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ESRB to Begin Labeling Games with In-Game Monetization + Provide Parent Information - MMORPG.com Ne

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  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,800
    Sephiroso said:
    Aeander said:
    The lack of distinction between actual gambling mechanics (ie lootboxes) and season passes/dlc will make this a useless gesture. 

    The option to buy things isn't the issue. Most games have additional content for purchase. The issue is that lootboxes utilize the same mental manipulations as actual gambling without the regulations or age restriction that comes with such.

    This is nothing more than a meaningless, slimy attempt by the ESA/ESRB to do as little as possible to impact the profits made off the back of lootboxes while getting governments off their backs.
    Think you're ignoring the fact that right now, there is no information period on the physical boxes of games if there's lootboxes and etc in the game. If the ESRB was simply to put a letter rating if it had any in-game purchase no matter what they were, you'd be correct that it would be a useless gesture.

    If they put that it had Lootboxes and cosmetics to buy, or Subscription+soundtrack on the back, then that helps a person make a slightly more informed decision on the game and is far from being a meaningless gesture.

    Parents might see lootboxes on the back and go, wait....im already spending 60 for this game, and knowing my kid, they're gonna hound me for more cash because of these lootboxes? nah, hello kitty 3: mr bones wild ride it is, at least that one doesn't have any extra purchases.
    I didn't say that it wasn't a step in the right direction. It's the smallest of baby steps. It's not even the bare minimum. 

    The proposed label by the ESRB will put every type of transaction under a blanket "in game purchases" label while failing to give lootboxes a higher rating. It would effectively lump nearly every game together, placing The Witcher 3 alongside SW:BFII on the same level. 

    Moreover, even if it does specificially mention lootboxes on the label, that gesture is going to have little impact in itself if it does not effect the age rating of the game in such a way that actually grabs parent's attention. A T or E rating is not going to draw parent attention. Even M ratings tend to go overlooked these days, let alone the criteria by which the game is rated as such. 

    So, I repeat myself. This is a tiny, tiny step by the ESRB to attempt to get the government off of their backs while doing as little as humanly possible to fix the situation. But don't take my word for it. Here's Jim putting it more eloquently than I ever could, mere hours after I gave my 2 cents on the subject. 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRJ9sJLfKU8

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,425
    edited February 2018
    I assume this will be used more in the console game market, which the local EB, Target, & Wamart still appear to make money on.

    Funny story, went to 3 stores to buy PS4 version of Hellblade Senuas Sacrifice for my sons birthday and after multiple puzzled "Never heard of its" I realized it was online only and bought it on Prime.

    Who knew? Console games come on cartridges, at least in my world.

    Newfangled distribution channels.

    ;)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,444
    edited February 2018
    Kyleran said:
    I assume this will be used more in the console game market, which the local EB, Target, & Wamart still appear to make money on.

    Funny story, went to 3 stores to buy PS4 version of Hellblade Senuas Sacrifice for my sons birthday and after multiple puzzled "Never heard of its" I realized it was online only and bought it on Prime.

    Who knew? Console games come on cartridges, at least in my world.

    Newfangled distribution channels.

    ;)
    You know you can buy digitally right from the PlayStation store on your browser or in the PS4 itself. Hellblade is on sale cheaper on the PS store right now. Maybe you can get Amazon to match that. https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP3064-CUSA07511_00-HELLB2017NT002EN

    That's if you care about the $3 or $4 difference. It's not that much.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,425
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    I assume this will be used more in the console game market, which the local EB, Target, & Wamart still appear to make money on.

    Funny story, went to 3 stores to buy PS4 version of Hellblade Senuas Sacrifice for my sons birthday and after multiple puzzled "Never heard of its" I realized it was online only and bought it on Prime.

    Who knew? Console games come on cartridges, at least in my world.

    Newfangled distribution channels.

