I can't see either revitalising the AAA market in the west.
First, there are the cultural issues. Not only in terms of our preferences for payment models, but actually being able to connect to the lore and the worlds. Like it or not, the west loves medieval-style high fantasy. Swords and shields, bows and arrows, orcs, elves and dragons. Thats what we love and that's what we connect to.
Second, gameplay. A:IR sounds like it is taking a different approach to gameplay so maybe it stands half a hope, but Bless sounds like more of the same so will not do well. I still feel like the majority of MMO designers still don't understand the fundamentals of the genre and what it takes to design a compelling massively multiplayer game.
Finally, marketing. To be a hit, you have to get the marketing right. I haven't witnessed much evidence from either game that they're on top of their marketing. I might be wrong though, maybe they'll turn on their marketing engine closer to launch.
In current state - Bless will only disappoint. The Korean devs are making a HUGE mistake letting an unfinished version on Steam be the firsr impression in the west.
AIR - too little is known to make an educated opinion at this time.
coming from a devout WoW fan, I'll take 2 grains of salt.
I'll take niche over theme park treadmills any day of the week.
Good for you...
To revitalize an interest in AAA games requires a demonstration of mass market appeal to justify the cost, something that at least WoW historically achieved and somewhat maintains.
No matter how good a game scratches a niche it will at best inspire more niche, and as such won't revitalize anything.
What is there to revitalize? What the fuck are you even talking about. The only people complaining that the market is stale are WoW players. THe only people whining are "WoW players. There are hundred of millions of non-wow players enjoying many types of games.
For real, Black Desert is populated, Blade and Soul Populated, GW 2 is populated, Eve is populated. This fallacy that a genre is dead because WoW is still losing players, is not only redundant but ignorantly misleading.
WoWplayer says "Boo hoo im not happy in the genre, so sniffle sniffle its dead and needs revitalized. "
Tjhe Mars Orbital death ray says "Get the fuck out of here with the whiny bullshit"
Interesting. Because all the "boohoo the genre is dying" nonsense I hear comes from people that don't like WoW. I have never, ever heard WoW players complain about this. Its the group that keeps calling every other MMO a WoW clone and WoW a dumb kiddie game that keep on whining about the death and decay of the genre. I have been around here for a fair while and have never seen what you describe. The opposite though? Many a time.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Hell if I was going to write an article on something revitalizing the genre it would be classic WoW.
Absolutely. But when you have an anti WoW agenda going on it is easy to bend the truth to fit your narrative.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Perfect avatar .
Definitely! Shaun the sheep is the leader of the flock, very smart and always keeps his head (thank you Wiki). He is also the product of an amazingly talented studio called Aardman Productions who are also responsible for Wallace and Grommit and Chicken Run. They are well known for their high quality work and have even recieved an Emmy for it.
So thank you, quite the compliment!
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
They just want to level up fast and get lots of 733T LOOT or PvP and PWN noobs and get all their drops. Well, that's exactly what's ruining MMO"RPG"s for the rest of us!
This is literally the mindset of nearly every console mmo player currently playing either FF XIV or ESO.. They get so pissed off even if you stop to listen to story bits during a first time dungeon run.
Cash shop will determine how successful these games are in the west, not the actual gameplay. Sad, but true.
If there's a 1% chance upgrade system that requires a cash shop item for a guaranteed success rate, it's all over. Black Desert has managed to fool a lot of people into ignoring it's P2W aspect since the game has lots of other unique features that distract people from it. A:IR and Bless don't look like they will be able to pull that off.
literally just quoted why black desert is not a p2w game wtg bro lol. i havnt bought anything in black desert.only p2w if your forced into paying for upgrades which we are not.
Cash shop will determine how successful these games are in the west, not the actual gameplay. Sad, but true.
If there's a 1% chance upgrade system that requires a cash shop item for a guaranteed success rate, it's all over. Black Desert has managed to fool a lot of people into ignoring it's P2W aspect since the game has lots of other unique features that distract people from it. A:IR and Bless don't look like they will be able to pull that off.
literally just quoted why black desert is not a p2w game wtg bro lol. i havnt bought anything in black desert.only p2w if your forced into paying for upgrades which we are not.
Sounds like you just haven't progressed enough yet or aren't competitive.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Im the other way no PvE only game is gonna save the genre atleast for me, PvE is always tedious and boring nothing unexpected happens and alsong as u can dance through some hoops/simple instructions (That get easier when people cry its to hard) it just becomes a lackluster game
Bill, neither game really has the capacity to refresh a old, worn out formula thats well past its use by date. I've been following Bless for quite some time. Its graphics look GREAT, but its game play...Not so much. I seriously doubt that either will do all that well in the west, these days. I wish them both the best of luck, but I'm not expecting much from either.
A:IR has a shot based on the influx of cash Kakao just got. It will be interesting to see if they give it the polish and localization work necessary to succeed in the west.
This site has not been posting anything that says we need to revitalize the genre. So what is the true agenda of this thread,simple click bait or a witty way to endorse business partners or proposed partners in crime?
Search site for the word "numbers".Notice how many threads this site has been posting that boast big year,big numbers,big sales,great year incoming yada yada.Wow loves to boast big numbers,GW2 goty,Rift been a long time endorsed product,VERY old games still out there making money EQ.FFXI,Ultima.So now all of a sudden we need to revitalize,hmmm yeah something looks way off here. Bill has been basically saying he wants badly to play every single game they make a thread on ,so yeah where is this revitalizing coming from?This is like creating a double standard.
AIR is going to need to change the way air vehicles fly if they want players to feel engaged.
That is a SIMPLE gimmick to entice people.Everything flying entices sales,it did for Aion,flying mounts are huge sales in games,Airships or any kind of in the air stuff is intriguing to gamer's,so it sells,it can even sell a weak product.Just look at SC people were spending MORE ,WAY more than any game is worth on ships before there was even a game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This site has not been posting anything that says we need to revitalize the genre. So what is the true agenda of this thread,simple click bait or a witty way to endorse business partners or proposed partners in crime?
Search site for the word "numbers".Notice how many threads this site has been posting that boast big year,big numbers,big sales,great year incoming yada yada.Wow loves to boast big numbers,GW2 goty,Rift been a long time endorsed product,VERY old games still out there making money EQ.FFXI,Ultima.So now all of a sudden we need to revitalize,hmmm yeah something looks way off here. Bill has been basically saying he wants badly to play every single game they make a thread on ,so yeah where is this revitalizing coming from?This is like creating a double standard.
AIR is going to need to change the way air vehicles fly if they want players to feel engaged.
That is a SIMPLE gimmick to entice people.Everything flying entices sales,it did for Aion,flying mounts are huge sales in games,Airships or any kind of in the air stuff is intriguing to gamer's,so it sells,it can even sell a weak product.Just look at SC people were spending MORE ,WAY more than any game is worth on ships before there was even a game.
This site has not been posting anything that says we need to revitalize the genre. So what is the true agenda of this thread,simple click bait or a witty way to endorse business partners or proposed partners in crime?
Search site for the word "numbers".Notice how many threads this site has been posting that boast big year,big numbers,big sales,great year incoming yada yada.Wow loves to boast big numbers,GW2 goty,Rift been a long time endorsed product,VERY old games still out there making money EQ.FFXI,Ultima.So now all of a sudden we need to revitalize,hmmm yeah something looks way off here. Bill has been basically saying he wants badly to play every single game they make a thread on ,so yeah where is this revitalizing coming from?This is like creating a double standard.
AIR is going to need to change the way air vehicles fly if they want players to feel engaged.
That is a SIMPLE gimmick to entice people.Everything flying entices sales,it did for Aion,flying mounts are huge sales in games,Airships or any kind of in the air stuff is intriguing to gamer's,so it sells,it can even sell a weak product.Just look at SC people were spending MORE ,WAY more than any game is worth on ships before there was even a game.
Here I am on pain pills feeling a bit loopy and trying to read through that... all I could think was man, I need to lay off these pills because this is making no sense at all. Glad it wasn't just me.
This site has not been posting anything that says we need to revitalize the genre. So what is the true agenda of this thread,simple click bait or a witty way to endorse business partners or proposed partners in crime?
Search site for the word "numbers".Notice how many threads this site has been posting that boast big year,big numbers,big sales,great year incoming yada yada.Wow loves to boast big numbers,GW2 goty,Rift been a long time endorsed product,VERY old games still out there making money EQ.FFXI,Ultima.So now all of a sudden we need to revitalize,hmmm yeah something looks way off here. Bill has been basically saying he wants badly to play every single game they make a thread on ,so yeah where is this revitalizing coming from?This is like creating a double standard.
AIR is going to need to change the way air vehicles fly if they want players to feel engaged.
That is a SIMPLE gimmick to entice people.Everything flying entices sales,it did for Aion,flying mounts are huge sales in games,Airships or any kind of in the air stuff is intriguing to gamer's,so it sells,it can even sell a weak product.Just look at SC people were spending MORE ,WAY more than any game is worth on ships before there was even a game.
Here I am on pain pills feeling a bit loopy and trying to read through that... all I could think was man, I need to lay off these pills because this is making no sense at all. Glad it wasn't just me.
Nah brotha. It ain't the pills. I figured that video was pretty fitting, heh.
No PvP based MMO is going to revitalize the genre...nor is a Korean MMO since they are based on an insane level of mind numbing grind unless that grind is instanced, group/raid based grind.
It just does not appeal to western MMO players.
What the genre needs is an enema of big companies that are looking at profits first and game second and get back to making games that are based on fun and depth and variety.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I am really sick of those guns actions called RPG.
Anything went with guns is not what a RPG player is expecting.
Those dumb things destroyed a lot of nice MMO's which had a chance to be something.
The rest were destroyed by the developers which failed to fit the expectations and always weighted toward the console players at the end, which always turns a complete devastation for the genre.
Black Desert Online ?! - well.. I personally could give it 6 out of 10.
( because I am generous god ) but what inovation is it actually making ?! Just better graphic ?!
Well.. it's more or less a hack and slash game with some rpg elements.
But since there is complete lack of remote spell casters I can barely fit it in my imaginations about RPG.
So.. Yeah MMO's could have their chance, but they should actually look what for instance Runes of Magic is and go forward and improve this system.
MMOs aren't dead and don't need "reviving". As usual with this site, they just refuse to give coverage to all the smaller studios who can't/won't afford to bribe them for a positive review.
Anyone can look at the MMO games list on this site and see all of the games that this site doesn't do stories on. They would rather create click-bait articles even if it's about single-player fps games that aren't even MMOs.
Comments
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
First, there are the cultural issues. Not only in terms of our preferences for payment models, but actually being able to connect to the lore and the worlds. Like it or not, the west loves medieval-style high fantasy. Swords and shields, bows and arrows, orcs, elves and dragons. Thats what we love and that's what we connect to.
Second, gameplay. A:IR sounds like it is taking a different approach to gameplay so maybe it stands half a hope, but Bless sounds like more of the same so will not do well. I still feel like the majority of MMO designers still don't understand the fundamentals of the genre and what it takes to design a compelling massively multiplayer game.
Finally, marketing. To be a hit, you have to get the marketing right. I haven't witnessed much evidence from either game that they're on top of their marketing. I might be wrong though, maybe they'll turn on their marketing engine closer to launch.
So thank you, quite the compliment!
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
This is literally the mindset of nearly every console mmo player currently playing either FF XIV or ESO.. They get so pissed off even if you stop to listen to story bits during a first time dungeon run.
"Gamerz" through and through.
literally just quoted why black desert is not a p2w game wtg bro lol. i havnt bought anything in black desert.only p2w if your forced into paying for upgrades which we are not.
Im the other way no PvE only game is gonna save the genre
Joined - July 2004
So what is the true agenda of this thread,simple click bait or a witty way to endorse business partners or proposed partners in crime?
Search site for the word "numbers".Notice how many threads this site has been posting that boast big year,big numbers,big sales,great year incoming yada yada.Wow loves to boast big numbers,GW2 goty,Rift been a long time endorsed product,VERY old games still out there making money EQ.FFXI,Ultima.So now all of a sudden we need to revitalize,hmmm yeah something looks way off here.
Bill has been basically saying he wants badly to play every single game they make a thread on ,so yeah where is this revitalizing coming from?This is like creating a double standard.
That is a SIMPLE gimmick to entice people.Everything flying entices sales,it did for Aion,flying mounts are huge sales in games,Airships or any kind of in the air stuff is intriguing to gamer's,so it sells,it can even sell a weak product.Just look at SC people were spending MORE ,WAY more than any game is worth on ships before there was even a game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It just does not appeal to western MMO players.
What the genre needs is an enema of big companies that are looking at profits first and game second and get back to making games that are based on fun and depth and variety.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Ditto. I'd confidently bet money against it. Any takers?
Anything went with guns is not what a RPG player is expecting.
Those dumb things destroyed a lot of nice MMO's which had a chance to be something.
The rest were destroyed by the developers which failed to fit the expectations and always weighted toward the console players at the end, which always turns a complete devastation for the genre.
Black Desert Online ?! - well.. I personally could give it 6 out of 10.
( because I am generous god ) but what inovation is it actually making ?! Just better graphic ?!
Well.. it's more or less a hack and slash game with some rpg elements.
But since there is complete lack of remote spell casters I can barely fit it in my imaginations about RPG.
So.. Yeah MMO's could have their chance, but they should actually look what for instance Runes of Magic is and go forward and improve this system.
Anyone can look at the MMO games list on this site and see all of the games that this site doesn't do stories on. They would rather create click-bait articles even if it's about single-player fps games that aren't even MMOs.