Well it seems you can't have a conversation about having concerns in the coe forums

shifue · March 2018

Just as a heads up i barrowed slapshots one post cause it summed up my concerns and then posted more with it. As i want to hear something more then have faith etc or just chatting around the issue as the dev team has done in my eyes. Needless to say the thread was closed cause one of the high backers trolled it and turned into a trump wannabe conspiracy theorist. here ius the thread let me know if you feel i am wrong or right.

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/24532/i-am-honestly-worried-about-the-state-of-the-game

Slapshot1188 · March 2018

I saw you copied something I posted a few months ago. Funny it was actually upvoted and the troll who was screaming at you was massively downvoted.

In general though... no need to make a thread here to discuss a thread there unless it’s involving the devs themselves. But yeah... we know how it’s treated. They try to say it’s “settled” and don’t bring it up again. That one poor guy who freaked out is probably not going to last long once the real PvP starts...

Just peeked before I hit send and noticed they reopened it. Also... the usual suspects downvoted you now.

Just post your concerns here. Trust me... Caspien reads them. Probably better chance of being seen here than over there anyway.

Wizardry · March 2018

Well my theory is this..

There is no law that bars you from freedom of speech,you can have your opinion.There are laws against certain types of comments/speech but they usually are not relevant when talking about games which have NO self being,they are just a bunch of computer code.

So when people take offense to talking about computer code,i take offense to those people.If they cannot differentiate between living and non living,they are idiots,not worth my time.

So what it ends up being is a lot of defensive postures by those protecting their business no matter how shallow,corrupt or misleading,they will defend it tooth and nail.

Then you get some ..many that think,it is ok because it is their business they should protect it.Well i am fine with that if there is merit,if you are going to belittle a real living person for sake of computer code,you are a callous shallow person.There lies one of the biggest problems in this world,people will degrade other people for sake of $$$.even their own family/friends ,whatever it doesn't matter,all for one ME ME ME.

Forgrimm · March 2018

The thread doesn't look closed to me.

shifue · March 2018

Forgrimm said:

The thread doesn't look closed to me.

It got closed i messaged the mod asking as of why the thread was closed and why was the the member just tossing insults not dealt with instead and threaten to turn it over to soulbound cause 95% of the people where being civil. I just now after getting home saw the message and seen in the post that she stated that it was being reopened.

shifue · March 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

I saw you copied something I posted a few months ago. Funny it was actually upvoted and the troll who was screaming at you was massively downvoted.

In general though... no need to make a thread here to discuss a thread there unless it’s involving the devs themselves. But yeah... we know how it’s treated. They try to say it’s “settled” and don’t bring it up again. That one poor guy who freaked out is probably not going to last long once the real PvP starts...

Just peeked before I hit send and noticed they reopened it. Also... the usual suspects downvoted you now.

Just post your concerns here. Trust me... Caspien reads them. Probably better chance of being seen here than over there anyway.

Yeah i can kinda see what you mean i was "hoping" since that is the term that they like to preach over there. That everyone could be adult and maybe get some kind of real answers other then dodges or a beating around the bush. So i think i will just start posting here from now on indeed as it seems the white knight syndrome is not a toxic.

AnOldFart · March 2018

I am now registered on their site and upvoted this, I am disappointed in the downvoting but I would imagine it's the high level backers friends. Don't worry if it gets released i am sure he eill die quick with an attitude like that.

About your thread though imho i think you got some good replies if you ignore the trolls

Kyleran · March 2018

Rarely are official forums a good place to have contoversial or contentious conversations.

At some point it will be deemed as either trolling, settled, redundant, or beating a dead horse and then closed.

Also, most forums, even this one sometimes don't permit copy / paste of topics from other sites if they feel the subject isn't really in line with their values.

Fortunately we have this site, which is why I pretty much only post discussions on it as they are more tolerant of opposing views and don't over react when posters start disagreeing.

Of course, such freedom to disent gets the site and its community labeled as a bunch of negativity full of "haters" which is the price they pay for permitting some freedom of expression.

cheyane · March 2018

Yes strangely official forums are rarely where you should go to discuss things that are controversial because the rabid fans and their brigade will arrive in force to shut it down. I swear fans of a game are way worse than the critics. You end up not wanting to discuss the issue at all and just walk away from the game.

