When you take something old and classic, add stuff to it that the old classic thing lacked, and take a few other things out, the new hybrid thing has evolved. If you don't believe me, ask this guy:
When you take something old and classic, add stuff to it that the old classic thing lacked, and take a few other things out, the new hybrid thing has evolved. If you don't believe me, ask this guy:
That's not even remotely close to evolution, @Amathe. That's pure genetic engineering, and fiction to boot.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
That's not even remotely close to evolution, @Amathe. That's pure genetic engineering, and fiction to boot.
Yes because I am speaking in strictly scientific terms and there was nothing tongue in cheek at all about my post. Maybe I should have shared the "Lighten up Francis" scene from Stripes instead?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I don't think anyone really cares if you concede or not. Mainly because your prerequisites for evolution are contrary to its definition. Evolution is not revolution. You need to consult a dictionary.
Obviously, it is clear that you do not want any non-fanboi opinions in this discussion. You attack when faced with an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. That doesn't promote any form of discussion, peculiar attitude for someone posting on a discussion forum. Why not present reasons for why you agree or disagree?
Evolution doesn't throw away 19 years of change. My understanding of evolution is just fine. Perhaps you are thinking of adaptation?
I'm more than happy to discuss different opinions, but you have made it clear that your opinions are juxtaposed to Pantheon's premise. Then you come in here not to actually discuss anything, but to subject others to your opinion which you don't even bother tempering with information readily available to all. Your analyses are predictably skin-deep, and you demonstrate no intention of it ever being more.
I don't think anyone really cares if you concede or not. Mainly because your prerequisites for evolution are contrary to its definition. Evolution is not revolution. You need to consult a dictionary.
Obviously, it is clear that you do not want any non-fanboi opinions in this discussion. You attack when faced with an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. That doesn't promote any form of discussion, peculiar attitude for someone posting on a discussion forum. Why not present reasons for why you agree or disagree?
Evolution doesn't throw away 19 years of change. My understanding of evolution is just fine. Perhaps you are thinking of adaptation?
I'm more than happy to discuss different opinions, but you have made it clear that your opinions are juxtaposed to Pantheon's premise. Then you come in here not to actually discuss anything, but to subject others to your opinion which you don't even bother tempering with information readily available to all. Your analyses are predictably skin-deep, and you demonstrate no intention of it ever being more.
No one subjects you to their opinion. You subject yourself to it. You don't have to come here, just as he doesn't have to come here. But the fact that this forum exists to discuss this game does not mean that the only viable discussions are those which shed a positive light on it. Criticism is just as welcome.
I don't think anyone really cares if you concede or not. Mainly because your prerequisites for evolution are contrary to its definition. Evolution is not revolution. You need to consult a dictionary.
Obviously, it is clear that you do not want any non-fanboi opinions in this discussion. You attack when faced with an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. That doesn't promote any form of discussion, peculiar attitude for someone posting on a discussion forum. Why not present reasons for why you agree or disagree?
Evolution doesn't throw away 19 years of change. My understanding of evolution is just fine. Perhaps you are thinking of adaptation?
I'm more than happy to discuss different opinions, but you have made it clear that your opinions are juxtaposed to Pantheon's premise. Then you come in here not to actually discuss anything, but to subject others to your opinion which you don't even bother tempering with information readily available to all. Your analyses are predictably skin-deep, and you demonstrate no intention of it ever being more.
No one subjects you to their opinion. You subject yourself to it. You don't have to come here, just as he doesn't have to come here. But the fact that this forum exists to discuss this game does not mean that the only viable discussions are those which shed a positive light on it. Criticism is just as welcome.
Thank you.
When someone chooses to join a discussion without any intention of considering the opinions of others, they are no longer there to discuss.
Criticism is great if you actually bother to educate yourself on the subject. Putting your fingers in your ears and repeating the same shallow critiques on a matter is called being an asshole.
I did mention that evolution is more than just adding new features. Sometimes, it's shedding an extra layer of skin, ditching some fins (fast travel), or in some cases ... losing eye-sight (quest markers) for better perception. Don't read too deeply into those examples but the point is that Pantheon is also looking at some of the things that didn't work out too well with EQ or other more modern games and finding ways to alleviate any related pain points while potentially leveraging some of the benefits. It's tricky. That said, Pantheon is indeed adding some new features. I mentioned The Pantheon Difference page as well as Brad's blogs. I'm not going to spell everything out because I don't want to get into a huge debate over this feature or that feature, but I am confident that "An MMO Evolved" is a completely fair representation of what VR will be achieving with Pantheon. If you aren't following the game closely, you're probably missing out on some of the important details. I have been very active within the community and I feel compelled, as a fan of the MMO genre, to share what I feel is great news with fellow MMO players.
I don't expect everybody to start jumping up and down but I will tell you this ... I am a straight shooter. I may have a reputation as somewhat of a Pantheon Fan Boi but I also have a reputation for speaking the truth. If there were major questions or concerns bothering me, I wouldn't sweep them under the rug. At this time, I don't have any major concerns for Pantheon. I think the game may end up releasing a little later than some people are wanting but ultimately view that as a good thing. The game is too special, and the genre has too much riding on the line for this project to be rushed. The best thing VR can do is take their time and deliver a polished product. It will change the landscape and 10 years from now it will be nice to see people talking about the things that actually matter in an MMO. As it stands, all of the meaningful qualities of an MMO feel like buried artifacts. We have found fossils ladies and gentlemen ... and they're being genetically engineered into robotic raptors that won't be taking any prisoners.
I don't think anyone really cares if you concede or not. Mainly because your prerequisites for evolution are contrary to its definition. Evolution is not revolution. You need to consult a dictionary.
Obviously, it is clear that you do not want any non-fanboi opinions in this discussion. You attack when faced with an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. That doesn't promote any form of discussion, peculiar attitude for someone posting on a discussion forum. Why not present reasons for why you agree or disagree?
Evolution doesn't throw away 19 years of change. My understanding of evolution is just fine. Perhaps you are thinking of adaptation?
I'm more than happy to discuss different opinions, but you have made it clear that your opinions are juxtaposed to Pantheon's premise. Then you come in here not to actually discuss anything, but to subject others to your opinion which you don't even bother tempering with information readily available to all. Your analyses are predictably skin-deep, and you demonstrate no intention of it ever being more.
No one subjects you to their opinion. You subject yourself to it. You don't have to come here, just as he doesn't have to come here. But the fact that this forum exists to discuss this game does not mean that the only viable discussions are those which shed a positive light on it. Criticism is just as welcome.
Thank you.
When someone chooses to join a discussion without any intention of considering the opinions of others, they are no longer there to discuss.
Criticism is great if you actually bother to educate yourself on the subject. Putting your fingers in your ears and repeating the same shallow critiques on a matter is called being an asshole.
Fine. If being an asshole is questioning things developers promise at face value without collaborating proof or postulating alternative ideas or expressing a dislike for a particular course, then I'm an asshole by your definition. I'll admit to being cranky and even a bit of a curmudgeon. At least I contribute something. I've haven't seen you express ideas different from that a developer doesn't state.
I imagine your post count would be far smaller if you actually bothered to address any of the concerns or issues that you find so disagreeable. I guess it's far easier to attack those who son't share your degree of fanaticism and blind trust in a developer's words.
The only research possible at this point is reading those same developer's words. When that is questioned, the faithful scoff and turn a blind eye. The more vocal attack. That drives people away from this forum. I'm sure I'm viewed as a heretic by some for not believing the words of a developer. That's also fine. It doesn't bother me, and it is never intended to do anything other than make people think. Responses like yours are simply an attempt to shout opposing views down or drive the other poster away. At least @Nanfoodle was entertaining, and showed signs of actually thinking about topics he felt was uncomfortable.
Somehow you forgot to reference 'the Pantheon Difference' in your diatribe. I needed the laugh.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I did mention that evolution is more than just adding new features. Sometimes, it's shedding an extra layer of skin, ditching some fins (fast travel), or in some cases ... losing eye-sight (quest markers) for better perception. Don't read too deeply into those examples but the point is that Pantheon is also looking at some of the things that didn't work out too well with EQ or other more modern games and finding ways to alleviate any related pain points while potentially leveraging some of the benefits. It's tricky. That said, Pantheon is indeed adding some new features. I mentioned The Pantheon Difference page as well as Brad's blogs. I'm not going to spell everything out because I don't want to get into a huge debate over this feature or that feature, but I am confident that "An MMO Evolved" is a completely fair representation of what VR will be achieving with Pantheon. If you aren't following the game closely, you're probably missing out on some of the important details. I have been very active within the community and I feel compelled, as a fan of the MMO genre, to share what I feel is great news with fellow MMO players.
I don't expect everybody to start jumping up and down but I will tell you this ... I am a straight shooter. I may have a reputation as somewhat of a Pantheon Fan Boi but I also have a reputation for speaking the truth. If there were major questions or concerns bothering me, I wouldn't sweep them under the rug. At this time, I don't have any major concerns for Pantheon. I think the game may end up releasing a little later than some people are wanting but ultimately view that as a good thing. The game is too special, and the genre has too much riding on the line for this project to be rushed. The best thing VR can do is take their time and deliver a polished product. It will change the landscape and 10 years from now it will be nice to see people talking about the things that actually matter in an MMO. As it stands, all of the meaningful qualities of an MMO feel like buried artifacts. We have found fossils ladies and gentlemen ... and they're being genetically engineered into robotic raptors that won't be taking any prisoners.
Nicely said. I even like some of the things you said.
The statement about "pain points" is a bit of a issue. That's one of the things that 2nd generation MMORPGs added, things like fast travel and quest markers and radar-like mini-maps. I do not know that beyond a small core of people who want Pantheon to just be 'EQ1 with modern graphics', I don't see any evidence that these features have actually driven customers away. If that were the case, I'd have expected games with more rudimentary feature sets to come on the market, or even burgeoning populations in existing 1st generation games. Instead, these games have anemic populations and have even been sold off or closed down.
I can't interpret these data as anything close to a call to remove all features added post EQ1. That appears to be the basic philosophical premise that Pantheon has taken. Choosing to use EQ1 as the core of Pantheon makes it an EQ1-clone rather than a WoW-clone. Maybe their motto should be 'EQ1 Evolved'. Well, I guess it's at least partially true since EQ1 is/was an MMO. Let the customer think we're using a modern game as our base.
Since the thread is titled Pantheon vs WoW Classic, it's probably fair to give some thought to Blizzard's efforts. It has been a relatively long while since Blizzard's initial announcement to resurrect a pristine form of WoW. Has there been any further word on that? I know Blizzard can be pretty tight-lipped about their internal workings. What are the chances that, given the amount of work needed to undo the changes to WoW over the years, they won't include some art updates as part of their project?
Would a 'WoW with modern graphics' beat an 'EQ1 with modern graphics'? My guess would be yes, the success of both would likely parallel the earlier incarnations. There's a lot more customers (15 million to 500 thousand -- peak populations) to miss WoW. I'd think that a new WoW could potentially squash Pantheon before it launches, depending on when both products reached the market. Despite my concerns and questions about Pantheon, I would like to see it launch. That's the only way I will get hands-on to be able to formulate answers to some of the questions I've had. And the only way to see if someone actually slipped up and buried something truly new and innovative (not rebranded or incremental) deep in the workings.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
How do so many people know about Pantheon? Are there thousands in the beta or is this just people throwing out opinions that have never actually played?
How do so many people know about Pantheon? Are there thousands in the beta or is this just people throwing out opinions that have never actually played?
I started following Pantheon in Q4 of 2016. I have watched every video, read every blog, and followed every developer. The game is in pre-alpha right now and I will admit that my comments are based around information available to the community at large rather than actual playing experience. There are still a lot of questions surrounding the implementation of certain features, but VR has been very clear in explaining why some of the features are important. For example ... they haven't spelled out how progeny is going to work exactly ... but they have been very clear on why they want to leverage it. The "how" part is something that will be tweaked at some point during testing, and I'm good with that. As far as why so many different features are an integral part of the process ... it's magic, and shows that there is a development team that truly understands what has been missing from the magical MMO experiences of yesteryear.
I have nothing against WoW classic. I am sure it will be fun for those who play it. It was fun for me when I played WoW at launch.
But it will not present anywhere near the level of challenge that EQ posed (which I know from playing both games for years).
