Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I think it's tasteless too as I do for UO or D2. At least in LotRO you're the epitome of evil and they're barter currency, not trophies.
I don't mind violence in video games, but there is a line for me where glorifying brutal actions like this goes too far. Is the point to be as violent and horrible as possible, or is it to have a game of competition on the battlefield. This is actually the senseless violence that video games, movies, tv, and media accept that I think contributes to desensitizing people, draining our ability to empathize.
Wow, i agree 100% .
I would add there is a deconstruction of humainty happening, and if it continues, we as humans will have devolved almost 10,000 years .
Humans of the past killed each other in the untold thousands in the name of various religious imaginary friends. Compared to that, today's society is downright fucking utopian.
Is this really worse than what we see in the Conan games?
I don't see this being a problem. The "problem" only lies with the individuals who "realllllly" love taking people's heads and get a bit "too" into it.
But those people are going to be in any pvp game, can't really stop them until they cross a line.
I think it goes too far in a lot of games. I think brutality can be conveyed without reveling in it. I'm not saying that's happening here, but overall why do we need to push the envelope of violence just because we can?
I also think it's culturally contextual in that if our society didn't have such a huge pragmatic issue with violence then it wouldn't be such a big deal.
I think GTA V steps over the line in so many places, but my son plays and loves it. It's a great game. I still stand by that I don't think it needs to go where or as far as it does. I think collecting heads or bits in any game probably goes to far, especially if it's gamified.
In LotRO the evil side represents spiritual and elemental corruption played out in the physical world. They are an unredeemable abomination and an outright representation of paramount evil. I don't think we need to put enemy heads on pikes in pvp or even collect bits. The pvp concept is cool and fun, but I don't think the side of evil should have a player representation in LotRO.
So, yeah it's still beyond what I consider appropriate. Other games either skirting or flaunting that line doesn't justify or absolve it. It's also not that big of a deal. It's just how I feel about it.
I think a lot of it is the context in which it's presented in an art/entertainment piece. If I'm playing Far Cry 5 and the cult leader beheads an ally in front of me and my character reacts like a normal human being (crying, screaming, looking away, vomiting) and you can feel the weight of that moment, I think that's a good usage of brutal violence to give the scene a heavy emotional weight. The game isn't trying to say it's okay to behead folks, it's reinforcing that that is an example of something awful to even witness and cruelly evil.
This mechanic will also make sure people are running the best cheat engines possible.
As for the question, I beginning to lean towards "yes games are causing violence" . Reason isn't the game, but the community it attracts, which again I said before, will cultivate abnormal ideas of morality through online chat and voip. I've personally played age of conan with one of the most idiotic guilds "The Mercenaries" Get pulled down into vent a private channel and sexually harassed was not fun and I left the clan after 3 days. That was 10 years ago. My voice is kind of high and I sound like im 12 over viop, this lamer though I was child. He was aventually banned from the game for harrasing people in chat.
I've listened to what young people are saying on vent / discord now, and it is scary stuff. Rape, racism , violence, drug abuse// how do you think the tide pods idea cultivated ? ... The anonymity of games unleashes the worst in humanity, oh and lets allow them to collect player head trophies.
I can tell you right now, without a doubt, the Crowfall community will literally be the worst community ever cultivate in mmo history. I just am done feeding these kind of communities my time.
And for some of us who were tragetically exposed to an actual image of decapitation on this very website, I just don't have the stomach for it.
THe bottom line is, it's tasteless and tacky .
I think the main point of this is the community, not the games. The internet has allowed people with certain interest to get together and be shit bags together. Is it terrible? Yes. Is it the video games fault? No. I would venture to say that video games makes people congregate to violence just like anything else does. Shoot guns at the range? Hey man, probably a group that hates everyone and thinks they should kill minorities/religious groups/ anyone. There is a forum for that. Your hobbies are swords? Awesome! There is a forum where people talk about the good old days where you could decapitate someone to defend your honor and steal the girl. Point is, video games are not the end all, be all reason for these sorts of violent tendencies. The internet and various VoiPs and forums have given people a way to talk with each other. Does it give people power to be completely crazy when communicating about violence? Absolutely. But so do any other venues where people have similar interest and a way to express themselves. Welcome to the web. It is full of shitty individuals.
Is this really worse than what we see in the Conan games?
I don't see this being a problem. The "problem" only lies with the individuals who "realllllly" love taking people's heads and get a bit "too" into it.
But those people are going to be in any pvp game, can't really stop them until they cross a line.
I think it goes too far in a lot of games. I think brutality can be conveyed without reveling in it. I'm not saying that's happening here, but overall why do we need to push the envelope of violence just because we can?
I also think it's culturally contextual in that if our society didn't have such a huge pragmatic issue with violence then it wouldn't be such a big deal.
I think GTA V steps over the line in so many places, but my son plays and loves it. It's a great game. I still stand by that I don't think it needs to go where or as far as it does. I think collecting heads or bits in any game probably goes to far, especially if it's gamified.
In LotRO the evil side represents spiritual and elemental corruption played out in the physical world. They are an unredeemable abomination and an outright representation of paramount evil. I don't think we need to put enemy heads on pikes in pvp or even collect bits. The pvp concept is cool and fun, but I don't think the side of evil should have a player representation in LotRO.
So, yeah it's still beyond what I consider appropriate. Other games either skirting or flaunting that line doesn't justify or absolve it. It's also not that big of a deal. It's just how I feel about it.
I think a lot of it is the context in which it's presented in an art/entertainment piece. If I'm playing Far Cry 5 and the cult leader beheads an ally in front of me and my character reacts like a normal human being (crying, screaming, looking away, vomiting) and you can feel the weight of that moment, I think that's a good usage of brutal violence to give the scene a heavy emotional weight. The game isn't trying to say it's okay to behead folks, it's reinforcing that that is an example of something awful to even witness and cruelly evil.
That's just my two cents on it.
What you are describing in Far Cry 5 is, to me, much more repulsive and wrong. Emotional weight? Brutality for shock value is how I see it, no use, no gameplay mechanic, just violence. I will go with Crowfall and will actually avoid Far Cry 5 because of what you've just wrote.
Interesting to see how we can interpret the same thing in a different way, hope you enjoy the game btw, I never was much of a Far Cry fan.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Is this really worse than what we see in the Conan games?
I don't see this being a problem. The "problem" only lies with the individuals who "realllllly" love taking people's heads and get a bit "too" into it.
But those people are going to be in any pvp game, can't really stop them until they cross a line.
I think it goes too far in a lot of games. I think brutality can be conveyed without reveling in it. I'm not saying that's happening here, but overall why do we need to push the envelope of violence just because we can?
I also think it's culturally contextual in that if our society didn't have such a huge pragmatic issue with violence then it wouldn't be such a big deal.
I think GTA V steps over the line in so many places, but my son plays and loves it. It's a great game. I still stand by that I don't think it needs to go where or as far as it does. I think collecting heads or bits in any game probably goes to far, especially if it's gamified.
In LotRO the evil side represents spiritual and elemental corruption played out in the physical world. They are an unredeemable abomination and an outright representation of paramount evil. I don't think we need to put enemy heads on pikes in pvp or even collect bits. The pvp concept is cool and fun, but I don't think the side of evil should have a player representation in LotRO.
So, yeah it's still beyond what I consider appropriate. Other games either skirting or flaunting that line doesn't justify or absolve it. It's also not that big of a deal. It's just how I feel about it.
I think a lot of it is the context in which it's presented in an art/entertainment piece. If I'm playing Far Cry 5 and the cult leader beheads an ally in front of me and my character reacts like a normal human being (crying, screaming, looking away, vomiting) and you can feel the weight of that moment, I think that's a good usage of brutal violence to give the scene a heavy emotional weight. The game isn't trying to say it's okay to behead folks, it's reinforcing that that is an example of something awful to even witness and cruelly evil.
That's just my two cents on it.
What you are describing in Far Cry 5 is, to me, much more repulsive and wrong. Emotional weight? Brutality for shock value is how I see it, no use, no gameplay mechanic, just violence. I will go with Crowfall and will actually avoid Far Cry 5 because of what you've just wrote.
Interesting to see how we can interpret the same thing in a different way, hope you enjoy the game btw, I never was much of a Far Cry fan.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Don't avoid the game on my behalf, I'm not sure it has that scene, I was just using it as an example.
I think some of you folks with children see this issue differently. I know having offsprings can change one's world view and worries, I don't because I didn't want my life or self to change in that way. So I'm not going to argue with you.
But, you gotta wonder, how many people have really become killers because of playing video games? This industry has grown drastically and violence was unaffected, even decreased relatively.
It's okay that you don't like violent video games, you can just stay away from them. What's with the need to launch a crusade (those of you who do) against games and let many other industries and beliefs which are proven to be the cause of millions of people dying get a free pass?
I think it's a bit hypocritical that many (not all of you fine people here) who are pro war and pro guns and come into their pants when they watch a capital punishment are somehow against video games because they are too violent.
Again, I'm not addressing anyone specific, just saying what's on my mind regarding this matter.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I think it's tasteless too as I do for UO or D2. At least in LotRO you're the epitome of evil and they're barter currency, not trophies.
I don't mind violence in video games, but there is a line for me where glorifying brutal actions like this goes too far. Is the point to be as violent and horrible as possible, or is it to have a game of competition on the battlefield. This is actually the senseless violence that video games, movies, tv, and media accept that I think contributes to desensitizing people, draining our ability to empathize.
I'm sorry man I just don't get the outrage. Its simply a looted item off a player character. Big whoop. I'd say a game feature like GTA where you get health back via a hooker then can murder her and get your money back goes way father over the line than this.
I'm not outraged. Why are you framing this as a rage issue? It's just an opinion and I've even said it's not that big of a deal. It's more about the environment we're cultivating in online gaming, especially at the competitive end.
It's possible that how we treat each other virtually influences how treat each other in reality. If it were just a looted item then why not just have it be a looted item, like cash?
I've already addressed the issue of "the greater evil". Some other game exhibiting vulgar behavior doesn't make it less so here. I specifically referenced GTA as a game I think often crosses the line. I don't play it, although I admire how Rockstar has operated as a game service and how consistently that game is in the top revenue earners across platforms.
It's not vulgar simply because it's graphically violent, but what it represents socially and psychologically specifically in the context of a competitive "esport" type of game. It's a concern not because I think people will run out and decapitate others. It's a concern because of the environment that engenders.
Except how we treat each other virtually does not influence how we treat each other in reality. I think you forget but games are mainly an escape from reality. We play them to do the things we cannot or would not do irl. Just because i'm a maniacal killer collecting the skulls of my enemies in a game doesn't mean i'm a raging psycopath irl who collects the skulls of my victims.
A game is a way to escape. You might as well say the books a person reads influences them irl. It doesn't, its a form of entertainment. Just because someone reads Mein Kamf doesn't mean they're gonna be the next Hitler or even want to be.
I think it's tasteless too as I do for UO or D2. At least in LotRO you're the epitome of evil and they're barter currency, not trophies.
I don't mind violence in video games, but there is a line for me where glorifying brutal actions like this goes too far. Is the point to be as violent and horrible as possible, or is it to have a game of competition on the battlefield. This is actually the senseless violence that video games, movies, tv, and media accept that I think contributes to desensitizing people, draining our ability to empathize.
I'm sorry man I just don't get the outrage. Its simply a looted item off a player character. Big whoop. I'd say a game feature like GTA where you get health back via a hooker then can murder her and get your money back goes way father over the line than this.
I'm not outraged. Why are you framing this as a rage issue? It's just an opinion and I've even said it's not that big of a deal. It's more about the environment we're cultivating in online gaming, especially at the competitive end.
It's possible that how we treat each other virtually influences how treat each other in reality. If it were just a looted item then why not just have it be a looted item, like cash?
I've already addressed the issue of "the greater evil". Some other game exhibiting vulgar behavior doesn't make it less so here. I specifically referenced GTA as a game I think often crosses the line. I don't play it, although I admire how Rockstar has operated as a game service and how consistently that game is in the top revenue earners across platforms.
It's not vulgar simply because it's graphically violent, but what it represents socially and psychologically specifically in the context of a competitive "esport" type of game. It's a concern not because I think people will run out and decapitate others. It's a concern because of the environment that engenders.
Except how we treat each other virtually does not influence how we treat each other in reality. I think you forget but games are mainly an escape from reality. We play them to do the things we cannot or would not do irl. Just because i'm a maniacal killer collecting the skulls of my enemies in a game doesn't mean i'm a raging psycopath irl who collects the skulls of my victims.
A game is a way to escape. You might as well say the books a person reads influences them irl. It doesn't, its a form of entertainment. Just because someone reads Mein Kamf doesn't mean they're gonna be the next Hitler or even want to be.
I don't think Torval is trying to convince everyone to avoid the game because of the mechanic. He's simply stating he doesn't like the message it sends. He's not starting a campaign or anything.
I get where he's coming from. It wouldn't stop me personally from playing the game if it were great, but it isn't really a draw for me, either. At least, not in this form (but I admittedly don't know that much about it). In Vermintide 2, where I'm cutting through literal waves of rats and chaos spawn? It's a big draw because it helps realize the grim situation we're in and gives me the feeling of being a powerful hand-to-hand combatant.
This mechanic will also make sure people are running the best cheat engines possible.
As for the question, I beginning to lean towards "yes games are causing violence" . Reason isn't the game, but the community it attracts, which again I said before, will cultivate abnormal ideas of morality through online chat and voip. I've personally played age of conan with one of the most idiotic guilds "The Mercenaries" Get pulled down into vent a private channel and sexually harassed was not fun and I left the clan after 3 days. That was 10 years ago. My voice is kind of high and I sound like im 12 over viop, this lamer though I was child. He was aventually banned from the game for harrasing people in chat.
I've listened to what young people are saying on vent / discord now, and it is scary stuff. Rape, racism , violence, drug abuse// how do you think the tide pods idea cultivated ? ... The anonymity of games unleashes the worst in humanity, oh and lets allow them to collect player head trophies.
I can tell you right now, without a doubt, the Crowfall community will literally be the worst community ever cultivate in mmo history. I just am done feeding these kind of communities my time.
And for some of us who were tragetically exposed to an actual image of decapitation on this very website, I just don't have the stomach for it.
THe bottom line is, it's tasteless and tacky .
This mechanic causes a character to release to the nearest friendly temple and costs the player both extra durability damage and ends any chance of a resurrection on the battlefield. These are important, the head on a stick isn't. You have to channel a beheading on a downed opponent to keep them from quickly returning to the fight with no losses... beheading and resurrection both require a long channel and being out of combat, risky stuff if the battle is still raging. As a player you can lie there waiting to get a res, release yourself, or get beheaded and forced into a release and "dumptruck" of your body which causes extra damage to your gear. It is not senseless violence, it serves a solid in game GvG, PvP purpose.
Comments
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I think we'll be okay.
That's just my two cents on it.
Interesting to see how we can interpret the same thing in a different way, hope you enjoy the game btw, I never was much of a Far Cry fan.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I think it's awesome, and it's just a game, don't overthink it.
Time to make my throne of skulls
But, you gotta wonder, how many people have really become killers because of playing video games? This industry has grown drastically and violence was unaffected, even decreased relatively.
It's okay that you don't like violent video games, you can just stay away from them. What's with the need to launch a crusade (those of you who do) against games and let many other industries and beliefs which are proven to be the cause of millions of people dying get a free pass?
I think it's a bit hypocritical that many (not all of you fine people here) who are pro war and pro guns and come into their pants when they watch a capital punishment are somehow against video games because they are too violent.
Again, I'm not addressing anyone specific, just saying what's on my mind regarding this matter.
A game is a way to escape. You might as well say the books a person reads influences them irl. It doesn't, its a form of entertainment. Just because someone reads Mein Kamf doesn't mean they're gonna be the next Hitler or even want to be.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
I get where he's coming from. It wouldn't stop me personally from playing the game if it were great, but it isn't really a draw for me, either. At least, not in this form (but I admittedly don't know that much about it). In Vermintide 2, where I'm cutting through literal waves of rats and chaos spawn? It's a big draw because it helps realize the grim situation we're in and gives me the feeling of being a powerful hand-to-hand combatant.
This mechanic causes a character to release to the nearest friendly temple and costs the player both extra durability damage and ends any chance of a resurrection on the battlefield. These are important, the head on a stick isn't. You have to channel a beheading on a downed opponent to keep them from quickly returning to the fight with no losses... beheading and resurrection both require a long channel and being out of combat, risky stuff if the battle is still raging. As a player you can lie there waiting to get a res, release yourself, or get beheaded and forced into a release and "dumptruck" of your body which causes extra damage to your gear. It is not senseless violence, it serves a solid in game GvG, PvP purpose.