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Developers sitting next to each other

Playing an mmorpg with a group of friends sitting right next to you is totally different than playing with strangers. 


Tolerance levels and communication are complete opposite's.  In fact you have several different levels of tolerance and variables. With watching every Pantheon live stream, I think to my self this "isn't realistic" to public grouping.  Where is the blame game when things go wrong ?

It's actually nice at times when things go wrong in a perfect world.  This is part of the challenge !..... But tell that to the group when the Tank can't hold agro no matter what, or the Healer gets incapacitated because he's turned into a frog.  Tempers instantly fire, then you have the blame game, people start leaving and groups vote to kick, best case a few nasty words are spoken and the group continues on.  This puts pressure on the party and what started as fun is now survival to make it through the event. 


Many of us have that special guild.  Many have a group of friends.  But I'm asking everyone to think unselfish about the mass population.  Pantheon is about grouping, but it needs to be fun too !....... A certain amount of stress is expected.  Groups would like to push limits to see just how well oiled they could be. 

Important:
People say it's a Niche game.  This meaning a group game, millions would love a "group game".  I'm starting to think Pantheon will be for an "extremely small narrow niche" where it wouldn't survive.  Yes, for those know me,  I made some bold statements that everyone will be playing.  As time goes on, I'm starting to worry about any population at all.

I hope it's pre-alpha balancing !!!
I hope Visionary Realms can find that balance !!!




Something to note: 
Voice chat helps.  More often than not typing causes miscommunication, more so when tempers are high.  Guilds will be using voice chat programs.  But tell a PUG of six to set up a channel is impossible..... Pantheon needs it's own voice chat !

    
GdemamiThunder073
«134

Comments

  • jpedrote52jpedrote52 Member UncommonPosts: 112
    edited April 2018
    Pantheon has integrated voice chat........
    delete5230
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,737
    Pantheon has integrated voice chat........

    I know, I guess I'm just trying to needlessly stress how important it is.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,069
    Keep calm, go and have an Easter egg and hopefully the game will turn out how you want it to. For now like all these up and coming Indie MMOs, lets just hope for the best. :)
    delete5230craftseekerGdemamiMrMelGibsonCendharia
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,670
    Scot said:
    Keep calm, go and have an Easter egg and hopefully the game will turn out how you want it to. For now like all these up and coming Indie MMOs, lets just hope for the best. :)
    Someone hid his Easter eggs, I think.


    delete5230ScotKyleranLackingMMOMrMelGibson

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,670
    Playing an mmorpg with a group of friends sitting right next to you is totally different than playing with strangers. 


    Tolerance levels and communication are complete opposite's.  In fact you have several different levels of tolerance and variables. With watching every Pantheon live stream, I think to my self this "isn't realistic" to public grouping.  Where is the blame game when things go wrong ?

    It's actually nice at times when things go wrong in a perfect world.  This is part of the challenge !..... But tell that to the group when the Tank can't hold agro no matter what, or the Healer gets incapacitated because he's turned into a frog.  Tempers instantly fire, then you have the blame game, people start leaving and groups vote to kick, best case a few nasty words are spoken and the group continues on.  This puts pressure on the party and what started as fun is now survival to make it through the event. 


    Many of us have that special guild.  Many have a group of friends.  But I'm asking everyone to think unselfish about the mass population.  Pantheon is about grouping, but it needs to be fun too !....... A certain amount of stress is expected.  Groups would like to push limits to see just how well oiled they could be. 

    Important:
    People say it's a Niche game.  This meaning a group game, millions would love a "group game".  I'm starting to think Pantheon will be for an "extremely small narrow niche" where it wouldn't survive.  Yes, for those know me,  I made some bold statements that everyone will be playing.  As time goes on, I'm starting to worry about any population at all.

    I hope it's pre-alpha balancing !!!
    I hope Visionary Realms can find that balance !!!




    Something to note: 
    Voice chat helps.  More often than not typing causes miscommunication, more so when tempers are high.  Guilds will be using voice chat programs.  But tell a PUG of six to set up a channel is impossible..... Pantheon needs it's own voice chat !