Scot · March 2018

"Well it seems you can't have a conversation about having concerns in the coe forumS"

Then come to MMORPG.com, there seem to be an awful lot of them on here.

I tend to think we are having a rather lot of hot air being said about a game before it is in any state to get a real idea of what it is like. But that's been the case for nearly every popular new MMO in development we have seen released and I won't pretend I don't put by two pennies in sometimes.

Kyleran · March 2018

Scot said:

"Well it seems you can't have a conversation about having concerns in the coe forumS"

Then come to MMORPG.com, there seem to be an awful lot of them on here.

I tend to think we are having a rather lot of hot air being said about a game before it is in any state to get a real idea of what it is like. But that's been the case for nearly every popular new MMO in development we have seen released and I won't pretend I don't put by two pennies in sometimes.

Sometimes?

C'mon you are in for a pound just like the rest of us.

Slapshot1188 · March 2018

shifue said:

Slapshot1188 said:

I saw you copied something I posted a few months ago. Funny it was actually upvoted and the troll who was screaming at you was massively downvoted.

In general though... no need to make a thread here to discuss a thread there unless it’s involving the devs themselves. But yeah... we know how it’s treated. They try to say it’s “settled” and don’t bring it up again. That one poor guy who freaked out is probably not going to last long once the real PvP starts...

Just peeked before I hit send and noticed they reopened it. Also... the usual suspects downvoted you now.

Just post your concerns here. Trust me... Caspien reads them. Probably better chance of being seen here than over there anyway.

Yeah i can kinda see what you mean i was "hoping" since that is the term that they like to preach over there. That everyone could be adult and maybe get some kind of real answers other then dodges or a beating around the bush. So i think i will just start posting here from now on indeed as it seems the white knight syndrome is not a toxic.

Yeah. Some of them just do not know any better. Like the guy accusing you of lying while he himself is repeatedly saying that CoE has as much funding as Camelot Unchained. Others have stated there were 150,000 sold accounts when there was 16,000. If you live in a bubble you just get everything reflected back at you so it reinforces your thoughts. Group-think is rarely good.

Remember though SBS has the right to create that environment because it’s their house. I have never been banned from an official forum because I always follow their rules. If they want their forums to be an echo-chamber that is their right. As Kyleran eloquently stated above... stay here and have an actual discussion. The SBS guys will still read it and you won’t have to deal with all the negativity over there. Plus, if you create some really insightful posts you earn XP towards getting your Harbinger robe!

NeutralEvil · March 2018

Wow the reaction you got from that one individual was.. Wow

I'm glad to see that *most* were pretty mature in their answers though!

You don't have to hesitate posting on the main CoE forums Shifue, and truly, I'm kinda perplexed why it was originally closed myself

Clearly it should not have been.

Really though, post your concerns anywhere you want. It creates healthy debate! And it helps break that cycle of the echo-chamber

Slapshot1188 · March 2018

Wonder if those folks comparing CoE to CU also know that Camelot Unchained will refund your money if you’re not happy and have done so since the beginning. That’s a game changer for me.

btdt · March 2018

Its funny how the only civil debate is between the people who all agree with each other. Sort of explains why debates are rarely civil.

Forums are full loot OWPVP. It's why the majority of the player base steers clear of them.

If developers truly wanted the player's feedback, they would have a private means to send such information to the developers. No one else can see what you said. No one else can rebut your statements. It is what it is. They have brains... or so we hope.

But they don't do this. They just provide you with an online arena in which to queue up against your fellow players to duel it out.

If everyone agreed, would it be a good game? If they all disagreed? If it was 50/50? Games that are popular have people pissing and moaning in the forums. They piss and moan yet are still playing the game. It's the people who never say a word that they really listen to because they are the ones that just leave if they aren't happy. They don't say why, they just leave. And funny thing is, they leave for reasons often never expressed on the forums. Because the people on the forums aren't looking to leave, they just want to change something. The quiet ones just leave. Which is why such fodder is treated like the OWPVP that it is.

WoW has gone through 12 years of this. 12 years of promises from the developers. 12 years of pissing and moaning on the forums. The only ones that have truly left are those who never said a single word on the forums. They just left. All those who spend even one moment on the forums return time and again. And they know it.

Scot · March 2018

Kyleran said:

Scot said:

"Well it seems you can't have a conversation about having concerns in the coe forumS"

Then come to MMORPG.com, there seem to be an awful lot of them on here.

I tend to think we are having a rather lot of hot air being said about a game before it is in any state to get a real idea of what it is like. But that's been the case for nearly every popular new MMO in development we have seen released and I won't pretend I don't put by two pennies in sometimes.

Sometimes?

C'mon you are in for a pound just like the rest of us.

Hey I am no where near as much in these threads as you guys! I could attach one of them to a balloon and sail across the Atlantic to take a holiday in the US or maybe the West Indies.

Mendel · March 2018

btdt said:

Its funny how the only civil debate is between the people who all agree with each other. Sort of explains why debates are rarely civil.

Forums are full loot OWPVP. It's why the majority of the player base steers clear of them.

If developers truly wanted the player's feedback, they would have a private means to send such information to the developers. No one else can see what you said. No one else can rebut your statements. It is what it is. They have brains... or so we hope.

But they don't do this. They just provide you with an online arena in which to queue up against your fellow players to duel it out.

If everyone agreed, would it be a good game? If they all disagreed? If it was 50/50? Games that are popular have people pissing and moaning in the forums. They piss and moan yet are still playing the game. It's the people who never say a word that they really listen to because they are the ones that just leave if they aren't happy. They don't say why, they just leave. And funny thing is, they leave for reasons often never expressed on the forums. Because the people on the forums aren't looking to leave, they just want to change something. The quiet ones just leave. Which is why such fodder is treated like the OWPVP that it is.

WoW has gone through 12 years of this. 12 years of promises from the developers. 12 years of pissing and moaning on the forums. The only ones that have truly left are those who never said a single word on the forums. They just left. All those who spend even one moment on the forums return time and again. And they know it.

Churches are rarely the place to find objective discussions about sin.

OrangeBoy · March 2018

helloooooooooooo

OrangeBoy · March 2018

Wizardly, if your going to write an essay, put space after every comma, and periods. Also capitalize your letter I.

AnOldFart · March 2018

Slapshot1188 said:

Wonder if those folks comparing CoE to CU also know that Camelot Unchained will refund your money if you’re not happy and have done so since the beginning. That’s a game changer for me.

Keep on topic please

jonp200 · March 2018

I have to give kudos to CU and Star Citizen, and others who were willing to refund; particularly when the scope of their original pitch deviates from what was proposed. Delays should be expected and accepted given all of the variables in designing a game. "Mission-creep" does not have to be accepted in my opinion e.g. "We decided to go in another direction..(sic) Great, not what I backed. I'll take a refund please.

CoE; no such luck. In my opinion, they were less than forthright in their original ask and where they were in development. Yes I backed them and wished I had not. As I have said before, they were the nail in my crowdfunding coffin. Before you flame me, take a look at their original pitch on Kickstarter and see if you feel that vision fits with how things have shaken out.

Those most successful in crowdfunding so far have excelled at communication. I still have a number of projects I funded that have not yet launched but the devs are doing a great job communicating what they are doing and why they are doing it (Crowfall comes to mind and Underworld Ascendant, Wasteland 2, etc.) Is this a "nice thing to do?" No, it is an obligation in my estimation. It lets those of us who contributed dollars know they value us and are doing their best to develop something we believed in. They respect us.

This is much different than whining about not having resources or complaining about underestimating "X." That just tells me the people I backed lack competence and experience. They should take a look at some of the studios I mentioned and learn to communicate clearly and effectively what they are doing and why they deviate from a timeline.

Oh and everyone is entitled to his or her own option; even if wrong

Kyleran · March 2018

jonp200 said:

I have to give kudos to CU and Star Citizen, and others who were willing to refund; particularly when the scope of their original pitch deviates from what was proposed. Delays should be expected and accepted given all of the variables in designing a game. "Mission-creep" does not have to be accepted in my opinion e.g. "We decided to go in another direction..(sic) Great, not what I backed. I'll take a refund please.

CoE; no such luck. In my opinion, they were less than forthright in their original ask and where they were in development. Yes I backed them and wished I had not. As I have said before, they were the nail in my crowdfunding coffin. Before you flame me, take a look at their original pitch on Kickstarter and see if you feel that vision fits with how things have shaken out.

Those most successful in crowdfunding so far have excelled at communication. I still have a number of projects I funded that have not yet launched but the devs are doing a great job communicating what they are doing and why they are doing it (Crowfall comes to mind and Underworld Ascendant, Wasteland 2, etc.) Is this a "nice thing to do?" No, it is an obligation in my estimation. It lets those of us who contributed dollars know they value us and are doing their best to develop something we believed in. They respect us.

This is much different than whining about not having resources or complaining about underestimating "X." That just tells me the people I backed lack competence and experience. They should take a look at some of the studios I mentioned and learn to communicate clearly and effectively what they are doing and why they deviate from a timeline.

Oh and everyone is entitled to his or her own option; even if wrong

Well IMO many indie projects "distract" their playerbase by appearing to be communicative when in fact it's mostly a smoke screen to draw attention from more important questions and concerns.

I don't care really how much work has been accomplished, or if they are 75% complete.

What really matters (to me) is how any work items remain and what is the target date to complete each one.

Which of course permits the devs to predict release dates as the cone of uncertainly decreases.

Funny you should mention CU, they are "guilty" of doing exactly what I've described, almost 5 years in now and they don't have the balls to take even a stab at a release schedule outside of the beta 1 date.

I backed that game and seriously doubted they could pull it off with the budget they had and the promised delivery date.

Yet supporters will tell you, doesn't matter, when it's done its done, yada yada, but that's just wrong thinking.

Don't be fooled by the information smokescreen, right now backers should be demanding to know when they'll get access to VoxElyria and what sort of functionality will be available.

What was the promise, 1st Qtr or 1st half of 2018 as i recall.

It's 2nd Qtr next week folks, start demanding information that really matters.

Or go off on a pilgrimage and chase some red "bees", only $19.99 at a store near you

Slapshot1188 · March 2018

AnOldFart said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Wonder if those folks comparing CoE to CU also know that Camelot Unchained will refund your money if you’re not happy and have done so since the beginning. That’s a game changer for me.

Keep on topic please

See below

Slapshot1188 · March 2018

Kyleran said:

jonp200 said:

I have to give kudos to CU and Star Citizen, and others who were willing to refund; particularly when the scope of their original pitch deviates from what was proposed. Delays should be expected and accepted given all of the variables in designing a game. "Mission-creep" does not have to be accepted in my opinion e.g. "We decided to go in another direction..(sic) Great, not what I backed. I'll take a refund please.

CoE; no such luck. In my opinion, they were less than forthright in their original ask and where they were in development. Yes I backed them and wished I had not. As I have said before, they were the nail in my crowdfunding coffin. Before you flame me, take a look at their original pitch on Kickstarter and see if you feel that vision fits with how things have shaken out.

Those most successful in crowdfunding so far have excelled at communication. I still have a number of projects I funded that have not yet launched but the devs are doing a great job communicating what they are doing and why they are doing it (Crowfall comes to mind and Underworld Ascendant, Wasteland 2, etc.) Is this a "nice thing to do?" No, it is an obligation in my estimation. It lets those of us who contributed dollars know they value us and are doing their best to develop something we believed in. They respect us.

This is much different than whining about not having resources or complaining about underestimating "X." That just tells me the people I backed lack competence and experience. They should take a look at some of the studios I mentioned and learn to communicate clearly and effectively what they are doing and why they deviate from a timeline.

Oh and everyone is entitled to his or her own option; even if wrong

Well IMO many indie projects "distract" their playerbase by appearing to be communicative when in fact it's mostly a smoke screen to draw attention from more important questions and concerns.

