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  • GorweGorwe Member RarePosts: 4,843
    growill said:
    At some point I grew tired of the pointless RvR that is GW2 and thought "oh look ESO has a system that might be fun"

    But omg the gameplay... so painfully clunky and boring (way after launch). At least GW2 combat is fluid and dynamic and the classes somewhat various and fun. I could not find any fun in ESO classes/combat.

    Sometimes when people ask for a decent pvp mmorpg people say "play eso" and I wonder if maybe I should give it another try then I remember just how bad the class system and gameplay was and I forget about it

    The above is nothing but opinion and preference, and has nothing at all to do with game play.  The giveaway is the poster complaining about ESO's game play being painfully clunky and boring yet presenting as an example of "fun and variance" a game in which, outside of its main quest line, the rest of its game play quests consists of nothing more than fetching and killing monsters until little hearts fill up throughout the entire game.  GW2 is as bland and generic as MMORPGs come.  And without being too critical, bland and generic is pretty much a text book definition of boring.   

    I am exactly the opposite in my game play preference.  Without going into specifics (because that would take a while) I find ESO's game play much deeper, varied, and satisfying than GW2s, beating GW2s game play in every way. GW2's combat is no more fluid and/or dynamic, or its classes no more "somewhat various" (whatever that means) and fun, than ESO's.  This is just a matter of preference and what you have been used to, and conditioned to, playing before giving ESO a chance.

    That said, it is not my nature to rag on games.  Let's just say all of the top MMORPGs (FFXIV, GW2, ESO, WoW) are all good games in their own way, that cater to different play styles, and tone down the unfounded, self serving, and unwarranted criticisms.  They all have their own representative sizable gaming populations for a reason.  It all really boils down to preference and what we have been conditioned to playing prior to giving a new game a chance.



    ESO's combat is kinda weird. Like it doesn't know what it wants to be. Partly action, partly tab target. It's weird.
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited February 19
    Gorwe said:
    growill said:
    At some point I grew tired of the pointless RvR that is GW2 and thought "oh look ESO has a system that might be fun"

    But omg the gameplay... so painfully clunky and boring (way after launch). At least GW2 combat is fluid and dynamic and the classes somewhat various and fun. I could not find any fun in ESO classes/combat.

    Sometimes when people ask for a decent pvp mmorpg people say "play eso" and I wonder if maybe I should give it another try then I remember just how bad the class system and gameplay was and I forget about it

    The above is nothing but opinion and preference, and has nothing at all to do with game play.  The giveaway is the poster complaining about ESO's game play being painfully clunky and boring yet presenting as an example of "fun and variance" a game in which, outside of its main quest line, the rest of its game play quests consists of nothing more than fetching and killing monsters until little hearts fill up throughout the entire game.  GW2 is as bland and generic as MMORPGs come.  And without being too critical, bland and generic is pretty much a text book definition of boring.   

    I am exactly the opposite in my game play preference.  Without going into specifics (because that would take a while) I find ESO's game play much deeper, varied, and satisfying than GW2s, beating GW2s game play in every way. GW2's combat is no more fluid and/or dynamic, or its classes no more "somewhat various" (whatever that means) and fun, than ESO's.  This is just a matter of preference and what you have been used to, and conditioned to, playing before giving ESO a chance.

    That said, it is not my nature to rag on games.  Let's just say all of the top MMORPGs (FFXIV, GW2, ESO, WoW) are all good games in their own way, that cater to different play styles, and tone down the unfounded, self serving, and unwarranted criticisms.  They all have their own representative sizable gaming populations for a reason.  It all really boils down to preference and what we have been conditioned to playing prior to giving a new game a chance.



    ESO's combat is kinda weird. Like it doesn't know what it wants to be. Partly action, partly tab target. It's weird.

    That doesn't make sense.  At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to "partly" tab target lock on any mob.  I don't even think its possible.  A game's combat is always either tab target or action combat.  It simply can not be both at the same time, and ESO is no different in that regard.  Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can not recall if ESO is one of them, but I've never encountered a game in which you can employ both at the same time while in combat.   
    Post edited by LacedOpium on
  • ScorchienScorchien Member EpicPosts: 4,785
    Gorwe said:
    growill said:
    At some point I grew tired of the pointless RvR that is GW2 and thought "oh look ESO has a system that might be fun"

    But omg the gameplay... so painfully clunky and boring (way after launch). At least GW2 combat is fluid and dynamic and the classes somewhat various and fun. I could not find any fun in ESO classes/combat.

    Sometimes when people ask for a decent pvp mmorpg people say "play eso" and I wonder if maybe I should give it another try then I remember just how bad the class system and gameplay was and I forget about it

    The above is nothing but opinion and preference, and has nothing at all to do with game play.  The giveaway is the poster complaining about ESO's game play being painfully clunky and boring yet presenting as an example of "fun and variance" a game in which, outside of its main quest line, the rest of its game play quests consists of nothing more than fetching and killing monsters until little hearts fill up throughout the entire game.  GW2 is as bland and generic as MMORPGs come.  And without being too critical, bland and generic is pretty much a text book definition of boring.   

    I am exactly the opposite in my game play preference.  Without going into specifics (because that would take a while) I find ESO's game play much deeper, varied, and satisfying than GW2s, beating GW2s game play in every way. GW2's combat is no more fluid and/or dynamic, or its classes no more "somewhat various" (whatever that means) and fun, than ESO's.  This is just a matter of preference and what you have been used to, and conditioned to, playing before giving ESO a chance.

    That said, it is not my nature to rag on games.  Let's just say all of the top MMORPGs (FFXIV, GW2, ESO, WoW) are all good games in their own way, that cater to different play styles, and tone down the unfounded, self serving, and unwarranted criticisms.  They all have their own representative sizable gaming populations for a reason.  It all really boils down to preference and what we have been conditioned to playing prior to giving a new game a chance.



    ESO's combat is kinda weird. Like it doesn't know what it wants to be. Partly action, partly tab target. It's weird.

    That doesn't even make sense.  At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob.  I don't even think its possible.  A game's combat is either tab target or action combat.  It simply can not be both at the same time.  Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.     
    yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited February 19
    Scorchien said:
    Gorwe said:


    That doesn't even make sense.  At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob.  I don't even think its possible.  A game's combat is either tab target or action combat.  It simply can not be both at the same time.  Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.     
    yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns

    I have a Bow NB and I have never tab targeted on any mob with my bow while engaged in combat.  If you choose to do that, its on you, because its definitely not necessary unless of course you chose tab targeting as your combat option at the beginning of the game.
    Post edited by LacedOpium on
  • ScorchienScorchien Member EpicPosts: 4,785
    edited February 19
    Scorchien said:
    Gorwe said:


    That doesn't even make sense.  At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob.  I don't even think its possible.  A game's combat is either tab target or action combat.  It simply can not be both at the same time.  Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.     
    yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns

    I have a Bow NB and I have never tab targeted on any mob with my bow while engaged in combat.  If you choose to do that, its on you, because its definitely not necessary unless of course you chose tab targeting as your combat option at the beginning of the game.
    I dont , but you can ... and even without , then you have seen your arrowr trails make those dogleg turns .. this is not indicative of pure action combat
    Post edited by Scorchien on
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited February 19
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
    Gorwe said:


    That doesn't even make sense.  At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob.  I don't even think its possible.  A game's combat is either tab target or action combat.  It simply can not be both at the same time.  Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.     
    yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns

    I have a Bow NB and I have never tab targeted on any mob with my bow while engaged in combat.  If you choose to do that, its on you, because its definitely not necessary unless of course you chose tab targeting as your combat option at the beginning of the game.
    I dont , but you can ... and even without , then you have seen your arrowr trails make those dogleg turns .. this is not indicative of pure action combat

    Of course its pure action combat.  Its as pure as any other MMOs action combat.  Like I said, I have a bow NB.  I should know.  And I have never employed anything resembling tab target combat.  Might want to try another one of the oft mentioned, yet ill-informed, ESO criticisms because, you know, well ... haters.
    Post edited by LacedOpium on
  • ScorchienScorchien Member EpicPosts: 4,785
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
    Gorwe said:


    That doesn't even make sense.  At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob.  I don't even think its possible.  A game's combat is either tab target or action combat.  It simply can not be both at the same time.  Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.     
    yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns

    I have a Bow NB and I have never tab targeted on any mob with my bow while engaged in combat.  If you choose to do that, its on you, because its definitely not necessary unless of course you chose tab targeting as your combat option at the beginning of the game.
    I dont , but you can ... and even without , then you have seen your arrowr trails make those dogleg turns .. this is not indicative of pure action combat

