For me how the whole game comes together - far more important than individual features.
I mean some games have all the dream features on paper - but the game itself sucks.
So features in themselves are far less important than how everything fits and supports overall game design.
Same for me. I like the contrast between "good" and "bad" features. How they're implemented in the game is what makes the game "good" or "bad" for me. The only exception for me is cash shops. There is NO good implementation of them, in my opinion.
I didn't mind naked corpse runs in EQ (as per the OP's example). It added to the experience for me, giving me an immediate challenge that was unexpected. Crafting in MMOs is pretty hit and miss for me, rarely satisfying. Housing is almost non-existent, like our characters don't need a home base.
What many call "grind", the infamous "time sink", or "invisible walls" were mostly just poorly implemented features, in my opinion.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I have never understood people who are adamant about a specific game feature. Pro or Con. The only absolute requirement I have is that the game be fun.
But what makes a game "fun" for you? "Fun" is a useless word.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I have never understood people who are adamant about a specific game feature. Pro or Con. The only absolute requirement I have is that the game be fun.
But what makes a game "fun" for you? "Fun" is a useless word.
Fun is a really useful word.
It's about admitting that you won't know whether a game is good or bad for you this easily. And that this kind of solution, while simple and easy, ultimately would lead you to misjudgements.
This is not to say that judging by features couldn't work for anyone, but there are a lot of people who have realized it won't work for them.
I have never understood people who are adamant about a specific game feature. Pro or Con. The only absolute requirement I have is that the game be fun.
But what makes a game "fun" for you? "Fun" is a useless word.
"Fun" is at the core of game design and the first thing you design around. Mechanics need to be designed with it in mind and features have to be implemented to enhance it. If you don't make it the core of a design then you will end up showing your game to players with all the features and mechanics you've developed, and when they play, all they will say is "This is boring". They may not know why, but they will certainly stop playing shortly after.
I have never understood people who are adamant about a specific game feature. Pro or Con. The only absolute requirement I have is that the game be fun.
But what makes a game "fun" for you? "Fun" is a useless word.
Fun is a really useful word.
It's about admitting that you won't know whether a game is good or bad for you this easily. And that this kind of solution, while simple and easy, ultimately would lead you to misjudgements.
This is not to say that judging by features couldn't work for anyone, but there are a lot of people who have realized it won't work for them.
So if I say a game is "fun", does that mean anything to you? DO "we" define "fun" in the exact same way? The same with "simple and easy." Do we define them the same?
Fun may be reading a good book, or hiking in the mountains. It all depends on the individual. So when you say, "fun", I have no clue what you mean. I know how *I* define fun, but not you. Thus, "fun" is a useless word, right alongside good/bad or best/worst.
[edit] Is PvP "fun" for you? It's not for me. Is crafting "fun" for you? It is for me. Do you find RvRvR "more fun" than RvR? Do you find exploration "fun?"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Fun has a lot to do with where you place the focus for your analysis.
Take golf for example.
Is being outside in the sunshine with friends fun?
Is the game of golf fun in general?
Is this golf course fun?
Is this hole fun?
Is this golf outing fun today?
Depending on how broad or specific the question, golf may be fun, not fun, or partly fun for the same person. It's a fairly slippery thing to try and measure.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Fun has a lot to do with where you place the focus for your analysis.
Take golf for example.
Is being outside in the sunshine with friends fun?
Is the game of golf fun in general?
Is this golf course fun?
Is this hole fun?
Is this golf outing fun today?
Depending on how broad or specific the question, golf may be fun, not fun, or partly fun for the same person. It's a fairly slippery thing to try and measure.
Exactly! Thus, the word "fun" is useless in describing anything. So saying "I only play games that are fun." is a cop-out and adds nothing to any discussion.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Well fun can be achieved through different methods.
But it all leads down the same pathway.
Fun = increased neurotransmitter release to reward center.
Now whatever leads to that leads to the person describing the experience as fun.
Cryomatrix
Exactly. Yet "fun" says nothing without context, right? What is it that gets those neurotransmitters firing? Different for each person, right?
[edit] What I'm getting at is the OP was curious about what each person thinks is "good" and/or "bad" features in MMOs. Many said how they're implemented, but also gave some examples to give context. @Vrika did not, just saying only "fun" mattered. I was just trying to get them to elaborate on that.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Depends on what the good or bad affects in the game.Example if i can't sit down with my character,i really don't care.Sure any added feature might be nice but some are never going to be game breaking.
However a feature that some consider good that i detest can and will break it for me.I really don't like somersaults in these games,i don't like if every character can fly.Then we have flying mounts,EVERY single last player will want one,so if we are utilizing cash shops,that is a very lame target to gouge money as well ruins the integrity of map design if people can just fly over everything.
"Instances" often talked about,i much rather have zone lines than instances.One of the reasons is simple,devs usually use instances to create terrible game content,example to stick some Boss at the end of a tunnel to attain some loot.Sorry but i want a rpg experience not a MHW or loot grinder. So yeah depending on what area of game design is targeted,it can make it or break it.Lack of in character design and combat design is A BIGGY,i care for a lot more than simply seeing over sized weapons and over sized giant creatures.Game design has to have balance,too much or too little of a thing and the game goes from good to bad.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"Hand holding" features,a HUGE bust for me,treated like a dumb 5 year old kid ,no thanks,i am not playing connect the dots gaming,i prefer to be dropped into a world and play MY GAME.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
[edit] Is PvP "fun" for you? It's not for me. Is crafting "fun" for you? It is for me. Do you find RvRvR "more fun" than RvR? Do you find exploration "fun?"
