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Hands On with Far Cry 5's American Adventure - The RPG Files - MMORPG.com

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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Wraithone said:
    Richard Ross... Anyone looking into his back ground, and contacts, will understand what is at play here. I can't say I'm surprised, given the times we live in. Other than that it looks like an interesting game.
    Care to elaborate?
    He's talking about Rick Alan Ross a cult expert and deprogrammer. Ross is Ubisoft's cult consultant for Far Cry 5 and I'm assuming Wraithone is intimating Ross's work against the Branch Davidians in Waco.

    Far Cry 5 With Rick Alan Ross, Dan Hay And Jean Sebastien Decent

    Far Cry 5 cult adviser reveals how these fanatics thrive: Follow the money



    That's an awesome consultant for such a game.

    Here's to hoping more video games reach out to such folks to help inform their narrative.
    MisterZebub

    image
  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,528
    edited March 2018







    Wraithone said:

    Richard Ross... Anyone looking into his back ground, and contacts, will understand what is at play here. I can't say I'm surprised, given the times we live in. Other than that it looks like an interesting game.


    Care to elaborate?


    He's talking about Rick Alan Ross a cult expert and deprogrammer. Ross is Ubisoft's cult consultant for Far Cry 5 and I'm assuming Wraithone is intimating Ross's work against the Branch Davidians in Waco.

    Far Cry 5 With Rick Alan Ross, Dan Hay And Jean Sebastien Decent

    Far Cry 5 cult adviser reveals how these fanatics thrive: Follow the money





    That's an awesome consultant for such a game.

    Here's to hoping more video games reach out to such folks to help inform their narrative.




    He is not awesome at all. Many see him as a fraud and a person with a personal vendetta. He also has a criminal history.
    For example see: https://www.sott.net/article/150574-Rick-Ross-Religious-Expert-False-Expert-Psychopath

    The Waco Massacre is a highly controversial topic because the government basically found excuses to go in and kill 76 ton of people, including 25 children. The FBI and ATF also botched a previous arrest at Ruby Ridge, which resulted in them assassinating a 14 year old and his mother, who was also holding a baby in her arms. These actions were essentially giving groups distrustful of the government proof that their beliefs were well founded, which not only escalated the issue but caused the FBI and ATF to face public criticism.

    So the geniuses at the FBI/ATF thought they would try to repair their image by doing a "successful" arrest, with all the cameras and news on them at the same time. They chose to target the Branch Davidians, made up some excuse, never proven, why they needed to raid the property. This was going to be staged farce to which those government institutions could get back their image. It was all set up, since they could have arrested David Koresh many times outside of the property, even when he volunteered they wouldn't let it be so easy. Again they wanted a spectacle for the media. They brought in tanks, military helicopters and snipers...ect

    Only they screwed that up even worse than the Ruby Ridge murders. Some of the ATF people shot their own (friendly fire) and then blamed it on the Branch Davidians. Everything was so clumsily done... and yet no one was ever held accountable. Evidence contradicting the FBI narrative magically went missing, the politicians and the leaders driving the operations just got off scott free.

    Furthermore, there was pressure mounting from the first lady at the time (she ran for president this time around) who was annoyed that the media attention was still on the Waco "standoff", when her highly touted health care bill was supposed to be the focus.

    The key here is that not only was it botched at every level, but that military grade weapons were used on civilians. This was pretty much unheard of before.

    The FBI Negotiator (Gary Noesner) who was part of the operation denounced the actions done by the FBI and ATF. The ATF would blast sounds of animals being slaughtered for hours on end as a form of psychological warfare. He was shocked that the government portrayed the Davidians as "fanatics" and "cultist" in order to justify dehumanizing them and thus the extreme actions taken. Him and the survivors have spoken out at length regarding the events, directly contradicting the FBI and ATF themselves.