I also don't believe WoW classic will present the same level of challenge as Pantheon. Nothing I have ever read about Pantheon suggests that is so. Pantheon is expected to be a much harder game than WoW.
So I don't think WoW Classic will hurt Pantheon.
I was thinking this when I saw the post. Even classic WoW was considered "light" at the time. I personally loved going back and playing a warlock. . having to quest to get my demons etc.. . also the people selling bags at the mailbox was great
I'm sure WoW creating legacy servers will bode well for them. I know there are a bunch of people who think it will have a negative impact on Pantheon but I can't say that I agree. If anything, it will shine a light on how much better the MMO landscape was before it was inundated with all of the modern features that took away from the sense of exploration, socialization, meaningful reputation, etc. If people go back and start playing WoW, maybe they love it. Maybe they feel like it's the same ol' same ol' and the nostalgic effect wears off sooner than later. Do you really want to spend the next several years replaying the same WoW from all those years ago? Or would you rather play a new game that is built on similar philosophies where exploration is actually possible? People like to discover things, right?
I enjoy challenge ... and strategy. Even though I didn't play Vanilla WoW, I know my experience would be watered down by the many people who have. It would be inevitable that the massive amount of experience that other players have with that stage of the game would have an impact on me. Quest lines would be figured out ... economy trends, ideal progression curves, etc. I want to experience that stuff while it's fresh. I don't want an online guide to affect my experience, even if it's other people using it. The launch of a new MMO is probably the single most epic gaming experience I can think of. So at the end of the day, for me, I think the Vanilla WoW servers will ultimately help Pantheon. Maybe not in the short term if they release around similar timeframes ... but let's say Pantheon comes out 6 months later. My guess is that a decent amount of people would be willing to drop WoW and start playing Pantheon at that point. Just my opinion though.
I am not sure how these games compare, but, I would think that if given the choice to play a new game, with a new world, most players would try that, as opposed to doing what they already did.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Id I didnt have another game going Id play wow vanilla. Right now Im having fun with eq, so if the wow servers launched today then no I wouldnt go. Who knows, I may get bored with eq and start wanting something newish. Then Id go. But for sure if Pantheon launched (its still not certain, you know) then Id go there. In a heartbeat.
Would a 'WoW with modern graphics' beat an 'EQ1 with modern graphics'? My guess would be yes, the success of both would likely parallel the earlier incarnations. There's a lot more customers (15 million to 500 thousand -- peak populations) to miss WoW.
If you believe this to be true you don't understand how the genre has progressed. There are 100+ wow clones that have already failed and arguably 0 eq clones (VG wasn't).
I know that many who have donated to Pantheon are hoping to distance themselves from what the genre has turned into, largely due to wows influence. In rare occasions such as this, returning to a type of gameplay that was only available pre 2004 is exactly what is drawing people to this game. In this case, if you didn't play first gen mmos heavily prior to 2004 when the genre changed you never had a chance to experience gameplay as it was before games started catering to the masses in order to attempt to attract as many subscriptions as possible.
If you didn't play games heavily back then, Pantheon may allow you to experience the type of gameplay you have never had the option to experience...if VR delivers on their early promises... If not, (and I am skeptical because of recent alterations in the last year or so) most people will be in the same boat as before and won't understand what they missed and will continue to think games like wow or eq2 or p99 offered challenging/hardcore gameplay at the high end. Some of us know differently. All games are challenging to some extent, but the comparison isn't close. I wish everyone could have experienced high end EQ prior to 2004 so there wouldn't be so much confusion and difference of opinions on forums such as this and the Pantheon forum.
Would a 'WoW with modern graphics' beat an 'EQ1 with modern graphics'? My guess would be yes, the success of both would likely parallel the earlier incarnations. There's a lot more customers (15 million to 500 thousand -- peak populations) to miss WoW.
If you believe this to be true you don't understand how the genre has progressed. There are 100+ wow clones that have already failed and arguably 0 eq clones (VG wasn't).
I know that many who have donated to Pantheon are hoping to distance themselves from what the genre has turned into, largely due to wows influence. In rare occasions such as this, returning to a type of gameplay that was only available pre 2004 is exactly what is drawing people to this game. In this case, if you didn't play first gen mmos heavily prior to 2004 when the genre changed you never had a chance to experience gameplay as it was before games started catering to the masses in order to attempt to attract as many subscriptions as possible.
If you didn't play games heavily back then, Pantheon may allow you to experience the type of gameplay you have never had the option to experience...if VR delivers on their early promises... If not, (and I am skeptical because of recent alterations in the last year or so) most people will be in the same boat as before and won't understand what they missed and will continue to think games like wow or eq2 or p99 offered challenging/hardcore gameplay at the high end. Some of us know differently. All games are challenging to some extent, but the comparison isn't close. I wish everyone could have experienced high end EQ prior to 2004 so there wouldn't be so much confusion and difference of opinions on forums such as this and the Pantheon forum.
"I wish everyone could have experienced high end EQ prior to 2004, so there wouldn't be so much confusion and difference of opinions..." Read: 'If everyone would just agree with me, there wouldn't be...'. *sigh* Any one of us could say the exact same. And each of us would be very wrong.
Gaming isn't a homogeneous market, maybe closer to fractious. There are going to be differences of opinions. That's what discussion forums, like MMORPG.com, thrive on. Discussion is a crucible for exchanging ideas and learning to understand other people through their viewpoints. It can also help one refine their own ideas, or encourage thinking about a topic from another vantage.
Discussion is part of the way forward.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Would a 'WoW with modern graphics' beat an 'EQ1 with modern graphics'? My guess would be yes, the success of both would likely parallel the earlier incarnations. There's a lot more customers (15 million to 500 thousand -- peak populations) to miss WoW.
If you believe this to be true you don't understand how the genre has progressed. There are 100+ wow clones that have already failed and arguably 0 eq clones (VG wasn't).
I know that many who have donated to Pantheon are hoping to distance themselves from what the genre has turned into, largely due to wows influence. In rare occasions such as this, returning to a type of gameplay that was only available pre 2004 is exactly what is drawing people to this game. In this case, if you didn't play first gen mmos heavily prior to 2004 when the genre changed you never had a chance to experience gameplay as it was before games started catering to the masses in order to attempt to attract as many subscriptions as possible.
If you didn't play games heavily back then, Pantheon may allow you to experience the type of gameplay you have never had the option to experience...if VR delivers on their early promises... If not, (and I am skeptical because of recent alterations in the last year or so) most people will be in the same boat as before and won't understand what they missed and will continue to think games like wow or eq2 or p99 offered challenging/hardcore gameplay at the high end. Some of us know differently. All games are challenging to some extent, but the comparison isn't close. I wish everyone could have experienced high end EQ prior to 2004 so there wouldn't be so much confusion and difference of opinions on forums such as this and the Pantheon forum.
"I wish everyone could have experienced high end EQ prior to 2004, so there wouldn't be so much confusion and difference of opinions..." Read: 'If everyone would just agree with me, there wouldn't be...'. *sigh* Any one of us could say the exact same. And each of us would be very wrong.
Gaming isn't a homogeneous market, maybe closer to fractious. There are going to be differences of opinions. That's what discussion forums, like MMORPG.com, thrive on. Discussion is a crucible for exchanging ideas and learning to understand other people through their viewpoints. It can also help one refine their own ideas, or encourage thinking about a topic from another vantage.
Discussion is part of the way forward.
Discussion forums are an anonymous way to voice an opinion without having to engage in meaningful discourse over coffee. It's like Twitter, only in slow-mo.
I don't think anyone really cares if you concede or not. Mainly because your prerequisites for evolution are contrary to its definition. Evolution is not revolution. You need to consult a dictionary.
Obviously, it is clear that you do not want any non-fanboi opinions in this discussion. You attack when faced with an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. That doesn't promote any form of discussion, peculiar attitude for someone posting on a discussion forum. Why not present reasons for why you agree or disagree?
Evolution doesn't throw away 19 years of change. My understanding of evolution is just fine. Perhaps you are thinking of adaptation?
I'm more than happy to discuss different opinions, but you have made it clear that your opinions are juxtaposed to Pantheon's premise. Then you come in here not to actually discuss anything, but to subject others to your opinion which you don't even bother tempering with information readily available to all. Your analyses are predictably skin-deep, and you demonstrate no intention of it ever being more.
No one subjects you to their opinion. You subject yourself to it. You don't have to come here, just as he doesn't have to come here. But the fact that this forum exists to discuss this game does not mean that the only viable discussions are those which shed a positive light on it. Criticism is just as welcome.
Thank you.
When someone chooses to join a discussion without any intention of considering the opinions of others, they are no longer there to discuss.
Criticism is great if you actually bother to educate yourself on the subject. Putting your fingers in your ears and repeating the same shallow critiques on a matter is called being an asshole.
Fine. If being an asshole is questioning things developers promise at face value without collaborating proof or postulating alternative ideas or expressing a dislike for a particular course, then I'm an asshole by your definition. I'll admit to being cranky and even a bit of a curmudgeon. At least I contribute something. I've haven't seen you express ideas different from that a developer doesn't state.
I imagine your post count would be far smaller if you actually bothered to address any of the concerns or issues that you find so disagreeable. I guess it's far easier to attack those who son't share your degree of fanaticism and blind trust in a developer's words.
The only research possible at this point is reading those same developer's words. When that is questioned, the faithful scoff and turn a blind eye. The more vocal attack. That drives people away from this forum. I'm sure I'm viewed as a heretic by some for not believing the words of a developer. That's also fine. It doesn't bother me, and it is never intended to do anything other than make people think. Responses like yours are simply an attempt to shout opposing views down or drive the other poster away. At least @Nanfoodle was entertaining, and showed signs of actually thinking about topics he felt was uncomfortable.
Somehow you forgot to reference 'the Pantheon Difference' in your diatribe. I needed the laugh.
Clearly you haven't been here long. There are a variety of things I've disagreed with and do not care for. Again, that speaking before knowing thing.
I don't think anyone really cares if you concede or not. Mainly because your prerequisites for evolution are contrary to its definition. Evolution is not revolution. You need to consult a dictionary.
Obviously, it is clear that you do not want any non-fanboi opinions in this discussion. You attack when faced with an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. That doesn't promote any form of discussion, peculiar attitude for someone posting on a discussion forum. Why not present reasons for why you agree or disagree?
Evolution doesn't throw away 19 years of change. My understanding of evolution is just fine. Perhaps you are thinking of adaptation?
I'm more than happy to discuss different opinions, but you have made it clear that your opinions are juxtaposed to Pantheon's premise. Then you come in here not to actually discuss anything, but to subject others to your opinion which you don't even bother tempering with information readily available to all. Your analyses are predictably skin-deep, and you demonstrate no intention of it ever being more.
No one subjects you to their opinion. You subject yourself to it. You don't have to come here, just as he doesn't have to come here. But the fact that this forum exists to discuss this game does not mean that the only viable discussions are those which shed a positive light on it. Criticism is just as welcome.
Thank you.
When someone chooses to join a discussion without any intention of considering the opinions of others, they are no longer there to discuss.
Criticism is great if you actually bother to educate yourself on the subject. Putting your fingers in your ears and repeating the same shallow critiques on a matter is called being an asshole.
That makes literally no sense, and ignores the possibility that those discussing may not be willing to consider the differing opinion of the person entering the discussion...
Comments
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Thank you.
Criticism is great if you actually bother to educate yourself on the subject. Putting your fingers in your ears and repeating the same shallow critiques on a matter is called being an asshole.
I don't expect everybody to start jumping up and down but I will tell you this ... I am a straight shooter. I may have a reputation as somewhat of a Pantheon Fan Boi but I also have a reputation for speaking the truth. If there were major questions or concerns bothering me, I wouldn't sweep them under the rug. At this time, I don't have any major concerns for Pantheon. I think the game may end up releasing a little later than some people are wanting but ultimately view that as a good thing. The game is too special, and the genre has too much riding on the line for this project to be rushed. The best thing VR can do is take their time and deliver a polished product. It will change the landscape and 10 years from now it will be nice to see people talking about the things that actually matter in an MMO. As it stands, all of the meaningful qualities of an MMO feel like buried artifacts. We have found fossils ladies and gentlemen ... and they're being genetically engineered into robotic raptors that won't be taking any prisoners.
I imagine your post count would be far smaller if you actually bothered to address any of the concerns or issues that you find so disagreeable. I guess it's far easier to attack those who son't share your degree of fanaticism and blind trust in a developer's words.
The only research possible at this point is reading those same developer's words. When that is questioned, the faithful scoff and turn a blind eye. The more vocal attack. That drives people away from this forum. I'm sure I'm viewed as a heretic by some for not believing the words of a developer. That's also fine. It doesn't bother me, and it is never intended to do anything other than make people think. Responses like yours are simply an attempt to shout opposing views down or drive the other poster away. At least @Nanfoodle was entertaining, and showed signs of actually thinking about topics he felt was uncomfortable.
Somehow you forgot to reference 'the Pantheon Difference' in your diatribe. I needed the laugh.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The statement about "pain points" is a bit of a issue. That's one of the things that 2nd generation MMORPGs added, things like fast travel and quest markers and radar-like mini-maps. I do not know that beyond a small core of people who want Pantheon to just be 'EQ1 with modern graphics', I don't see any evidence that these features have actually driven customers away. If that were the case, I'd have expected games with more rudimentary feature sets to come on the market, or even burgeoning populations in existing 1st generation games. Instead, these games have anemic populations and have even been sold off or closed down.
I can't interpret these data as anything close to a call to remove all features added post EQ1. That appears to be the basic philosophical premise that Pantheon has taken. Choosing to use EQ1 as the core of Pantheon makes it an EQ1-clone rather than a WoW-clone. Maybe their motto should be 'EQ1 Evolved'. Well, I guess it's at least partially true since EQ1 is/was an MMO. Let the customer think we're using a modern game as our base.
Since the thread is titled Pantheon vs WoW Classic, it's probably fair to give some thought to Blizzard's efforts. It has been a relatively long while since Blizzard's initial announcement to resurrect a pristine form of WoW. Has there been any further word on that? I know Blizzard can be pretty tight-lipped about their internal workings. What are the chances that, given the amount of work needed to undo the changes to WoW over the years, they won't include some art updates as part of their project?
Would a 'WoW with modern graphics' beat an 'EQ1 with modern graphics'? My guess would be yes, the success of both would likely parallel the earlier incarnations. There's a lot more customers (15 million to 500 thousand -- peak populations) to miss WoW. I'd think that a new WoW could potentially squash Pantheon before it launches, depending on when both products reached the market. Despite my concerns and questions about Pantheon, I would like to see it launch. That's the only way I will get hands-on to be able to formulate answers to some of the questions I've had. And the only way to see if someone actually slipped up and buried something truly new and innovative (not rebranded or incremental) deep in the workings.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I started following Pantheon in Q4 of 2016. I have watched every video, read every blog, and followed every developer. The game is in pre-alpha right now and I will admit that my comments are based around information available to the community at large rather than actual playing experience. There are still a lot of questions surrounding the implementation of certain features, but VR has been very clear in explaining why some of the features are important. For example ... they haven't spelled out how progeny is going to work exactly ... but they have been very clear on why they want to leverage it. The "how" part is something that will be tweaked at some point during testing, and I'm good with that. As far as why so many different features are an integral part of the process ... it's magic, and shows that there is a development team that truly understands what has been missing from the magical MMO experiences of yesteryear.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I enjoy challenge ... and strategy. Even though I didn't play Vanilla WoW, I know my experience would be watered down by the many people who have. It would be inevitable that the massive amount of experience that other players have with that stage of the game would have an impact on me. Quest lines would be figured out ... economy trends, ideal progression curves, etc. I want to experience that stuff while it's fresh. I don't want an online guide to affect my experience, even if it's other people using it. The launch of a new MMO is probably the single most epic gaming experience I can think of. So at the end of the day, for me, I think the Vanilla WoW servers will ultimately help Pantheon. Maybe not in the short term if they release around similar timeframes ... but let's say Pantheon comes out 6 months later. My guess is that a decent amount of people would be willing to drop WoW and start playing Pantheon at that point. Just my opinion though.
Gaming isn't a homogeneous market, maybe closer to fractious. There are going to be differences of opinions. That's what discussion forums, like MMORPG.com, thrive on. Discussion is a crucible for exchanging ideas and learning to understand other people through their viewpoints. It can also help one refine their own ideas, or encourage thinking about a topic from another vantage.
Discussion is part of the way forward.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
which is often the case on this forum.