I don't know. That would depend on whether I find them fun.
I guess that would mostly depend on quality and polish of that feature and the overall game, and how well that feature fits within the game. If it's a multiplayer game, then the friends I'm playing with and overall community also matter a lot.
Fun isn't about feature set of the game, at least not for me.
[edit] Is PvP "fun" for you? It's not for me. Is crafting "fun" for you? It is for me. Do you find RvRvR "more fun" than RvR? Do you find exploration "fun?"
I don't know. That would depend on whether I find them fun.
I guess that would mostly depend on quality and polish of that feature and the overall game, and how well that feature fits within the game. If it's a multiplayer game, then the friends I'm playing with and overall community also matter a lot.
Fun isn't about feature set of the game, at least not for me.
The question and purpose of the thread is to find out if there are any features that form an absolute line in the sand for you. You may be quite open minded and therefore have no absolute lines in the sand, but I expect everyone has a line in the sand.
The more easy going you are, the more specific those lines in the sand will become and this thread is about discussing what they are.
So, those people in this thread saying "features don't matter, it's all about the fun", well, that's a lie. For example, if a game included a feature that allowed you to rape a child (extreme example), I would hope that the inclusion of that feature would mean you'd never play that game. So, in the more general context, is there a feature you've encountered in the past that would prevent you from playing an MMO in the future? Is there anything so bad that it guarantees you won't be able to enjoy the game?
It's difficult to say. There may be three things that a game does really well and three things the same game is horrible at doing. I play for the fun in the three things and curse as well as threaten to quit the game forever when having to do the three badly done things. Each game is different in that way so the number of things changes.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Comments
I didn't mind naked corpse runs in EQ (as per the OP's example). It added to the experience for me, giving me an immediate challenge that was unexpected. Crafting in MMOs is pretty hit and miss for me, rarely satisfying. Housing is almost non-existent, like our characters don't need a home base.
What many call "grind", the infamous "time sink", or "invisible walls" were mostly just poorly implemented features, in my opinion.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
It's about admitting that you won't know whether a game is good or bad for you this easily. And that this kind of solution, while simple and easy, ultimately would lead you to misjudgements.
This is not to say that judging by features couldn't work for anyone, but there are a lot of people who have realized it won't work for them.
Fun may be reading a good book, or hiking in the mountains. It all depends on the individual. So when you say, "fun", I have no clue what you mean. I know how *I* define fun, but not you. Thus, "fun" is a useless word, right alongside good/bad or best/worst.
[edit]
Is PvP "fun" for you? It's not for me.
Is crafting "fun" for you? It is for me.
Do you find RvRvR "more fun" than RvR?
Do you find exploration "fun?"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Take golf for example.
Is being outside in the sunshine with friends fun?
Is the game of golf fun in general?
Is this golf course fun?
Is this hole fun?
Is this golf outing fun today?
Depending on how broad or specific the question, golf may be fun, not fun, or partly fun for the same person. It's a fairly slippery thing to try and measure.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
But it all leads down the same pathway.
Fun = increased neurotransmitter release to reward center.
Now whatever leads to that leads to the person describing the experience as fun.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
[edit]
What I'm getting at is the OP was curious about what each person thinks is "good" and/or "bad" features in MMOs. Many said how they're implemented, but also gave some examples to give context. @Vrika did not, just saying only "fun" mattered. I was just trying to get them to elaborate on that.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
However a feature that some consider good that i detest can and will break it for me.I really don't like somersaults in these games,i don't like if every character can fly.Then we have flying mounts,EVERY single last player will want one,so if we are utilizing cash shops,that is a very lame target to gouge money as well ruins the integrity of map design if people can just fly over everything.
"Instances" often talked about,i much rather have zone lines than instances.One of the reasons is simple,devs usually use instances to create terrible game content,example to stick some Boss at the end of a tunnel to attain some loot.Sorry but i want a rpg experience not a MHW or loot grinder.
So yeah depending on what area of game design is targeted,it can make it or break it.Lack of in character design and combat design is A BIGGY,i care for a lot more than simply seeing over sized weapons and over sized giant creatures.Game design has to have balance,too much or too little of a thing and the game goes from good to bad.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I guess that would mostly depend on quality and polish of that feature and the overall game, and how well that feature fits within the game. If it's a multiplayer game, then the friends I'm playing with and overall community also matter a lot.
Fun isn't about feature set of the game, at least not for me.
The more easy going you are, the more specific those lines in the sand will become and this thread is about discussing what they are.
So, those people in this thread saying "features don't matter, it's all about the fun", well, that's a lie. For example, if a game included a feature that allowed you to rape a child (extreme example), I would hope that the inclusion of that feature would mean you'd never play that game. So, in the more general context, is there a feature you've encountered in the past that would prevent you from playing an MMO in the future? Is there anything so bad that it guarantees you won't be able to enjoy the game?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey