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What Character options do you think are missing from most MMORPGs?

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Answers

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,302
    Po_gg said:
    Loke666 said:
    Personally, I would put a bit more focused on none combat skill. Anything from detecting traps, picking locks or haggle for the best price in a store. Combat is an important part of MMORPGs but when it becomes the only part we are losing the RPG part.
    Not even an important part, at least that's what I used to babble about (to the extent of sounding like a broken record). Combat never was a core part of roleplay (good roleplay, I must add. You could notice a weak GM from the over-usage of combat encounters), and its larger focus was simply a necessity in early crpg.

    Combat is only dominant because of the vast gamers of today are not roleplayers, and they don't want anything besides cheap action. Even if some games try to add the non-combat elements it gets usually shunned down - except if the community is of a higher "quality" roleplay-wise, like LoTRO's music system for example.

    Neverwinter tried trap detection and lock picking, it was pretty fun at start, but now you can ignore/negate it even through gear... if your playerbase doesn't care about a feature, as a dev you will ignore it after a while too.

    Scot said:
    Anything vaguely roleplaying, from a detailed bio to a language only others of your own race can understand in chat.
    The same as above. It was already done 20 years ago in MUDs and MUSHes, and worked great. Different languages, and if someone (player or NPC) said something on language X and you haven't learned that language yet, you just saw some scrambled gibberish. There was a MUSH where the language skills weren't even a "toggle" but had several stages, so in the example above, with beginner level of X you understood parts of his speech (the more basic words) and only the rest was scrambled.

    Sure, it is much easier to implement it in a text-based environment, currently with most things voiced it would require much more resources and work.

    But let's be honest, besides a couple niche playerbases (like LotRO, where players still used to have conversations in one of Tolkien's languages) the majority of today's gamers would see it as a boring annoyance. Combat doesn't need languages anyways...

    Yes I do know that's been done before, that's why I brought those up. :)

    You are right about why we rarely see anything like that anymore, the priorities for MMOs are:

    Graphics
    Graphics
    Graphics
    Cash shop
    Cash Shop
    Cash Shop
    Combat
    Gameplay
    (Community) - Not always even bothered with
    (Roleplaying) - Even less likely to be considered
    Steelhelm

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  • DAOWAceDAOWAce Member UncommonPosts: 350
    Does being an NPC count?

    Because there's practically no games where you can live your life as an NPC, crafting and selling stuff in town.  Ragnarok Online is like the only game I can even remember to have a merchant class.
  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Member RarePosts: 1,985
    DAOWAce said:
    Does being an NPC count?

    Because there's practically no games where you can live your life as an NPC, crafting and selling stuff in town.  Ragnarok Online is like the only game I can even remember to have a merchant class.
    NPC isn't the right term to use for that.  Try non-combatant.  But in general if you want to encourage and recognize non-combat gameplay, having non-combat classes would be one of the worst possible ways to do that.
    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,364
    Witches are too often overlooked, imo. 
    Steelhelm

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Po_gg said:
    Loke666 said:
    Personally, I would put a bit more focused on none combat skill. Anything from detecting traps, picking locks or haggle for the best price in a store. Combat is an important part of MMORPGs but when it becomes the only part we are losing the RPG part.
    Not even an important part, at least that's what I used to babble about (to the extent of sounding like a broken record). Combat never was a core part of roleplay (good roleplay, I must add. You could notice a weak GM from the over-usage of combat encounters), and its larger focus was simply a necessity in early crpg.

    Combat is only dominant because of the vast gamers of today are not roleplayers, and they don't want anything besides cheap action. Even if some games try to add the non-combat elements it gets usually shunned down - except if the community is of a higher "quality" roleplay-wise, like LoTRO's music system for example.

    Neverwinter tried trap detection and lock picking, it was pretty fun at start, but now you can ignore/negate it even through gear... if your playerbase doesn't care about a feature, as a dev you will ignore it after a while too.
    Combat is a popular MMORPG feature and therefor is important. Yes, I think the games have too much of it as well. 

    Now, in pen and paper roleplaying it really depends on your campaign, in something like "Call of Cthulhu" combat is a lesser feature (that usually is lethal for the players except possibly against cultists). In an intrigue game it happens now and again but isn't the main focus of the game. In Shadowrun it is important but it often just happens if (or  when) the players screw up. In classic dungeoncrawl that is together with puzzels and traps a lot of the the important part.

    I never played a P&P game with as much combat focus as an average MMO though, nothing even near.

    I think DDO actually did a better job with traps and lockpicking, or Neverwinter nights for that matter. Neverwinters system just didn't work for me for some reason. However, skipping it (with gear) instead of improving it was not the wisest choice in my opinion.

