Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Additional Class Abilities in Expansions
Eronakis
Member UncommonPosts: 2,248
I wanted to start a conversation here about what everyone feels is the best approach to handle additional class abilities you receive in expansions?
Several MMO's I have played handle this differently.
Everquest simply recycled the same abilities, changed their names and their output modifiers.
World of Warcraft has been all over the place. Sometimes they add in new baseline abilities, sometimes they prune everything and redesign the class/spec to have a different play style.
To me, if I am playing a themepark-esque MMO with character level progression and new levels are added in a new expansion, I feel like the player should either...
A: Gain access to 2-5 new abilities (Baseline specific and/or powerful with large cooldowns)
B: Create an additional layer to modify or improve previous abilities
C: Develop sub class/combat mechanics that compliment the existing class abilities template.
There are pros and cons for each of my options above. As a player, what do you feel is the best way to approach expansion abilities for classes?
Several MMO's I have played handle this differently.
Everquest simply recycled the same abilities, changed their names and their output modifiers.
World of Warcraft has been all over the place. Sometimes they add in new baseline abilities, sometimes they prune everything and redesign the class/spec to have a different play style.
To me, if I am playing a themepark-esque MMO with character level progression and new levels are added in a new expansion, I feel like the player should either...
A: Gain access to 2-5 new abilities (Baseline specific and/or powerful with large cooldowns)
B: Create an additional layer to modify or improve previous abilities
C: Develop sub class/combat mechanics that compliment the existing class abilities template.
There are pros and cons for each of my options above. As a player, what do you feel is the best way to approach expansion abilities for classes?
Comments
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
(EVE is a shining example of this system in action with Guild Wars 1 and ArcheAge being examples of games that lean more heavily toward this than pure class based systems)
In those systems they may nerf your particular build but most players have other builds or can adjust their build enough that they remain perfectly viable rather than being locked into a class which they now hate.
What happens when an MMO is older and and has a lot of expansions? Given your options listed classes would have 70 spells, 5 layers of spell modification and 3 sub-classes.
Sounds like an absolute nightmare.
Just adding more and more and more to classes is stupid and unsustainable.
If more abilities are going to keep being added I'd rather them be for new specs or new classes.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Progression, to me, is the actual gameplay progressing. The way I approach combat and the flexibility I have is what I would describe as real progression and in most MMOs, that is achieved through unlocking skills or unlocking traits/passives/gear that dramatically alter skills.
So, that is what I look for in my games and it is what I hope for in my expansions.
When discussing new skills granted in expansions, I am looking for these things:
Skill bloat is a definite issue but I've found it comes from poor design choices, it doesn't have to happen. Most skill bloat that I've observed comes from adding too many "basic" skills, i.e. skills that form part of your damage rotation. For example, my Jedi Shadow in SW:TOR often tanked during raids, but I think only maybe 5 of my skills were related to threat or mitigation, the rest were all for doing damage. Whilst I understand the need to do damage on a tank, there is no good reason for having 20 damage skills when 5 would do. It adds unnecessary complexity without adding any depth, so it has no value to us as players.
I really like the way that Camelot Unchained is approaching skills. Basically, you don't have skills! Not in the traditional sense anyway. Instead, you unlock components and then create your own skills. So, you might combine sword with aoe attack, then add in two modifiers to add fire damage and increase the AoE range. As you progress through the game, you unlock more components and modifiers and can build bigger skills.
In this way, any bloat ends up being self inflicted and you can easily just delete skills and create new ones that are more efficient. Its going to be really interesting to see what everyone comes up with!
The way I am approaching this is to have an "Epic, Legendary and Mythical" Spells/Skills. Each class will have 1 slot for each. The player will have options to choose which Epic, Legendary and Mythical Spell/Skill they would like to slot. That is 3 new abilities per class for 1 expansion. However, these new abilities are very powerful with a 3-5 minute cooldown or longer. They are used for serious challenging situations. This could be a potential way to simmer down skill bloat. That way with more powerful abilities, they're not used as frequent in a rotation.
I really like the AA system in Everquest where you essentially level up AA points to put in trees to improve your current ability library. I think it would be interesting for players to have a choice of how they would modify or ad additional modifiers to specific current abilities in their library.
I believe one of the things that constitutes sound class design is having the foundation of your class (your role) be a constant. So I agree whole heartily with you there. When you start adding in abilities that are meant for other roles it can create massive imbalances. Those are my thoughts.
Still, I don't think AAs in EQ1 are on the same level of 'badly thought out' as the introduction of mercenaries in EQ1. Tank mercs can only function without a healer up to a certain level of content. Beyond that, characters switch to a healer merc. While this might be okay for some classes, Enchanters and wizards, who had previously avoided being pounded on by mobs, now find themselves in a tanking role, which they are ill-designed for. 'Get a group' just isn't a viable option for many players these days.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
When you do a '/who all 75 85' and you get 1 player (you) and 20 vendors, there's no chance for a level 80 to find a group. The lack of groups makes the distinction in classes less important than it once was.
Yes, my enchanter can solo without charming. Only I have to grind against green-level mobs. That's not exactly working with my restricted available time.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.