    Of course its pure action combat.  Its as pure as any other MMOs action combat.  Like I said, I have a bow NB.  I should know.  And I have never employed anything resembling tab target combat.  Might want to try another one of the oft mentioned ESO criticisms that also make no sense because, you know, well ... haters.
    erhmm I like ESO , sitting currently at CP 300 , you are mistaken on both counts .. Its not pure action .. Not when you arrows Lock on targets for ex...
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 16,890
    This game is anything but boring to me. It lets me play how I like, do what I like, and go most anywhere I like.

    My complaints with the game are more with how ZoS sells it and how I have to buy the stuff I like.
    silent protagonist, dirty mmo gamer, filthy casual
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
    Gorwe said:


    That doesn't even make sense.  At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob.  I don't even think its possible.  A game's combat is either tab target or action combat.  It simply can not be both at the same time.  Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.     
    yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns

    I have a Bow NB and I have never tab targeted on any mob with my bow while engaged in combat.  If you choose to do that, its on you, because its definitely not necessary unless of course you chose tab targeting as your combat option at the beginning of the game.
    I dont , but you can ... and even without , then you have seen your arrowr trails make those dogleg turns .. this is not indicative of pure action combat

    Of course its pure action combat.  Its as pure as any other MMOs action combat.  Like I said, I have a bow NB.  I should know.  And I have never employed anything resembling tab target combat.  Might want to try another one of the oft mentioned ESO criticisms that also make no sense because, you know, well ... haters.
    erhmm I like ESO , sitting currently at CP 300 , you are mistaken on both counts .. Its not pure action .. Not when you arrows Lock on targets for ex...

    The point when a poster just throws nonsense out there hoping someone who doesn't know better will believe him.  Again, I have a bow NB.  Those who play the game know better partner.    
    TorvalJean-Luc_Picard
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,336
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
    Gorwe said:


    That doesn't even make sense.  At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob.  I don't even think its possible.  A game's combat is either tab target or action combat.  It simply can not be both at the same time.  Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.     
    yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns

    I have a Bow NB and I have never tab targeted on any mob with my bow while engaged in combat.  If you choose to do that, its on you, because its definitely not necessary unless of course you chose tab targeting as your combat option at the beginning of the game.
    I dont , but you can ... and even without , then you have seen your arrowr trails make those dogleg turns .. this is not indicative of pure action combat

    Of course its pure action combat.  Its as pure as any other MMOs action combat.  Like I said, I have a bow NB.  I should know.  And I have never employed anything resembling tab target combat.  Might want to tryanother one of the oft mentioned ESO criticisms that also make no sense because, you know, well ... haters.
    erhmm I like ESO , sitting currently at CP 300 , you are mistaken on both counts .. Its not pure action .. Not when you arrows Lock on targets for ex...
    I think you are confusing action combat and twitch combat. The latter involving say arrows going straight and having to lead targets etc
    IselinTorvalLeiloni

    image

  • Pr3sid3ntSkr00bPr3sid3ntSkr00b Member UncommonPosts: 53
    I personally found the main story quests, side quests, combat, visuals, mobs, character movement all rather lame.  And I REALLY REALLY have given this game multiple tries.  It makes me sad really.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,146
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
    Gorwe said:


    That doesn't even make sense.  At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob.  I don't even think its possible.  A game's combat is either tab target or action combat.  It simply can not be both at the same time.  Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.     
    yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns

    I have a Bow NB and I have never tab targeted on any mob with my bow while engaged in combat.  If you choose to do that, its on you, because its definitely not necessary unless of course you chose tab targeting as your combat option at the beginning of the game.
    I dont , but you can ... and even without , then you have seen your arrowr trails make those dogleg turns .. this is not indicative of pure action combat

    Of course its pure action combat.  Its as pure as any other MMOs action combat.  Like I said, I have a bow NB.  I should know.  And I have never employed anything resembling tab target combat.  Might want to try another one of the oft mentioned ESO criticisms that also make no sense because, you know, well ... haters.
    erhmm I like ESO , sitting currently at CP 300 , you are mistaken on both counts .. Its not pure action .. Not when you arrows Lock on targets for ex...
    Using Tab to target in ESO is not the same as it is in true tab-targeting games. The potential targets you can select using tab are only the ones right in front of you in a rather narrow cone: i.e. the ones you could actually hit if you didn't bother with tab targeting in the first place. It's only useful when you have a crowd right in front of you and you want to select the boss in PVE or a particular player in PVP.

    A lot of tab-targetting games will cycle through targets all around you - even behind you - and many games will actually turn your character to face the enemy if you start casting on something that the tab key found but isn't visible when you try to hit it. ESO's tab key does not work that way at all.

    Arrows curving has nothing to do with tab targeting either. If your target moves after the skill activates the skill will seek the target if it's one of the rare skill that actually has a flight time or is channeled and not instant. But that has nothing to do with tab targeting - it will do that whether you acquired the target using tab or just the normal way by having it dead center in front of you when the skill fired.

    It may not have realistic physics with the flight of arrows etc. but I always thought that type of combat is something other than what is normally meant by "action combat." And TBH, that type of hyper realistic ranged combat is too tediously realistic for me. 

    In ESO you can actively block and dodge and you need to have your target in that narrow frontal cone for you to be able to even begin casting your ability. If that's not action combat, I don't know what is.

    If your have no target in that cone a lot of abilities will just be plain grayed-out. You can fire off your weapon light attacks with nothing in front of you but the arrow or fire ball won't suddenly find a target if one runs into your cone after you do it because the skill-target relationship for all single target abilities is calculated at the time the ability fires. 
    YashaX
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member EpicPosts: 7,224
    edited February 19
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
    Gorwe said:


    That doesn't even make sense.  At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob.  I don't even think its possible.  A game's combat is either tab target or action combat.  It simply can not be both at the same time.  Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.     
    yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns

    I have a Bow NB and I have never tab targeted on any mob with my bow while engaged in combat.  If you choose to do that, its on you, because its definitely not necessary unless of course you chose tab targeting as your combat option at the beginning of the game.
    I dont , but you can ... and even without , then you have seen your arrowr trails make those dogleg turns .. this is not indicative of pure action combat

    Of course its pure action combat.  Its as pure as any other MMOs action combat.  Like I said, I have a bow NB.  I should know.  And I have never employed anything resembling tab target combat.  Might want to try another one of the oft mentioned ESO criticisms that also make no sense because, you know, well ... haters.
    erhmm I like ESO , sitting currently at CP 300 , you are mistaken on both counts .. Its not pure action .. Not when you arrows Lock on targets for ex...

    The point when a poster just throws nonsense out there hoping someone who doesn't know better will believe him.  Again, I have a bow NB.  Those who play the game know better partner.    
    I'm also using a bow on two characters. Of course you are right.
    I'd like to add that using tab targeting in ESO is counter productive.
    Post edited by Jean-Luc_Picard on
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  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 8,206
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    YashaXTorvalKalebGrayson

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • GorweGorwe Member RarePosts: 4,843
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    Only most of it. Because after walking / travelling, combat is the second most common activity. I mean, the game's ok. But it's easily beaten on all fronts. Story? Why not play SWTOR or TSW or LoTR:O? Or any of multiple single player games? Combat? TERA, Blade n Soul, Guild Wars 2 and the like completely demolish it from Action Combat side. From the Classic Combat side, there is a lot of choice too. WoW, SWTOR, LoTR:O, EQ 2 etc. So what IS the EXACT REASON why a person should play ESO? IP?
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,267
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    Only most of it. Because after walking / travelling, combat is the second most common activity. I mean, the game's ok. But it's easily beaten on all fronts. Story? Why not play SWTOR or TSW or LoTR:O? Or any of multiple single player games? Combat? TERA, Blade n Soul, Guild Wars 2 and the like completely demolish it from Action Combat side. From the Classic Combat side, there is a lot of choice too. WoW, SWTOR, LoTR:O, EQ 2 etc. So what IS the EXACT REASON why a person should play ESO? IP?

    First, the combat is actually pretty interesting; I like combat in GW2 better overall, but the active blocking and stamina system as opposed to ability cool downs is a breath of fresh air, and I  always miss it when I play another mmo.

    I don't particularly like pve in any mmo, but I have to admit that the dungeons and IC in ESO have some of the best pve I have experienced in any mmo.

