actors. But since Skyrim, they have used a lot more. ESO is not up to Bioware standards when it comes to voice acting, but it's pretty darn good.
Game World looks bad? One word. Reshade. UI is bad? Get an Add On. The inventory menus are awful, really bad. An add on instantly fixes that. And, they are all allowed.
Look, no one wanted ESO. Go back to the very first time you heard there was an Elder Scrolls Online game and I can promise you that no one you knew was clamoring for an Elder Scrolls Online game. People scratched their heads when it was announced and for good reason. TES is all about single player freedom and add ons, while MMOs are about levels, invisible walls, and more what you cannot do than what you can do. So for that reason, the game gets a well deserved bad rap.
There is nothing in this game from a visual standpoint, game play standpoint, or design standpoint that Skyrim (with about 150 mods) does not do a thousand times better. This is all well known. ESO cannot compete with modded Skyrim. So you have to put that out of your mind. If you can, the game is pretty good. But if you are constantly comparing your ESO experience to modded Skyrim (and a lot of people do) you will not like this game.
ESO is another solo mmorpg where you can count on one hand the number of times you group, or the number of times you want to group. There is a certain way you have to play this game, and it is counter to all the other MMOs out there. Dont grab every quest. If you go into this game getting every quest, every questline, every skill line, you will burn out.
I group nearly every time I play, and I have never played an mmo by "grabbing every quest".
ESO is another solo mmorpg where you can count on one hand the number of times you group, or the number of times you want to group. There is a certain way you have to play this game, and it is counter to all the other MMOs out there. Dont grab every quest. If you go into this game getting every quest, every questline, every skill line, you will burn out.
I group nearly every time I play, and I have never played an mmo by "grabbing every quest".
Maybe he plays on console, since there it's much more solo oriented due to the lack of chat, since hardly anyone uses Voice chat. I have it turned off as I got tired of people having their mic open and listening to their heavy breathing and family/kids screaming in the background.
On PC, people tend the group a lot more easily. Since chat is much more accessible.
What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago .....
What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago .....
It is not just on this thread I have asked before: "Yes ESO has issues, but what other modern AAA MMO are you going to go to if not ESO?" Anyone would think we are gifted with huge range of quality modern AAA to choose from, we are not. ESO is a good AAA MMO, but if you have an alternative by all means speak up.
The Combat is line Neverwinter. If you like Neverwinter, you will like this game. If you did not like Neverwinter, you will hate this game. There is no middle ground.
The two games are vastly different in practically every aspect, including combat. In fact, you almost couldn't pick two games further apart and still be in the same genre.
Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?
I fail to see how level scaling takes away all the challenge. Also, you do realize Witcher 3 and Skyrim both use level scaling?
What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago .....
It is not just on this thread I have asked before: "Yes ESO has issues, but what other modern AAA MMO are you going to go to if not ESO?" Anyone would think we are gifted with huge range of quality modern AAA to choose from, we are not. ESO is a good AAA MMO, but if you have an alternative by all means speak up.
I'd rather play other MMOs / games even if they are not AAA. There is a lot of choice. WoW, EQ 2, Guild Wars 1+2, SWTOR, LoTR:O etc. Even more out of MMO genre. And as I've been saying, ES:O is like Amstel of games. Thoroughly...tasteless for the most time. Almost no character lol.
Well you have moved the goal posts, but lets look at that all the same. I am sure we can get to the truth here by comparing MMOs to beers/lagers:
ESO is more like a Budweiser, not the most distinct offering to the palate, but cool, refreshing, not too heavy going and reliable.
WoW is the Bud Light of MMOs, more casual, rather bland, you can get through an awful lot of it and feel you have not had much at all.
EQ2 is the Abashiri, a colourful beer (possibly garish?) but one seen as lacking in many areas of taste due to its former vintage EQ.
Guild Wars 2 is the Skol of the MMO world, low on alcohol, low on just about everything else, it to came from a better vintage, the first Guild Wars, so is all the more regrettable in comparison and leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth.
SWTOR is the Corona of the MMO world, a well known beer with a storied past and coming from the distinctive dark and light casks.
LotRo is the Heineken, now it was rather unfair to name this beer as over the years it has been my favourite MMO and is probably the best MMO in the world.
Well there we have it, beer drinking has led us to truths that have never...hic...come to lite light before. Cheers!