    This documentary sheds some light on what happened:
    Additionally Paramount just did a miniseries about it... Which clearly Farcry 5's release date seems to take into consideration.


    Simply because of the tactic of dehumanization via "cult", "fanatic" and "extremist" labels, which objectively seem to have no defining properties other than being used to trigger a "negative reaction", Farcry 5 does not look so great in that regard. Obviously their design choices are no coincidence.

    This is also isnt meant to put the Davidians in a positive light, but its clear that Rick Ross and Ubisoft in this case were using Ruby Ridge and Waco as the foundation for the game. When you are aware of this stuff, its kind of hard to not be alienated by it when its presented in entertainment. It can be seen as a form of propaganda.
    Post edited by DataDay on
    blueturtle13bartoni33QuicksandforcelimaTheScavenger
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,652
    It's a damn game people chill out
    TorvalMoxom914infomatz

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  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,528

    Torval said:


    Scot said:

    "But you’re not here to see what kind of party Ubisoft throws"



    Actually would love to hear more about that, if its a cult in the mid west, did anyone get baptised in a river? From the UK here, and that happens in every film and TV series I see about that mid west so they must have done? ;)





    (1)As a whole people in that area of the PNW treasure gun rights, personal rights, local over federal government, and all the stuff you might typically associate with "murica".

    (2)
    I

    Our region attracts extremist groups because they're looking for a place to operate without interference. A lot of people move out here because outside of Seattle/King County, and a much lesser extent Portand, most of the region is rural and sparsely populated. Lots of people come here to live out the western fantasy, live off the grid, or find seclusion. Cults, para-military nuts, extremists, and other wacko groups make up a portion of those. Most find that their fantasy of the wild west isn't as fun when it gets hard.

    I hope that provides a little better picture of the regional detail. I know often when people refer to areas and regions in the UK I get the broad stereotyped trope instead of a more local perspective. I hope it's helpful.



    (1) For more neutral context, I would argue the first point is that they value constitutional rights (including the 2nd amendment) and the ideological basis/political theory for which the united states was founded upon. Check out the Federalist Papers.

    (2) The same can also be said for the big cities and social centers.

    Where those who like certain degrees of independence (and being left alone) move into rural areas...those who that tend to push for more collectivism and not leaving people alone tend to gather in big cities. The people moving to rural areas to be left alone (which is more in line with our founding) is not any more crazy than those who seek to collectivize and control via centralized authority within the cities. These are just two different world views.

    Extremist can be found in both as well. Antifa (black block communist) for example, gather in the "far left" hubs in the PNW. Extremism also is a misnomer, its actually hard to define what it even means beyond having a strong stance. We all have those.

    Also remember, for context sake, our nation's first president said: "A free people ought not to only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." This is largely the political philosophy in which the nation was founded upon, so naturally there will be people who feel the same way. Our very foundation is based on both distrust of government and checks & balances meant to prevent a repeat of history, from which the biggest criminals are political leaders themselves.

    On a side note, Bioshock approached it better. They tried to critique philosopher Ayn Rand with the theme and setting of the game, though it butchered her philosophy, it was still pulling on complete hyper-stylized fiction. Farcry 5 makes no such attempt.
    forcelimaQuicksand
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,652
    This is not a political forum.
    Moxom914

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  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,528
    edited March 2018


    This is not a political forum.



    The game covers a politicized topic and used politicized people as well as politicized events to help frame it. Why are you upset its being covered in the discussion? Its not appearing in any unnatural fashion, but rather a byproduct of the discussion itself as well as questions presented.

    If it touches on any confirmation biases you may have, just say so and move on, or better yet think critically and come to your own conclusions based on a neutral position or at the very least seeing a few different perspectives.
    Quicksand
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,652
    DataDay said:


    This is not a political forum.



    The game covers a topic and used politicized people as well as politicized events to help frame it. Why are you upset its being brought up? Its not appearing in any unnatural fashion, but rather a byproduct of the discussion as well as questions presented.

    If it touches on any confirmation biases you may have, just say so and move on, however context is always good. Think critically and come to your own conclusions based on a neutral position or at the very least seeing a few different perspectives.

    Because politics are against forum rules ;)
    Torvalinfomatz

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  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,528



    DataDay said:





    This is not a political forum.






    The game covers a topic and used politicized people as well as politicized events to help frame it. Why are you upset its being brought up? Its not appearing in any unnatural fashion, but rather a byproduct of the discussion as well as questions presented.



    If it touches on any confirmation biases you may have, just say so and move on, however context is always good. Think critically and come to your own conclusions based on a neutral position or at the very least seeing a few different perspectives.


    Because politics are against forum rules ;)



    Well only one person actually referred to a specific political party, and it wasn't me. History as it pertains to events that drove both the "expert" used in this game as well as themes presented are not on their own directly "political" or rather partisan. They could be if presented as such, but they have not been.

    Lets not make it directly political, how about that? Just cover context and information as it pertains to the game and its creation.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,652
    DataDay said:



    DataDay said:





    This is not a political forum.






    The game covers a topic and used politicized people as well as politicized events to help frame it. Why are you upset its being brought up? Its not appearing in any unnatural fashion, but rather a byproduct of the discussion as well as questions presented.



    If it touches on any confirmation biases you may have, just say so and move on, however context is always good. Think critically and come to your own conclusions based on a neutral position or at the very least seeing a few different perspectives.


    Because politics are against forum rules ;)



    Well only one person actually referred to a specific political party, and it wasn't me. History as it pertains to events that drove both the "expert" used in this game as well as themes presented are not on their own directly "political" or rather partisan. They could be if presented as such, but they have not been.

    Lets not make it directly political, how about that? Just cover context and information as it pertains to the game and its creation.

    Correct. So keep the videos and links about Far Cry not news events  ;)
    TorvalLazarus71

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  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,528
    edited March 2018



    DataDay said:







    DataDay said:








    This is not a political forum.









    The game covers a topic and used politicized people as well as politicized events to help frame it. Why are you upset its being brought up? Its not appearing in any unnatural fashion, but rather a byproduct of the discussion as well as questions presented.





    If it touches on any confirmation biases you may have, just say so and move on, however context is always good. Think critically and come to your own conclusions based on a neutral position or at the very least seeing a few different perspectives.



    Because politics are against forum rules ;)






    Well only one person actually referred to a specific political party, and it wasn't me. History as it pertains to events that drove both the "expert" used in this game as well as themes presented are not on their own directly "political" or rather partisan. They could be if presented as such, but they have not been.



    Lets not make it directly political, how about that? Just cover context and information as it pertains to the game and its creation.


    Correct. So keep the videos and links about Far Cry not news events  ;)



    They are about Farcry though. Charismatic "cult leader" father Joseph Seed is clearly based on David Koresh. The link towards the event in question as well as the hollywood mini series based on Koresh shows the connection.

    You simply cannot separate the game from real events. If you find fault with that, feel free to shoot an email to Ubisoft's producers, especially those who thought it was a good idea to use Rick Ross and some sensitive subject matter as the basis for a game in which you go around murdering people.
    *shrugs*
    Add: In an interview, creative director Dan Hay was asked if Seed was based on any historical model, such as Koresh. Hay responded with "Very much so. We did a lot of research and reading. We looked into a lot of historical precedents and personalities." As for official Ubisoft marketing, it uses our bill of rights to frame their marketing material. Again one cannot separate the game from the content mentioned in my posts.
    Post edited by DataDay on
    blueturtle13bartoni33forcelimaOctagon7711
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,007
    DataDay said:

    Torval said:


    Scot said:

    "But you’re not here to see what kind of party Ubisoft throws"



    Actually would love to hear more about that, if its a cult in the mid west, did anyone get baptised in a river? From the UK here, and that happens in every film and TV series I see about that mid west so they must have done? ;)





    (1)As a whole people in that area of the PNW treasure gun rights, personal rights, local over federal government, and all the stuff you might typically associate with "murica".

