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Let the pre-Alpha cash shop items flow...

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    Tiller said:


    8 months average now.  Have fun.
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.
    An expensive subscription fee ranging from 3 to 12 months looks like.  Instead of the usual $15 a month fee charged by most MMO's.  He compares the fee to going to the movies when it should be compared to other MMO's mostly charges to play IMO.  It's not lets go to the movies or play an MMO.
    Tell that to my wife, she is always telling me to stop playing my MMO and take her to the movies.

    ;)
    NeutralEvil

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    Tiller said:
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.

    This thread seems to have veered way off topic, however there is some strong misconception that needs to be cleared up

    Your subscription is not RNG based.

    RNG, if I'm not mistaken means Random Number Generated

    In order for your toon to lose any "spirit" (2 days of play time for a pleb and more for nobles) you would have to suffer what is called a "coup de grace". Which is an act taken after your character has been knocked out

    From my understanding you can fight someone and if you lose you are "knocked out" (which does not cost any spirit loss AT ALL). At that point they could, if they wanted, loot only *some* of your possessions. And they could do a "coup de grace" (this act is what causes the spirit loss or loss of max lifespan) in order to rip your soul from your body and send you into the spirit realm. That would give them access to loot more of your items (the exact mechanics on this haven't been hashed out because everything is still in process)

    Most crafters imho would be closer to the 12 month max because they *should* rarely be seeing any kind of combat or suffer spirit loss

    Then you have the reckless adventurer or deviant who loses their spirit quicker than a pissed off girlfriend sending a text

    It's between these demographics of the super careful, and the super risky that you'd see an 8 month median. What the average lifespan *will* be though? Well, only time can tell us that

    One thing is certain though, your lifespan will not be *RNG Based*, it will be 12 months max and shorter depending on the amount of risk you decide to take

    mystichaze
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 480
    Tiller said:


    8 months average now.  Have fun.
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.
    An expensive subscription fee ranging from 3 to 12 months looks like.  Instead of the usual $15 a month fee charged by most MMO's.  He compares the fee to going to the movies when it should be compared to other MMO's mostly charges to play IMO.  It's not lets go to the movies or play an MMO.
    Sorry why is it expensive? compared to f2p yes but otherwise even at the 3 month mark it' $12 as @Kyleran pointed out.

    AnOldFart said:
    Tiller said:


    8 months average now.  Have fun.
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.
    It's based on the amount of times you are killed I believe. So everyone starts at 12 months and every death (with no other modifier) is -2 days.

    I'm sure that's right but I need to keep reading up so if anyone knows better please say
    I believe the amount of life you lose is variable with 2 days being the lowest.

    That' why I said no modifiers but ty for the confirmation as I said still learning the ins and outs
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200
    Kyleran said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Tiller said:


    8 months average now.  Have fun.
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.
    It's based on the amount of times you are killed I believe. So everyone starts at 12 months and every death (with no other modifier) is -2 days.

    I'm sure that's right but I need to keep reading up so if anyone knows better please say
    I believe the amount of life you lose is variable with 2 days being the lowest.

    Yeah  I suppose if your character made a career killing kings and nobles their lifespan might be in weeks.


    Yeah I think that silly concept has to go.  If I kill the enemy leader why should I be penalized and cause me to lose more of my life (potentially weeks) if I die?

    I really think the whole concept of tying monetization to a pain point is a poor one.  When people get griefed in most games it sucks, but here it literally costs the person money to get griefed.   Yes potentially it could cost the griefer more... but they get off on that.

    MendelKyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108

    And I think the subscription model is a bad plan myself

    That's the main reason I quite playing UO and never really liked WOW. I don't want to have to pay every single month to play a game that I already purchased

    At least with this business model you get more control how much or little you spend. And even on the riskiest side of endeavors you would end up paying less than what other MMOs charge for their subscriptions

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,419
    Kyleran said:
    AnOldFart said:
    Tiller said:


    8 months average now.  Have fun.
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.
    It's based on the amount of times you are killed I believe. So everyone starts at 12 months and every death (with no other modifier) is -2 days.

    I'm sure that's right but I need to keep reading up so if anyone knows better please say
    I believe the amount of life you lose is variable with 2 days being the lowest.

    Yeah  I suppose if your character made a career killing kings and nobles their lifespan might be in weeks.


    Yeah I think that silly concept has to go.  If I kill the enemy leader why should I be penalized and cause me to lose more of my life (potentially weeks) if I die?

    I really think the whole concept of tying monetization to a pain point is a poor one.  When people get griefed in most games it sucks, but here it literally costs the person money to get griefed.   Yes potentially it could cost the griefer more... but they get off on that.

    Judging how much and when I have to pay by attaching this to how many times someone else pushes a 'Coup' button is a horrific design idea.  It is totally out of the players control.  I do not think any group of developers, let alone these, could balance such a system.

    It will not surprise me to see that people are needing to buy new souls/sparks after a week of heavy play.  How many people will this drive away?  Can any company afford to accept customer losses like this?

    I'm sure the developers are looking at this and thinking 'it will drive revenue'.  If a store could push a button and cause you to purchase something, how much repetition would it take before the average person would simply not go into that store?

    To drive this analogy a bit deeper, how many think these developers are above the temptation to generate their own characters with massive advantages and slaughter players left and right to drive soul/spark sales?  It would be very easy to imagine a Knights Templar type organization appearing in this game.




    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    edited March 2018

    During a war you can only suffer a spirit loss once every 2.5 hours, which would basically be a maximum of 10 times per day, given you are "coup de graced" exactly on that 2.5 hour mark.

    Given that scenario you would lose 20 "irl" days per day, and after a week of this happening see a loss of 140 days, which, if my math is right, would take more than a week before you would buy another spark

    And this is with the absolute max scenario mind you, with perfect timing on your deaths as well

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108

    As far as how to mitigate griefing, well, we'll need the actual game in hand and the mechanics tested before we can truly start to have a discussion on what the potential abuses will be and how to combat those

    Up until then, it's all still speculation

    mystichaze
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509

    And I think the subscription model is a bad plan myself

    That's the main reason I quite playing UO and never really liked WOW. I don't want to have to pay every single month to play a game that I already purchased

    At least with this business model you get more control how much or little you spend. And even on the riskiest side of endeavors you would end up paying less than what other MMOs charge for their subscriptions

    Not really. One thing I'm not a fan of is your character ages even you aren't logging in.

    This makes it a subscription system in the end, just one with a variable rate which can range somewhere between $3 and $12 per month for most users. (Based on spark costs of $35 and the estimates on character life given previously)

    I don't mind the cost, but the aging / dieing can cost me my progression and perhaps even all of my assets if I decide to take an extended break.

    It does however offer enterprising players to create a "secure" character" storage facility that they can charge others for.

    All depends on how everything is delivered.




    NeutralEvil

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,419

    During a war you can only suffer a spirit loss once every 2.5 hours, which would basically be a maximum of 10 times per day, given you are "coup de graced" exactly on that 2.5 hour mark.

    Given that scenario you would lose 20 "irl" days per day, and after a week of this happening see a loss of 140 days, which, if my math is right, would take more than a week before you would buy another spark

    And this is with the absolute max scenario mind you, with perfect timing on your deaths as well

    That may be what is on paper (website) right now, but implementation can change many, many things.  What if they change it to 2.5 minutes, or -20 per death or the maximum number of 'coups' per soul?  How these numbers are set can/will change the game dynamics dramatically.  The developers alone control how quickly a player will need buy 'stuff' from them.  That's going directly after my wallet.

    Let's see what the final game actually contains.  Using pre-release documentation as a definitive source is never a solid idea -- too much can change as the game is implemented.

    Do you really trust these developers not to go for your wallet by manipulating the game design?  I know I don't.



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    Kyleran said:

    And I think the subscription model is a bad plan myself

    That's the main reason I quite playing UO and never really liked WOW. I don't want to have to pay every single month to play a game that I already purchased

    At least with this business model you get more control how much or little you spend. And even on the riskiest side of endeavors you would end up paying less than what other MMOs charge for their subscriptions

    Not really. One thing I'm not a fan of is your character ages even you aren't logging in.

    This makes it a subscription system in the end, just one with a variable rate which can range somewhere between $3 and $12 per month for most users. (Based on spark costs of $35 and the estimates on character life given previously)

    I don't mind the cost, but the aging / dieing can cost me my progression and perhaps even all of my assets if I decide to take an extended break.

    It does however offer enterprising players to create a "secure" character" storage facility that they can charge others for.

    All depends on how everything is delivered.




    I've seen you suggest that "secure storage" idea in the past and even the option to "stow" a character for a given amount of time too (I think it was you that had suggested this?)

    And I think that is a pretty cool idea if someone is going on a trip or will need to take an extended break

    I wonder how hard a mechanic like that would take to be built into the game, or if that would be a cool player-driven "banking" idea (putting a lot of faith in your fellow Mann there!)

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    Yeah I think that silly concept has to go.  If I kill the enemy leader why should I be penalized and cause me to lose more of my life (potentially weeks) if I die?




    Does Regicide not carry a higher penalty than run-of-the-mill Homicide?
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200

    And I think the subscription model is a bad plan myself

    That's the main reason I quite playing UO and never really liked WOW. I don't want to have to pay every single month to play a game that I already purchased

    At least with this business model you get more control how much or little you spend. And even on the riskiest side of endeavors you would end up paying less than what other MMOs charge for their subscriptions

    The current setup is just a variable priced subscription that you pay for up front but don’t know exactly what time you are buying.  Yes, in theory it’s lower than a traditional sub BUT most folks don’t play a game for a year at a time.  If you are going to play for 3.5 months than you are paying $10/ month which is not too far from the norm for a pre-paid sub.  If you play for a year you got a great deal.

    But the absolute negative is that other people’s actions can cause YOU to lose money.  If Seamus McCrotchface kills you, he has cost you money. That my friend is a griefers dream. Especially if you can do it while the other person is offline (not sure on the current expectation there) but even when logged in people will freak out.  Not only have they cost you money, but also shortened your life which means starting over quicker.

    And dont even think about taking a few month break... your character will be dead when you come back. And just to get back into the game you need to pony up the $35 (and maybe a $10 SoulPack to make a new character) just to get back into the game.  That’s a barrier to re-entry that doesn’t need to exist.

     You can still have permadeath and aging as a mechanic without tying money to it.  This has been andf continues to be a fatal flaw in the design.

    They need X money to run the game. Just decouple it from the pain point of dying.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108

    And I think the subscription model is a bad plan myself

    That's the main reason I quite playing UO and never really liked WOW. I don't want to have to pay every single month to play a game that I already purchased

    At least with this business model you get more control how much or little you spend. And even on the riskiest side of endeavors you would end up paying less than what other MMOs charge for their subscriptions

    The current setup is just a variable priced subscription that you pay for up front but don’t know exactly what time you are buying.  Yes, in theory it’s lower than a traditional sub BUT most folks don’t play a game for a year at a time.  If you are going to play for 3.5 months than you are paying $10/ month which is not too far from the norm for a pre-paid sub.  If you play for a year you got a great deal.

    But the absolute negative is that other people’s actions can cause YOU to lose money.  If Seamus McCrotchface kills you, he has cost you money. That my friend is a griefers dream. Especially if you can do it while the other person is offline (not sure on the current expectation there) but even when logged in people will freak out.  Not only have they cost you money, but also shortened your life which means starting over quicker.

    And dont even think about taking a few month break... your character will be dead when you come back. And just to get back into the game you need to pony up the $35 (and maybe a $10 SoulPack to make a new character) just to get back into the game.  That’s a barrier to re-entry that doesn’t need to exist.

     You can still have permadeath and aging as a mechanic without tying money to it.  This has been andf continues to be a fatal flaw in the design.

    They need X money to run the game. Just decouple it from the pain point of dying.

    I agree with most of your sentiment for sure, and this whole aspect of the game it what sets it apart from traditional games


    The only part that I want to point out which isn't totally accurate is the "possibly buying a soul pack at $10 to make a new character"

    You don't lose souls. The souls you get when you buy the game are forever your souls to use and just need a Spark to "activate" them

    You'd only buy a soul pack if you choose to buy a pack for whatever reasons you may have for buying one. You can use the same soul you left off with a few months ago if you wanted to do that in your scenario

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200
    Yeah I think that silly concept has to go.  If I kill the enemy leader why should I be penalized and cause me to lose more of my life (potentially weeks) if I die?




    Does Regicide not carry a higher penalty than run-of-the-mill Homicide?
    Not by any “life mechanic”.  If I kill an enemy leader and then a week later I get killed by a bandit why should my death penalty be higher than anyone else’s?

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200
    edited March 2018

    And I think the subscription model is a bad plan myself

    That's the main reason I quite playing UO and never really liked WOW. I don't want to have to pay every single month to play a game that I already purchased

    At least with this business model you get more control how much or little you spend. And even on the riskiest side of endeavors you would end up paying less than what other MMOs charge for their subscriptions

    The current setup is just a variable priced subscription that you pay for up front but don’t know exactly what time you are buying.  Yes, in theory it’s lower than a traditional sub BUT most folks don’t play a game for a year at a time.  If you are going to play for 3.5 months than you are paying $10/ month which is not too far from the norm for a pre-paid sub.  If you play for a year you got a great deal.

    But the absolute negative is that other people’s actions can cause YOU to lose money.  If Seamus McCrotchface kills you, he has cost you money. That my friend is a griefers dream. Especially if you can do it while the other person is offline (not sure on the current expectation there) but even when logged in people will freak out.  Not only have they cost you money, but also shortened your life which means starting over quicker.

    And dont even think about taking a few month break... your character will be dead when you come back. And just to get back into the game you need to pony up the $35 (and maybe a $10 SoulPack to make a new character) just to get back into the game.  That’s a barrier to re-entry that doesn’t need to exist.

     You can still have permadeath and aging as a mechanic without tying money to it.  This has been andf continues to be a fatal flaw in the design.

    They need X money to run the game. Just decouple it from the pain point of dying.

    I agree with most of your sentiment for sure, and this whole aspect of the game it what sets it apart from traditional games


    The only part that I want to point out which isn't totally accurate is the "possibly buying a soul pack at $10 to make a new character"

    You don't lose souls. The souls you get when you buy the game are forever your souls to use and just need a Spark to "activate" them

    You'd only buy a soul pack if you choose to buy a pack for whatever reasons you may have for buying one. You can use the same soul you left off with a few months ago if you wanted to do that in your scenario

    I said possibly because if I stopped playing my old character there is probably a reason.  Maybe this time I want to try and be a Blacksmith or a Devient instead of a soldier...  and want a soul tailored for them.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108

    And I think the subscription model is a bad plan myself

    That's the main reason I quite playing UO and never really liked WOW. I don't want to have to pay every single month to play a game that I already purchased

    At least with this business model you get more control how much or little you spend. And even on the riskiest side of endeavors you would end up paying less than what other MMOs charge for their subscriptions

    The current setup is just a variable priced subscription that you pay for up front but don’t know exactly what time you are buying.  Yes, in theory it’s lower than a traditional sub BUT most folks don’t play a game for a year at a time.  If you are going to play for 3.5 months than you are paying $10/ month which is not too far from the norm for a pre-paid sub.  If you play for a year you got a great deal.

    But the absolute negative is that other people’s actions can cause YOU to lose money.  If Seamus McCrotchface kills you, he has cost you money. That my friend is a griefers dream. Especially if you can do it while the other person is offline (not sure on the current expectation there) but even when logged in people will freak out.  Not only have they cost you money, but also shortened your life which means starting over quicker.

    And dont even think about taking a few month break... your character will be dead when you come back. And just to get back into the game you need to pony up the $35 (and maybe a $10 SoulPack to make a new character) just to get back into the game.  That’s a barrier to re-entry that doesn’t need to exist.

     You can still have permadeath and aging as a mechanic without tying money to it.  This has been andf continues to be a fatal flaw in the design.

    They need X money to run the game. Just decouple it from the pain point of dying.

    I agree with most of your sentiment for sure, and this whole aspect of the game it what sets it apart from traditional games


    The only part that I want to point out which isn't totally accurate is the "possibly buying a soul pack at $10 to make a new character"

    You don't lose souls. The souls you get when you buy the game are forever your souls to use and just need a Spark to "activate" them

    You'd only buy a soul pack if you choose to buy a pack for whatever reasons you may have for buying one. You can use the same soul you left off with a few months ago if you wanted to do that in your scenario

    I said possibly because if I stopped playing my old character there is probably a reason.  Maybe this time I want to try and be a Blacksmith or a Devient instead of a soldier...  
    There's a big difference on want and need

    You don't *need* a blacksmithing soul to be a blacksmith. I want to make that clear too
    Unlike other MMOs where if you make a "wizard* you can only do wizardly things

    In CoE any soul can do any skill. You would only buy a soul pack if you *wanted* to
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200

    And I think the subscription model is a bad plan myself

    That's the main reason I quite playing UO and never really liked WOW. I don't want to have to pay every single month to play a game that I already purchased

    At least with this business model you get more control how much or little you spend. And even on the riskiest side of endeavors you would end up paying less than what other MMOs charge for their subscriptions

    The current setup is just a variable priced subscription that you pay for up front but don’t know exactly what time you are buying.  Yes, in theory it’s lower than a traditional sub BUT most folks don’t play a game for a year at a time.  If you are going to play for 3.5 months than you are paying $10/ month which is not too far from the norm for a pre-paid sub.  If you play for a year you got a great deal.

    But the absolute negative is that other people’s actions can cause YOU to lose money.  If Seamus McCrotchface kills you, he has cost you money. That my friend is a griefers dream. Especially if you can do it while the other person is offline (not sure on the current expectation there) but even when logged in people will freak out.  Not only have they cost you money, but also shortened your life which means starting over quicker.

    And dont even think about taking a few month break... your character will be dead when you come back. And just to get back into the game you need to pony up the $35 (and maybe a $10 SoulPack to make a new character) just to get back into the game.  That’s a barrier to re-entry that doesn’t need to exist.

     You can still have permadeath and aging as a mechanic without tying money to it.  This has been andf continues to be a fatal flaw in the design.

    They need X money to run the game. Just decouple it from the pain point of dying.

    I agree with most of your sentiment for sure, and this whole aspect of the game it what sets it apart from traditional games


    The only part that I want to point out which isn't totally accurate is the "possibly buying a soul pack at $10 to make a new character"

    You don't lose souls. The souls you get when you buy the game are forever your souls to use and just need a Spark to "activate" them

    You'd only buy a soul pack if you choose to buy a pack for whatever reasons you may have for buying one. You can use the same soul you left off with a few months ago if you wanted to do that in your scenario

    I said possibly because if I stopped playing my old character there is probably a reason.  Maybe this time I want to try and be a Blacksmith or a Devient instead of a soldier...  
    There's a big difference on want and need

    You don't *need* a blacksmithing soul to be a blacksmith. I want to make that clear too
    Unlike other MMOs where if you make a "wizard* you can only do wizardly things

    In CoE any soul can do any skill. You would only buy a soul pack if you *wanted* to
    Thus the “maybe”.  

    But if I start with a “Blacksmith” soul it will start out better at Blacksmithimg than my old soldier soul.  Yes I can spend time bending the soldier to a Blacksmith but if I stopped playing the game once before the best chance for me to enjoy the game is probably to get setup for success as opposed to pushing my square peg until it can fit into the circle.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

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    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    I only point out any soul can do any skill to dispel confusion. A lot of people reading may not know this and your post didn't include that info so that's why I wanted to point it out
    Kyleran
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200
    edited March 2018
    I only point out any soul can do any skill to dispel confusion. A lot of people reading may not know this and your post didn't include that info so that's why I wanted to point it out
    There is "doing anything" and then there is "better suited to do".  So to avoid any misunderstandings I want to clear up any confusion.   Not all souls will start out being able to do all things equally.   If you work at it you can push a soul in the direction you want by using certain skills.  But of course, if your soul was already pre-disposed to certain traits that would be easier, and faster.