What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago .....
It is not just on this thread I have asked before: "Yes ESO has issues, but what other modern AAA MMO are you going to go to if not ESO?" Anyone would think we are gifted with huge range of quality modern AAA to choose from, we are not. ESO is a good AAA MMO, but if you have an alternative by all means speak up.
I'd rather play other MMOs / games even if they are not AAA. There is a lot of choice. WoW, EQ 2, Guild Wars 1+2, SWTOR, LoTR:O etc. Even more out of MMO genre. And as I've been saying, ES:O is like Amstel of games. Thoroughly...tasteless for the most time. Almost no character lol.
Well you have moved the goal posts, but lets look at that all the same. I am sure we can get to the truth here by comparing MMOs to beers/lagers:
ESO is more like a Budweiser, not the most distinct offering to the palate, but cool, refreshing, not too heavy going and reliable.
WoW is the Bud Light of MMOs, more casual, rather bland, you can get through an awful lot of it and feel you have not had much at all.
EQ2 is the Abashiri, a colourful beer (possibly garish?) but one seen as lacking in many areas of taste due to its former vintage EQ.
Guild Wars 2 is the Skol of the MMO world, low on alcohol, low on just about everything else, it to came from a better vintage, the first Guild Wars, so is all the more regrettable in comparison and leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth.
SWTOR is the Corona of the MMO world, a well known beer with a storied past and coming from the distinctive dark and light casks.
LotRo is the Heineken, now it was rather unfair to name this beer as over the years it has been my favourite MMO and is probably the best MMO in the world.
Well there we have it, beer drinking has led us to truths that have never...hic...come to lite light before. Cheers!
Yeah I disagree with that. GW2 is MMO isn't bad, but I know not everyone likes it. It is an easy game to play, like riding a bike. I can leave for 2 months, come back and pick it right back up were I left off. No confusion over skills or what they do, or where I am on the map. No need to always group to make it feel like I'm in an MMO, and you can play with other people ungrouped without the long term commitment if you just don't have time due to character scaling and world scaling. You can jump in, play for one hour, jump back out. There are things I don't like about it, but it plays how they intended and have changed little since launch, other than enhancing some world events and making them harder.
It may not be like GW1, but it's set in the same world, which is the only point. The loot and rewards are fair, and while crafting isn't the best, you can make what you need easily enough. The community for the most part is talkative and helpful, but not as toxic as most games. If I find a mob that is too challenging for 1 person, almost always within 5 minutes someone else will randomly show up needing the same quest. The dynamic world events are really what makes the game in my opinion. I think people who hate GW2 just don't like dynamic events. If you do, then you will like the game.
I honestly didn't think I would like GW2, but I find it's become my regular go to MMO because it's easy to play in short bursts without forgetting how to play or where to go to get what. I can log in, do some daily world events, get a bunch of loot, knock out a few achievements, log out and go about my day. So if anything I would say GW2 is the like the Corona of MMOs, you either love it or hate it, but in the end it's still poplar and rewarding for what it is.
You are correct on the ESO being the Budweiser. I don't drink it because it's a boring domestic that tastes watered down, takes too long to get any kind of a buzz, comes mostly in a can and is cheap. I don't understand the mass appeal of it, though I know people like it.
What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago .....
It is not just on this thread I have asked before: "Yes ESO has issues, but what other modern AAA MMO are you going to go to if not ESO?" Anyone would think we are gifted with huge range of quality modern AAA to choose from, we are not. ESO is a good AAA MMO, but if you have an alternative by all means speak up.
I'd rather play other MMOs / games even if they are not AAA. There is a lot of choice. WoW, EQ 2, Guild Wars 1+2, SWTOR, LoTR:O etc. Even more out of MMO genre. And as I've been saying, ES:O is like Amstel of games. Thoroughly...tasteless for the most time. Almost no character lol.
Well you have moved the goal posts, but lets look at that all the same. I am sure we can get to the truth here by comparing MMOs to beers/lagers:
ESO is more like a Budweiser, not the most distinct offering to the palate, but cool, refreshing, not too heavy going and reliable.
WoW is the Bud Light of MMOs, more casual, rather bland, you can get through an awful lot of it and feel you have not had much at all.