    (2)
    I

    Our region attracts extremist groups because they're looking for a place to operate without interference. A lot of people move out here because outside of Seattle/King County, and a much lesser extent Portand, most of the region is rural and sparsely populated. Lots of people come here to live out the western fantasy, live off the grid, or find seclusion. Cults, para-military nuts, extremists, and other wacko groups make up a portion of those. Most find that their fantasy of the wild west isn't as fun when it gets hard.

    I hope that provides a little better picture of the regional detail. I know often when people refer to areas and regions in the UK I get the broad stereotyped trope instead of a more local perspective. I hope it's helpful.



    (1) For more neutral context
    I don't care about your neutral context that you're implying is more insightful. I live here. I have family all over the region. I'm just relating my perspective from experience. There is no neutral perspective. That's a lie told by people trying to sell their own perspective as the right one.
    jimmywolfTheScavenger
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  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,528

    Torval said:
    I don't care about your neutral context that you're implying is more insightful. I live here. I have family all over the region. I'm just relating my perspective from experience. There is no neutral perspective. That's a lie told by people trying to sell their own perspective as the right one.



    That's a lie told by people trying to sell their own perspective as the right one. ;-)


  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,852

    DataDay said:



    Torval said:

    I don't care about your neutral context that you're implying is more insightful. I live here. I have family all over the region. I'm just relating my perspective from experience. There is no neutral perspective. That's a lie told by people trying to sell their own perspective as the right one.






    That's a lie told by people trying to sell their own perspective as the right one. ;-)








    Yup, the "truth" is whichever version of reality conforms most comfortably to your own bias, lol

    And thanks to the wonders of the internet, finding "the real truth" is easier than ever before...
    jimmywolf
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,724
    Lots of posts and this game doesn't even come out until March 27th. This should be interesting to play when it comes out.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Mackaveli44Mackaveli44 Member RarePosts: 544
    I really wish someone who has had access to it, would showcase the stealth aspect of the game. Can you stealth in and takedown them quietly... if so, showcase it damnit. We keep seeing all these guns a blazing videos. Show something different!
    Octagon7711infomatz
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,652
    I really wish someone who has had access to it, would showcase the stealth aspect of the game. Can you stealth in and takedown them quietly... if so, showcase it damnit. We keep seeing all these guns a blazing videos. Show something different!

    The Far Cry series has always featured stealth gameplay as well as guns blazing style and a cross in between. You can play anyway you want to. That is one of the beauties of the their games. 
    Octagon7711Torval

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  • XodicXodic Member RarePosts: 929
    So, Far Cry 5 is Far Cry, for the fifth time.

    Thanks.
  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,528




    I really wish someone who has had access to it, would showcase the stealth aspect of the game. Can you stealth in and takedown them quietly... if so, showcase it damnit. We keep seeing all these guns a blazing videos. Show something different!


    The Far Cry series has always featured stealth gameplay as well as guns blazing style and a cross in between. You can play anyway you want to. That is one of the beauties of the their games. 



    That is not quite true. The first Far Cry was a stealth survival game by Crytek. You wouldn't do well with a run and gun approach, which was discouraged by design (such as weapons jamming/breaking). By the time FarCry 3 rolled around, the design changed to be more "run and gun" aka guns a blazing. The reason for this is largely due to the publisher (who bought the IP back around 2006) being influenced by other shooters at the time, and also the fact that most of the lead designers left after Farcry 2.

    Where stealth survivalism was the focus at the start, the focus turned to open world shootem up game after, with FC3 and beyond having the most significant change. Its this reason Farcry 3 and beyond started being heavily criticized by some of original fanbase.
    blueturtle13
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,652
    DataDay said:




    I really wish someone who has had access to it, would showcase the stealth aspect of the game. Can you stealth in and takedown them quietly... if so, showcase it damnit. We keep seeing all these guns a blazing videos. Show something different!


    The Far Cry series has always featured stealth gameplay as well as guns blazing style and a cross in between. You can play anyway you want to. That is one of the beauties of the their games. 



    That is not quite true. The first Far Cry was a stealth survival game by Crytek. You wouldn't do well with a run and gun approach, which was discouraged by design (such as weapons jamming/breaking). By the time FarCry 3 rolled around, the design changed to be more "run and gun" aka guns a blazing. The reason for this is largely due to the publisher (who bought the IP back around 2006) being influenced by other shooters at the time, and also the fact that most of the lead designers left after Farcry 2.

    Where stealth survivalism was the focus at the start, the focus turned to open world shootem up game after, with FC3 and beyond having the most significant change. Its this reason Farcry 3 and beyond started being heavily criticized by some of original fanbase.

    I am part of that original fanbase. I disagree with you ;)
    Torval

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  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,528


    I am part of that original fanbase. I disagree with you ;)
    And you assume I am not? Haha. If you disagree that FC1 was designed to be a stealth survival game, I question whether or not you have played or at least remember Far Cry 1.

    Anyways, I am not the only one who understands the shift in design that occurred. Example:


    blueturtle13
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,652
    DataDay said:


    I am part of that original fanbase. I disagree with you ;)
    And you assume I am not? Haha. If you disagree that FC1 was designed to be a stealth survival game, I question whether or not you have played or at least remember Far Cry 1.

    Anyways, I am not the only one who understands the shift in design that occurred. Example:



    I beat Far Cry 1 -- 5 times. The first time was run and gun. ;) 
    discouraged by game design is not the same as not able to do so. 
    Not sure you will find a bigger Far Cry fan here as it is widely known by everyone here I am a huge Far Cry fan.
    I even based my career in the industry on the Cry Engine because of the series. 

    Take care and have fun!  

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  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,652
    Shift in design is called evolution of a series ;)

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  • AsheramAsheram Member RarePosts: 3,663
    Why does that guy in the something isn't right video sound like he is out of breathe?
  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,528
    No you really could not run and gun your way through Farcry 1. Doing so in an enemy base would be suicide. The series was not always about such gameplay, it started off completely different. Now you could like the direction it went, or you can hate it. I simply do not care either way on that front. The change in gameplay, the selling of the IP to Ubisoft, the lead developers leaving... all these are objective facts which cannot really be denied. It would be simply disingenuous to claim that the first game let you play "guns a blazing", if you were not utilizing cover or luring enemies away you would be killed.

    By FC3 you were, as the video puts it, a super soldier.  If you wish to insist that Farcry as a franchise was all about "guns a blazing" then I'll just have to agree to disagree with you, because we apparently experienced two completely different games.
    blueturtle13
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,652
    DataDay said:
    No you really could not run and gun your way through Farcry 1. Doing so in an enemy base would be suicide. The series was not always about such gameplay, it started off completely different. Now you could like the direction it went, or you can hate it. I simply do not care either way on that front. The change in gameplay, the selling of the IP to Ubisoft, the lead developers leaving... all these are objective facts which cannot really be denied. It would be simply disingenuous to claim that the first game let you play "guns a blazing", if you were not utilizing cover or luring enemies away you would be killed.

    By FC3 you were, as the video puts it, a super soldier.  If you wish to insist that Farcry as a franchise was all about "guns a blazing" then I'll just have to agree to disagree with you, because we apparently experienced two completely different games.

    Nice try. ;) Not sure of your point on these forums other than to argue with others. Just seems to make you sound....petty? Anyways take care sir. I have to place you on ignore for now since you can't have rational fruitful discussions about games. Have fun with your personal crusade ;)  
    TheScavenger

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