        
    One of the things I asked for in the 'What do you want to see in a future stream' thread was to show the group operating without voice chat.  Most people still use the keyboard to communicate, even in games with integrated voice chat.  I would like to see how easy it would be to coordinate a normal group in conditions that can be expected in the real world.  Have the developers log in from home, so they can't just yell over the cubicle or see that Joe is afk.  Text communication while playing would give us an indication of how much button mashing and mouse clicking is going on off-screen.

    Numerous people have complained in various threads about voice chat.  Even venerable old EQ1 has integrated voice chat that few, if any use.  I really don't know that voice chat is a highly desirable feature.  I know I don't want to hear some random teen exploring the limits of their NSFW vocabulary.



    delete5230MrMelGibsonCendharia

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    Pantheon doesn't need integrated voice chat. There are already many voice chat providers (mumble, discord, etc) and that is what everyone uses nowadays. Even in games that have integrated voice chat, the players usually use third party voice chat programs instead. 
    ScotMrMelGibsonkjempffSiugCendharia

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,069
    Amathe said:
    Pantheon doesn't need integrated voice chat. There are already many voice chat providers (mumble, discord, etc) and that is what everyone uses nowadays. Even in games that have integrated voice chat, the players usually use third party voice chat programs instead. 

    Yes, not sure I would have this up there as a priority, in fact for me Discord can be irritating but it is also invaluable.
    Cendharia
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,670
    Scot said:
    Amathe said:
    Pantheon doesn't need integrated voice chat. There are already many voice chat providers (mumble, discord, etc) and that is what everyone uses nowadays. Even in games that have integrated voice chat, the players usually use third party voice chat programs instead. 

    Yes, not sure I would have this up there as a priority, in fact for me Discord can be irritating but it is also invaluable.
    I'd much rather the game have voice chat included.  I don't want a third part application running while I'm playing, especially one that might be exchanging data with another application.  That's a bigger potential security issue in my book.

    But voice chat in general needs more and better tools for mundane things, like muting select voices.  A balancing control to adjust volumes of individuals in a channel would be great, as would secondary audio channels.  Listen to the raid leaders, chat with raid and group members independently.



    Thunder073

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 8,577
    Pantheon has integrated voice chat........
    Actually not all of us like voice chat....I dont want to hear someones kid crying or some guy yelling at his girlfriend or wife while I am playing...
    MendelThunder073ScotTheScavengerMidPrincessGaendric
  • TwoTubesTwoTubes Member UncommonPosts: 315
    They are mostly low lvls in the streams.  As we can tell, the content isn't extremely difficult, they don't work well together, and they don't play their characters well.  Once a player is onto higher lvl content they have likely met a group of players who they trust that they can group with.  I'm sure many of us remember playing mmos before they turned easy in 2004 and later.  You simply can't do anything challenging with players who play poorly.  We will all have our core group of friends who are competent players by then I'm sure.  If not we will be stuck grouping in the handful of "easy" exp areas that are pug-able.  That is simply how challenging games work out.  I'm still hoping Pantheon delivers on that promise.
    AnOldFart
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,737
    Scot said:
    Amathe said:
    Pantheon doesn't need integrated voice chat. There are already many voice chat providers (mumble, discord, etc) and that is what everyone uses nowadays. Even in games that have integrated voice chat, the players usually use third party voice chat programs instead. 

    Yes, not sure I would have this up there as a priority, in fact for me Discord can be irritating but it is also invaluable.

    Only problem with Discord or other voice chat programs is pick-up-groups can't easily use them, therefore they don't try.  It's best as a common easy to use channel set up in game. 
    MendelSinsai
  • jpedrote52jpedrote52 Member UncommonPosts: 112
    Pantheon has integrated voice chat........
    Actually not all of us like voice chat....I dont want to hear someones kid crying or some guy yelling at his girlfriend or wife while I am playing...
    Then don't use voice chat, simple as that.
    TheScavengerAnOldFartpostlarval
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,670
    Pantheon has integrated voice chat........
    Actually not all of us like voice chat....I dont want to hear someones kid crying or some guy yelling at his girlfriend or wife while I am playing...
    Then don't use voice chat, simple as that.
    What's wrong with wanting to see the game in action without voice chat before it's time to open the wallet?  They've told us how complicated and involved their game was.  Does that translate into massive button pushing that prevents even the most adept to be unable to communicate while playing?  All they have *shown* is voice chat.  Let us see it with text-only communications like a normal pickup group would experience.




    TheScavenger

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • TwoTubesTwoTubes Member UncommonPosts: 315
    edited April 2018
    Mendel said:
      Let us see it with text-only communications like a normal pickup group would experience.

    I'm afraid normal pugs will use voice chat.  It will be integrated.  Of course you don't have to use it but, if you think it won't be limiting to not use it to some extent (at least to listen if not to talk), I have a feeling you might be disappointed.



  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    I try very hard to treat each person like i would anyone,so it doesn't matter to me if friends or not.
    Real life friends i have gamed with are good people anyhow,so i wouldn't have to treat them special or anything.

    To me it still has to be about the game itself first and foremost because without a good game design,i won't need to worry about anything else because i won't play a bad game.
    This team has NEVER shown me the ability to get outside that very small box,so until i see it i won't believe it.

    These mmorpg's started basically around 1999 or so became popular of course when DSL became popular around 2000-2003.My point is MOST al of us have played the exact same design over and over and over,i am not about to do it again at this point,it is just too boring same old different skin.

    So i need to see a LOT's of different ideas for each system and there is lots of room to improve in those areas without getting into total nonsense.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Pr3sid3ntSkr00bPr3sid3ntSkr00b Member UncommonPosts: 53
    In game voice chat has led to some of the most hilarious moments in games like Rust.  Mmorpgs, not so much. But it helps on console mmos like ESO. Just don't really see the need for it on pc.
  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 566
    I'm not sure I'm following the logic here.. Your wanting a dev STREAM with no one talking just playing. The point of dev streams would be negated at that point. It really would "show" much of anything because when your playing with people you know the dynamics are still there. What your wanting to see is how a pug would work in a game like this. Again its not the point of a dev stream, things like that we will see once the nda is lifted and people show footage they have and so on.

    I guess growing up playing eq before ts, vent, discord and the others were around its not such a big deal to me but it will be more than ok when there is a full server and a random group comes together, they will survive.. or at least progress with a few deaths maybe :-)
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,069
    Scot said:
    Amathe said:
    Pantheon doesn't need integrated voice chat. There are already many voice chat providers (mumble, discord, etc) and that is what everyone uses nowadays. Even in games that have integrated voice chat, the players usually use third party voice chat programs instead. 

    Yes, not sure I would have this up there as a priority, in fact for me Discord can be irritating but it is also invaluable.

    Only problem with Discord or other voice chat programs is pick-up-groups can't easily use them, therefore they don't try.  It's best as a common easy to use channel set up in game. 

    That's a fair point, I guess I don't use PUG's that much.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,737
    I'm not sure I'm following the logic here.. Your wanting a dev STREAM with no one talking just playing. The point of dev streams would be negated at that point. It really would "show" much of anything because when your playing with people you know the dynamics are still there. What your wanting to see is how a pug would work in a game like this. Again its not the point of a dev stream, things like that we will see once the nda is lifted and people show footage they have and so on.

    I guess growing up playing eq before ts, vent, discord and the others were around its not such a big deal to me but it will be more than ok when there is a full server and a random group comes together, they will survive.. or at least progress with a few deaths maybe :-)

    I want a dev stream with no one talking ?.... Where the hell did you get this from ?  

    I'm saying it's a lot easer to play a game when developers are making a game in perfect conditions and their nice to each other......Not until the very end did I say anything about voice, it was a side note, and others ran with it. 

    Read it again !
    Mendel
  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 2,096
    Honestly don't see this game being anywhere near difficult enough to need voice chat in most situations.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,737
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    Amathe said:
    Pantheon doesn't need integrated voice chat. There are already many voice chat providers (mumble, discord, etc) and that is what everyone uses nowadays. Even in games that have integrated voice chat, the players usually use third party voice chat programs instead. 

    Yes, not sure I would have this up there as a priority, in fact for me Discord can be irritating but it is also invaluable.

    Only problem with Discord or other voice chat programs is pick-up-groups can't easily use them, therefore they don't try.  It's best as a common easy to use channel set up in game. 

    That's a fair point, I guess I don't use PUG's that much.

    Thank you for understanding this, 

    Seems no one could understand this point even after they play mmoprgs for years. 

    Many times I play mmorpgs with six co-workers.  Often we have only two or three on at any given time.  Then we have to recruit strangers.  

    Has anyone ever played where half the group is on voice ?.... It's totally unfair to the ones that are not !.....In fact it doesn't work at all.

    The voice chat has to be integrated into the game for everyone to simply click on.

     

    This is a wide spread problem for millions of potential players.  Most here only think of themselves and their nice little niche groups they have.  

    This isn't only me talking, I'm speaking for millions !
     


    @Scot ;
    On this site they're about 25 recognizable names that are heavy posters (ones that stand out) 
    Of them very few actually get it..... Meaning they think outside the box and think beyond themselves.  You're one of them, I always thought this.   

    I want this game to work and excel for MILLIONS, 
    I want Brad and Visionary Realms to be successful and be rich, they seem to be consumed with their work, I think they deserve this.  I'm blunt because I care.  
    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,441
    One does not simply just "PUG" in Mordo....er Pantheon.

    ;)
    ScotTorval

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,663
    I remember this happened in LotRO a long time ago when it was quite popular still before F2P and stuff. I was playing with my regular two friends but we did not use the built in chat because one of my friends who I suspected was masquerading as a girl did not want to be found out. It ended badly with the other guy in my group finding out ...that is another story.

    So we got some random people to join us and one of them started using chat and I and my other male friend did while the masquerading one did not. Aside from the fact it was also dependent on where you were playing from and it sounded quite bad with echos (my horribly squeeky voice I sound like some kid online no one would guess I'm a granny) and such one of the random PUG person was a little upset.

    He said he loved the game but lately so many groups wanted to use voice chat and he did not want to and having to explain each time and the awkward silence each explanation wrought made it more and more difficult for him to log on. Of course this was in in text and my other friend said yes that was why he/she played with us all the time too and that he could join us too as a regular so he can continue playing.

    Sometimes features do not encourage grouping at all and can even end in people quitting.
    TorvalTheScavenger

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,670
    I'm not sure I'm following the logic here.. Your wanting a dev STREAM with no one talking just playing. The point of dev streams would be negated at that point. It really would "show" much of anything because when your playing with people you know the dynamics are still there. What your wanting to see is how a pug would work in a game like this. Again its not the point of a dev stream, things like that we will see once the nda is lifted and people show footage they have and so on.

    I guess growing up playing eq before ts, vent, discord and the others were around its not such a big deal to me but it will be more than ok when there is a full server and a random group comes together, they will survive.. or at least progress with a few deaths maybe :-)

    I want a dev stream with no one talking ?.... Where the hell did you get this from ?  

    I'm saying it's a lot easer to play a game when developers are making a game in perfect conditions and their nice to each other......Not until the very end did I say anything about voice, it was a side note, and others ran with it. 

    Read it again !
    Exactly.  No one is asking for a totally silent stream, but they've already got a narrator to comment on the things being shown.  They could even keep a mic on one of the developers for additional insight.  But, let's cut down on some of the developer-to-developer chat used to coordinate and plan the game play.  It doesn't even need to be an entire stream focusing on text-based chat, even 30 minutes could give us a good indication of the mechanics.  Show the game in a situation likely to be found in the real-world, not a lab.

    VR made several claims about how involved and engaging the game play was.  Show us that this does or doesn't equate to mashing a lot of buttons to make the combat work.   When they can't text chat while fighting, the whole 'complex' game play thing will show itself or not, leading to further questions.  It has always been a simple request, really.




    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    kitarad said:

     It ended badly with the other guy in my group finding out ...that is another story.
    This story sounds a lot more interesting than this feeble thread. Tell us how it ends! :) 
    Kyleran

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

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