EQ2 is the Abashiri, a colourful beer (possibly garish?) but one seen as lacking in many areas of taste due to its former vintage EQ.
Guild Wars 2 is the Skol of the MMO world, low on alcohol, low on just about everything else, it to came from a better vintage, the first Guild Wars, so is all the more regrettable in comparison and leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth.
SWTOR is the Corona of the MMO world, a well known beer with a storied past and coming from the distinctive dark and light casks.
LotRo is the Heineken, now it was rather unfair to name this beer as over the years it has been my favourite MMO and is probably the best MMO in the world.
Well there we have it, beer drinking has led us to truths that have never...hic...come to lite light before. Cheers!
Yeah I disagree with that. GW2 is MMO isn't bad, but I know not everyone likes it. It is an easy game to play, like riding a bike. I can leave for 2 months, come back and pick it right back up were I left off. No confusion over skills or what they do, or where I am on the map. No need to always group to make it feel like I'm in an MMO, and you can play with other people ungrouped without the long term commitment if you just don't have time due to character scaling and world scaling. You can jump in, play for one hour, jump back out. There are things I don't like about it, but it plays how they intended and have changed little since launch, other than enhancing some world events and making them harder.
It may not be like GW1, but it's set in the same world, which is the only point. The loot and rewards are fair, and while crafting isn't the best, you can make what you need easily enough. The community for the most part is talkative and helpful, but not as toxic as most games. If I find a mob that is too challenging for 1 person, almost always within 5 minutes someone else will randomly show up needing the same quest. The dynamic world events are really what makes the game in my opinion. I think people who hate GW2 just don't like dynamic events. If you do, then you will like the game.
I honestly didn't think I would like GW2, but I find it's become my regular go to MMO because it's easy to play in short bursts without forgetting how to play or where to go to get what. I can log in, do some daily world events, get a bunch of loot, knock out a few achievements, log out and go about my day. So if anything I would say GW2 is the like the Corona of MMOs, you either love it or hate it, but in the end it's still poplar and rewarding for what it is.
Glad to see we are really getting to the bottom of all this with the beer analogies.
As you gathered of those mentioned I really dislike GW2, but rather liked the first GW.
The thing is if we compare any MMO to a list of the top MMOs of all time it is going to be found wanting. Where I think Gorwe has a point is that ESO did not encapsulate its IP as much as the likes of LotRO or SWtOR. If you ask players do you feel this is the Eldur Scrolls world, I doubt as many would be as positive as they would about the other two.
If think ESO got caught between making an online world and making a ES online world. The mix was not as good as it could have been. But still the best modern AAA out there, though admittedly in my eyes only somewhat better than the likes of SWL, but still only just is still the best.
Crafting is just OK, but at least you can make something useful for your lowbie character right away, unlike most MMOs.
Why is the crafting "just ok"? I have seen a few people say that in this thread, and am genuinely curious about why you have that impression.
Because I prefer crafting that's a bit more in-depth. Don't get me wrong, it's not BAD compared to most MMOs, but it could have been MUCH more interesting and involved.
Like when you can create parts of an object, then sell those parts off to make it easier for the next guy to craft the full item? Crafting in ESO is like get iron-make steel ingot-turns into full suit of armor. Not always as simple as that, but you get the point. You have type, material, style and trait. It's mostly a skill builder. The amount of material variation and overall steps involved in crafting in ESO is minimal in comparison to many MMOs. I think the only challenge is getting the stat variation you want, but the overall act of crafting is not challenging at all.
Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?
Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards. So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.
The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion. Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
Crafting is just OK, but at least you can make something useful for your lowbie character right away, unlike most MMOs.
Why is the crafting "just ok"? I have seen a few people say that in this thread, and am genuinely curious about why you have that impression.
Because I prefer crafting that's a bit more in-depth. Don't get me wrong, it's not BAD compared to most MMOs, but it could have been MUCH more interesting and involved.
Like when you can create parts of an object, then sell those parts off to make it easier for the next guy to craft the full item? Crafting in ESO is like get iron-make steel ingot-turns into full suit of armor. Not always as simple as that, but you get the point. You have type, material, style and trait. It's mostly a skill builder. The amount of material variation and overall steps involved in crafting in ESO is minimal in comparison to many MMOs. I think the only challenge is getting the stat variation you want, but the overall act of crafting is not challenging at all.