    So if I spend a life as a soldier... in my next life I would be better as a soldier, and if I wanted to be a Blacksmith I could do so and push into new skills, or I could buy a new SoulPack based on Blacksmith and start faster and easier.




    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    NeutralEvil

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 480
    A quick point on spirit loss, you all assuming the griefer is going to coup you every single time.

    I want to put out a suggestion that yes they could do that and cost themselves RL money when they could just knock you out and steal all your goods with (I believe) no spirit penalty to themselves.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    I only point out any soul can do any skill to dispel confusion. A lot of people reading may not know this and your post didn't include that info so that's why I wanted to point it out
    There is "doing anything" and then there is "better suited to do".  So to avoid any misunderstandings I want to clear up any confusion.   Not all souls will start out being able to do all things equally.   If you work at it you can push a soul in the direction you want by using certain skills.  But of course, if your soul was already pre-disposed to certain traits that would be easier, and faster.

    So if I spend a life as a soldier... in my next life I would be better as a soldier, and if I wanted to be a Blacksmith I could do so and push into new skills, or I could buy a new SoulPack based on Blacksmith and start faster and easier.




    I see you have never played games like this.. 

    I'll give you this clue for free..

    or in your next life.. you can be a blacksmith that is "better" at combat.. and.. well in a game of Open PvP.. let the value of that sink in.
    NeutralEvil
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,419
    AnOldFart said:
    A quick point on spirit loss, you all assuming the griefer is going to coup you every single time.

    I want to put out a suggestion that yes they could do that and cost themselves RL money when they could just knock you out and steal all your goods with (I believe) no spirit penalty to themselves.
    Since we don't know the exact final costs for 'coup' and being 'couped', it may not be equal.  Even if it is equal, there are plenty of jerks out there who are going to 'push the button' every single chance they get.  Unfortunately, this game seems to be trying to appeal to those type of players.

    How many fights are going to be 1-on-1, anyway?  My guess that there will be a lot more 4-on-1 fights, which really ups the chances that one of the 4 is going to 'coup' that 1.  They've already discussed 300-on-300 fights (which they probably won't have the technology do implement).  If you're the 1st one on the ground in a hoard of enemies, are they all going to let you just lay there, or is one going to be designated to 'coup' people?

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    edited March 2018
    AnOldFart said:
    A quick point on spirit loss, you all assuming the griefer is going to coup you every single time.

    I want to put out a suggestion that yes they could do that and cost themselves RL money when they could just knock you out and steal all your goods with (I believe) no spirit penalty to themselves.
    It's been noted that while you are knocked out that your assailant may only take some of your items I.e. your weapon, maybe coin purse and easily accessible things.

    And if coup de grace'd they could take more things like your armor which wouldn't normally be easy to take from an unconscious foe.

    Still not a TON of info on this just yet because the finer details will be worked out in Alpha/Beta

    Source.   https://www.chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/23502/corpse-looting

    Edited to add source
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    AnOldFart said:
    A quick point on spirit loss, you all assuming the griefer is going to coup you every single time.

    I want to put out a suggestion that yes they could do that and cost themselves RL money when they could just knock you out and steal all your goods with (I believe) no spirit penalty to themselves.
    Almost right. I believe they can do only a quick steal of items in a player's hands and belt in a knockout.

    To loot your armor or pack they must kill you.

    But realize, griefers will go out of their way to cause maximum harm, just for the lulz.

    In EVE there is a large organization called "The Code" whose sole purpose is to torment miners in high sec, the normally "safer" space.

    Code pilots will "suicide gank" unprepared miners sacrificing far more ISK in ship losses than they ever could earn just to hear the tears flow.

    They even have a web site dedicated to their manifesto which tracks their exploits. (Translated into 7 languages) 

    http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html?m=1

    This article is 3 years old  but the Code are still going strong, since 2012.

    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/15/the-new-order-of-eve-online/

    This is not the only example I could give you, griefers have been gleefully tormenting others since MMORPGS and MUDs began.


    NeutralEvil

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