    The crafting system and choice of equipment/styles of equipment is amazing; there are no mmos apart from ESO that I have played where crafting is both interesting and useful from level 1 right through to end game, and the diversity of styles of armor you can make is staggering.

    Character development and build choices are similarly staggering and open: perhaps the most open in any mmo, but certainly more robust and interesting than other mmos that I have played.

    The actual world itself is well built and has some beautiful areas; the way things like lunar cycles and the tides actually have an impact on gameplay is wonderful, and there are many other little secrets tucked away that probably aren't apparent to people that have not taken the time to immerse themselves in the world, its lore, and community.

    But personally, the crowning jewel in the game and the main reason I play this over other mmos is the RvR. Atm no other game combines solid gameplay, great build diversity, and exhilarating combat with a robust and well designed RvR system. WvW in GW2 might also be good, but for various reasons I was never able to get into it.

    Anyway, I think I've written more than anyone here is likely to read so I'll stop there ;)
    RexKushmanLacedOpium
    ....
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 8,206
    edited February 19
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    Only most of it. Because after walking / travelling, combat is the second most common activity. I mean, the game's ok. But it's easily beaten on all fronts. Story? Why not play SWTOR or TSW or LoTR:O? Or any of multiple single player games? Combat? TERA, Blade n Soul, Guild Wars 2 and the like completely demolish it from Action Combat side. From the Classic Combat side, there is a lot of choice too. WoW, SWTOR, LoTR:O, EQ 2 etc. So what IS the EXACT REASON why a person should play ESO? IP?
    You do seem to have moved the hut ball goalposts but OK.

    What you are doing is looking at elements of a good MMO, picking the best there is and then saying ESO is not one of them. But TERA for example does not do that well in story, so no good MMO can be great at everything. Also I did say modern MMO, not sure WoW, EQ2 or even SWTOR count, but I will run with them.


    ESO is first or second league at everything that makes a MMO great, not many other MMOs can say that.

    Story 1st League: Lotro, TSW, SWTOR 
    Story 2nd League: ESO, WoW, EQ 2
    Story 3rd League: TERA, Guild Wars 2, BDO

    Combat 1st League: PS2, WoW, Lotro
    Combat 2nd League: SWTOR, EQ 2, TERA, ESO, BDO
    Combat 3rd League: TSW

    As you can see I am not a fan of action combat, well I am but I want to see it implemented better. Not tied to trinity, but it has to be a great system to replace trinity, only MMO(ish) action combat I would put in first league is a MMOFPS.

    Then there are very important elements you do not even consider, I don't have time to go through them all:

    Community 1st League: Lotro, ESO, TSW
    Community 2nd League: Marvel Heroes ( amazed it was good), EQ 2, SWTOR, WoW
    Community 3rd League: TERA, GW2, BDO

    Graphics 1st League: BDO 
    Graphics 2nd League: The Rest - ESO and TSW at the top end, GW2 bottom.
    Graphics 3rd League: WoW, Marvel Heroes

    We could add the feeling of a thriving economy, I would put BDO in top league there.


    So for me ESO scores high enough to warrant being a great MMO. But these categories miss the gestalt you feel of how good a MMO is when playing, there ESO is one of my top four MMOs: Lotro, ESO, TSW, SWTOR.
    Post edited by Scot on
    YashaXGorweLeiloni

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited February 19
    YashaX said:
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    Only most of it. Because after walking / travelling, combat is the second most common activity. I mean, the game's ok. But it's easily beaten on all fronts. Story? Why not play SWTOR or TSW or LoTR:O? Or any of multiple single player games? Combat? TERA, Blade n Soul, Guild Wars 2 and the like completely demolish it from Action Combat side. From the Classic Combat side, there is a lot of choice too. WoW, SWTOR, LoTR:O, EQ 2 etc. So what IS the EXACT REASON why a person should play ESO? IP?

    First, the combat is actually pretty interesting; I like combat in GW2 better overall, but the active blocking and stamina system as opposed to ability cool downs is a breath of fresh air, and I  always miss it when I play another mmo.

    I don't particularly like pve in any mmo, but I have to admit that the dungeons and IC in ESO have some of the best pve I have experienced in any mmo.

    The crafting system and choice of equipment/styles of equipment is amazing; there are no mmos apart from ESO that I have played where crafting is both interesting and useful from level 1 right through to end game, and the diversity of styles of armor you can make is staggering.

    Character development and build choices are similarly staggering and open: perhaps the most open in any mmo, but certainly more robust and interesting than other mmos that I have played.

    The actual world itself is well built and has some beautiful areas; the way things like lunar cycles and the tides actually have an impact on gameplay is wonderful, and there are many other little secrets tucked away that probably aren't apparent to people that have not taken the time to immerse themselves in the world, its lore, and community.

    But personally, the crowning jewel in the game and the main reason I play this over other mmos is the RvR. Atm no other game combines solid gameplay, great build diversity, and exhilarating combat with a robust and well designed RvR system. WvW in GW2 might also be good, but for various reasons I was never able to get into it.

    Anyway, I think I've written more than anyone here is likely to read so I'll stop there ;)

    Nice post YashaX.  One other aspect of the game that you didn't mention, and I don't blame you because there are many, is the exploration aspect of the game which ESO shines in, and does better than any other MMORPG by a mile.  I mean, exploring in ESO is not only a joy, but also profitable and worthwhile.  ESO encourages exploration with great rewards in the form of gear (treasure chests), gold, skyshards, lore books/bookshelves which advance skill lines, unexpected and revealing secrets via dialogue with the various NPCs, delve dungeons, recipes, gear motifs, necessary crafting materials, etc. 

    The troubling aspect of Gorwe's post is that his dissent with the game happens to be that not only does ESO not do any ONE thing better that any other one game may do right, but that it doesn't do EVERYTHING better than the combination of EVERY other game at the one thing EVERY other game does right.  In other words, that the game isn't perfect in every way over all other games combined.  That's a high standard to meet for any one game since no game should be expected to be better than the combination of features of every other game.  Find me that game, and that will be the game that 100% of the population will be playing because why play anything else?   

    In conclusion, and to answer Gorwe's question as to why "IS the EXACT REASON" why a person should play ESO over the others is because even though other games may do any one thing better than ESO (and that is subjective), overall, and taking all things into consideration, ESOs combination of activities does more things right than any other game.  In other words, ESO may not be the "Master" of one thing (again subjective) but it certainly is the master of "Jack Of All Things."


      
    Post edited by LacedOpium on
    ScotYashaXIselinGorweLeiloni
  • GorweGorwe Member RarePosts: 4,843
    Scot said:
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    Only most of it. Because after walking / travelling, combat is the second most common activity. I mean, the game's ok. But it's easily beaten on all fronts. Story? Why not play SWTOR or TSW or LoTR:O? Or any of multiple single player games? Combat? TERA, Blade n Soul, Guild Wars 2 and the like completely demolish it from Action Combat side. From the Classic Combat side, there is a lot of choice too. WoW, SWTOR, LoTR:O, EQ 2 etc. So what IS the EXACT REASON why a person should play ESO? IP?
    You do seem to have moved the hut ball goalposts but OK.

    What you are doing is looking at elements of a good MMO, picking the best there is and then saying ESO is not one of them. But TERA for example does not do that well in story, so no good MMO can be great at everything. Also I did say modern MMO, not sure WoW, EQ2 or even SWTOR count, but I will run with them.


    ESO is first or second league at everything that makes a MMO great, not many other MMOs can say that.

    Story 1st League: Lotro, TSW, SWTOR 
    Story 2nd League: ESO, WoW, EQ 2
    Story 3rd League: TERA, Guild Wars 2, BDO

    Combat 1st League: PS2, WoW, Lotro
    Combat 2nd League: SWTOR, EQ 2, TERA, ESO, BDO
    Combat 3rd League: TSW

    As you can see I am not a fan of action combat, well I am but I want to see it implemented better. Not tied to trinity, but it has to be a great system to replace trinity, only MMO(ish) action combat I would put in first league is a MMOFPS.

    Then there are very important elements you do not even consider, I don't have time to go through them all:

    Community 1st League: Lotro, ESO, TSW
    Community 2nd League: Marvel Heroes ( amazed it was good), EQ 2, SWTOR, WoW
    Community 3rd League: TERA, GW2, BDO

    Graphics 1st League: BDO 
    Graphics 2nd League: The Rest - ESO and TSW at the top end, GW2 bottom.
    Graphics 3rd League: WoW, Marvel Heroes

    We could add the feeling of a thriving economy, I would put BDO in top league there.


    So for me ESO scores high enough to warrant being a great MMO. But these categories miss the gestalt you feel of how good a MMO is when playing, there ESO is one of my top four MMOs: Lotro, ESO, TSW, SWTOR.
    Yeah, I do disregard community quite a bit, don't I? Even if community is toxic as fuck, as long as a game provides entertainment, I'll be there. In fact, sometimes I even prefer such environment due to how I can get lost talking about everything.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 16,890
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    How they're monetization has evolved is my one big gripe and it's mostly with the cash shop. I don't mind buying a DLC every quarter or paying for one with cash instead of tokens. I don't mind the cash shop, but it's that they put nearly everything in there and it's mostly all cosmetic stuff you'd earn in another game. It's almost to Neverwinter levels of cash shop hell.

    Here's an ESO tweet that showed up on my feed today selling the Commander Personality (now in the cash shop). 

    That is the last thing I was interested in seeing this morning from ZoS and ESO. Yet another thing and piece of the game I'm buying in the cash shop, broken out from the box fee. It robs the value of the box fee for me. I'm just sick of getting deluged with "acceptable non-P2W" pieces of the game being sold ala carte.

    ZoS isn't the only offender. I'm reviewing Closers right now and there is a really cool side scrolling fighter game beneath a suffocating layer of monetization.
    KalebGraysonYashaX
    silent protagonist, dirty mmo gamer, filthy casual
  • GorweGorwe Member RarePosts: 4,843
    Torval said:
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    How they're monetization has evolved is my one big gripe and it's mostly with the cash shop. I don't mind buying a DLC every quarter or paying for one with cash instead of tokens. I don't mind the cash shop, but it's that they put nearly everything in there and it's mostly all cosmetic stuff you'd earn in another game. It's almost to Neverwinter levels of cash shop hell.

    Here's an ESO tweet that showed up on my feed today selling the Commander Personality (now in the cash shop). 

    That is the last thing I was interested in seeing this morning from ZoS and ESO. Yet another thing and piece of the game I'm buying in the cash shop, broken out from the box fee. It robs the value of the box fee for me. I'm just sick of getting deluged with "acceptable non-P2W" pieces of the game being sold ala carte.

    ZoS isn't the only offender. I'm reviewing Closers right now and there is a really cool side scrolling fighter game beneath a suffocating layer of monetization.
    7 Euro? Lol that's nothing for an entire armor set. I saw Revan's(or Kylo's) Lightsaber being sold for FOURTY EURO in SWTOR. I can almost buy an entire game for that money. Infact, double that amount and I can purchase a "real" lightsaber. lol fml. But that's open market for you.
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 8,206
    Torval said:
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    How they're monetization has evolved is my one big gripe and it's mostly with the cash shop. I don't mind buying a DLC every quarter or paying for one with cash instead of tokens. I don't mind the cash shop, but it's that they put nearly everything in there and it's mostly all cosmetic stuff you'd earn in another game. It's almost to Neverwinter levels of cash shop hell.

    That is the last thing I was interested in seeing this morning from ZoS and ESO. Yet another thing and piece of the game I'm buying in the cash shop, broken out from the box fee. It robs the value of the box fee for me. I'm just sick of getting deluged with "acceptable non-P2W" pieces of the game being sold ala carte.

    ZoS isn't the only offender. I'm reviewing Closers right now and there is a really cool side scrolling fighter game beneath a suffocating layer of monetization.
    As long as its not P2W I don't see the issue and they can't answer for Twitter, remove them if its too much.

    If you remember MMOs are all about Honour, Loyalty and Valour you can't go wrong. ;)

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  • GorweGorwe Member RarePosts: 4,843
    edited February 19
    Scot said:
    Torval said:
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    How they're monetization has evolved is my one big gripe and it's mostly with the cash shop. I don't mind buying a DLC every quarter or paying for one with cash instead of tokens. I don't mind the cash shop, but it's that they put nearly everything in there and it's mostly all cosmetic stuff you'd earn in another game. It's almost to Neverwinter levels of cash shop hell.

    That is the last thing I was interested in seeing this morning from ZoS and ESO. Yet another thing and piece of the game I'm buying in the cash shop, broken out from the box fee. It robs the value of the box fee for me. I'm just sick of getting deluged with "acceptable non-P2W" pieces of the game being sold ala carte.

    ZoS isn't the only offender. I'm reviewing Closers right now and there is a really cool side scrolling fighter game beneath a suffocating layer of monetization.
    As long as its not P2W I don't see the issue and they can't answer for Twitter, remove them if its too much.

    If you remember MMOs are all about Honour, Loyalty and Valour you can't go wrong. ;)
    Loyalty? Perhaps(especially when it comes to "subscription loyalty"). I can't see various Nightblades, Rogues and such being "Honorable and Valorous" though. ;)
    Post edited by Gorwe on
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 4,599
    edited February 19
    Gorwe said:
    Torval said:
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    How they're monetization has evolved is my one big gripe and it's mostly with the cash shop. I don't mind buying a DLC every quarter or paying for one with cash instead of tokens. I don't mind the cash shop, but it's that they put nearly everything in there and it's mostly all cosmetic stuff you'd earn in another game. It's almost to Neverwinter levels of cash shop hell.

    Here's an ESO tweet that showed up on my feed today selling the Commander Personality (now in the cash shop). 

    That is the last thing I was interested in seeing this morning from ZoS and ESO. Yet another thing and piece of the game I'm buying in the cash shop, broken out from the box fee. It robs the value of the box fee for me. I'm just sick of getting deluged with "acceptable non-P2W" pieces of the game being sold ala carte.

    ZoS isn't the only offender. I'm reviewing Closers right now and there is a really cool side scrolling fighter game beneath a suffocating layer of monetization.
    7 Euro? Lol that's nothing for an entire armor set. I saw Revan's(or Kylo's) Lightsaber being sold for FOURTY EURO in SWTOR. I can almost buy an entire game for that money. Infact, double that amount and I can purchase a "real" lightsaber. lol fml. But that's open market for you.
    Lol FFXIV (a p2p game) sells emotes for that price 7$ or something and they are also for only one character. Same goes for most outfits and some mounts being one character exclusive. Even some outfits are gender restricted, so if you gender swap you'll have to buy that outfit again for the gender. It wouldn't surprise me if they started selling racial stuff eventually. I mean, we're in an era where we have to praise companies for not having loot boxes while still having a frickton of other micro-transactions.
    Post edited by Albatroes on
    GorweScotYashaX
  • GorweGorwe Member RarePosts: 4,843
    Albatroes said:
    Gorwe said:
    Torval said:
    Scot said:
    It is the best modern AAA MMO out there, but I can't speak for the cash shop or how that's effected gameplay. Anyway in his original post the OP only had issues with combat, that hardly makes the whole game "boring".
    How they're monetization has evolved is my one big gripe and it's mostly with the cash shop. I don't mind buying a DLC every quarter or paying for one with cash instead of tokens. I don't mind the cash shop, but it's that they put nearly everything in there and it's mostly all cosmetic stuff you'd earn in another game. It's almost to Neverwinter levels of cash shop hell.

    Here's an ESO tweet that showed up on my feed today selling the Commander Personality (now in the cash shop). 

    That is the last thing I was interested in seeing this morning from ZoS and ESO. Yet another thing and piece of the game I'm buying in the cash shop, broken out from the box fee. It robs the value of the box fee for me. I'm just sick of getting deluged with "acceptable non-P2W" pieces of the game being sold ala carte.

    ZoS isn't the only offender. I'm reviewing Closers right now and there is a really cool side scrolling fighter game beneath a suffocating layer of monetization.
    7 Euro? Lol that's nothing for an entire armor set. I saw Revan's(or Kylo's) Lightsaber being sold for FOURTY EURO in SWTOR. I can almost buy an entire game for that money. Infact, double that amount and I can purchase a "real" lightsaber. lol fml. But that's open market for you.
    Lol FFXIV (a p2p game) sells emotes for that price 7$ or something and they are also for only one character. Same goes for most outfits and some mounts being one character exclusive. Even some outfits are gender restricted, so if you gender swap you'll have to buy that outfit again for the gender. It wouldn't surprise me if they started selling racial stuff eventually.
    But "it's only COSMETICS! They don't matter!". As I always say, I've next to nothing against Open Markets, but these people are pushing it too far. A line must be drawn! This far and no further! To hell with everyone crossing it.
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