It's simple enough or I wouldn't bother with it. When the acts of crafting and gathering become complex and tedious jobs, I don't really want anything to do with it.
What ESO does better than most is keep crafting relevant from level 1 to end game by keeping the crafted items competitive with the best drops. This will be even more so that way with the upcoming jewelry crafting.
The crafting leveling is also subtle and something beginners sometimes take a while to figure out: it's not so much about what quality tier you can craft and what styles or traits you can apply to it. ESO has always been about gaining access to crafting sets that are only available after you have researched a specific number of traits for each slot.
That's just something that is time and location gated but not rare mat gated which is what makes crafting desirable gear in most other MMOs a PITA. If you have researched all 9 traits for something in ESO you can then craft the most desirable sets using the same mats tier as you would use to craft the junk required for daily crafting writs.
It's a system designed to work in conjunction with sets which is what gearing in ESO is all about. The mechanics are simplified but the end result, which should be what crafting is all about, are varied and rewarding.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?
Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards. So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.
The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion. Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.
The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.
The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.
Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.
A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.
The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
What you are missing from ESO ?! --> A good game !!! ..... i searched for so long, but there is no good game in it ... the fighting system ... in complete killed the game for me ... In Beta, at Release and 2 hours ago .....
It is not just on this thread I have asked before: "Yes ESO has issues, but what other modern AAA MMO are you going to go to if not ESO?" Anyone would think we are gifted with huge range of quality modern AAA to choose from, we are not. ESO is a good AAA MMO, but if you have an alternative by all means speak up.
I'd rather play other MMOs / games even if they are not AAA. There is a lot of choice. WoW, EQ 2, Guild Wars 1+2, SWTOR, LoTR:O etc. Even more out of MMO genre. And as I've been saying, ES:O is like Amstel of games. Thoroughly...tasteless for the most time. Almost no character lol.
Well you have moved the goal posts, but lets look at that all the same. I am sure we can get to the truth here by comparing MMOs to beers/lagers:
ESO is more like a Budweiser, not the most distinct offering to the palate, but cool, refreshing, not too heavy going and reliable.
WoW is the Bud Light of MMOs, more casual, rather bland, you can get through an awful lot of it and feel you have not had much at all.
EQ2 is the Abashiri, a colourful beer (possibly garish?) but one seen as lacking in many areas of taste due to its former vintage EQ.
Guild Wars 2 is the Skol of the MMO world, low on alcohol, low on just about everything else, it to came from a better vintage, the first Guild Wars, so is all the more regrettable in comparison and leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth.
SWTOR is the Corona of the MMO world, a well known beer with a storied past and coming from the distinctive dark and light casks.
LotRo is the Heineken, now it was rather unfair to name this beer as over the years it has been my favourite MMO and is probably the best MMO in the world.
Well there we have it, beer drinking has led us to truths that have never...hic...come to lite light before. Cheers!
Yeah I disagree with that. GW2 is MMO isn't bad, but I know not everyone likes it. It is an easy game to play, like riding a bike. I can leave for 2 months, come back and pick it right back up were I left off. No confusion over skills or what they do, or where I am on the map. No need to always group to make it feel like I'm in an MMO, and you can play with other people ungrouped without the long term commitment if you just don't have time due to character scaling and world scaling. You can jump in, play for one hour, jump back out. There are things I don't like about it, but it plays how they intended and have changed little since launch, other than enhancing some world events and making them harder.
It may not be like GW1, but it's set in the same world, which is the only point. The loot and rewards are fair, and while crafting isn't the best, you can make what you need easily enough. The community for the most part is talkative and helpful, but not as toxic as most games. If I find a mob that is too challenging for 1 person, almost always within 5 minutes someone else will randomly show up needing the same quest. The dynamic world events are really what makes the game in my opinion. I think people who hate GW2 just don't like dynamic events. If you do, then you will like the game.
I honestly didn't think I would like GW2, but I find it's become my regular go to MMO because it's easy to play in short bursts without forgetting how to play or where to go to get what. I can log in, do some daily world events, get a bunch of loot, knock out a few achievements, log out and go about my day. So if anything I would say GW2 is the like the Corona of MMOs, you either love it or hate it, but in the end it's still poplar and rewarding for what it is.
Glad to see we are really getting to the bottom of all this with the beer analogies.
As you gathered of those mentioned I really dislike GW2, but rather liked the first GW.
The thing is if we compare any MMO to a list of the top MMOs of all time it is going to be found wanting. Where I think Gorwe has a point is that ESO did not encapsulate its IP as much as the likes of LotRO or SWtOR. If you ask players do you feel this is the Eldur Scrolls world, I doubt as many would be as positive as they would about the other two.
If think ESO got caught between making an online world and making a ES online world. The mix was not as good as it could have been. But still the best modern AAA out there, though admittedly in my eyes only somewhat better than the likes of SWL, but still only just is still the best.
To be fair, like I said I want to like this game. Yes there are parts I don't like, I can say that about all games I play. None of what I listed is a total game killer for me believe it or not. I was honestly looking for ideas.
I can appreciate the quest delivery, but not always the quests (flashy ways to kill 10 rats) and less puzzles. Crafting is just a thing to do when you need it, not really something to make an ingame career out of, I get that. The animations and graphics aren't the best, ok it's an older Western game, not a huge deal.
I'm seriously wondering what it is that captivates people because maybe I'm not looking in the right places. I wish there were more dynamic large scale events in the base game, more interesting ways to train mounts, more puzzles and challenges in quests, fishing could also be a bit more interesting, though I know not everyone cares about that. It really kind of actually reminds me of a newer version of DDO, (minus puzzles) which wasn't great, but also wasn't terrible.
Just so you know I do not own Morrowind, only the base game, so I am
considering buying the Summerset expansion since Morrowind comes free
for pre-orders and I heard lots of great things about it. They are
definitely fair on cost of expansions and content, so I gotta give them
that.
Op you are correct. The combat is OK but could certainly be better, the stories are again OK but not nearly as good as SWTOR or Secret World or even STO. Level scaling really killed it for me, it took away all the challenge. Crafting again OK. PvP confusing and OK at best. Thus there is the problem, it is an OK game, it does not excell in any one area, at least SWTOR and SW excell in story telling. Why would I waste time playing an OK mmo when I can play an excellent single player game like Witcher series, Skyrim, even Kingdom Come?
Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
I do remember in both games having my ass handed to me by much higher level opponents so it must not be so extreme. Since Witcher lists the mob levels I know I've run into mobs that were 10 levels higher.
The Witcher doesn't scale mobs down, it only scales then upwards. So yes, an arrow is an arrow no matter if the mob is level 1 or 10, but an arrow from an elite Scoia'tael unit at level 20, for instance, would be far deadlier to you at level ten than the level 10 mob's arrow.
The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion. Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
I know you're not the one who started down the path of comparing ESO scaling to SP game scaling but in SP games it's a whole different kettle of fish where every thing is possible and it can be fine-tuned to provide the best solo experience you can dream up.
The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.
The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.
Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.
A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.
The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is
I tried to come back after One Tamriel, but couldn't do it. My Templar was 50 already, but I never found a build I enjoyed with him, mostly due to the disparity between stamina builds and Magicka ones.
I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference. I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset. Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.
Still, GW2 uses the scaling system that's similar to Witcher in that it's one way. It's fairly effective at enabling high-level players to continue to enjoy starter zone content without completely tailoring the world to the player.
To be fair, like I said I want to like this game. Yes there are parts I don't like, I can say that about all games I play. None of what I listed is a total game killer for me believe it or not. I was honestly looking for ideas.
I can appreciate the quest delivery, but not always the quests (flashy ways to kill 10 rats) and less puzzles. Crafting is just a thing to do when you need it, not really something to make an ingame career out of, I get that. The animations and graphics aren't the best, ok it's an older Western game, not a huge deal.
I'm seriously wondering what it is that captivates people because maybe I'm not looking in the right places. I wish there were more dynamic large scale events in the base game, more interesting ways to train mounts, more puzzles and challenges in quests, fishing could also be a bit more interesting, though I know not everyone cares about that. It really kind of actually reminds me of a newer version of DDO, (minus puzzles) which wasn't great, but also wasn't terrible.
Just so you know I do not own Morrowind, only the base game, so I am
considering buying the Summerset expansion since Morrowind comes free
for pre-orders and I heard lots of great things about it. They are
definitely fair on cost of expansions and content, so I gotta give them
that.
