Ungood said: If say, we knew that he thought that he was stating from a much further along time line, (maybe due to work he had already done on his own for example) that would allow us to understand...
...and like I said before, it wouldn't, because you are not a programmer therefore you cannot evaluate the basis of the projection - how much is done, what needs to be done and how much resources it will take.
Trying to judge projects from outsider perspective is simply put, stupid. More qualification and experience you have, less likely you are going to do it...
We shall disagree on this, mainly because Project Management, is it's own skill set, and has nothing to do with ones ability to program.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Ungood said: If say, we knew that he thought that he was stating from a much further along time line, (maybe due to work he had already done on his own for example) that would allow us to understand...
...and like I said before, it wouldn't, because you are not a programmer therefore you cannot evaluate the basis of the projection - how much is done, what needs to be done and how much resources it will take.
Trying to judge projects from outsider perspective is simply put, stupid. More qualification and experience you have, less likely you are going to do it...
That is a ridiculous concept. This is a much simpler one:
Hold people accountable for what THEY say and promise. If the home builder says they will do X in Y time then expect them to do it. If the caterer says they will have X food prepared at Y time then expect the, to do it. If the programmer says they will do X in Y time then expect him to do it.
Shit happens in any profession. That’s why the “professionals” get paid.
Ok. now i know for sure.. you have never dealt with managing a large scale project.. ever.
Lets use something simple that you may grasp.
Lets say you are planning a wedding. So you have several professionals you have to deal with.
Cake
Music
Food
Photo
Now, that is a short list, depending on how good you are, how involved you are, and a slew of other things, your job could be taking care of everything, right down to making sure that the Groomsmen all have matching cuff-links that have the couples initials engraved in them.
But lets go with the simple stuff.
Lets say the baker says they will have your cake ready. No stress, right? It will take at least a week to make it given it's complexity and the design features the couple want involved, it's an expensive ass cake, but .. you gave the baker a month notice, worked with them in the past, and know they can handle it, all is going according to plan.
What happens if they call you two days before the wedding, explain they had a break in, and the thief in their rush dumped flower into the ovens, which started a fire in the shop and they will not be able to make the cake, (I'm not even going to get into how this will affect the other 12 cakes you have ordered from them, for the sake of brevity ).
Now if you think, you get to hold them to the fact they promised you a cake.. you would be dead wrong, because YOU promised the cake.. and YOU contracted out the Baker.. that means YOU are now SOL. and YOU alone will be blamed... Sure, the baker may refund you, but the money is not the real problem at this point
But at least you have 2 days to work with the couple, to try and get them another cake..which will not nor shall it ever be the cake they first wanted, but..they will (maybe) settle, because they understand the situation.
But some times they become insufferable assholes about it, and don't care that things happened, a get off huffy demanding the cake they wanted, on the day they wanted it on.. because you said you could do it....
Yah.. no argument, its your fault they won't get their cake because you are the one in charge. and.. yah.. they wont get their cake, and there is not a damn thing you can do about it either.
Welcome to real world of Project Management.
This is also why.. regardless of the disciplines involved.. people that do Project Management understand each others burdens.
In that regard, I may never become a wedding planner in my life (and I don't want to).. but I understood where the one that planned my wedding was coming from.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Ungood said: If say, we knew that he thought that he was stating from a much further along time line, (maybe due to work he had already done on his own for example) that would allow us to understand...
...and like I said before, it wouldn't, because you are not a programmer therefore you cannot evaluate the basis of the projection - how much is done, what needs to be done and how much resources it will take.
Trying to judge projects from outsider perspective is simply put, stupid. More qualification and experience you have, less likely you are going to do it...
That is a ridiculous concept. This is a much simpler one:
Hold people accountable for what THEY say and promise. If the home builder says they will do X in Y time then expect them to do it. If the caterer says they will have X food prepared at Y time then expect the, to do it. If the programmer says they will do X in Y time then expect him to do it.
Shit happens in any profession. That’s why the “professionals” get paid.
Ok. now i know for sure.. you have never dealt with managing a large scale project.. ever.
Lets use something simple that you may grasp.
Lets say you are planning a wedding. So you have several professionals you have to deal with.
Cake
Music
Food
Photo
Now, that is a short list, depending on how good you are, how involved you are, and a slew of other things, your job could be taking care of everything, right down to making sure that the Groomsmen all have matching cuff-links that have the couples initials engraved in them.
But lets go with the simple stuff.
Lets say the baker says they will have your cake ready. No stress, right? It will take at least a week to make it given it's complexity and the design features the couple want involved, it's an expensive ass cake, but .. you gave the baker a month notice, worked with them in the past, and know they can handle it, all is going according to plan.
What happens if they call you two days before the wedding, explain they had a break in, and the thief in their rush dumped flower into the ovens, which started a fire in the shop and they will not be able to make the cake, (I'm not even going to get into how this will affect the other 12 cakes you have ordered from them, for the sake of brevity ).
Now if you think, you get to hold them to the fact they promised you a cake.. you would be dead wrong, because YOU promised the cake.. and YOU contracted out the Baker.. that means YOU are now SOL. and YOU alone will be blamed... Sure, the baker may refund you, but the money is not the real problem at this point
But at least you have 2 days to work with the couple, to try and get them another cake..which will not nor shall it ever be the cake they first wanted, but..they will (maybe) settle, because they understand the situation.
But some times they become insufferable assholes about it, and don't care that things happened, a get off huffy demanding the cake they wanted, on the day they wanted it on.. because you said you could do it....
Yah.. no argument, its your fault they won't get their cake because you are the one in charge. and.. yah.. they wont get their cake, and there is not a damn thing you can do about it either.
Welcome to real world of Project Management.
This is also why.. regardless of the disciplines involved.. people that do Project Management understand each others burdens.
In that regard, I may never become a wedding planner in my life (and I don't want to).. but I understood where the one that planned my wedding was coming from.
That doesn't really apply here. Jeremy isn't planning an event with several disjointed entities. He was working with one other business, and should've had his own hands on their product during that time. That's not at all the same as calling a baker and receiving word the baker would have the cake ready by X day.
EDIT- also allow me to mention that most all businesses can take out insurance policies for just this reason. If your business depends upon another business providing you with goods to do your job, you can take out a policy to cover liability for your company if your supplier fails to meet the order, causing you to fail to provide your service or good appropriately to your customer.
What's weird to me is the backers seem less upset about the delays then the people that didn't back the game at all lol.
Agreed!! I have wondered about this all along.
Well, make sure you have me in the right column... upset backer.
You can easily sell your pledge on a 3rd party site like I already mentioned. Then you don't have to be a disgruntled backer anymore!
What about legally? If it's anything like other MMORPGs, such account selling transactions are against the ToS.
What account? There is not even a game.. much less an account for that game. As such I highly doubt that you have signed a ToS or an EULA yet, because you have not logged into the game, (which is often where those things are)
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Then again, we still haven't discussed world hunger, the meddling of the Russians and several other interesting things in this thread so I predict at least 1k more of quality posts. How is the state of the studio btw?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
i think world hunger hits after the second week of the game, after everyone went crazy framing the hell out of the game so there is nothing left...
Can't wait to read the salt.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
What's weird to me is the backers seem less upset about the delays then the people that didn't back the game at all lol.
Agreed!! I have wondered about this all along.
Well, make sure you have me in the right column... upset backer.
You can easily sell your pledge on a 3rd party site like I already mentioned. Then you don't have to be a disgruntled backer anymore!
What about legally? If it's anything like other MMORPGs, such account selling transactions are against the ToS.
Even if it is, I'm sure they won't call the video game police on you
I've heard of people using them successfully with no problem but make sure you do your research, to avoid getting ripped off. Use a payment method where you can cancel if need be.
best way to do it is by using a third party broker that is trusted by both the seller and the buyer - that way neither seller nor buyer risk anything - if one party doesn't fulfill their commitment to the third party broker, the other party gets back what they forwarded to the third party broker as their part of the agreement
i myself have brokered several account transactions
What's weird to me is the backers seem less upset about the delays then the people that didn't back the game at all lol.
Agreed!! I have wondered about this all along.
Well, make sure you have me in the right column... upset backer.
You can easily sell your pledge on a 3rd party site like I already mentioned. Then you don't have to be a disgruntled backer anymore!
What about legally? If it's anything like other MMORPGs, such account selling transactions are against the ToS.
What account? There is not even a game.. much less an account for that game. As such I highly doubt that you have signed a ToS or an EULA yet, because you have not logged into the game, (which is often where those things are)
He was talking about the TOS that was already talked on page 4 of this thread.
How did you manage to make three posts on that page without reading what others were posting.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Let. it. go. wow , tired of seeing this post This thread needs locked.
Shame the forum automatically opens this thread every time you visit.....
Oh wait, it doesn't. Walk away, just walk away....
I don’t understand why people who say they support the game would repeatedly bump a thread about the company needing to layoff employees. I said this earlier in the thread when there were maybe 6k views... There are now over 12,000...
/shrug
I mean.. it’s almost like one of those emails when someone spams the whole company and then the next 500 emails are people replying to all asking to be removed from it...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Let. it. go. wow , tired of seeing this post This thread needs locked.
Shame the forum automatically opens this thread every time you visit.....
Oh wait, it doesn't. Walk away, just walk away....
I don’t understand why people who say they support the game would repeatedly bump a thread about the company needing to layoff employees. I said this earlier in the thread when there were maybe 6k views... There are now over 12,000...
/shrug
I mean.. it’s almost like one of those emails when someone spams the whole company and then the next 500 emails are people replying to all asking to be removed from it...
Those are always funny, I remember I sent one of those through an admin-dashboard and forgot that I could opt out from receiving replies.
And the e-mail was just a reminder for a meeting. I got around 100 replies and it buried the actual e-mails I was supposed to read, lol.
What's weird to me is the backers seem less upset about the delays then the people that didn't back the game at all lol.
Agreed!! I have wondered about this all along.
Well, make sure you have me in the right column... upset backer.
You can easily sell your pledge on a 3rd party site like I already mentioned. Then you don't have to be a disgruntled backer anymore!
What about legally? If it's anything like other MMORPGs, such account selling transactions are against the ToS.
What account? There is not even a game.. much less an account for that game. As such I highly doubt that you have signed a ToS or an EULA yet, because you have not logged into the game, (which is often where those things are)
He was talking about the TOS that was already talked on page 4 of this thread.
How did you manage to make three posts on that page without reading what others were posting.
@Slapshot1188 ; will be glad to explain to you that was Browserwear, Browserwarp and not legally binding. Or did you miss our several page long discussion on that subject matter?
Post edited by Ungood on
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
What's weird to me is the backers seem less upset about the delays then the people that didn't back the game at all lol.
Agreed!! I have wondered about this all along.
Well, make sure you have me in the right column... upset backer.
You can easily sell your pledge on a 3rd party site like I already mentioned. Then you don't have to be a disgruntled backer anymore!
What about legally? If it's anything like other MMORPGs, such account selling transactions are against the ToS.
What account? There is not even a game.. much less an account for that game. As such I highly doubt that you have signed a ToS or an EULA yet, because you have not logged into the game, (which is often where those things are)
He was talking about the TOS that was already talked on page 4 of this thread.
How did you manage to make three posts on that page without reading what others were posting.
@Slapshot1188 ; will be glad to explain to you that was Browserwear, Browserwarp and not legally binding. Or did you miss our several page long discussion on that subject matter?
You mean the discussion where just about everyone was agreeing that a TOS is worth less then the paper it’s printed on?
You mean the discussion where just about everyone was agreeing that a TOS is worth less then the paper it’s printed on?
The smart people in that discussion understood that it was being Browserwrap that was what made it worthless.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
And 31 pages later, I'd like to reiterate the obvious:
Hurr Durr. Hurr Durr, indeed ....
Your parents must be proud
Stop trolling, please. It's beneath you!
That wasn't a troll, it was a blatant observation that you seem like no one would want you at a party. Or for that matter, any other time or place. Stop being a sensitive man-child and grow a pair
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And on top of that, trolling isn't beneath Orange Boy. There's a reason he trolls these forums, instead of the CoE forums and discord. Probably got tired of the ban hammer.
Comments
Lets use something simple that you may grasp.
Lets say you are planning a wedding. So you have several professionals you have to deal with.
- Cake
- Music
- Food
- Photo
Now, that is a short list, depending on how good you are, how involved you are, and a slew of other things, your job could be taking care of everything, right down to making sure that the Groomsmen all have matching cuff-links that have the couples initials engraved in them.But lets go with the simple stuff.
Lets say the baker says they will have your cake ready. No stress, right? It will take at least a week to make it given it's complexity and the design features the couple want involved, it's an expensive ass cake, but .. you gave the baker a month notice, worked with them in the past, and know they can handle it, all is going according to plan.
What happens if they call you two days before the wedding, explain they had a break in, and the thief in their rush dumped flower into the ovens, which started a fire in the shop and they will not be able to make the cake, (I'm not even going to get into how this will affect the other 12 cakes you have ordered from them, for the sake of brevity ).
Now if you think, you get to hold them to the fact they promised you a cake.. you would be dead wrong, because YOU promised the cake.. and YOU contracted out the Baker.. that means YOU are now SOL. and YOU alone will be blamed... Sure, the baker may refund you, but the money is not the real problem at this point
But at least you have 2 days to work with the couple, to try and get them another cake..which will not nor shall it ever be the cake they first wanted, but..they will (maybe) settle, because they understand the situation.
But some times they become insufferable assholes about it, and don't care that things happened, a get off huffy demanding the cake they wanted, on the day they wanted it on.. because you said you could do it....
Yah.. no argument, its your fault they won't get their cake because you are the one in charge. and.. yah.. they wont get their cake, and there is not a damn thing you can do about it either.
Welcome to real world of Project Management.
This is also why.. regardless of the disciplines involved.. people that do Project Management understand each others burdens.
In that regard, I may never become a wedding planner in my life (and I don't want to).. but I understood where the one that planned my wedding was coming from.
EDIT- also allow me to mention that most all businesses can take out insurance policies for just this reason. If your business depends upon another business providing you with goods to do your job, you can take out a policy to cover liability for your company if your supplier fails to meet the order, causing you to fail to provide your service or good appropriately to your customer.
Can't wait to read the salt.
I've heard of people using them successfully with no problem but make sure you do your research, to avoid getting ripped off. Use a payment method where you can cancel if need be.
i myself have brokered several account transactions
How did you manage to make three posts on that page without reading what others were posting.
Oh wait, it doesn't. Walk away, just walk away....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
/shrug
I mean.. it’s almost like one of those emails when someone spams the whole company and then the next 500 emails are people replying to all asking to be removed from it...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Those are always funny, I remember I sent one of those through an admin-dashboard and forgot that I could opt out from receiving replies.
And the e-mail was just a reminder for a meeting. I got around 100 replies and it buried the actual e-mails I was supposed to read, lol.
https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/21/nintendo-accused-of-illegally-denying-refunds-on-pre-orders-in-europe/
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon