Blizzard Exploring How AI Can Target & Punish Toxic Players - Overwatch - MMORPG.com

jj7009 · April 2018

k61977 said:

Not to be mean but if you’re disabled so badly to where it greatly inhibits your ability to play you shouldn’t play competitive

So just because a person has a disability they shouldn't be allowed to do something. Pretty sure there is something wrong there. Sorry but if a person with one hand wants to play competitive they have just as much right as you. If a person with extreme arthritis wants to play competitive .... The list goes on and on. Telling someone they can't do something because you don't think it is right isn't the answer. Pretty sure that starts to fall along the lines of discrimination.

So that person has the right to drag down someone else’s competitive experience? And yea if a person is paralyzed from the waste down they need to go play basketball with others in there situation rather than play in the standard league. Is it fair? No it’s not but it wouldn’t be a disability if they could do everything like everyone else. Now there are exceptions like that street fighter pro with no arms or legs, but he learned to play a new way and got to a level of play better than most. His disability doesn’t inhibit hI’m but if it did he sure as hell wouldn’t be in their league.

JeffSpicoli · April 2018

k61977 said:

You want to know the easiest way to stop toxic behavior in games, remove the ability to have animity on the internet. That is the only true way to stop it. Link all games to actual people. Unfortunately that can't be done in today's world to many ways to circumvent it, but maybe one day. Just imagine you had to talk and interact with people with them knowing who you are and where you live, doubt half the people would act like they do.

So the removal of anonymity will be tied to my ISP or just sites i register on and the games I Play? id be curious how your 1985 like uptopia would work?

Lets say I got a really bad jock itch, Im a big guy , well over 6 foot & iv put on a couple pounds over the years, Sometimes when its hot the space between my leg and my ball sac sweat, really , really bad. So i go onto a jock itch forum and i post for remedies, you still with me detective gadget? So a week passes, My balls no longer itch, the remedy of baby powder and blow drying my sac after showering worked wonders. Now my female co worker googles my name and see's iv been in a forum for jock itch, Well like any bored co worker juicy gossip of my ball rash spreads like wild fire no pun intended, Suddenly there is a rumor around the office that i have a highly contagious sexually transmitted disease. Next thing i know HR is having a conference regarding my hygiene all because of a simple jock itch

Example #2 Comrade Stalin

Its a Saturday night, the kids are asleep , the wife is in bed and I finally have some alone time with the boys, Its a exciting evening of 5 man dungeon romping , but our boy BLUE, he cant raid tonight so we pug that last spot, We are desperate so we take the only person willing to join. Hmmm odd name to be living in the middle east, Joe Smith from Pakistan..... Hmmm thats odd, Anyway, 6 beers and two hours later The raid ends, I forgot Joe Smith from Pakistan was even there, I was in quite the chatty mood and over mic who knows what was said..... For all i know , Joe Smith now has my Name, Home address, Kids names where i work, hell i think i was even chatting about my cat and my highschool i attended both of which are my most common security question.... 2 weeks later i get a call from the bank... Guess what Mao Zedong? My bank account got cleared out ....

I could keep going but i think i made my point.

JeffSpicoli · April 2018

Torval said:

thunderC said:

I dont play this game so maybe someone could fill me in on what kind of "toxicity" we are talking about here. There is nothing i despise more than a uptight environment where something like naming you character "The Donald or KingTrump69" or silly trolling in chat leads to a suspension . Or we talking about people screaming racist slurs over mic and doxxing? The term "toxicity" is very vague and up for interpretation, What is considered toxicity to some is shtick or humor to another. Id like to hear some examples of this toxicity before i form my opinion on whether a SJW AI terminator is needed or not.

Blizzard is pretty clear about it's code of conduct. Read it before you play if you're unclear what is appropriate public behavior.

AI is neither subjective or inconsistent. It's not going to report or discipline people because they named their character "CheetoLover" or "TrumpGobbler" unless ActiBlizz has clearly defined that as a no no. What they will do is moderate those people violating their terms of service and end user license agreement. You're agreeing to use their service as they dictate. If you can't then you'll face remediation.

It's really not any different than other social clubs with rules and guidelines. Why does this surprise some gamers?