It's the whole package. It either works for you as a whole or it doesn't. It's a highly subjective thing. There are many things in ESO that could be better and I have seen done better in other games:
The casual group events in zones are a giant step backwards from what was done in GW2 or Rift as I have said many times.
Archeage and many others have done housing better
BDO mount capturing and breeding is infinitely better as is BDO fishing
...and so on.
And yet, I no longer play Rift nor GW2 except once in a blue moon and I only played BDO and Archage for a couple of months each. Why? I'm not even going to try to rationalize it because I'd just be cherry picking petty personal annoyances when the truth is that the whole package just din't do it for me in the end.
There could be another MMO I try in the future that as a whole makes me want to play that instead of ESO and that's just what I will do then. But I doubt I'll be doing that for any 1 or 2 details: it'll be because the game as a whole is just more fun for me.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference. I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset. Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.
I understand what you're saying about the mobs you can't handle while low level but then you can when higher. That gives the world a sense of some places being more dangerous than others - I like that too.
But that is something that can be done well or poorly and it's not entirely missing in ESO.
To me a rat is just a frigging rat. I don't want level 5 rats and level 40 rats and so on. That's just re-purposed asset cheese which is exactly what many MMOs do with rats or bears or bandits.
ESO has zone bosses and some zones and places that are just plain tougher than others. The whole Craglorn Zone is like that and will demolish a low level character in seconds - heck even high level characters merely have a fighting chance in some parts of that zone. Same with zone bosses that you might be able to solo when you're high level (if you know what you're doing) but will swat any low level player aside. Challenges are there but not as formalized and guided as in zone progression MMOs.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
They need to Reamp the whole combat system
Tell me, how is it going in The Witcher and Skyrim, which also have level scaling lol! /shrug
Personally I have 12 CP 720+ (770 actually) characters some leveled before and some after 1T and every single one had their stats go up as they leveled. IDK what to tell you if yours didn't except that you fucked something up royally somewhere.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This is a game where every single NPC quest exists within 100 yards of that NPC. You will run into missing brothers, missing sisters, traitors, necromancers, people trying to become a king or queen....whatever story/quest you have done before in other games you will find here. And it all takes place 100 yards from where you are at. Go 100 yards in the opposite direction and you will find the same thing. There are no dungeons in this game that remind you of EQ. Nothing in this game takes longer than 7 minutes. This is like going to White Castle for dinner, but the silverware and plates are really nice to look at.
The Combat is line Neverwinter. If you like Neverwinter, you will like this game. If you did not like Neverwinter, you will hate this game. There is no middle ground.
The animations are fine. There are older games with better animations, there are newer games with worse animations.
Clothing DOES look painted on, not as bad as SWTOR, but it does look painted on. And here is the first thing you NEED to do about this game (if you play on PC). Download one of the reshade presets. If you are familiar with Skyrim ENBs, it is the same principle. ESO is a game that for some reason on vanilla looks totally washed out and devoid or any character. Plop in one of the hundres of reshades and you INSTANTLY take a crappy looking game and turn it into something beautiful.. Instantly. So much so that you will wonder why they went with the crappy, vanilla washed out look to begin with. If you do not believe me, youtube a few ESO reshades. They are not as good as the best Skyrim ones because of the texture quality of Skyrim mods....but they are must haves.
The Map? Again. Download an addon. There are lots of things to choose from. ESO went with the less is more option that Skyrim had. If you want map addons, there are plenty to choose from.
Minimap? Same thing. Download one. There are tons of great ones. I keep my stuff off, feels more like Skyrim. But if you want a detailed mini map that looks like it was part of the game design, there are options.
The stories are pretty good. Not Bioware good, but pretty good. Not as good as the LOTRO epic questline, but still pretty good. Each zone has a main story line that takes you through the entire zone. And along the way you get single quests and such. You can level to max level with one or two zones, so go where you want and do what you want. You don't need to get every quest, but this game uses the HERO engine which means it makes use of phasing (which is the only good thing that engine can do). There is some progression to the quests where phasing might make an area non KOS and such.
Voice acting is classic Bethesda voice acting. If you played the games, you know the voices. There is the Redguard go, that dark elf guy, that girl who does the Orc voice, the Guy who does the Orc voice. The Argonian who does the female Ghoul voice for the Fallout series, and the two male Argonian voices. And the male and female Khajit voices. You know them by now. Once upon a time, Bethesda used only a few voice actors. But since Skyrim, they have used a lot more. ESO is not up to Bioware standards when it comes to voice acting, but it's pretty darn good.
Game World looks bad? One word. Reshade. UI is bad? Get an Add On. The inventory menus are awful, really bad. An add on instantly fixes that. And, they are all allowed.
Look, no one wanted ESO. Go back to the very first time you heard there was an Elder Scrolls Online game and I can promise you that no one you knew was clamoring for an Elder Scrolls Online game. People scratched their heads when it was announced and for good reason. TES is all about single player freedom and add ons, while MMOs are about levels, invisible walls, and more what you cannot do than what you can do. So for that reason, the game gets a well deserved bad rap.
There is nothing in this game from a visual standpoint, game play standpoint, or design standpoint that Skyrim (with about 150 mods) does not do a thousand times better. This is all well known. ESO cannot compete with modded Skyrim. So you have to put that out of your mind. If you can, the game is pretty good. But if you are constantly comparing your ESO experience to modded Skyrim (and a lot of people do) you will not like this game.
Maybe he plays on console, since there it's much more solo oriented due to the lack of chat, since hardly anyone uses Voice chat. I have it turned off as I got tired of people having their mic open and listening to their heavy breathing and family/kids screaming in the background.
On PC, people tend the group a lot more easily. Since chat is much more accessible.
Well you have moved the goal posts, but lets look at that all the same. I am sure we can get to the truth here by comparing MMOs to beers/lagers:
ESO is more like a Budweiser, not the most distinct offering to the palate, but cool, refreshing, not too heavy going and reliable.
WoW is the Bud Light of MMOs, more casual, rather bland, you can get through an awful lot of it and feel you have not had much at all.
EQ2 is the Abashiri, a colourful beer (possibly garish?) but one seen as lacking in many areas of taste due to its former vintage EQ.
Guild Wars 2 is the Skol of the MMO world, low on alcohol, low on just about everything else, it to came from a better vintage, the first Guild Wars, so is all the more regrettable in comparison and leaves a rather bad taste in the mouth.
SWTOR is the Corona of the MMO world, a well known beer with a storied past and coming from the distinctive dark and light casks.
LotRo is the Heineken, now it was rather unfair to name this beer as over the years it has been my favourite MMO and is probably the best MMO in the world.
Well there we have it, beer drinking has led us to truths that have never...hic...come to lite light before. Cheers!
It may not be like GW1, but it's set in the same world, which is the only point. The loot and rewards are fair, and while crafting isn't the best, you can make what you need easily enough. The community for the most part is talkative and helpful, but not as toxic as most games. If I find a mob that is too challenging for 1 person, almost always within 5 minutes someone else will randomly show up needing the same quest. The dynamic world events are really what makes the game in my opinion. I think people who hate GW2 just don't like dynamic events. If you do, then you will like the game.
I honestly didn't think I would like GW2, but I find it's become my regular go to MMO because it's easy to play in short bursts without forgetting how to play or where to go to get what. I can log in, do some daily world events, get a bunch of loot, knock out a few achievements, log out and go about my day. So if anything I would say GW2 is the like the Corona of MMOs, you either love it or hate it, but in the end it's still poplar and rewarding for what it is.
You are correct on the ESO being the Budweiser. I don't drink it because it's a boring domestic that tastes watered down, takes too long to get any kind of a buzz, comes mostly in a can and is cheap. I don't understand the mass appeal of it, though I know people like it.
Glad to see we are really getting to the bottom of all this with the beer analogies.
As you gathered of those mentioned I really dislike GW2, but rather liked the first GW.
The thing is if we compare any MMO to a list of the top MMOs of all time it is going to be found wanting. Where I think Gorwe has a point is that ESO did not encapsulate its IP as much as the likes of LotRO or SWtOR. If you ask players do you feel this is the Eldur Scrolls world, I doubt as many would be as positive as they would about the other two.
If think ESO got caught between making an online world and making a ES online world. The mix was not as good as it could have been. But still the best modern AAA out there, though admittedly in my eyes only somewhat better than the likes of SWL, but still only just is still the best.
The Witcher's system is pinnacle in my opinion. Still leaves a lot of the world as a dangerous place to travel unless you take time to prepare and grow more powerful, but it never lets you feel as if traveling the same path means you're invincible.
What ESO does better than most is keep crafting relevant from level 1 to end game by keeping the crafted items competitive with the best drops. This will be even more so that way with the upcoming jewelry crafting.
The crafting leveling is also subtle and something beginners sometimes take a while to figure out: it's not so much about what quality tier you can craft and what styles or traits you can apply to it. ESO has always been about gaining access to crafting sets that are only available after you have researched a specific number of traits for each slot.
That's just something that is time and location gated but not rare mat gated which is what makes crafting desirable gear in most other MMOs a PITA. If you have researched all 9 traits for something in ESO you can then craft the most desirable sets using the same mats tier as you would use to craft the junk required for daily crafting writs.
It's a system designed to work in conjunction with sets which is what gearing in ESO is all about. The mechanics are simplified but the end result, which should be what crafting is all about, are varied and rewarding.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The purpose of scaling in multiplayer games is quite different: it's all about enabling players of any level to fight together, casually or formally, and have a relevant impact on the fight. And you need to do it while maintaining the progressive self improvement illusion.
The typical complaint in ESO, especially from those who are either new or just not aware of how you're supposed to improve in ESO is all about that self improvement part - you don't hear much bitching about the play together bit.
Character improvement in ESO has always been about gaining access to better abilities that take time to unlock as well as the usual gear grind for gear sets that are harder to get or can only be crafted after you've put in the time to unlock crafting for those sets. And then there is the Champion Point Passive system where 1 or 2 points do almost nothing to make you better but 600 of them make a huge difference.
A level 10 new player may be able to contribute to a fight alongside a CP720 one and their base stats may even be not far off, but that CP720 player will be virtually carrying the level 10 guy through the fight by virtue of their superior abilities they have access to, better gear and all the CP passives they have stacked.
The system actually works very well at doing both: letting 2 players of any level fight together AND letting you progress as you level in a noticeable way... for those that are paying attention that is
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I can appreciate the quest delivery, but not always the quests (flashy ways to kill 10 rats) and less puzzles. Crafting is just a thing to do when you need it, not really something to make an ingame career out of, I get that. The animations and graphics aren't the best, ok it's an older Western game, not a huge deal.
I'm seriously wondering what it is that captivates people because maybe I'm not looking in the right places. I wish there were more dynamic large scale events in the base game, more interesting ways to train mounts, more puzzles and challenges in quests, fishing could also be a bit more interesting, though I know not everyone cares about that. It really kind of actually reminds me of a newer version of DDO, (minus puzzles) which wasn't great, but also wasn't terrible.
Just so you know I do not own Morrowind, only the base game, so I am considering buying the Summerset expansion since Morrowind comes free for pre-orders and I heard lots of great things about it. They are definitely fair on cost of expansions and content, so I gotta give them that.
I get what you're saying about the scaling, but to me it's more a personal preference. I absolutely like the idea of growing to meet a challenge that's impossible at the onset. Scaling players up or content down is detrimental to that effect, which is why it's not my cup of tea.
Still, GW2 uses the scaling system that's similar to Witcher in that it's one way. It's fairly effective at enabling high-level players to continue to enjoy starter zone content without completely tailoring the world to the player.
And yet, I no longer play Rift nor GW2 except once in a blue moon and I only played BDO and Archage for a couple of months each. Why? I'm not even going to try to rationalize it because I'd just be cherry picking petty personal annoyances when the truth is that the whole package just din't do it for me in the end.
There could be another MMO I try in the future that as a whole makes me want to play that instead of ESO and that's just what I will do then. But I doubt I'll be doing that for any 1 or 2 details: it'll be because the game as a whole is just more fun for me.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
But that is something that can be done well or poorly and it's not entirely missing in ESO.
To me a rat is just a frigging rat. I don't want level 5 rats and level 40 rats and so on. That's just re-purposed asset cheese which is exactly what many MMOs do with rats or bears or bandits.
ESO has zone bosses and some zones and places that are just plain tougher than others. The whole Craglorn Zone is like that and will demolish a low level character in seconds - heck even high level characters merely have a fighting chance in some parts of that zone. Same with zone bosses that you might be able to solo when you're high level (if you know what you're doing) but will swat any low level player aside. Challenges are there but not as formalized and guided as in zone progression MMOs.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED