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Xbox One X Official Review: The PC Gamer’s Console - MMORPG.com

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  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    If I had a 4K TV I would get one. :)
  • KeushpuppyKeushpuppy Member UncommonPosts: 171

    Dauzqul said:

    Until consoles include keyboard and PROPER mouse support (raw mouse / 1:1), the console will always be limited to caveman-like gameplay. There is only so much you can do with a controller. As far as graphics and performance, yes... consoles can certainly compete. However, I won't touch one simply because of the limited controls / horrid community.



    Same here at my age and condtion of my hands it has to be keyboard/mouse.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,885
    Persona 5 alone is worth the PS .I also prefer the JRPGs so PS it is for me too.
    AeanderRidelynncheyane

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,821
    kitarad said:
    Persona 5 alone is worth the PS .I also prefer the JRPGs so PS it is for me too.
    Agreed. It was my game of the year by leaps and bounds.
    Ridelynn
  • HuntrezzHuntrezz Member UncommonPosts: 92
    I am fortunate in the fact I have access to a PC, Xbox one and PS4. I do understand the argument of wanting a mouse and keyboard. Many games on console don't support keyboard and mouse. Having played all of them, I prefer a PC for many of the games I like given a choice. When it comes to sport games, the consoles are much better choices imo. When choosing between consoles, benefits aside, the exclusive games and experience is better on a PS4. The fluidity and gameplay on the PS4 creates a better experience as well as many of the exclusive games being fun and great games on the PS4. From just a gamers perspective, I feel the Xbox one is behind the PS4 when it comes to quality of games from a console experience. I also feel Microsoft is double dipping in a lot of ways but I that is a whole different discussion.
    [Deleted User]
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  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    Nothing is moving me away from pc gaming unless I'm forced. It's just a better way to game.
  • SiveriaSiveria Member UncommonPosts: 1,416
    I'd have called the ps4 the pc gamers console, for one reason, it has games, the xbone has crap pretty much, no real exclusives or anything. One of the biggest draws to pc gaming is the amount and variety of games, something which the xbone severely lacks. Giving the Xbrick MHW was bascally a godsend as it finally has a decent game on it worth buying thats not on pc yet. Sorry but generic fps #9271635 on xbone just doesn't do it for alot of people. Pratcally everyone I know who bought a xbone ended up regreting it and wishing they got a ps4 instead, just because the ps4 has far more games and a better variety of games. Alot of these people were x360 fans too. There is a reason why xbone sales are shit, its the lack of games. A console can be as powerful as it wants, but that means nothing if it has no games to speak of.

    I know xbone has the most powerful console atm I believe, but its lack of games means it still falls far behind the weaker ps4. Its been proven gamers want games, not console specs. Games is what the xbone is weakest at and its never going to change. Be smart, get a ps4, and this is coming from someone who is mainly a pc gamer, the ps4 just has a far superior game libary.
    HuntrezzGobstopper3D

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • SiveriaSiveria Member UncommonPosts: 1,416



    Dauzqul said:

    Until consoles include keyboard and PROPER mouse support (raw mouse / 1:1), the console will always be limited to caveman-like gameplay. There is only so much you can do with a controller. As far as graphics and performance, yes... consoles can certainly compete. However, I won't touch one simply because of the limited controls / horrid community.


    Consoles support keyboard and mouse. Most games don't allow it though, because not everyone likes to use a K&M and those who would will have a tremendous advantage over others in many games. 



    I find this stupid, its the players choice, if they refused to use kb/mouse they have no right to complain about someone else using it. There is no "unfair advantage" when any player can choose to use it and its allowed. Its not like they need to use a hack or cheat to use a keyboard and mouse, so people who don't have no right to complain as its allowed by the game.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited February 2018
    In December it was widely reported that official keyboard and mouse support was coming to the XBox. Don't think its happened yet but - given the push to have games run on both PC and XBox - it makes sense.

    And it feeds into the MS's "bigger picture". 

    When Microsoft created the first XBox sales of Sony, Sega and Nintendo consoles were booming. PC gaming was being left behind. Bad news for a company that had no presence in the console space. Enter the XBox and after some heavy discounting etc. it established itself.

    Fast forward to today and consider (speculate) what MS's strategy now is. They have been supporting two platforms - so a drive to merge the two makes sense. They also have a solid XBox store operation with a healthy subscriber base; whilst on PC they have Office 365 etc. How good there PC store position is - not sure. 

    Some aims are - I suggest - obvious. Combine the operating systems will save money. So win 1.

    Devlopers as well will be OK with this - no more conversions or two teams. And the bigger combined PC and XBox playerbases - another plus for developers; a bigger market. Now cross-platform games currently have to be sold through the MS store. Which will probably result in some games that historically have been sold through e.g. Steam being sold though the MS store. As cross-platform games. So possible increased MS store sales - win 2.

    Especially if they are able to combine the MS store on the console with that on PC. More synergy savings and possible extra sales.

    Then there is the topic of the article. The XBox 1 is a powerful machine. At a very affordable price. And those saying it will only be mid-range PC next year obviously have no idea what has been happening with the price of graphics cards. And - I suggest - haven't checked out just how powerful the XBox 1 X in particular is (the S is no slouch either).

    An Xbox that can runs Windows 10 that supports a keyboard and mouse ...... hmmm in my dictionary I think that ticks all the boxes for a PC. The only things lacking - as of today - are extensive cross-platform game support - coming for new games - and support for old games. Whetehr that will happen or not - don't know. However the combination must make the XBox a more attractive proposition and so should help drive sales. Which is win 3.

    Which ultimately leads to Microsoft "supporting" its operating system position - which is under threat from Google etc. So that would be win 4.

    Will they be sucessful with their strategy? External factors like developers etc. will play a part. An understanding of what their game plan is however makes some of the comments e.g. keyboard and mouse - "out of place".


    And for consumers - us? There will still be PS4 exclusives but XBox games on PC - a win surely. An inexpensive hardware option - also a win (PC only makers will have to respond or suffer).
    Ridelynn[Deleted User]
  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 4,056
    Not ready to leave my desk/monitor to sit on the couch in front of the TV to game
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    I agree with @Ozmodan - the only major strike against the PS4 right now is lack of UHD Blu-Ray. 

    Yeah, the XBX has better hardware specs... but you know what, the Switch has the crappiest specs of them all and it's selling like gangbusters, and last gen the PS3 crushed everything else in hardware specs and struggled for a very long time, and the Wii outsold PS3 and X360 by a good margin with the crappiest specs. Specs don't mean everything, unless you have nothing else to brag about.

    Microsoft's "Play Anywhere" would be nice, if it actually lived up to it's promise. If I could pop a XB game into my PC and play, I would totally be all over that. But you can't. It only works for a few select titles, through Windows Store. Which is baffling, because the entire XBox App on W10 has a lot of promise in this area. Honestly, Sony's PC Remote Play (which also supports OS X) is just as good right now.

    X Game Pass charges you $9.99 for a library of games, it doesn't come with XBL, which you have to pay for separately. But you get that entire library all at once. PSPlus, on the other hand, gives you a few free games every month,  you get to keep them as long as your still subbed... but if you drop the sub you miss out. Pros and Cons both ways really.

    I do like Microsoft's method of backwards compatibility - PSNow game streaming is questionable right now, I don't have the bandwidth to even try it out.

    Microsoft has a big issue with exclusives. Nintendo has it's entire IP wrapped up, and it making very good use of it. Sony has been crushing it this generation with a very good lineup. In the meantime, Microsoft has been dropping/closing studios, and only has a couple of exclusives worth talking about. This is what makes or breaks a console - not necessarily ~just~ exclusives, but your entire library of available games. I own a PS4, and for HZD and P5 that alone was worth it. In fact I just upgraded to a Pro because I like it so much. I will very likely buy a Switch soon - BotW and Mario both look fun, and I am intrigued by the new Labo honestly. XB1 right now - nothing on it I want to play that I can't already play on the PS4.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Viper482 said:
    Not ready to leave my desk/monitor to sit on the couch in front of the TV to game
    Then plug it into a desktop monitor. 
    Ridelynn
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383

    Dauzqul said:

    Until consoles include keyboard and PROPER mouse support (raw mouse / 1:1), the console will always be limited to caveman-like gameplay. There is only so much you can do with a controller. As far as graphics and performance, yes... consoles can certainly compete. However, I won't touch one simply because of the limited controls / horrid community.