I don't care really how much work has been accomplished, or if they are 75% complete.

What really matters (to me) is how any work items remain and what is the target date to complete each one.

Which of course permits the devs to predict release dates as the cone of uncertainly decreases.

Funny you should mention CU, they are "guilty" of doing exactly what I've described, almost 5 years in now and they don't have the balls to take even a stab at a release schedule outside of the beta 1 date.

I backed that game and seriously doubted they could pull it off with the budget they had and the promised delivery date.

Yet supporters will tell you, doesn't matter, when it's done its done, yada yada, but that's just wrong thinking.

Don't be fooled by the information smokescreen, right now backers should be demanding to know when they'll get access to VoxElyria and what sort of functionality will be available.

What was the promise, 1st Qtr or 1st half of 2018 as i recall.

It's 2nd Qtr next week folks, start demanding information that really matters.

Or go off on a pilgrimage and chase some red "bees", only $19.99 at a store near you

We've had this discussion a few times. I agree with most of what you say, but I feel that the refund offering takes all the teeth out of it.

Both CoE and CU are embarrassingly behind schedule. One game says they are sorry, and if you no longer believe in their vision/ability you can refund your money. The other says tough shit we took your money and so what if we are going to be years late.

To anyone disillusioned with CU they should get their money back.

But I really feel THAT is why CU doesn't get as much negative attention on these forums or any forums.

But yeah... no excuse for being embarrassingly late and their continued delay has seriously impacted my enthusiasm for the game. I literally have logged in for <5 minutes in the last 6 months... but that is also a difference between CU and CoE. CU does have "something" you can log into and see...

As far as Vox Elyria it was supposed to be "worked on" at the end of 2017. Now it's "around April" that people will start to get in.

k61977 · March 2018

btdt said:

Its funny how the only civil debate is between the people who all agree with each other. Sort of explains why debates are rarely civil.

Forums are full loot OWPVP. It's why the majority of the player base steers clear of them.

If developers truly wanted the player's feedback, they would have a private means to send such information to the developers. No one else can see what you said. No one else can rebut your statements. It is what it is. They have brains... or so we hope.

But they don't do this. They just provide you with an online arena in which to queue up against your fellow players to duel it out.

If everyone agreed, would it be a good game? If they all disagreed? If it was 50/50? Games that are popular have people pissing and moaning in the forums. They piss and moan yet are still playing the game. It's the people who never say a word that they really listen to because they are the ones that just leave if they aren't happy. They don't say why, they just leave. And funny thing is, they leave for reasons often never expressed on the forums. Because the people on the forums aren't looking to leave, they just want to change something. The quiet ones just leave. Which is why such fodder is treated like the OWPVP that it is.

WoW has gone through 12 years of this. 12 years of promises from the developers. 12 years of pissing and moaning on the forums. The only ones that have truly left are those who never said a single word on the forums. They just left. All those who spend even one moment on the forums return time and again. And they know it.

I tend to agree with him on this. Unless a dev ask for feedback, they really don't care how you feel about something or that you want something changed. To be honest I miss the days of players not being involved in the game making process and devs actually making the games they wanted to make when they started out. How many games have failed in the last 10 years because they tried to make all the player base happy instead of just making the game they set out to make?

With that said there is nothing wrong with a person opening a thread to talk about the things they like and don't like about a game. You have to realize though that most all official forums belong to the game devs and they don't have to leave anything open or up if they don't want to. It doesn't mean that it is right for the to shut down threads, but if they feel it doesn't line up with their own values it is their right to do as they please on their forums. That is part of the reason that places like this exist anyway anymore as they don't have a horse in the race per say.

The day of people truly being civil with each other when they disagree has never truly existed on the internet to begin with. The ability to hide your identity allows people to act like ass hats and spew nonsense and garbage whenever they please. This allows people to act like 5 year old children and rant and rave for or against things like they never would if they were in person face to face with those same people.

Overall never have any expectations, good or bad, for something you post on a internet thread or forum.

Theocritus · March 2018

Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.

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Well it seems you can't have a conversation about having concerns in the coe forums

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Well it seems you can't have a conversation about having concerns in the coe forums

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV