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Crytek Filing Lawsuit Against CIG

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Comments

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Erillion said:

    Not seen any constructive criticism from the fanboys either....
    Then I guess you must have missed a few hundredthousand forum posts, especially in the official SC forums  .....


    Have fun

    Sure but it's the motives of posters on these forums that a couple of people are complaining about.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Eldurian said:
    Simply put, hanging around and naysaying about a game you believe will fail month after month after month is pathetic. It's not even like most these people are burnt ex-community members. A lot of them come here just to troll. It's no better than if I were to go troll the WoW or SWTOR sections for months or even years at a time.

    Constructive criticism fine, but I have yet to see anything constructive from most of these anti-fanboys.
    Eh I’d rather be pathetic for hanging around and nay saying about a game that has brought this on itself then be pathetic for trying to defend a game company’s honour when they really don’t give a shit about you unless it’s to have you open your wallet
    ZandogGdemami
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,976
    edited April 2018
    Gamers care deeply about games, trolls care about drama and attention. That's all there is to it.

    Every game forum has full time trolls but most are just angry gamers venting, you can ignore them, correct them or simply make fun of them but you cant really shut them down because they are tied deeply by their negative emotions about something.

    Read the article:

    Understanding the Angry Gamer (full article)

    One thing I’ve noticed is that, within the gaming community, there are always the really angry gamers. Extremely vocal gamers who are vehemently angry with a developer about things. It is usually because of some design decision or implementation about the game that just rubbed some of the players the wrong way. And boy, do gamers love to hold grudges.

    image

    When a player who is this invested in the game doesn’t get his or her way, it’s like a shock to the system. These players are now faced with an awful truth - they are not actually a part of the development process, no matter how many developer streams they watched or developer forum responses they got. They do not really have much ownership beyond being one customer among literally millions. They are not part of something larger than themselves, no matter how much they wish it were otherwise. And they may have to face the realization that there might not be the perfect game for them tailored to exactly their wants and desires, but someone else might get what they want instead.

    image

    That realization makes them suddenly feel very small, insecure, and, above all else, insignificant. Nobody likes feeling that way. It’s uncomfortable and shaming at the same time. But the intensity of the feelings haven’t gone anywhere. They’re still there - you can’t just shut that sort of thing off. All of the formerly positive, passionate feelings of engagement suddenly have nowhere positive to be channeled, and so they turn to the dark side.

    That’s why their statements are often like this:

    • Just because it’s popular (or makes money) doesn’t mean it’s good
    • Developer X is abandoning their TRUE fans
    • This is just a cash grab.
    • They lied to me, I don’t trust them anymore.
    • They’ve sold out to Y
    • All they want is money, they don’t care about us
    • They’ve lost sight of what their original vision was.
    • They dumbed everything down for Z
    • The MAJORITY of the fans actually want Y!

    Full article: http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/96091066151/understanding-the-angry-gamer

    Understanding that this behaviour is not normal for such individuals is the key point. For them Star Citizen is not just any other video-game in development anymore, CIG is not just another company and Chris Roberts is just not another developer trying to make a game.

    Posting News, screenshots ,videos, updates, gameplay discussion, celebrating a new million, in short people enjoying the development of Star Citizen. This is the main source of frustration for the haters, and that frustration will continue as long as Star Citizen keeps getting developed and there's people enjoying it.

    TLDR: Haters Be Like

    ErillionScotchUpZandogGdemamiEldurian
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    I think THIS is the most important sentence in the article

    "...The important thing to remember is that, first and foremost, angry gamers are, in actuality, deeply engaged fans of the game...."

    And i think the "haters" will HATE (sic) that sentence with a vengeance. ;-)


    Have fun
    postlarvalGdemami
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,976
    edited April 2018
    Torval said:
    So who won? We're coming up on 1k posts. There has to be a winner by now.
    Like always the lawyers win ofc  :D

    [Deleted User]
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited April 2018
    Erillion said:
    I think THIS is the most important sentence in the article

    "...The important thing to remember is that, first and foremost, angry gamers are, in actuality, deeply engaged fans of the game...."

    And i think the "haters" will HATE (sic) that sentence with a vengeance. ;-)


    Have fun
    I think with Star Citizen it goes a bit deeper. Star Citizen is the poster child for kickstarted MMOs. MMOs are moving away from AAA titles because they aren't profitable anymore. You can only rehash WoW so many ways before everyone is entirely fed up with it. MMOs have lost their sense of wonder and mystery that once made this genre great and actually need to evolve beyond the WoW model to recapture it. AAA developers are extremely risk adverse so when the safe bet stops being safe, they just abandon the genre.

    Kickstarter MMOs have risen up to bring innovation back the the genre and carry it forward. They're really the only thing the genre has going for it right now. This enrages people who hate kickstarters because all they want is someone to drop 200 million+ dollars on WoW with better graphics again, but since AAA companies no longer are willing to do that all they have to look forward to is games like Star Citizen and Crowfall like the rest of us.

    With Star Citizen being the most prominent kickstarter game it's the best place for them to go somewhere to rage about the fact that gamers are now having to fund the development costs of games since AAA developers abandoned the MMO genre. I don't think they actually care about Star Citizen at all it's just the best place to whine they aren't getting their way.

    They probably should just go and replay the WoW clones they love so much before they become even more outdated than they already are.

    But don't worry Kefo and friends. There will be more AAA games ~7 years after the AAA companies figure out which of the new MMO models coming through the kickstarter wave is worth cloning for the next 10+ years.

    No need to thank us for financing the ideas that will give rise to the game's you'll be playing in 2030.
    postlarvalGdemami
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    You shouldn't generalize so much.

    But I like how somehow CIG invented crowdfunding now :)

    Maybe other games will sell assets 10 year before they release them.

    What a great boon for gaming!!
    Phaserlight

    ..Cake..

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,614
    Torval said:
    So who won? We're coming up on 1k posts. There has to be a winner by now.
    1k posts and the judge hasn't said a word yet on a case that haven't yet properly started! Record! \o/
    [Deleted User]
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    sgel said:
    You shouldn't generalize so much.

    But I like how somehow CIG invented crowdfunding now :)

    Maybe other games will sell assets 10 year before they release them.

    What a great boon for gaming!!
    Not invented but they've raised more funds by far than any other crowdfunded games, and are  the most widely known crowdfunded game. Like I said, they are the poster child. Just like how WoW didn't invent themeparks but they're by far the most successful and became the poster child for the many MMOs rehashing the EverQuest model over and over.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Eldurian said:
    Erillion said:
    I think THIS is the most important sentence in the article

    "...The important thing to remember is that, first and foremost, angry gamers are, in actuality, deeply engaged fans of the game...."

    And i think the "haters" will HATE (sic) that sentence with a vengeance. ;-)


    Have fun
    I think with Star Citizen it goes a bit deeper. Star Citizen is the poster child for kickstarted MMOs. MMOs are moving away from AAA titles because they aren't profitable anymore. You can only rehash WoW so many ways before everyone is entirely fed up with it. MMOs have lost their sense of wonder and mystery that once made this genre great and actually need to evolve beyond the WoW model to recapture it. AAA developers are extremely risk adverse so when the safe bet stops being safe, they just abandon the genre.

    Kickstarter MMOs have risen up to bring innovation back the the genre and carry it forward. They're really the only thing the genre has going for it right now. This enrages people who hate kickstarters because all they want is someone to drop 200 million+ dollars on WoW with better graphics again, but since AAA companies no longer are willing to do that all they have to look forward to is games like Star Citizen and Crowfall like the rest of us.

    With Star Citizen being the most prominent kickstarter game it's the best place for them to go somewhere to rage about the fact that gamers are now having to fund the development costs of games since AAA developers abandoned the MMO genre. I don't think they actually care about Star Citizen at all it's just the best place to whine they aren't getting their way.

    They probably should just go and replay the WoW clones they love so much before they become even more outdated than they already are.

    But don't worry Kefo and friends. There will be more AAA games ~7 years after the AAA companies figure out which of the new MMO models coming through the kickstarter wave is worth cloning for the next 10+ years.

    No need to thank us for financing the ideas that will give rise to the game's you'll be playing in 2030.
    I’ll thank you for providing me with endless laughs. 

    Ill give you some insight into my gaming habits so you can reflect on what you wrote and then slowly extract your foot from your mouth.

    i stopped playing WoW about 8 years now cause it’s become too dumbed down and easy, not that it wasn’t before but it got worse. There hasn’t been a good MMO, in my opinion, in a while because they are WoW clones and if I wanted to play WoW then I would and not a knock off. 

    I’ve been playing indie titles recently because they are games that appeal to the old school gamer in me. And yes I have helped Kickstart a MMO that returns to the roots of the genre and have critsized it when it made its mis steps. I don’t need AAA games to have fun. 

    You’re right though I won’t thank you for financing the ideas that will give rise to the games in the future because chances are SC is showing the big publisher that not only are micro transactions not dead but you can get away with selling thousands of dollars of crap before the game is even close to finished as long as you word it properly. So you keep on financing those micro transactions many of us hate and I’ll be over here playing my fun games that don’t try to charge me the cost of a used car for some pixels
    Phaserlight
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229

    sgel said:
    You shouldn't generalize so much.

    But I like how somehow CIG invented crowdfunding now :)

    Maybe other games will sell assets 10 year before they release them.

    What a great boon for gaming!!
    Don’t you know CIG also invented gaming? Do you know nothing @sgel
    Phaserlight
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited April 2018
    So, I am curious Eldurian..  If these crowdfunded games come out and, largely, fall flat...  Where does that leave your monologue?

    Because I doubt any of them will be industry-shaking.  Not because there aren't new ideas, but because I think there's just not as much interest in MMORPGs as we all seem to think.  The most popular game in the genre has been the only one worth mentioning with regards to industry-leading popularity or revenue.  The rest, while popular or wildly successful by MMORPG standards, are pretty mediocre in the grand scheme of the industry.  I don't see any of these breaking that mold, unless Star Citizen pulls together into a tightly knit, intertwined universe with all those features they're throwing in it.

    What if, and I know this is crazy, but bear with me: investors left the genre because there's a shit ton of titles crowding the space, they almost all refuse to die now with cash shop lootbox/MT shenanigans, and folks invest a lot of time (and, now, money) into characters they don't want to give up?

    image
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Torval said:
    So who won? We're coming up on 1k posts. There has to be a winner by now.
    The lawyers.


    Have fun
    Phaserlight[Deleted User]
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited April 2018
    @Kefo - So if AAA developers aren't going to drop money on games anymore, and users will not fund these games (Because no Kickstarter that doesn't offer some kind of meaningful in-game perk will go anywhere), how are you proposing we fund the multi-million dollar projects that are halfway decent MMOs? 
    So, I am curious Eldurian..  If these crowdfunded games come out and, largely, fall flat...  Where does that leave your monologue?
    A near complete death of the genre. It will probably rise again eventually but for the next few years it will be left in increasing stagnation until someone with enough money to actually fund a good MMO decides they're willing to take a risk.

    However, I believe it's this environment of increasing stagnation that is going to allow at least one of these projects to become the EverQuest of our time. Just like it was easier for a project to rise and set itself apart while MMOs were still new, it is easier for a project to rise and set itself apart when the genre is a wasteland.
    MadFrenchieGdemami
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Eldurian said:
    @Kefo - So if AAA developers aren't going to drop money on games anymore, and users will not fund these games (Because no Kickstarter that doesn't offer some kind of meaningful in-game perk will go anywhere), how are you proposing we fund the multi-million dollar projects that are halfway decent MMOs? 
    So, I am curious Eldurian..  If these crowdfunded games come out and, largely, fall flat...  Where does that leave your monologue?
    A near complete death of the genre. It will probably rise again eventually but for the next few years it will be left in increasing stagnation until someone with enough money to actually fund a good MMO decides they're willing to take a risk.

    However, I believe it's this environment of increasing stagnation that is going to allow at least one of these projects to become the EverQuest of our time. Just like it was easier for a project to rise and set itself apart while MMOs were still new, it is easier for a project to rise and set itself apart when the genre is a wasteland.
    I’m all for users helping to fund video games that big publishers seem too risky but the key point of that is help. If a dev studio expects the fans to shoulder all the financial burden then too damn bad. Someone becomes far more invested in a project or idea if it’s their money also on the line. 

    If the dev studio can’t put up a bulk of the cash or get a loan then perhaps they shouldnt be trying for that super ambitious project and they should start small, build fun games on decent budgets and build up the cash reserves. 

    And if if you can’t get people to donate on Kickstarter for things like design a dungeon or a unique skin then you need to rethink the game genre and it’s audience. You don’t need p2w items in a Kickstarter but cosmetics, game time (if p2p) or something stupid that doesn’t affect gameplay are always a hit with people
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    I don't think you have any concept of the amount of money MMO development takes. The Average AAA MMO takes hundreds of millions of dollars. Asking indie MMOs to pay their own bills is the exact reason indie MMOs have been the quality we've historically seen.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking fans to put some money forth if they believe in the project. And if you define "Pay To Win" as paying real money to get an in-game advantage then there pretty much aren't MMOs that don't fit that bill. Any MMO with a trade system has gold sellers for the most part and you'd probably be surprised how many people take advantage of them. They wouldn't be spamming constantly if nobody was buying. Like it or not people swipe, at least when the devs sell you something everyone is allowed to buy it and not just those who skirt the rules.
    Gdemami
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Eldurian said:
    I don't think you have any concept of the amount of money MMO development takes. The Average AAA MMO takes hundreds of millions of dollars. Asking indie MMOs to pay their own bills is the exact reason indie MMOs have been the quality we've historically seen.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking fans to put some money forth if they believe in the project. And if you define "Pay To Win" as paying real money to get an in-game advantage then there pretty much aren't MMOs that don't fit that bill. Any MMO with a trade system has gold sellers for the most part and you'd probably be surprised how many people take advantage of them. They wouldn't be spamming constantly if nobody was buying. Like it or not people swipe, at least when the devs sell you something everyone is allowed to buy it and not just those who skirt the rules.
    I do have an idea of the costs hence why I also said if they can’t build that super ambitious game or an MMO without fronting the bulk of the cash then they should be making other games they can afford to make until they have a good amount in the bank to build their MMO. 


  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,675
    Is everyone in agreement that Star Citizen is an MMO now?  Because when Massively OP gave Star Citizen the biggest MMO flop award, tons of white knights were claiming Star Citizen was not an MMO.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Is everyone in agreement that Star Citizen is an MMO now? 
    No.


    Have fun
    postlarvalrpmcmurphyNilden
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Erin Roberts says we want hundreds of thousands in the same instance, which means MMO for the most pedantic of pedants, Erillion says no...
    sgelKefo
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    edited April 2018
    Erin Roberts says we want hundreds of thousands in the same instance, which means MMO for the most pedantic of pedants, Erillion says no...
    Wake me up when we have hundreds of thousands in the same instance.

    I am a veteran of thousands in the same instance (EVE Online, with time dilation). And "have the scars to prove it".


    Have fun
    WalkinGlenn
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    Erillion said:
    Erin Roberts says we want hundreds of thousands in the same instance, which means MMO for the most pedantic of pedants, Erillion says no...
    Wake me up when we have hundreds of thousands in the same instance.

    I am a veteran of thousands in the same instance (EVE Online, with time dilation). And "have the scars to prove it".


    Have fun
    Yes, THOUSANDS... which is precisely the reason why it's not a very unique characteristic and it becomes very strange that you think it's worth gloating about.

    Especially when you think it's worth diverting the topic that SC is actually an mmo even though it doesn't have thousands of people in the same instance (hello, the vast majority of mmos don't).

    ..Cake..

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    sgel said:
    Erillion said:
    Erin Roberts says we want hundreds of thousands in the same instance, which means MMO for the most pedantic of pedants, Erillion says no...
    Wake me up when we have hundreds of thousands in the same instance.

    I am a veteran of thousands in the same instance (EVE Online, with time dilation). And "have the scars to prove it".


    Have fun
    Yes, THOUSANDS... which is precisely the reason why it's not a very unique characteristic and it becomes very strange that you think it's worth gloating about.

    Especially when you think it's worth diverting the topic that SC is actually an mmo even though it doesn't have thousands of people in the same instance (hello, the vast majority of mmos don't).
    I have given (in other threads) quite in detail my reasons why i personally think that SC is not an MMO   e.g.  because it says so in the FAQ.

    I do not want to rehash these off-topic arguments in a thread with the title

    "Crytek Filing Lawsuit Against CIG".


    Have fun


  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Motion for protective order was denied today on the basis that it was moot. Judge Gee stated that discovery could start before or after the scheduling conference but no discovery is required until an order has been issued. Since no order has been issued CIG is allowed to ignore discovery requests for now, hence the denial.

    Octagon7711VrikaPhaserlightZandogIselinMadFrenchie
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
This discussion has been closed.