    I think MMOs still can learn a lot from pen and paper roleplaying games.
    Scot
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,302
    edited April 2018
    Loke666 said:
    Po_gg said:
    Loke666 said:
    Personally, I would put a bit more focused on none combat skill. Anything from detecting traps, picking locks or haggle for the best price in a store. Combat is an important part of MMORPGs but when it becomes the only part we are losing the RPG part.
    Not even an important part, at least that's what I used to babble about (to the extent of sounding like a broken record). Combat never was a core part of roleplay (good roleplay, I must add. You could notice a weak GM from the over-usage of combat encounters), and its larger focus was simply a necessity in early crpg.

    Combat is only dominant because of the vast gamers of today are not roleplayers, and they don't want anything besides cheap action. Even if some games try to add the non-combat elements it gets usually shunned down - except if the community is of a higher "quality" roleplay-wise, like LoTRO's music system for example.

    Neverwinter tried trap detection and lock picking, it was pretty fun at start, but now you can ignore/negate it even through gear... if your playerbase doesn't care about a feature, as a dev you will ignore it after a while too.
    Combat is a popular MMORPG feature and therefor is important. Yes, I think the games have too much of it as well. 

    Now, in pen and paper roleplaying it really depends on your campaign, in something like "Call of Cthulhu" combat is a lesser feature (that usually is lethal for the players except possibly against cultists). In an intrigue game it happens now and again but isn't the main focus of the game. In Shadowrun it is important but it often just happens if (or  when) the players screw up. In classic dungeoncrawl that is together with puzzels and traps a lot of the the important part.

    I never played a P&P game with as much combat focus as an average MMO though, nothing even near.

    I think DDO actually did a better job with traps and lockpicking, or Neverwinter nights for that matter. Neverwinters system just didn't work for me for some reason. However, skipping it (with gear) instead of improving it was not the wisest choice in my opinion.

    I think MMOs still can learn a lot from pen and paper roleplaying games.

    When we get proper AI so we can have in game GM's that's when we can have MMOs that are like table top. Until then roleplaying guilds get by with a player/s who moves the plot along of something they created usually with no tools to help them do so.

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  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,206
    edited April 2018
    Scot said:
    When we get proper AI so we can have in game GM's that's when we can have MMOs that are like table top. Until then roleplaying guilds get by with a player/s who moves the plot along of something they created usually with no tools to help them do so.
    Devs can help even before the AI gets here, Cryptic's Foundry for example. Give the tools to the players for making stories and plots, entire new areas even, with quests and NPCs.
    Loke666 said:
    I think DDO actually did a better job with traps and lockpicking, or Neverwinter nights for that matter. Neverwinters system just didn't work for me for some reason. However, skipping it (with gear) instead of improving it was not the wisest choice in my opinion.
    I agree, and only mentioned Neverwinter because that game is more action-y.
    Still, even into the action they could add those mechanics - that's an another question why the playerbase didn't like it.
    And yep, not the wisest solution just simply giving them set pieces which negates the trap effects...
    Scot
  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,894
    Your trusted ally slot.  

    For instance "that professor"/"trusted pilot"/"Deadpools taxi driver"/"repeating skilled character"/"The lawyer you always hire".   Basically someone important and trustable of your choice that interacts with your quest some how.   But aren't powerful enough to need to be a real player.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,302
    Po_gg said:
    Scot said:
    When we get proper AI so we can have in game GM's that's when we can have MMOs that are like table top. Until then roleplaying guilds get by with a player/s who moves the plot along of something they created usually with no tools to help them do so.
    Devs can help even before the AI gets here, Cryptic's Foundry for example. Give the tools to the players for making stories and plots, entire new areas even, with quests and NPCs.
    Loke666 said:
    I think DDO actually did a better job with traps and lockpicking, or Neverwinter nights for that matter. Neverwinters system just didn't work for me for some reason. However, skipping it (with gear) instead of improving it was not the wisest choice in my opinion.
    I agree, and only mentioned Neverwinter because that game is more action-y.
    Still, even into the action they could add those mechanics - that's an another question why the playerbase didn't like it.
    And yep, not the wisest solution just simply giving them set pieces which negates the trap effects...

    Cryptics foundry was one of the few tools I have seen in the last ten years that was helpful for roleplayers and it was possibly the best. If you go back to the days of AO, you were able to write script that was executable in game, used for creating guild inventories of items etc. I think it was AC(?) were you could write in a book and then leave that book in game for another player to pick up and read. Underlight had a progression systems linked to doing "quests" for senior players.

    We have lost so much players could use to roleplay, but hey the graphics have got better. ;)
    Amaranthar

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  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,176
    edited April 2018
    Scot said:
    Po_gg said:
    Scot said:
    When we get proper AI so we can have in game GM's that's when we can have MMOs that are like table top. Until then roleplaying guilds get by with a player/s who moves the plot along of something they created usually with no tools to help them do so.
    Devs can help even before the AI gets here, Cryptic's Foundry for example. Give the tools to the players for making stories and plots, entire new areas even, with quests and NPCs.
    Loke666 said:
    I think DDO actually did a better job with traps and lockpicking, or Neverwinter nights for that matter. Neverwinters system just didn't work for me for some reason. However, skipping it (with gear) instead of improving it was not the wisest choice in my opinion.
    I agree, and only mentioned Neverwinter because that game is more action-y.
    Still, even into the action they could add those mechanics - that's an another question why the playerbase didn't like it.
    And yep, not the wisest solution just simply giving them set pieces which negates the trap effects...

    Cryptics foundry was one of the few tools I have seen in the last ten years that was helpful for roleplayers and it was possibly the best. If you go back to the days of AO, you were able to write script that was executable in game, used for creating guild inventories of items etc. I think it was AC(?) were you could write in a book and then leave that book in game for another player to pick up and read. Underlight had a progression systems linked to doing "quests" for senior players.

    We have lost so much players could use to roleplay, but hey the graphics have got better. ;)
    Scot, that was UO where players could write books and leave them anywhere. On the ground, in bookcases, in chests, etc.

    Another thing with UO was "items on the ground", where players could drop anything on the ground.
    That meant you could take a small pouch, put something in it, and drop it behind a tree (or elsewhere that would be hard to find.
    And that meant you could leave things for following players to find.

    There was a lot of ways you could use that. Including spreading some "useless" things to mark locations. Like a single feather here and there. No one is likely to pick them up, since feathers were only worth it in bulk, and not much even at that.

    You could also dye things in UO. Usually clothing, but also the yarn.
    So colors could be used to mean something, as an indication to others.
    Of course, this was commonly used for guild uniforms, but it could also be used for secretive meanings.

    And houses had house signs that you could type name or short message on.
    Bulletin boards where you could leave messages. (Codes anyone? See: books)

    I had a secret guild, unofficial, where we used things like the above.
    Our "thing" was the secrets of UO.
    No one ever knew we existed. But things went south when UO had a big changeover in GMs and designers (and especially the designer who was in charge of such) and the whole secrets of UO thing went south.

    We discovered the story of the Black Necklace that Mondain's lover, Minax, wore during the siege of Trinsic, and initially came from the Liche Juo'Nar (a GM played event BOSS, like Minax). But never found the end of that because of the loss of the designer mentioned above. UO even ran an event that ended and sealed it, once it became known that we were on the trail that no longer had a future.

    Yes, so much has been lost. Some of it only a handful ever knew about.
    SteelhelmScot

    Once upon a time....

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Amathe said:
    Witches are too often overlooked, imo. 
    The option to dance around a fire in the altogether is overlooked in quite a few none asian games tbh  :p
    blueturtle13SteelhelmXarkoScot
  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    The ability to actually have a cool character.  The grunge look is definitely missing from modern MMOs and games.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,302

    Scot, that was UO where players could write books and leave them anywhere. On the ground, in bookcases, in chests, etc.

    Another thing with UO was "items on the ground", where players could drop anything on the ground.
    That meant you could take a small pouch, put something in it, and drop it behind a tree (or elsewhere that would be hard to find.
    And that meant you could leave things for following players to find.

    There was a lot of ways you could use that. Including spreading some "useless" things to mark locations. Like a single feather here and there. No one is likely to pick them up, since feathers were only worth it in bulk, and not much even at that.

    You could also dye things in UO. Usually clothing, but also the yarn.
    So colors could be used to mean something, as an indication to others.
    Of course, this was commonly used for guild uniforms, but it could also be used for secretive meanings.

    And houses had house signs that you could type name or short message on.
    Bulletin boards where you could leave messages. (Codes anyone? See: books)

    I had a secret guild, unofficial, where we used things like the above.
    Our "thing" was the secrets of UO.
    No one ever knew we existed. But things went south when UO had a big changeover in GMs and designers (and especially the designer who was in charge of such) and the whole secrets of UO thing went south.

    We discovered the story of the Black Necklace that Mondain's lover, Minax, wore during the siege of Trinsic, and initially came from the Liche Juo'Nar (a GM played event BOSS, like Minax). But never found the end of that because of the loss of the designer mentioned above. UO even ran an event that ended and sealed it, once it became known that we were on the trail that no longer had a future.

    Yes, so much has been lost. Some of it only a handful ever knew about.
    Though I played most of the old greats not playing UO is a lasting regret. Today we make the roleplaying happen against the odds rather than with the help of the MMO in question.

    Some things you just can't get around, I remember the guild realising that although Rift was hardly a small MMO there was no place that was not routinely visited by players on quests and certainly nowhere where a /say would not reach the ears of those outside the guild.

    You can end up feeling like you are a smoker or criminal, "not in here", "not in my town". :)

    But just make the best of it you can, you don't give up. That said I have not played a MMO for about six months now and its unlikely I will until the end of the year at this rate.

     25 Agrees

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,660
    I wanted to mention:

    Centaurs
    Minotaurs
    Guinea Pigs

    But then I remembered that I am playing Crowfall already.

    So Ratonga/Skaven aka rat people, gotta love them rats.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

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