Virtual reality. Are we there yet?

Cryomatrix · February 2018

Anyone tryout ESO on PS4 VR?

Should i jump in now or hold off until it is better? How about the VR games?

Thoughts?

Cryomatrix

delete5230 · February 2018

5 years...... I'm not kidding !

Unless you have a lot of money and feel like a new toy

Kyleran · February 2018

Not until VR headsets look more like the holobands in Caprica.

http://shhome.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/caprica-virtual-reality.jpg

Wizardry · February 2018

Not until the games are designed with more quality and not just a VR plugin.I can't see a quality mmorpog as is,let alone now expect them to add in a great VR support.So imo VR will continue to be a lot like all the other fast cheap game builds,just a gimmick to either Esport or a gimmick to just be a VR plugin.

I find it sad that the industry was given the wrong message by bad consumers,so many went out and bought these VR headsets without a single good game,so just blind purchasing.Then so bored and needed a game for their VR sets,they went out and bought that VRchat,not even a game,just a simple app that made a load of money doing nothing.

cameltosis · February 2018

In my opinion, it's nowhere near ready for gaming and unlikely to get there within the next 20-30 years.

The issue, as I see it, is movement.

When you put on a VR headset and turn on a game, your head is effectively in the game, but the rest of your body isn't. This creates a very jarring experience for a lot of people. Some games make use of motion controller, which then puts clumsy versions of your hands into the game too, but the rest of your body still isn't.

So, what happens when you play a VR game is generally one of two things. You either experience worse gameplay than normal games, due to being restricted to using motion controllers. Or, you experience similar gameplay to normal games, but have a very jarring experience because your head and your movement are disjointed. This is why I consider VR a gimmick - it is not offering an improvement to your gaming experience, it is simply pushing one new thing at the expense of your overall gameplay.

The exception to this is where we do actually have a 1:1 correlation between real life and the game. What I mean by this is your movements in real life match your movements in game. So far, this only seems to happen in racing games where you use a wheel and pedals, or space sims where you use a HOTAS setup.

I've played a racing game with bucket seat, headset, wheel, stick and pedals and it was great! The experience was an improvement over just playing on a monitor with a controller. I was actually turning my head to spot apexes, my spacial awareness was much better allowing me to hit smoother and tighter lines. I also have a friend who has the warthog HOTAS and played Elite:Dangerous with it and he says it, too, is amazing. The joystick and throttle are replicated in game 1:1 so when he moves the stick in real life, it moves it in game. It is a complete experience.

But, outside of those specific examples, everyone I know who bought VR said it sucks. You get maybe 10-15 hours where the novelty of 3D vision is enjoyable, then once you get used to it you're just left with subpar games. Literally every friend who bought VR has now shelved it due to lack of games that are enjoyable.

Kyleran · February 2018

Once they get VR working well for porn sales will probably "explode"

Scot · February 2018

I recon we will have something everyone wants in around ten years time. In a sense this is a controller issue, and you only have to look at how slowly those have changed if at all over the last thirty years.

Once they look like glasses, and don't give people headaches after a couple of hours we will be looking at the way to play games.

Erinak1 · February 2018

The stuff people call virtual reality isn't really virtual reality, its a 360 monitor :P

anemo · February 2018

There are a few treasures that feel really good right now. The Unspoken (the story in only like an hour which is such a letdown), The Climb, and Lone Echo. Though all of those I haven't gotten far on, since business brought me away from my VR computer.

I did get a few hours into OrbusVR which takes the 'typical' MMO (phased quests, levels, world/dungeon/raid bosses), attached all moves to motion very well (some like the warrior and archer being good work outs). It's good, but not get VR just for it good (still Indy). A combination of game mechanics and how VR is set up also seems to make people a bit more sociable as well.

I kinda got it because all the store owners are hiding video card stock and eventually when I went back saying "I'll buy a VR headset, but I'm not bothering if I'm stuck on a 960". Magically one was in stock for me. (Annoyed at crypto, but if that crashes I'm looking forward to get some beat down high end cards for pennies on the dollar).