    Same here at my age and condtion of my hands it has to be keyboard/mouse.
    I don't mean to argue against you here - you know you better than I do.

    But in my own experience... using a mouse for a long period of time flares up my arthritis. I don't have the same issue with gamepad on the couch. I am working very hard to relearn to play FFXIV on the gamepad... it's slow going, and kinda like trying to learn to ride a bike.

    It is more difficult to play FPSs and the like with a controller - it takes a different set of motor skills that I don't have as well developed or practiced... And the MMOs that are excersizes in selecting the right counter-button out of an option of approximately 400 different skills (FFXIV) yeah, those take some practice because you have to get the chording set up on the controller. Not impossible, but not exactly intuitive either. 

    And yeah, gamepad is technically "not as accurate" as mouse - I get that. But as long as the game is written well enough that i don't ~need~ pixel-perfect accuracy to a high level of frustration, I care more about the game being fun.

    Being able to play on the couch, or in the bed at night, with a wireless gamepad and not have to worry about stringing up a lap pad or losing the mouse in the cushions, and not having my hand cramp up after an hour and being painful --- it's slowed me down gaming, I won't get to competitive raiding levels in my lifetime, but I'm still having fun and it's a heck of a lot easier for me.
    gervaise1
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Ridelynn said:
    I agree with @Ozmodan - the only major strike against the PS4 right now is lack of UHD Blu-Ray. 
    <snip>

    Microsoft's "Play Anywhere" would be nice, if it actually lived up to it's promise. <snip>
    Yeah the 4k UHD Blu-Ray on the XBox 1 is - maybe - not so much a plus as not a negative. My reasoning being that with so many of us streaming TV these days a blu-ray is "les useful".

    I agree with you though that the big issue is "Play Anywhere". New games - I suspect will come out. Those old PC titles though we occasionally go back to - they are I think the key.

    It will be interesting to see how they get along with "other portals". EA and Origin - probably come to a deal. Activision Blizzard - same; and who knows WoW on an XBox PC? UbiSoft ditto. Steam though? At first I thought no but on reflection not so sure. The possibility of a win-win deal must be there, Steam get to sell to current XB gamers, MS get to sell to current Steam users. So maybe.

    Will only work though if "Windows" compatability can be used on an XBox PC.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    gervaise1 said:
    Ridelynn said:
    I agree with @Ozmodan - the only major strike against the PS4 right now is lack of UHD Blu-Ray. 
    <snip>

    Microsoft's "Play Anywhere" would be nice, if it actually lived up to it's promise. <snip>
    Yeah the 4k UHD Blu-Ray on the XBox 1 is - maybe - not so much a plus as not a negative. My reasoning being that with so many of us streaming TV these days a blu-ray is "les useful".

    I agree with you though that the big issue is "Play Anywhere". New games - I suspect will come out. Those old PC titles though we occasionally go back to - they are I think the key.

    It will be interesting to see how they get along with "other portals". EA and Origin - probably come to a deal. Activision Blizzard - same; and who knows WoW on an XBox PC? UbiSoft ditto. Steam though? At first I thought no but on reflection not so sure. The possibility of a win-win deal must be there, Steam get to sell to current XB gamers, MS get to sell to current Steam users. So maybe.

    Will only work though if "Windows" compatability can be used on an XBox PC.
    It is getting to the point tbh where even having a bluray player in a console is becoming redundant other than as a mode of DRM, in terms of movies etc, you don't need one as most of the time, as in 99% at least the majority of users are likely watching films or other visual media that they have downloaded or streamed, bluray is fast becoming irrelevant, even DVD's such as are still available, are the media of choice compared to Blu ray, its kind of hillarious really how inconsequential blu ray actually is, so when you get down to it, the only differences people will see when watching these 4k movies etc. will be entirely dependant on the quality of the television its being viewed on, not the console or other streaming device, of which there are more than a few these days, or even a PC come to think of it, that is the source of the media, because the source will most of the time be a downloaded one and not a physical disk, that is how todays media is distributed. :p
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,041
    edited February 2018
    Dauzqul said:




    Dauzqul said:


    Until consoles include keyboard and PROPER mouse support (raw mouse / 1:1), the console will always be limited to caveman-like gameplay. There is only so much you can do with a controller. As far as graphics and performance, yes... consoles can certainly compete. However, I won't touch one simply because of the limited controls / horrid community.






    why caveman-like? because you don't like controllers? lol



    No need to call names to express your dislike towards a particular format. I love my PC but i ain't touching PC games that play with mouse only. It's all personal preference.



    How deep can a game really be with a controller? You can jump, crouch, shoot, move forward, move backwards, strafe left, strafe right, and 1-2 specials... What else? Anything else would require those most annoying hud ever created. The time it would take to do anything...

    Go and try to play even the most simplistic MMO with a controller. Sort your inventory. Find a group. Chat with another player. Decorate your house. Target your group leader's target, cast one of MANY different spells etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

    It's clunky. A controller would need so many different combinations that it would feel like having to pull off a Street Fighter Haduuken just to have your character sit down.

    Games on the console will never feel deep because of the limited controls, which is why I consider the genre to be "caveman".
    Really? Go play a beat m up with K+M, go play a fast paced 3d action game with K+M. Then go play FF14 with a controller and see how limited your view really is. Some genres benefit from K+M, others from a controller. Your caveman statement comes forth from a caveman attitude.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,885
    Although I am not a big fan of the controller I don't think it is correct to categorize it as limiting. I have played some games using the controller and the KB and mouse option is actually inferior in those games. Of course that is probably because it is a bad port but we are limited by the types of games that are before us and saying that in every case KB and mouse is better is wrong, it is largely dependent on the game and in some games the controller makes playing the game way less painful on my hands. 

    I am still very lousy at the thumb controls and I rather navigate with WASD but even then I have seen the benefits of a controller in many games making the play session way longer when I use the controller.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    lahnmir said:
    Dauzqul said:




    Dauzqul said:


    Until consoles include keyboard and PROPER mouse support (raw mouse / 1:1), the console will always be limited to caveman-like gameplay. There is only so much you can do with a controller. As far as graphics and performance, yes... consoles can certainly compete. However, I won't touch one simply because of the limited controls / horrid community.






    why caveman-like? because you don't like controllers? lol



    No need to call names to express your dislike towards a particular format. I love my PC but i ain't touching PC games that play with mouse only. It's all personal preference.



    How deep can a game really be with a controller? You can jump, crouch, shoot, move forward, move backwards, strafe left, strafe right, and 1-2 specials... What else? Anything else would require those most annoying hud ever created. The time it would take to do anything...

    Go and try to play even the most simplistic MMO with a controller. Sort your inventory. Find a group. Chat with another player. Decorate your house. Target your group leader's target, cast one of MANY different spells etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

    It's clunky. A controller would need so many different combinations that it would feel like having to pull off a Street Fighter Haduuken just to have your character sit down.

    Games on the console will never feel deep because of the limited controls, which is why I consider the genre to be "caveman".
    Really? Go play a beat m up with K+M, go play a fast paced 3d action game with K+M. Then go play FF14 with a controller and see how limited your view really is. Some genres benefit from K+M, others from a controller. Your caveman statement comes forth from a caveman attitude.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Some games really do benefit from having a controller like a gamepad or joystick, driving games spring to mind as well as some space simulation games such as Elite Dangerous and Eve Valkyrie, but games, or at least MMO's do benefit more from having a kb/m combo, FFXIV:ARR on PS4 and PC however does pretty well, both versions support both kb/m and gamepad, this is helped quite a bit by the fact that the PS4 supports standard usb mice and keyboards natively, even to the point where there are 2 standard usb ports on the front of the PS4, but yes, sadly the PS4 version of the game does have a more noticeable UI, something which could be easily remedied by editing the HUD layout, as it usually is on the PC version. :)
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,571
    Got to agree with the keyb and mouse comments. Consoles just can't compete with the point and shoot, instant reactions of the mouse and the keyb allows for mapping far more functions to individual keys. Nothing worse that having 3 things bound to the same button/key.

    Ok so many consoles now support keyb and mouse, but until they ship with the console and the games support them, consoles will always come off second best.

    Plus they're locked into their hardware, PC's can always be upgraded and tweaked. Console is fine if you don't mind that you're going to be stuck with the same hardware for years but they can't keep up with PC's. I never saw the point in owning both when a PC will do everything a console will plus a lot more. I do get pissed with exclusive titles though.
  • BananaSoupBananaSoup Member UncommonPosts: 180
    I prefer PC exclusives like World of Warcraft. Had PS4 and sold it. Couldn't stand 30 fps in most games.
    Phry
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited February 2018
    <snip>

    Plus they're locked into their hardware, PC's can always be upgraded and tweaked. Console is fine if you don't mind that you're going to be stuck with the same hardware for years but they can't keep up with PC's. <snip>
    If they announce that you can run all your old games - under Windows 10 - on an XB PC then for most people buying an XB 1 would be a major upgrade and cost less than some graphics cards!

    And compared to the cost of some graphics cards they could upgrade again next year or th eyear after with the change!

    (And I say that as a PC user who does upgrade for those who don't it would be a slam dunk. At the end of the day the parts in an XB1, PS4, PC - Mac as well for that matter, are the same. DDR5 memory in the latest XB1 for example ponder that. Large scale direct from manufacturer with no middleman keeps costs down.) 

    Edit: and if they started selling an XB PC with k+m it would be a k+m you might find sold with a PC)
  • bonzoso21bonzoso21 Member UncommonPosts: 380
    I would think most people are only going to get one meaningful upgrade in between new PC builds because of chipset updates, though. The last two builds I've done had about an 8 year lifespan with a GPU and RAM upgrade in the middle somewhere (and this last one had an SSD and a 1440p 144hz monitor added, as well). I can't upgrade the CPU because by the time it starts showing its age, the chipset has changed and it requires a new motherboard, which requires new RAM and thus becomes pretty much a whole new build. 

    It seems crazy to me that people trash a $400-500 console that can output good visuals in 4k and lasts 5-10 years, in comparison to a PC that was built for $1200-$1500 and had another $500 worth of mid-gen upgrades put into it and still only lasts 8-10 years. Sure, we all know good PCs will always provide the best visuals and that certain genres control far better with a keyboard and mouse, but consoles are SO much more cost effective, and sometimes PCs can be a pain in the ass, to boot. 
    [Deleted User]gervaise1wingood
  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,789
    From the xbox 360 to the latest xbox x, they are all just simpler forms of PC's. All consoles are fine if you want to be limited in the experience and diversity that a PC could bring. I use to have both until I realized that consoles were nothing more then dumbed down PC's. Now, I only have a PC and I am no long conflicted.

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Gruug said:
    From the xbox 360 to the latest xbox x, they are all just simpler forms of PC's. All consoles are fine if you want to be limited in the experience and diversity that a PC could bring. I use to have both until I realized that consoles were nothing more then dumbed down PC's. Now, I only have a PC and I am no long conflicted.
    The experience is the key. It has to be "the same". Which is starting to happen with new games. Indeed going forward new users won't be conflicted. For current PC users however the key will be whether you will be able to run old games on an "XB PC". Which might simply come down to: will it run Windows 10.

    If you sit down at a desktop monitor in front of which is a keyboard and mouse, turn it on, see the Windows screen and can play your games on it, use Word, watch Youtube or whatever .... no conflict

    If an XB can run Windows. And that should be something that Microsoft can deliver on. Will they want to though?
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