    ;)
    You know you can buy digitally right from the PlayStation store on your browser or in the PS4 itself. Hellblade is on sale cheaper on the PS store right now. Maybe you can get Amazon to match that. https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP3064-CUSA07511_00-HELLB2017NT002EN

    That's if you care about the $3 or $4 difference. It's not that much.
    Who knew? Unfortunately this all happened back in November, but good to know for next time.
    Torval

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,998
    It's too little. There should be also some kind of written warning about the type of content sold, like:
     -Permanent content unlocks
     -Subscription
     -Non-permanent content unlocks (other than subscription)
     -In-game items, services or currency
     -Loot boxes or other random purchases

    And the store type should also affect age recommendations. I think that permanent unlocks and a single subscription giving access to everything should have no effect on the recommendation, cash shop should make it 12+, loot boxes and random purchases should make the game 16+.
    CoolitMadFrenchie
     
  • WarzodWarzod Member UncommonPosts: 468
    Physical copies... do those even exist anymore? That's like saying you are going to put explicit lyrics stickers on every 8 track copy of Snoop Dogg's next album.
    BruceYee
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,437
    Gambling is too deeply rooted in games for it to be "fixed". If there was a time to get rid of it it would've been when it began but now way too many people make too much money for it to ever go away.
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 3,108
    It's a tiny step in the right direction.

    I can't see it doing anything at all, particularly as it's restricted to physical copies. But, it's still forwards momentum in the fight against predatory monetisation of games, so can't complain yet. 
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    On a positive note, all the "Save the Children" advocates can rest at ease as 91% of children do not have access to make in-game purchases based on the report. 

    Ultimately, the labeling does very little apart from appease government who are completely out of the loop. Remember those warnings about Online play affecting the rating? No? Yeah, well it's there. 
    Torval

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DaranarDaranar Member UncommonPosts: 390
    edited February 2018

    Sovrath said:



    Daranar said:


    LOL does anyone even pay attention to ESRB anymore? Isn't all online content not rated anyway?






    So are you saying you are a parent but you don't look at ratings for movies, music, games but perhaps evaluate them for your kid(s) in some other way?



    @Sovrath I don't just go on a simple one letter 'Rating' to determine if content is appropriate for my child. The idea of that is at best completely idiotic and lazy. There are an incredibly amount of PG-13 movies that are not appropriate for 13 year olds in my opinion. And there are an incredible amount of 'T' games not appropriate for many 13 year olds. These ratings are stupid to begin with because each parent has a different standard for what content their child should be exposed to at what point in their life. It isn't a parent's duty to look at a friggin label on a box, it's their responsibility to know what they are exposing their kid to. That is a great value is Game Review sites and a great reason why if a movie looks questionable, I would watch it first. IMDB actually has a great little community rating section for each movie that users provide feedback of what actual content is in movies that might be questionable. It's a great tool for parents and a great way for parents to help other parents. I would at least do my due diligence past looking at a silly label that industry leaders (who are profiting from the sale) are slapping on a game.

    If parents are concerned about content and ratings and now gambling in games. PARENTS need to step up and stop being so unbelievably lazy and naive and start monitoring what content reaches their children and what financial damage their children have the potential to unleash on them.

    Parents calling for government regulation and more rating labels are the laziest pieces of crap around. If it's that important to parents, maybe they should spend more than 1 second deciding if any media is appropriate for their child.

    If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!


  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,998
    Daranar said:

    Sovrath said:



    Daranar said:


    LOL does anyone even pay attention to ESRB anymore? Isn't all online content not rated anyway?






    So are you saying you are a parent but you don't look at ratings for movies, music, games but perhaps evaluate them for your kid(s) in some other way?



    @Sovrath I don't just go on a simple one letter 'Rating' to determine if content is appropriate for my child. The idea of that is at best completely idiotic and lazy. There are an incredibly amount of PG-13 movies that are not appropriate for 13 year olds in my opinion. And there are an incredible amount of 'T' games not appropriate for many 13 year olds. These ratings are stupid to begin with because each parent has a different standard for what content their child should be exposed to at what point in their life. It isn't a parent's duty to look at a friggin label on a box, it's their responsibility to know what they are exposing their kid to. That is a great value is Game Review sites and a great reason why if a movie looks questionable, I would watch it first. IMDB actually has a great little community rating section for each movie that users provide feedback of what actual content is in movies that might be questionable. It's a great tool for parents and a great way for parents to help other parents. I would at least do my due diligence past looking at a silly label that industry leaders (who are profiting from the sale) are slapping on a game.

    If parents are concerned about content and ratings and now gambling in games. PARENTS need to step up and stop being so unbelievably lazy and naive and start monitoring what content reaches their children and what financial damage their children have the potential to unleash on them.

    Parents calling for government regulation and more rating labels are the laziest pieces of crap around. If it's that important to parents, maybe they should spend more than 1 second deciding if any media is appropriate for their child.
    I think the problem with your approach is time.

    If you're working, the time you can spend on your child is limited to begin with. I honestly believe that limited time should be spent on more important matters like being together with the child, doing things together with him, making him some good home-cooked food, taking him to places, trips, and to occasionally visit relatives.

    Time is a limited commodity. Parents who want to have ratings and other easy means to judge how appropriate something is for their children aren't necessarily lazy. They're adults who understand their own limitations and don't want to trade too much of good time with the child into time that's spent controlling the child.
    KyleranAeander
     
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Vrika said:
    Daranar said:

    Sovrath said:



    Daranar said:


    LOL does anyone even pay attention to ESRB anymore? Isn't all online content not rated anyway?






    So are you saying you are a parent but you don't look at ratings for movies, music, games but perhaps evaluate them for your kid(s) in some other way?



    @Sovrath I don't just go on a simple one letter 'Rating' to determine if content is appropriate for my child. The idea of that is at best completely idiotic and lazy. There are an incredibly amount of PG-13 movies that are not appropriate for 13 year olds in my opinion. And there are an incredible amount of 'T' games not appropriate for many 13 year olds. These ratings are stupid to begin with because each parent has a different standard for what content their child should be exposed to at what point in their life. It isn't a parent's duty to look at a friggin label on a box, it's their responsibility to know what they are exposing their kid to. That is a great value is Game Review sites and a great reason why if a movie looks questionable, I would watch it first. IMDB actually has a great little community rating section for each movie that users provide feedback of what actual content is in movies that might be questionable. It's a great tool for parents and a great way for parents to help other parents. I would at least do my due diligence past looking at a silly label that industry leaders (who are profiting from the sale) are slapping on a game.

    If parents are concerned about content and ratings and now gambling in games. PARENTS need to step up and stop being so unbelievably lazy and naive and start monitoring what content reaches their children and what financial damage their children have the potential to unleash on them.

    Parents calling for government regulation and more rating labels are the laziest pieces of crap around. If it's that important to parents, maybe they should spend more than 1 second deciding if any media is appropriate for their child.
    I think the problem with your approach is time.

    If you're working, the time you can spend on your child is limited to begin with. I honestly believe that limited time should be spent on more important matters like being together with the child, doing things together with him, making him some good home-cooked food, taking him to places, trips, and to occasionally visit relatives.

    Time is a limited commodity. Parents who want to have ratings and other easy means to judge how appropriate something is for their children aren't necessarily lazy. They're adults who understand their own limitations and don't want to trade too much of good time with the child into time that's spent controlling the child.


    Yes, but for parents who value time with their children might ask what they've been doing, how they are enjoying it, etc. and maybe even take interest enough to invest some of their own free time to learn about what it is that they are doing so they can have meaningful conversations with them. Reality is that in many cases that doesn't happen. Where do you think that parents spend the majority of their free time? With their kids? I'm sure there is a study on that, but my guess is no. 

    My kids are part of the 9% who do have access to buy. They don't, though, because we DO communicate. In fact, I think we've had less than a handful of cases in the past where my kid bought something without permission, in over a decade and 4 kids. 
    Daranar

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,088
    Daranar said:

    Sovrath said:



    Daranar said:


    LOL does anyone even pay attention to ESRB anymore? Isn't all online content not rated anyway?






    So are you saying you are a parent but you don't look at ratings for movies, music, games but perhaps evaluate them for your kid(s) in some other way?



    @Sovrath I don't just go on a simple one letter 'Rating' to determine if content is appropriate for my child. The idea of that is at best completely idiotic and lazy. There are an incredibly amount of PG-13 movies that are not appropriate for 13 year olds in my opinion. And there are an incredible amount of 'T' games not appropriate for many 13 year olds. These ratings are stupid to begin with because each parent has a different standard for what content their child should be exposed to at what point in their life. It isn't a parent's duty to look at a friggin label on a box, it's their responsibility to know what they are exposing their kid to. That is a great value is Game Review sites and a great reason why if a movie looks questionable, I would watch it first. IMDB actually has a great little community rating section for each movie that users provide feedback of what actual content is in movies that might be questionable. It's a great tool for parents and a great way for parents to help other parents. I would at least do my due diligence past looking at a silly label that industry leaders (who are profiting from the sale) are slapping on a game.

    If parents are concerned about content and ratings and now gambling in games. PARENTS need to step up and stop being so unbelievably lazy and naive and start monitoring what content reaches their children and what financial damage their children have the potential to unleash on them.

    Parents calling for government regulation and more rating labels are the laziest pieces of crap around. If it's that important to parents, maybe they should spend more than 1 second deciding if any media is appropriate for their child.
    First of all, that's great that you do that and in my opinion that's how it should be done.

    Having said that, I don't think having a rating takes anything away from the parents and if anything can be considered a "first step".


  • BakgrindBakgrind Member UncommonPosts: 421
    I'm kind of late to the thread, but thought that I would chime in on the subject. Adding a warning label to the game simply wont matter and it only shows that the the Entertainment Software Ratings Board is looking out for the best interest of developers of games with MTX mechanism and not the consumer. For that warning label to matter and to get people to understand what it means is that  any game that has those MTX type of mechanisms  needs to have the ESRB ratings changed from T Teen,M Mature to AO which is the more accurate rating. Because titles that are  rated  AO ADULTS ONLY Content suitable only for adults ages 18 and up. May include prolonged scenes of intense violence, graphic sexual content and/or gambling with real currency.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    CrazKanuk said:
    Vrika said:
    Daranar said:

    Sovrath said:



    Daranar said:


    LOL does anyone even pay attention to ESRB anymore? Isn't all online content not rated anyway?






    So are you saying you are a parent but you don't look at ratings for movies, music, games but perhaps evaluate them for your kid(s) in some other way?



    @Sovrath I don't just go on a simple one letter 'Rating' to determine if content is appropriate for my child. The idea of that is at best completely idiotic and lazy. There are an incredibly amount of PG-13 movies that are not appropriate for 13 year olds in my opinion. And there are an incredible amount of 'T' games not appropriate for many 13 year olds. These ratings are stupid to begin with because each parent has a different standard for what content their child should be exposed to at what point in their life. It isn't a parent's duty to look at a friggin label on a box, it's their responsibility to know what they are exposing their kid to. That is a great value is Game Review sites and a great reason why if a movie looks questionable, I would watch it first. IMDB actually has a great little community rating section for each movie that users provide feedback of what actual content is in movies that might be questionable. It's a great tool for parents and a great way for parents to help other parents. I would at least do my due diligence past looking at a silly label that industry leaders (who are profiting from the sale) are slapping on a game.

    If parents are concerned about content and ratings and now gambling in games. PARENTS need to step up and stop being so unbelievably lazy and naive and start monitoring what content reaches their children and what financial damage their children have the potential to unleash on them.

    Parents calling for government regulation and more rating labels are the laziest pieces of crap around. If it's that important to parents, maybe they should spend more than 1 second deciding if any media is appropriate for their child.
    I think the problem with your approach is time.

    If you're working, the time you can spend on your child is limited to begin with. I honestly believe that limited time should be spent on more important matters like being together with the child, doing things together with him, making him some good home-cooked food, taking him to places, trips, and to occasionally visit relatives.

    Time is a limited commodity. Parents who want to have ratings and other easy means to judge how appropriate something is for their children aren't necessarily lazy. They're adults who understand their own limitations and don't want to trade too much of good time with the child into time that's spent controlling the child.


    Yes, but for parents who value time with their children might ask what they've been doing, how they are enjoying it, etc. and maybe even take interest enough to invest some of their own free time to learn about what it is that they are doing so they can have meaningful conversations with them. Reality is that in many cases that doesn't happen. Where do you think that parents spend the majority of their free time? With their kids? I'm sure there is a study on that, but my guess is no. 

    My kids are part of the 9% who do have access to buy. They don't, though, because we DO communicate. In fact, I think we've had less than a handful of cases in the past where my kid bought something without permission, in over a decade and 4 kids. 
    To be honest, at least from my perspective, parents certainly DO spend most of their time on activities relating to their children.

    No generation of parents has ever been able to completely control what their children see and do.  No generation has ever even been able to stay educated on everything their kids do or see.

    image
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