Dvora · February 2018

Erinak1 said:

The stuff people call virtual reality isn't really virtual reality, its a 360 monitor :P

You're totally wrong there. Games that are built for vr really do put you in the game. There is generally a vast difference in games built for vr and games that paste it on later with a mod, or just have an engine that doesn't cater to 3d geometric rendering very well. If you are talking about some lame phone based VR goggles showing 360 video, then ya, thats not very good either.

Other posters are right though that they havent really figured out movement very well yet, and games are simplistic.

That said there are still some fun games, more along the lines of wii games than epic AAA titles though. Fun to watch & play with a friend for a bit, but nothing that will hold you for hours by yourself.

I do think the potential for an amazing mmo type game is there though, even with limited controllers. Don't think anyone will find the budget for it though untill more hardware is sold and there is a bigger market.

Half of what is wrong with movement is the software implementations, not just the hardware limitations. I've found a couple games where movement is very tolerable.

Try battlesky vr if you have a headset. The game lets you fly like ironman with jets on your hands. If you use it to skim along the ground the movement feels very nice. Take away the flight and you could have a method of ground movement that feels way better than any other free locomotion method Ive seen in any VR game so far - and I've tried alot. Use this, make some of the controller button layouts better, and I think it would take movement to another level.

Even flying in Battlesky does not make me sick, where free locomotion in some other FPS type vr games does. Especially Doom VFR where the free loco is just way too fast to play for extended periods. Thats the first VR game to actually make me feel a bit nauseus.

Sovrath · February 2018

I personally like the new doom in VR but that's just me.

Dvora · February 2018

Sovrath said:

I personally like the new doom in VR but that's just me.

Do you use teleport movement or free locomotion? The free loco wasnt horrible just not precise, that along with being faster than most other free loco games made me start to feel sick after about 40 mins. I found the gun aiming to be a bit off moreso than other shooters also. Battlesky VR was better in that regard too, I could hit targets much much further away with the pistol, and I don't think it's any sort of aim assist, it just felt natural, whereas in doom and some other games you have to learn to compensate a bit for distant shots.

Octagon7711 · February 2018

Augmented reality will probably make it big before VR does.

immoralthang · February 2018

It’s already been here for millions of years, it’s called life.

maskedweasel · February 2018

Even if you plan to buy one soonish, hold off. Most sets are going wireless in the next generation, and most of them will have built in roomscale. Some are even going standalone, meaning you would be streaming content directly from your PC to the headset.

So while VR isn't there yet.. won't be "there" anytime soon (if "there" means having games worthy of buying a set for) you'll probably still be able to get a decent set that requires minimal installation and pretty good performance this year.

In terms of augmented reality, you'll see some sets this year, but the really impressive stuff, that has content you'd want to use/play won't hit until around 2020 at the earliest, despite hardware being available starting this year.

maskedweasel · February 2018

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

In a game like Elite Dangerous, we are pretty close visually speaking.

Unfortunately space games like that don't appeal to very many people. Systems that take all kinds of games into account will be what drives people into the hardware.

Phaserlight · February 2018

Dvora said:

Erinak1 said:

The stuff people call virtual reality isn't really virtual reality, its a 360 monitor :P

You're totally wrong there. Games that are built for vr really do put you in the game. There is generally a vast difference in games built for vr and games that paste it on later with a mod, or just have an engine that doesn't cater to 3d geometric rendering very well. If you are talking about some lame phone based VR goggles showing 360 video, then ya, thats not very good either.

Other posters are right though that they havent really figured out movement very well yet, and games are simplistic.

That said there are still some fun games, more along the lines of wii games than epic AAA titles though. Fun to watch & play with a friend for a bit, but nothing that will hold you for hours by yourself.

I do think the potential for an amazing mmo type game is there though, even with limited controllers. Don't think anyone will find the budget for it though untill more hardware is sold and there is a bigger market.

Half of what is wrong with movement is the software implementations, not just the hardware limitations. I've found a couple games where movement is very tolerable.

Try battlesky vr if you have a headset. The game lets you fly like ironman with jets on your hands. If you use it to skim along the ground the movement feels very nice. Take away the flight and you could have a method of ground movement that feels way better than any other free locomotion method Ive seen in any VR game so far - and I've tried alot. Use this, make some of the controller button layouts better, and I think it would take movement to another level.

Even flying in Battlesky does not make me sick, where free locomotion in some other FPS type vr games does. Especially Doom VFR where the free loco is just way too fast to play for extended periods. Thats the first VR game to actually make me feel a bit nauseus.

Except that some games translate really well to VR naturally due to their design; I disagree with the supposition that a VR game must be built from the ground up to be good in VR. Some games work really well in VR simply because of their shape.

There isn't a mystical chasm between VR and non VR games which allows "ground up" VR experiences to work so much as a list of best practices which some existing software is able to meet, and some software isn't.

Sovrath · February 2018

Dvora said:

Sovrath said:

I personally like the new doom in VR but that's just me.

Do you use teleport movement or free locomotion? The free loco wasnt horrible just not precise, that along with being faster than most other free loco games made me start to feel sick after about 40 mins. I found the gun aiming to be a bit off moreso than other shooters also. Battlesky VR was better in that regard too, I could hit targets much much further away with the pistol, and I don't think it's any sort of aim assist, it just felt natural, whereas in doom and some other games you have to learn to compensate a bit for distant shots.

teleport!

Phaserlight · February 2018

To the OP: Vendetta Online VR is my favorite, since October 2016. I probably spend as much time in that VR app as in all other VR apps combined.

I actually am super satisfied with the Gear VR. It's not perfect, but it has exceeded my expectations. The first five minutes felt like the most important computing experience I'd had since I started using computers around age 4, and I am now 37.

It has sold me on wireless. I know some will go on about 6DoF versus 3DoF and what not, but to me having the freedom to look around 360 degrees in a swivel chair without worrying about tangling up in any cables more than makes up for this. The clarity is great. The rig overheats but I've found a solution for that (gel pack and rubber bands).

Seriously though, being able to look around freely in all directions is not something I'd be willing to give up; my next VR rig will be wireless.

Quizzical · February 2018

immoralthang said:

It’s already been here for millions of years, it’s called life.

Actual reality isn't virtual enough. We want something faker.

Shaigh · February 2018

We are not even close to having virtual reality but give it 30-50 year and we might be getting close.

Audio its locked down, visually is getting closer but it will take a really long time for the body to feel like its in virtual reality. Even if we get it, the cost will be really high so its probably going to be a toy for the rich and not something for the masses.

Dauzqul · February 2018

It's close, man.

I had my very first VR experience earlier last year. I was at a friend's house and he had purchased some rail-shooter via PS4 VR. I tried it out and was pretty blown away. When enemies would swoop down, I found myself actually ducking etc. When I was near the edge of a cliff, I felt mildly afraid.

The controls were extremely responsive, too. I'm holding a PS4 controller. However, VR shows me holding a handgun. As I moved the controller, the mimicked handgun movement was almost instant.

The only issue is the lack of games. If someone came out with a full-blown MMORPG or a nice multi-player Battlefield type game, I would go all in.

Amathe · February 2018

We will be there when I can enjoy VR while wearing my glasses.

Quicksand · February 2018

Read some of the replies, and could not disagree more. I wasn't about to spend Close to $800 bucks on it, so never got to take a look, but when Occulus dropped their price for their bundle to $399, my brother bought it, I tried it, then I bought it and love it.

I currently spend most of my time playing FO4VR and its amazing, but the lone MMORPG that is out is called OrbusVR, and while the graphics on it are lacking, it shows what is coming. and its impressive.

As far as the main attack VR seams to get is "VR motion sickness", so let me address that:

First, I was surprised at how much it affected me the first time I moved using locomotion. However, after very minimal research into what caused it and how to end it, I found that its very simple and very quick to desensitize yourself to it. Literally, playing a 10minute session using locomotion (moving slowly) twice a day for three days and you no longer even notice anything. (individuals do vary a bit) The brain adapts quickly and easily to almost anything and VR motion is no different.

So I personally think, if you have the cash to spend (never go broke for a game) then it is absolutely worth it.

*Edit*
On a side note, for anyone thinking about it, VorpX is a horrible program (IMO) that I can not discourage someone from buying enough. HORRIBLE! biggest waste of $40 in my life. Just FYI. (VorpX is a program that makes standard games, like Skyrim pc, work in VR)

laxie · February 2018

Cryomatrix said:

Anyone tryout ESO on PS4 VR?

Should i jump in now or hold off until it is better? How about the VR games?

Thoughts?

Cryomatrix

The PS4 VR especially, is not there yet.

I bought the Vive on release and PS4 VR last summer. VR as a whole is a transformative experience - it is unlike anything else, which inherently has a lot of value. It shows you a new way of enjoying content. Even if it is imperfect in many ways, the concept is definitely worth it.

There are experiences only VR can deliver. One of the "games" takes you on a tour of the solar system. I have never understood the scale of our solar system, until trying this. The ability to see the planets around you at scale, being taken close to them, having to look all the way up and still not seeing the horizon - this is something you can never experience outside of VR.

Being able to drive a car and look outside your window as a friend is trying to overtake you. Flying a spaceship and actually turning your head to follow the enemy. Exploring your hometown locations in Google Earth, in 3D.

All of these experiences are groudbreaking and will deliver a "for the first time ever" feeling. So I am a strong believer in the future of VR, because it's something you can't get elsewhere.

The current generation is lacking in many departments though. The graphical fidelity isn't there - this is true for PS4 especially. Vive is pixelated and "blurry" on the periphery of the lenses. PS4 is less pixelated, but the system can't render detail due to hardware constraints (so the potential for any breathtaking visuals isn't there at all).

Space is another big issue. The ability to move in VR is a key component of the experience. The best experiences I had were on Vive, where I could at least partially move around the physical environment. This requires a lot of space, which most people won't have. I moved apartments recently and don't have a giant room to dedicate to VR anymore.

The cables on both headsets are uncomfortable. You can definitely feel it pulling on you from the behind. In the case of the Vive, movement is a pain as it's easy to get tangled in the cords. And the headsets themselves need a lot of fiddling to get the image just right (in terms of getting a good fit on your face).

Vive has better tracking and is a better VR experience (but requires good hardware). PS4 is more of a "social party" gimmick type of thing. I probably wouldn't recommend getting PS4 VR - you won't get some of the transformative experiences that come with room-scale Vive.

Vive is the only one out of the three I would recommend. I would be hesitant to say "buy it now". It's not ideal by any means. At the same time, the idea of VR is something you'll never exprience anywhere else. I don't regret my purchase at all - even at the full pre-release price I paid.

The ideal experience is still years away. It will not be trivial to "fix" the display. To get a truly immersive feeling, you'd need to at least quadruple the resolution, if not make the headsets 8K. Given the high frame rate requirements, this is impossible with current gen graphics cards. The lenses will need a lot of work. It will also need to go wireless at some point. Probably 8 years away at least.

Loke666 · February 2018

As @laxie said, we aren't there yet. The first thing we need to get rid of is the cables and the device need to become a bit smaller and more comfortable as well.

Right now Vive and Occulus is excellent for simulators so if you like car games or airplane sims they are fine but not for MMOs or FPS games.

We are getting there but we need a generation or 2 more if you want a good experience for something else then sims (and porn of course, there is something that sells tech).

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Virtual reality. Are we there yet?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey