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What exactly is considered griefing or trolling in this game?

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  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Kyleran said:
    What the devs consider to be trolling or griefing might really be interaction and normal gameplay.

    Consider this excerpt from their TOS:

    "You must not abuse, harass, threaten, impersonate, or intimidate other users of our Services or any employee, agent, or affiliate of Soulbound Studios..."

    Exactly where must we not do this? If my guild is at war with another (like in EVE) it is not unusual for us to "camp" their home, killing as often as possible.   We may also stalk them at trade hubs and we definitely will abuse,  threaten and intimidate in game and in forums, especially if someone is sh$t talking us 

    Why not impersonate others, especially if trying to spy on or assassinate someone?

    No, we're not going to try and dox you,  or toilet paper your home but in games and in forums,  yes 

    Oh yeah expect us to demand ransoms which we may or may not honor.  Same for mercenary contracts, we might fight for you,  or switch sides to the highest bidder.

    We might even accept a contract to purposely harrang others,  with no other purpose but to spoil their fun.

    This is what open virtual worlds are all about,  player "interaction " of the highest order and yes, expect extreme asshattery at times,  because many will not be there to "play nice", its just not what we do.

    Love,

    Kyleran's Horde

    No quarter expected, none given.

    Marquess of Queensberry rules do not apply.

    B)
    Honestly it sounds like they are pushing for a serious carebear agenda for the game community. I.E. "Feel free to fight wars against one an other, but please, do it POLITELY"

    However just like UO, EVE, Shadowbane, Darkfall, Archeage etc. I think they are going to learn a hard lesson that many people who enjoy hard core PVP will happily, willfully, and ingeniously find ways to break the rules, harass and demoralize their enemies, innocent bystanders, and sometimes even their very friends.

    Add to the mix that players can plonk down huge amounts of donation money to gain very real advantages, influence, and footholds in the game, truly becoming as powerful, double dealing, and murderous as a Borgia pope, and its going to be EVE mega-corps wars all over again.
    There are already groups advertising that they will be mercenaries for real life cash and go crap on someone's enemies for them.  I saw a conversation about thousands of dollars.


    I wonder how this type of behavior is going to be dealt with.  Not by the players, but by the anti-bullying crowd.  There's all manner of online anti-bullying campaigns.  Hire-for-preemptive-retaliation seems to fly in the face of these groups' beliefs and the legislation they seem to be able to enact.  After that, it's just a matter of enforcement.  Let the litigation begin!



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • paulythebpaulytheb Member UncommonPosts: 363
    You just gotta fly under the radar baby. You gotta be like Lando baby.
    You stay small enough to avoid imperial attention, but when they push you too far you and your friends go and blow up their Death Star.
    bcbully

    ( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

    An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  • AllerleirauhAllerleirauh Member UncommonPosts: 496
    edited March 2018
    OrangeBoy said:
    Kyleran said:
    What the devs consider to be trolling or griefing might really be interaction and normal gameplay.

    Consider this excerpt from their TOS:

    "You must not abuse, harass, threaten, impersonate, or intimidate other users of our Services or any employee, agent, or affiliate of Soulbound Studios..."

    Exactly where must we not do this?
    The thing is, you mentioned EVE, but some gamers avoid similar games like EVE for a reason. I also see the term "carebear" mentioned; I already know that person loves drama and possibly loves forum PvP. You can almost guarantee they are a toxic gamer. These players are not true PvPers, but gankers.

    I don't know what CoE is on about, but nobody explained why Soulbound was mortified by the names chosen in the surname reservation. I feel that some of this drama is being used to add hype to this game, and members of this site are playing right into it.
    If you think about it, it has to be intentional.

    I remember earlier this year there was a thread on someone threatening death (constant ING griefing) on some player because he didn't adhere to his kingdom's whim. It got serious enough to get replies from two devs. This showed there was definitely malice and ill-intent from some if not a good portion of high-backers.

    Knowing this, I have to assume this was intentional -- for drama and hype purposes.

    I know that there is a lot of drama concerning CoE, that's why I said in my comment that I believe the drama is being used to add hype to this game. Yes, I have commented on CoE threads, but I don't get involved in all the hearsay, that's all that it is right now. Concerning the surname reservation, they said that any name that went against the rules would be considered invalid, look at my comment here. https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7299317/#Comment_7299317
    Currently Playing: Path of Exile

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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,517
    I kind of like his blunt honesty.  
    The question is, are they being honest, or just saying what you want to hear.. after all.. those that gather around bullies often agree with their antics.
    Allerleirauhbcbully
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Ungood said:
    I kind of like his blunt honesty.  
    The question is, are they being honest, or just saying what you want to hear.. after all.. those that gather around bullies often agree with their antics.
    Except he doesn't agree with me all the time :)

    People who sit in echo chambers try create their own reality.  That's why I like these forums because you can be pro or con or somewhere in between and still get an equal platform to make your case. 

    If we all agreed on everything it would be one hell of a boring place.

    This is one of those times that I think the Ivory Tower was given a wake up call.  This was just a silly name.   Hopefully it opens some eyes (and ears) and they can learn from this and grow when it comes time to land selection and eventually (someday... maybe) have actual players in game.

    Will they listen to poor old Marley now?  Or will they continue to ignore the warnings and wait for the Harbingers to visit?  Will be interesting to watch.


    Gdemami

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Ungood said:
    I kind of like his blunt honesty.  
    The question is, are they being honest, or just saying what you want to hear.. after all.. those that gather around bullies often agree with their antics.
    Except he doesn't agree with me all the time :)

    People who sit in echo chambers try create their own reality.  That's why I like these forums because you can be pro or con or somewhere in between and still get an equal platform to make your case. 

    If we all agreed on everything it would be one hell of a boring place.

    This is one of those times that I think the Ivory Tower was given a wake up call.  This was just a silly name.   Hopefully it opens some eyes (and ears) and they can learn from this and grow when it comes time to land selection and eventually (someday... maybe) have actual players in game.

    Will they listen to poor old Marley now?  Or will they continue to ignore the warnings and wait for the Harbingers to visit?  Will be interesting to watch.


    Perhaps I could be the "Harbinger of Gaming Past?"

    ;)

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    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    I kind of like his blunt honesty.  
    The question is, are they being honest, or just saying what you want to hear.. after all.. those that gather around bullies often agree with their antics.
    Except he doesn't agree with me all the time :)

    People who sit in echo chambers try create their own reality.  That's why I like these forums because you can be pro or con or somewhere in between and still get an equal platform to make your case. 

    If we all agreed on everything it would be one hell of a boring place.

    This is one of those times that I think the Ivory Tower was given a wake up call.  This was just a silly name.   Hopefully it opens some eyes (and ears) and they can learn from this and grow when it comes time to land selection and eventually (someday... maybe) have actual players in game.

    Will they listen to poor old Marley now?  Or will they continue to ignore the warnings and wait for the Harbingers to visit?  Will be interesting to watch.


    Perhaps I could be the "Harbinger of Gaming Past?"

    ;)
    Let’s ride >:)
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 213
    Orange Boy is the last person that should be commenting on what is trolling, and griefing, as he's someone who has been banned multiple times through multiple mediums, and is a known troll throughout a lot of the CoE community.  It's the equivalent of listening to CHarles Manson's opinion on mental health.
    Just curious, where have I been banned from?

    Would you like me to go to the official CoE discord and pull up Caspian's comment about hoping that I stay in on the forums forever so I can keep posting whatever I was posting on their official forums? If I'm Charles Manson, then consider Caspian a devoted follower.

    I haven't been banned from their forums, discord, etc. Ask Casper himself.
    Gdemami
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 213
    Also, I'd just like to add, out of the groups of people that I've seen on CoE's forums, the most disturbing are the ones that actively push for ING slavery and mutilation. 

    Forget the fact that these mechanics would probably make a majority of the sufferers quit, but the fact there are groups and even cults in the game that actively try to lobby for these changes or are ready to abuse the game to the point where the punishment cripples or put the victim in slave-like conditions makes you wonder how bad griefing will actually be once the game launches.

    These people don't necessarily define the project or it's devs, but these same guys are high-rollers with plenty of other like-minded followers.

    I doubt anything I have, had, or will say will out-class any of these sexually frustrated clowns.
    KyleranSlapshot1188Gdemami
  • AshyLarry24AshyLarry24 Member UncommonPosts: 208
    Anytime people start talking about people's sex life on a video game forum it makes me cringe so fuckin hard.
    OrangeBoy
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937

    Honestly it sounds like they are pushing for a serious carebear agenda for the game community. I.E. "Feel free to fight wars against one an other, but please, do it POLITELY"


    That's pretty sad that people are incapable of this.
    bcbully
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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    Anytime people start talking about people's sex life on a video game forum it makes me cringe so fuckin hard.
    Yeah I don’t care for that either.

    Wish there was a partially agree button.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    for the record SBS have made it categorically clear that there will be no slavery, cannibalism mechanics etc in the game so people making statements implying that players will put other players in slave like conditions is unfounded and misleading
    KyleranAshyLarry24mystichaze
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 213
    edited March 2018
    Anytime people start talking about people's sex life on a video game forum it makes me cringe so fuckin hard.
    I think you missed my point, I'm not delving into anyone's sexual desires, I'm saying the lengths these people go to to try to make slavery or mutilation a thing in this game is an extreme that's pretty prevalent.

    I like you how you use the word cringe and troll, you give the title of millennial due honor. Though, I have a feeling you're an aspiring sex dungeon master, kind of like Maulvorn, hope I didn't offend.

    Also, I hope a certain whale here reads my post thoroughly. I said there are groups of people that lobby and hope for these mechanics. People that are actively talking about using whatever mechanics that are in the game to enslave people. Whether it be through griefing/camping/blackmail, you name it.
    Post edited by OrangeBoy on
    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Sovrath said:

    Honestly it sounds like they are pushing for a serious carebear agenda for the game community. I.E. "Feel free to fight wars against one an other, but please, do it POLITELY"


    That's pretty sad that people are incapable of this.
    Well, it is "war" after all.

    EVE players probably understand what I mean.

    ;)
    ConstantineMerus

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 338
    It's the sign of the times, ain't it. Sensitive snowflakes are grown up and are now contributing to industries.

    But in all seriousness, they've overplayed their hand. Do it once, they'll be expected to do it again
  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667
    Kyleran said:
    What the devs consider to be trolling or griefing might really be interaction and normal gameplay.

    Consider this excerpt from their TOS:

    "You must not abuse, harass, threaten, impersonate, or intimidate other users of our Services or any employee, agent, or affiliate of Soulbound Studios..."

    Exactly where must we not do this? If my guild is at war with another (like in EVE) it is not unusual for us to "camp" their home, killing as often as possible.   We may also stalk them at trade hubs and we definitely will abuse,  threaten and intimidate in game and in forums, especially if someone is sh$t talking us 

    Why not impersonate others, especially if trying to spy on or assassinate someone?

    No, we're not going to try and dox you,  or toilet paper your home but in games and in forums,  yes 

    Oh yeah expect us to demand ransoms which we may or may not honor.  Same for mercenary contracts, we might fight for you,  or switch sides to the highest bidder.

    We might even accept a contract to purposely harrang others,  with no other purpose but to spoil their fun.

    This is what open virtual worlds are all about,  player "interaction " of the highest order and yes, expect extreme asshattery at times,  because many will not be there to "play nice", its just not what we do.

    Love,

    Kyleran's Horde

    No quarter expected, none given.

    Marquess of Queensberry rules do not apply.

    B)
    And this is why we can't have nice things!

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
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    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    edited March 2018
    Konfess said:
    Kyleran said:
    What the devs consider to be trolling or griefing might really be interaction and normal gameplay.

    Consider this excerpt from their TOS:

    "You must not abuse, harass, threaten, impersonate, or intimidate other users of our Services or any employee, agent, or affiliate of Soulbound Studios..."

    Exactly where must we not do this? If my guild is at war with another (like in EVE) it is not unusual for us to "camp" their home, killing as often as possible.   We may also stalk them at trade hubs and we definitely will abuse,  threaten and intimidate in game and in forums, especially if someone is sh$t talking us 

    Why not impersonate others, especially if trying to spy on or assassinate someone?

    No, we're not going to try and dox you,  or toilet paper your home but in games and in forums,  yes 

    Oh yeah expect us to demand ransoms which we may or may not honor.  Same for mercenary contracts, we might fight for you,  or switch sides to the highest bidder.

    We might even accept a contract to purposely harrang others,  with no other purpose but to spoil their fun.

    This is what open virtual worlds are all about,  player "interaction " of the highest order and yes, expect extreme asshattery at times,  because many will not be there to "play nice", its just not what we do.

    Love,

    Kyleran's Horde

    No quarter expected, none given.

    Marquess of Queensberry rules do not apply.

    B)
    And this is why we can't have nice things!
    Well you can, but Devs have to put in very firm ground rules and a whole lot of code to ensure they get the environment they hope for.

    This team is expecting too much from player goodwill IMO, which they unexpectedly discovered during the surname registrations.
    MadFrenchiebcbully

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 168
    well, for those who think this is a game being made to cater to carebears, i offer the following post:


    bcbullymystichaze
  • AshyLarry24AshyLarry24 Member UncommonPosts: 208
    OrangeBoy said:
    Anytime people start talking about people's sex life on a video game forum it makes me cringe so fuckin hard.
    I think you missed my point, I'm not delving into anyone's sexual desires, I'm saying the lengths these people go to to try to make slavery or mutilation a thing in this game is an extreme that's pretty prevalent.

    I like you how you use the word cringe and troll, you give the title of millennial due honor. Though, I have a feeling you're an aspiring sex dungeon master, kind of like Maulvorn, hope I didn't offend.

    Also, I hope a certain whale here reads my post thoroughly. I said there are groups of people that lobby and hope for these mechanics. People that are actively talking about using whatever mechanics that are in the game to enslave people. Whether it be through griefing/camping/blackmail, you name it.
    Lol, Orange I'm like 10 years older than you.  Assuming that you weren't also lying about your age when you were trying to convince everyone you had a scholarship to Stanford law, and graduated with a 4.0.  But then you lost track of your lies and people started realizing you are full of shit lol.
    OrangeBoy
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    edited March 2018
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:

    Honestly it sounds like they are pushing for a serious carebear agenda for the game community. I.E. "Feel free to fight wars against one an other, but please, do it POLITELY"


    That's pretty sad that people are incapable of this.
    Well, it is "war" after all.

    EVE players probably understand what I mean.

    ;)
    I remember a siege in Lineage 2 where it was "just a good time".

    They attacked us, we beat them, no profanity, no anything other than it's a game and let's have some fun.

    I remember a guild war where we won a particular battle. They indicated that they had enough and we ended up shootin' the shit with some of the "dead" enemies on the field. Was a good time. We even rezzed them.

    Of course, one of our people then ran by and had to give a "what is this carebear shit".

    I'm pretty sure it shows greater character to be a "good winner" than cussing and swearing and reverting to a 9 year old brat.

    In any case, I"m used to the whole open world pvp nonsense that comes up because some players can't separate themselves from "a video game" (pathetic) but they aren't going to change (well, unless they grow up) and I'm not inclined to change them even if they could.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

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    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    My first grade teacher has passed on...

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    My first grade teacher has passed on...
    Whoa,  feeling a bit random today? 
    ConstantineMerus

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Sovrath said:
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:

    Honestly it sounds like they are pushing for a serious carebear agenda for the game community. I.E. "Feel free to fight wars against one an other, but please, do it POLITELY"


    That's pretty sad that people are incapable of this.
    Well, it is "war" after all.

    EVE players probably understand what I mean.

    ;)
    I remember a siege in Lineage 2 where it was "just a good time".

    They attacked us, we beat them, no profanity, no anything other than it's a game and let's have some fun.

    I remember a guild war where we won a particular battle. They indicated that they had enough and we ended up shootin' the shit with some of the "dead" enemies on the field. Was a good time. We even rezzed them.

    Of course, one of our people then ran by and had to give a "what is this carebear shit".

    I'm pretty sure it shows greater character to be a "good winner" than cussing and swearing and reverting to a 9 year old brat.

    In any case, I"m used to the whole open world pvp nonsense that comes up because some players can't separate themselves from "a video game" (pathetic) but they aren't going to change (well, unless they grow up) and I'm not inclined to change them even if they could.
    Man I remember being in a Wushu battle with around 15 guilds and 3 or four alliance that ranged nearly the entire world. The battle was the culmination of a year long war. The guilds that were on the ropes stood to lose everything, everything. Multiple if not all guild keeps and respect.

    There was nothing polite at all about any of it. The intent from the beginning was to win the war take all their land and cause their guilds to disband. That’s exactly what my side did. There was no “polite”. There was glory and sadness though.
    KyleranConstantineMerus
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 213
    Larry, I'm willing to put this all behind us, I'd take you out to dinner but I just won my Nobel Prize in Physics and have to fly out to Stockholm.

    I'll let ya know when I'm in town so we can discuss our differences in my 2019 Rolls Royce Phantom... that I bought in 2009.
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