I dont play though, which is why i asked. I dont really care enough to read through there TOS lol I think the game blows. Thought i could just get the cliff notes from those passionate about the topic at hand . I WANT REAL EXAMPLES, Tell me what you heard or saw typed that was toxic or offensive, Im not challenging you i just want to form a opinion on the subject

Sovrath · April 2018

thunderC said:

Torval said:

thunderC said:

I dont play this game so maybe someone could fill me in on what kind of "toxicity" we are talking about here. There is nothing i despise more than a uptight environment where something like naming you character "The Donald or KingTrump69" or silly trolling in chat leads to a suspension . Or we talking about people screaming racist slurs over mic and doxxing? The term "toxicity" is very vague and up for interpretation, What is considered toxicity to some is shtick or humor to another. Id like to hear some examples of this toxicity before i form my opinion on whether a SJW AI terminator is needed or not.

Blizzard is pretty clear about it's code of conduct. Read it before you play if you're unclear what is appropriate public behavior.

AI is neither subjective or inconsistent. It's not going to report or discipline people because they named their character "CheetoLover" or "TrumpGobbler" unless ActiBlizz has clearly defined that as a no no. What they will do is moderate those people violating their terms of service and end user license agreement. You're agreeing to use their service as they dictate. If you can't then you'll face remediation.

It's really not any different than other social clubs with rules and guidelines. Why does this surprise some gamers?

I dont play though, which is why i asked. I dont really care enough to read through there TOS lol I think the game blows. Thought i could just get the cliff notes from those passionate about the topic at hand . I WANT REAL EXAMPLES, Tell me what you heard or saw typed that was toxic or offensive, Im not challenging you i just want to form a opinion on the subject

If you've played any game then you must have seen the racist, sexist, expletive laden, homophobic bits from various players.

Just log into Black Desert on a weekend or evening.

Scot · April 2018

SedrynTyros said:

Scot said:

It is with some bemusement that I note the toxic behaviour on this thread. It does seem that some gamers regard a games world chat as their personal pissing ground. You are not a dog out marking your territory, so don't behave like one.

This is a perfect example of the problem with this entire approach of protecting us all from the "Toxic Community". Oh nos, the toxic ones have come!!!! Hide the children!!!!!

I don't see a single toxic post in this thread. To me, this is just a spirited discussion among people who don't all see this issue the same way.

"Toxic" seems to loosely translate to "stuff I don't like". I guess we all need to submit our own lists to Blizzard and then they'll create separate rule sets for all of us?

I'd like everyone I defeat in Overwatch to give me a virtual hug so I know there's no hard feelings. Don't worry, I'll do the same for you when you kick my ass. It's gonna be peace and love ... well, ya know, in between us killing each other.

Check out page 2, the post by Vorathian, then come back to me and tell me that is fine.

JeffSpicoli · April 2018

Sovrath said:

thunderC said:

Torval said:

thunderC said:

I dont play this game so maybe someone could fill me in on what kind of "toxicity" we are talking about here. There is nothing i despise more than a uptight environment where something like naming you character "The Donald or KingTrump69" or silly trolling in chat leads to a suspension . Or we talking about people screaming racist slurs over mic and doxxing? The term "toxicity" is very vague and up for interpretation, What is considered toxicity to some is shtick or humor to another. Id like to hear some examples of this toxicity before i form my opinion on whether a SJW AI terminator is needed or not.

Blizzard is pretty clear about it's code of conduct. Read it before you play if you're unclear what is appropriate public behavior.

AI is neither subjective or inconsistent. It's not going to report or discipline people because they named their character "CheetoLover" or "TrumpGobbler" unless ActiBlizz has clearly defined that as a no no. What they will do is moderate those people violating their terms of service and end user license agreement. You're agreeing to use their service as they dictate. If you can't then you'll face remediation.

It's really not any different than other social clubs with rules and guidelines. Why does this surprise some gamers?

I dont play though, which is why i asked. I dont really care enough to read through there TOS lol I think the game blows. Thought i could just get the cliff notes from those passionate about the topic at hand . I WANT REAL EXAMPLES, Tell me what you heard or saw typed that was toxic or offensive, Im not challenging you i just want to form a opinion on the subject

If you've played any game then you must have seen the racist, sexist, expletive laden, homophobic bits from various players.

Just log into Black Desert on a weekend or evening.

Again id like specific examples, You can send them to me in a private message. Im not a advocate for people using the N word or doxxing , But a full on ban in Final Fantasy because someone called another play a fruitcake in chat because he was wearing ass less chaps and and S & M harness across his chest, See thats what im talking about. Where is the line drawn? To someone who is gay that might be highly offensive , to someone who is gay that might be hilarious.

Im a Italian American, If someone called me a Guinee in chat id find it hilarious. An Italian from Italy wouldnt even know what it means and a maybe someone who isnt Italian at all would find this offensive, Is there a list of naughty words in the TOS ?

e

MadFrenchie · April 2018

SedrynTyros said:

Scot said:

It is with some bemusement that I note the toxic behaviour on this thread. It does seem that some gamers regard a games world chat as their personal pissing ground. You are not a dog out marking your territory, so don't behave like one.

This is a perfect example of the problem with this entire approach of protecting us all from the "Toxic Community". Oh nos, the toxic ones have come!!!! Hide the children!!!!!

I don't see a single toxic post in this thread. To me, this is just a spirited discussion among people who don't all see this issue the same way.

"Toxic" seems to loosely translate to "stuff I don't like". I guess we all need to submit our own lists to Blizzard and then they'll create separate rule sets for all of us?

I'd like everyone I defeat in Overwatch to give me a virtual hug so I know there's no hard feelings. Don't worry, I'll do the same for you when you kick my ass. It's gonna be peace and love ... well, ya know, in between us killing each other.

Again, as Torval mentioned.. The ToS will define what behaviors are acceptable. If they're banning folks that aren't violating their ToS, it's a shitty move from Blizzard. That has nothing to do with a social zeitgeist or philosophical ideals of toxic. It's literally in black and white.

Siveria · April 2018

SBFord said:

Siveria said:

I honestly think players need to stop being wimps and learn to grow thicker skin when on the internet myself. So many people these days are offended by the dumbest stuff. "Whaaaa some random person i'm probally never going to meet again hurt mah feels, wahhh need to cry to support about it"

Honestly? best way to handle it? ban them. 3 strikes your out system, first is a warning, 2nd is a 3-7 day ban, and the third strike? permaban, because if they haven't learned after the first 2 strikes they aren't going to learn at all.

This "excuse" for bad behavior is getting so tiresome. There's this thing called sportsmanship -- not that tempers don't get heated, not that words aren't sometimes exchanged. Those aren't the ones that need to go.

The people that all of these game developers are targeting make a habit out of being bullies. It's their thing and telling people that they just have to "grow a thicker skin" is dismissing behavior that in any other context would not be tolerated and trying to somehow "blame" people for being bullied. No.

In light of this overall topic, this is good reading:

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/03/riot-blizzard-and-twitch-are-teaming-up-to-fight-toxic-gaming-behaviour/

Its not exactly an excuse, but really people today are such special flowers that every little thing hurts their feels. While bullies need to be delt with of course, you have to remember that bullies only keep up their act because they get a reaction out of someone, you start ignoring them they go away. Works almost every time too, Start passing out perma bans for lighter things and they'll eventually learn their lesson after the first few times.

That said I do admit that internet today is the most toxic its ever been. I'm used to it myself so it doesn't really bug me much but it has gotten really bad these days.

I generally stay away from open pvp games these days because they are usually filled with nothing but the scum of online society who only wanna hit lv cap then gank noobs all day. Which besides being annoying to the new player, ends up killing the game they enjoy as people hate losing progression and once it gets out that its nothing but a gank/greifer filled cesspool that game is pretty much dead, as mmo's generally need constant new players to stay alive.

Now don't get me wrong, I love pvp, but not when it can cause item loss or some such, I don't find enjoyment in having to waste my time to replace items because someone 2-5x my level decided to one shot me.

Gazimoff · April 2018

Here's the thing - there's profit to be made by tackling toxic behaviour.

Riot had significant problems with recruiting and retaining new players to League of Legends. They were either put of by reports of the toxic community, or decided to quit early because of how they were treated.

This could put a crimp on growth - as players naturally retire and leave, LoL needed new blood to replace them. Without fresh faces, they wouldn't have new players to sell heroes and skins too. Revenues would stagnate and then decline.

It's why they invested in tackling the problem. Yes, there are other benefits, but the bottom line is that it made business sense. Retain more players, and you have a greater base of customers to sell to.

Problem is, much of this work requires players reporting the toxic behaviour, and then having CM/GM teams process those reports, weeding out false or malicious reporting as they go. It's imperfect, and it doesn't scale well - a larger playerbase needs more staff. That means the costs of running the game go up. Your skin and spray purchases are funding an army of people to trawl through reports and hand out punishments.

By using machine learning, you can apply pattern recognition to toxic behaviour. Parsing text is actually surprisingly accurate - algorithms can now understand both context and intent. Furthermore, it's possible to tune the machine learning further by analysing the content that players still report.

It also means that game management can scale much more easily with changes in player population and behaviour, lowering the cost of running games, and possibly leading to lower prices.

The end result is that toxic behaviour - as defined by the community at large - gets handled in realtime. Chat never even makes it to the other player's screen, and infraction responses can be immediate. Players stick around for longer, and are more likely to spend money on in-game purchases.

Oh, and assholes and dicks eventually realise that toxic behaviour no longer has an impact, and just gets them blocked or banned. At this point, they either reform or move on to another game, which makes them no longer a problem for Blizzard.

Likewise, there's nothing to stop a game dev from advertising themselves as a haven for toxicity. Just expect it to be a very niche product.

nk362y · April 2018

SBFord said:

CondarFreed said:

See the future and weep. AI created to suppress freedom of speech. Coming soon to the entire internet. I really do hate what's happening these days.

1) Being an asshole isn't "freedom of speech". It's being an asshole.
2) Do you even understand the historical and legal definition of freedom of speech?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States
3) There's this thing called Terms of Service. Read it and see what you've agreed to.
http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/eula
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/42673

It's still censoring people because someone gets their feelings hurt and it's wrong especially for a US based company. Asshole or not ALL SPEECH Is free and shouldn't be blocked or censored because it upsets someone. And I hate non legally binding TOS arugement. The only time speech should and is limited is calls to action or incitement. Maybe you should be the one to look it up and read what the amendment says instead of just linking it making look smart

nk362y · April 2018

SBFord said:

mmrv said:

SBFord said:

Siveria said:

I honestly think players need to stop being wimps and learn to grow thicker skin when on the internet myself. So many people these days are offended by the dumbest stuff. "Whaaaa some random person i'm probally never going to meet again hurt mah feels, wahhh need to cry to support about it"

Honestly? best way to handle it? ban them. 3 strikes your out system, first is a warning, 2nd is a 3-7 day ban, and the third strike? permaban, because if they haven't learned after the first 2 strikes they aren't going to learn at all.

This "excuse" for bad behavior is getting so tiresome. There's this thing called sportsmanship -- not that tempers don't get heated, not that words aren't sometimes exchanged. Those aren't the ones that need to go.

The people that all of these game developers are targeting make a habit out of being bullies. It's their thing and telling people that they just have to "grow a thicker skin" is dismissing behavior that in any other context would not be tolerated and trying to somehow "blame" people for being bullied. No.

In light of this overall topic, this is good reading:

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/03/riot-blizzard-and-twitch-are-teaming-up-to-fight-toxic-gaming-behaviour/

The excuse for tyrannical oppression is also getting tiresome. People have chat filters and the ability to mute others, bad behavior is beyond subjective and that is the problem. Stop trying to manufacture "bullying". Some random joe on the internet saying "mean things like "you suck" is not bullying, and further more in almost every case the user has the ability to opt in or out of the chat and my god YOU DO NOT HAVE TO READ THE TEXT TYPED int he first place. Stop playing the blame game and start taking responsibility. Because we all know how it goes and in almost every case of "bad behavior" in a game the supposed victim sticks out their chin and dares you slap it over and over with their own version of replies instead of ignore mute etc... instead of engaging it.

Why should the "victim" of abuse have to just shut up and take it and be the one to apply the fixes? Why shouldn't the asshole take responsibility for being an asshole? Why shouldn't Blizzard try to rein in this obviously systemic problem? It's not like it's 1 or 2 people. It's game-wide and it's a problem.

There are so many other parallels to this whole discussion but they're not worth bringing in so that we can keep this thread open. The only thing I will say is this: NEVER blame the victim whether it's in a game or in some other situation.

Because what you feel being an asshole is what someone else deems being an asshole. And when you enter a public space like this forum or an online multiplayer game you yourself need to accept the fact not everyone is going to live by YOUR standards of what is good. Now I belive everyone has the right to be free from harassment. But just because someone gets mad at you for playing poorly in their eyes doesn't constitute harassment. It just means not everyone likes you OH NOOO.

KalebGrayson · April 2018

SedrynTyros said:

Torval said:

SedrynTyros said:

jj7009 said:

Hate be the killjoy but being an asshole is freedom of speech. However there is no freedom of speech in overwatch as it’s privately owned.

Yep, no doubt about that. It's their game and they can do whatever they want with it, including program an AI to protect overly-sensitive people from getting their fweeeings hurt ..... awwww ...

It's not about hurt feelings. It's about not having to put up with obnoxious disruptive people using the wrong mechanisms to get attention. I think a lot of people are hurting and lonely and are trying to get attention and inclusion, but it's all the wrong way. Others don't have to put up with that.

Also, maybe you should consider others feelings as something valuable. That's empathy.

I have plenty of empathy where it's warranted, but I have zero empathy for people who want to create their own safe space instead of using block/mute. And not everyone who has their feelings hurt deserves your empathy or mine; sometimes they're just a giant wuss who needs to come to terms with the fact that the world doesn't need to conform to make them comfortable.

If I met you on the street, where is my block/mute then? I know I could walk away and never see you again, but that's not the point. Why is the standard different online as opposed to in person? In person, there is no anonymity. THAT is why folks behave (when they don't behave in public you see them on the 6 o'clock news...lol). Consequences and repercussions. The internet, contrary to some belief, is NOT the wild wild west.

Gazimoff · April 2018

nk362y said:

Because what you feel being an asshole is what someone else deems being an asshole. And when you enter a public space like this forum or an online multiplayer game you yourself need to accept the fact not everyone is going to live by YOUR standards of what is good. Now I belive everyone has the right to be free from harassment. But just because someone gets mad at you for playing poorly in their eyes doesn't constitute harassment. It just means not everyone likes you OH NOOO.

Wrong

If you walk into a bar, and behave like an asshole, you'll get thrown out by the security staff. Management reserve the right of admission, and can boot you out onto the street for any reason they like. You can claim free speech all you like, but it doesn't give you the right to be heard.

Same applies in online video games and forums like these. You don't have an automatic right to post anywhere - the firm running the service owns the platform, and reserves the right to ban people from it as they see fit. Your speech does not make you immune to the consequences of that speech.

Now, if YOU can't get with THEIR standards, that's on you.

MadFrenchie · April 2018

SedrynTyros said:

MadFrenchie said:

SedrynTyros said:

Scot said:

It is with some bemusement that I note the toxic behaviour on this thread. It does seem that some gamers regard a games world chat as their personal pissing ground. You are not a dog out marking your territory, so don't behave like one.

This is a perfect example of the problem with this entire approach of protecting us all from the "Toxic Community". Oh nos, the toxic ones have come!!!! Hide the children!!!!!

I don't see a single toxic post in this thread. To me, this is just a spirited discussion among people who don't all see this issue the same way.

"Toxic" seems to loosely translate to "stuff I don't like". I guess we all need to submit our own lists to Blizzard and then they'll create separate rule sets for all of us?

I'd like everyone I defeat in Overwatch to give me a virtual hug so I know there's no hard feelings. Don't worry, I'll do the same for you when you kick my ass. It's gonna be peace and love ... well, ya know, in between us killing each other.

Again, as Torval mentioned.. The ToS will define what behaviors are acceptable. If they're banning folks that aren't violating their ToS, it's a shitty move from Blizzard. That has nothing to do with a social zeitgeist or philosophical ideals of toxic. It's literally in black and white.

I haven't read the ToS recently, but I'm willing to bet there's language in there pointing to highly subjective behaviors, rather than objective standards. Objective: a list of words I can not use. Subjective: how somebody feels about something I said. As I'm sure you know, the distinction is important. I can say the same exact words to two different people and get two entirely different reactions, and sometimes different interpretations of my words.

Again, I have a hard time imagining Blizzard is banning people based solely on feelings. Without some kind of evidence of a violation of the ToS, I don't see anyone getting a ban.

SBFord · April 2018

SedrynTyros said:

KalebGrayson said:

SedrynTyros said:

Torval said:

SedrynTyros said:

jj7009 said:

Hate be the killjoy but being an asshole is freedom of speech. However there is no freedom of speech in overwatch as it’s privately owned.

Yep, no doubt about that. It's their game and they can do whatever they want with it, including program an AI to protect overly-sensitive people from getting their fweeeings hurt ..... awwww ...

It's not about hurt feelings. It's about not having to put up with obnoxious disruptive people using the wrong mechanisms to get attention. I think a lot of people are hurting and lonely and are trying to get attention and inclusion, but it's all the wrong way. Others don't have to put up with that.

Also, maybe you should consider others feelings as something valuable. That's empathy.

I have plenty of empathy where it's warranted, but I have zero empathy for people who want to create their own safe space instead of using block/mute. And not everyone who has their feelings hurt deserves your empathy or mine; sometimes they're just a giant wuss who needs to come to terms with the fact that the world doesn't need to conform to make them comfortable.

If I met you on the street, where is my block/mute then? I know I could walk away and never see you again, but that's not the point. Why is the standard different online as opposed to in person? In person, there is no anonymity. THAT is why folks behave (when they don't behave in public you see them on the 6 o'clock news...lol). Consequences and repercussions. The internet, contrary to some belief, is NOT the wild wild west.

But it is the Wild Wild West and it's because of anonymity, as you pointed out. That's not going to be fixed with an AI algorithm.

Maybe we can just have everyone's Alexa or Siri or Cortana just send out an electrical pulse to kick offensive "toxic" players off the net for 10 minutes.

The real answer is for people to remember their manners, have some common sense AND decency with regard to their fellow travelers in this world. But that's too "hard" for some people, I guess.

If you want to brush up on Blizzard's ToS and so on:

http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/eula
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/42673

nk362y · April 2018

SBFord said:

Warhawke80 said:

This may ramble a bit but.....

As a former Guild member of Jeff's I find it ironic that "Tigole Bitties" Is talking about toxic anything...he pretty much wrote the book on Toxicity in gaming back in the day. In any event I think we should give tools to the players to decide what type of speech the care to hear. It seems fashionable to label anyone you disagree with as an assshole and honestly compared to how bad in game chat use to be, the whole Big Brother approach seems a day late and a dollar short.

The big scary part of this is if AI is handling moderation that allows the developer to remove themselves from responsibility, and they can say "I didn't ban you the SJW5000 banned you."

No this isn't going to end well, the generation right behind this current perpetually outraged and offended generation is shaping up to be the polar opposite, combine those with the vast majority of 80"s and 90's gamers and you have a very large demographic. Sure game developers can follow the comic industry and say "we don't want that demographics money" The same thing will happen to gaming that happen'd to comics.

socprogs only gather at what is the trending two minuets of hate; when they move to the next fashionable outrage, developers that bought into this will be left holding the bag, actual gamers have long memories and a penchant for revenge....if you don't believe me have a chat with Bill Roper sometimes.

Please don't bring the whole political thing into this with your sly hints at "SJW" and so forth. It's a spirited and interesting discussion without that stuff.

As to the upcoming generation that is leading this country to true reform in a number of crucial areas: You can bet that they will be the ones to find the solution to toxicity in all its forms and locations, even in games that are an integral part of their lives. They've been inspirational to those of us who perhaps dozed in complacency for too long.

As for Kaplan, perhaps "in the day" he was a toxic player. But we all grow, learn and change. I'd hate to be judged now solely on the things I did in years past.

This is the first generation that's fighting for less rights and privileges. And to all the people who fought, died and sacrificed soo much to keep our rights and privileges must be turning over in their graves and are crying each and everyday seeing what our once great country is turning into. Less rights more restrictions is not progress it's socialism and I remember we used stand up and say we are AMERICANS AND WE WONT STAND FOR THIS SHIT! Now we are allowing children to get on tv and tell us how horrible we are for wanting to keep our rights.

Gazimoff · April 2018

SedrynTyros said:

But it is the Wild Wild West and it's because of anonymity, as you pointed out. That's not going to be fixed with an AI algorithm.

Wrong.

Overwatch is not free-to-play. It requires a game purchase, tied to a Battle.net account. This itself installs through a launcher. At best, you're psuedo-anonymous. At worst, not anonymous at all - especially if you have other games on there.

Blizzard uses a launcher on PC, which collects hardware info about your desktop. On consoles, it collects information about the hardware unit. It is possible for them to block the entire machine from the game - buying another copy or CD Key won't help you.

You also underestimate the capabilities of AI. In an era where Google Assistant and Amazon Alexa can understand your voice and anticipate needs, deciphering some rage-filled screed in text chat is trivial by comparison. If anything, it's surprising that a publisher hasn't tried this tech already.

JeffSpicoli · April 2018

If I met you on the street, where is my block/mute then? I know I could walk away and never see you again, but that's not the point. Why is the standard different online as opposed to in person? In person, there is no anonymity. THAT is why folks behave (when they don't behave in public you see them on the 6 o'clock news...lol). Consequences and repercussions. The internet, contrary to some belief, is NOT the wild wild west.

NOT TRUE

The other day i went to Home Depot to buy a new washer. The first thing i did was crash my vehicle through the double doors, I then proceeded to hop out of my truck and make my way to isle 18 all the while screaming the N word over and over and over and over again until someone finally acknowledged my presence. When i got the section where they had the washers i was unfortunately greeted by some noob who clearly didn't know what the f&^% she was doing. I then proceeded to berate her in front of the entire store I told her " GTFO out of my sight and dont come back until you learn every product in this store!!!" She tried to explain this was her first week on the job but i wasn't hearing that shit.

They banned me from the store, but big deal, now i shop at Lowes

nk362y · April 2018

Seelinnikoi said:

I am the type of person that if possible, would make dissapear all the prisons and the people encarcerated within.

So you can imagine my stance on toxic players.

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing.

Want to be a bully? Go ahead.

What to say whatever is on your mind? Go ahead.

But be prepared for the consequences.

Death penalty for any and all crimes. See how long bad behaviour would last.

And this is dictatorship

SBFord · April 2018

MadFrenchie said:

SedrynTyros said:

MadFrenchie said:

SedrynTyros said:

Scot said:

It is with some bemusement that I note the toxic behaviour on this thread. It does seem that some gamers regard a games world chat as their personal pissing ground. You are not a dog out marking your territory, so don't behave like one.

This is a perfect example of the problem with this entire approach of protecting us all from the "Toxic Community". Oh nos, the toxic ones have come!!!! Hide the children!!!!!

I don't see a single toxic post in this thread. To me, this is just a spirited discussion among people who don't all see this issue the same way.

"Toxic" seems to loosely translate to "stuff I don't like". I guess we all need to submit our own lists to Blizzard and then they'll create separate rule sets for all of us?

I'd like everyone I defeat in Overwatch to give me a virtual hug so I know there's no hard feelings. Don't worry, I'll do the same for you when you kick my ass. It's gonna be peace and love ... well, ya know, in between us killing each other.

Again, as Torval mentioned.. The ToS will define what behaviors are acceptable. If they're banning folks that aren't violating their ToS, it's a shitty move from Blizzard. That has nothing to do with a social zeitgeist or philosophical ideals of toxic. It's literally in black and white.

I haven't read the ToS recently, but I'm willing to bet there's language in there pointing to highly subjective behaviors, rather than objective standards. Objective: a list of words I can not use. Subjective: how somebody feels about something I said. As I'm sure you know, the distinction is important. I can say the same exact words to two different people and get two entirely different reactions, and sometimes different interpretations of my words.

Again, I have a hard time imagining Blizzard is banning people based solely on feelings. Without some kind of evidence of a violation of the ToS, I don't see anyone getting a ban.

Years ago, I worked for a company that was a third party provider of forum moderation services. We tried with all that we had to come up with an exhaustive list of phrases and words that were considered "toxic" and "bannable". Guess what? Then we got the cutsies that said f*ck, fu*k and so on ad nauseum. It literally never ended.

"Waaahhh....you banned me but PH*K isn't on the LIIIIIIIIIST....."

It simply wasn't worth the time or effort because there's always some jerk who's going to push the limits and push the limits and push the limits. It. Never. Stops. And people wonder why they go with generalities. Geez.

nk362y · April 2018

SBFord said:

kitarad said:

My problem is that I cannot understand why people have to talk or write like that. This is what as a person from an older generation I am unable fathom. It does not make your point more relevant because you swear, curse and threaten bodily injury against another person.

People need to exercise self control like they do in real life. If you will not speak like that and be considered acceptable by others or without getting your nose bent I do not see why that same standard cannot be applied to online chat.

I feel people need to be disciplined. The lack of discipline at home and general lack of courtesy needs to be addressed. If your argument is that you speak like that to your own mother and father than my friend it's about time you were dealt with by others who have no wish to listen to that type of talk or read that type of text.

If your parents have not taught you the proper way to behave than I will use the tools afforded to me to teach you a lesson you well deserve so that you might become a proper individual.

You know what I'm always reminded of? We put filters on our behavior and language in all sorts of situations. But I use the "gramma" or "mom" litmus test: If I wouldn't say it to them and I'd be horrifically angry if someone said it to them, then I keep my mouth shut. There are other ways to make your point than grotesque profanity or through frightening threats. When did people stop exercising any form of self-control?

All we really need to remember is that innocent dude who was killed recently in a "swatting prank" to see that toxicity in gaming has reached a horrifying zenith.

And is you want to censor yourself that's fine but don't you put that censorship on me or anyone else

nk362y · April 2018

I remember the old saying treat others like you want to be treated. If someone acts like an asshole then they get the same back from me. Instead of claiming victimhood then defend yourself with words or blockers and ignore lists that's what they are there for. Don't go crying to mommy stand up and show them you wont be pushed around

SBFord · April 2018

nk362y said:

SBFord said:

Warhawke80 said:

This may ramble a bit but.....

As a former Guild member of Jeff's I find it ironic that "Tigole Bitties" Is talking about toxic anything...he pretty much wrote the book on Toxicity in gaming back in the day. In any event I think we should give tools to the players to decide what type of speech the care to hear. It seems fashionable to label anyone you disagree with as an assshole and honestly compared to how bad in game chat use to be, the whole Big Brother approach seems a day late and a dollar short.

The big scary part of this is if AI is handling moderation that allows the developer to remove themselves from responsibility, and they can say "I didn't ban you the SJW5000 banned you."

No this isn't going to end well, the generation right behind this current perpetually outraged and offended generation is shaping up to be the polar opposite, combine those with the vast majority of 80"s and 90's gamers and you have a very large demographic. Sure game developers can follow the comic industry and say "we don't want that demographics money" The same thing will happen to gaming that happen'd to comics.

socprogs only gather at what is the trending two minuets of hate; when they move to the next fashionable outrage, developers that bought into this will be left holding the bag, actual gamers have long memories and a penchant for revenge....if you don't believe me have a chat with Bill Roper sometimes.

Please don't bring the whole political thing into this with your sly hints at "SJW" and so forth. It's a spirited and interesting discussion without that stuff.

As to the upcoming generation that is leading this country to true reform in a number of crucial areas: You can bet that they will be the ones to find the solution to toxicity in all its forms and locations, even in games that are an integral part of their lives. They've been inspirational to those of us who perhaps dozed in complacency for too long.

As for Kaplan, perhaps "in the day" he was a toxic player. But we all grow, learn and change. I'd hate to be judged now solely on the things I did in years past.

This is the first generation that's fighting for less rights and privileges. And to all the people who fought, died and sacrificed soo much to keep our rights and privileges must be turning over in their graves and are crying each and everyday seeing what our once great country is turning into. Less rights more restrictions is not progress it's socialism and I remember we used stand up and say we are AMERICANS AND WE WONT STAND FOR THIS SHIT! Now we are allowing children to get on tv and tell us how horrible we are for wanting to keep our rights.

Or just perhaps, my friend, that this is a more enlightened, broad-minded inclusive generation....sorta like the baby boomers used to be in the 60s. And let's not forget that many of the founding fathers were teens to mid-30 somethings. Change comes through the young. If you can't handle it, get out of the way.

[Deleted User] · April 2018

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Gazimoff · April 2018

nk362y said:

I remember the old saying treat others like you want to be treated. If someone acts like an asshole then they get the same back from me. Instead of claiming victimhood then defend yourself with words or blockers and ignore lists that's what they are there for. Don't go crying to mommy stand up and show them you wont be pushed around

This doesn't work.

Game developers that follow this route end up with a core niche of players who gradually burn out because they're constantly screaming at each other. The game itself develops a reputation for assholery, and everyone else gives it a wide berth. Before you know it, the game withers and dies, and the jerks have to find a new game to play.

It doesn't make business sense.

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