WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks
Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.
It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.
People in America or Europe actually play FFXIV or ESO. Almost no one play lineage in America or Europe. So you are referencing a game no one on this forum care about. And I don't even know lineage is a sandbox game. Never heard of people referring it as a sandbox game.
The online revenue from asian markets are already bigger than the west. Closing your eyes and refusing to see it won't change reality.
Lineage is an "open" MMO not exactly a sandbox, with the open world as the main focus of the game, there are very few intances that usually have a timer in which you can enter it again (usually 24h hours to 1 week).
90% of the content of the game as well as the pvp happens in the open world.
None of that makes it a sandbox, its an open world themepark. Also you tell him to not close his eyes to it but you are doing the same in allowing Profit to garner what you think is popular. Linage could have 3 people who spend 3 million a year in it doesn't mean it is more popular than the other games just means it caters to spenders.
Popularity and revenue always walk together. LoL has the biggest revenues among all PC games because it has over 100 million players.
LoL isn't an mmo, not the topic at hand.
It doesn't change the fact that popularity = revenue, Lineage M is currently the most popular MMO in Korea and Taiwan (the only 2 places it is available so far).
And by far one of the least cared about here in the west. It is not also a argument to my original point as it is not a sandbox mmo.
It still bigger than any MMO in west except WoW. It's an open game, not a themepark focused on intanced end-game raids/arenas, this is why i cited it. One of the few MMOs that still is successful that is not a themepark.
But it is a themepark it's just not as much a directed attraction one as wow or ffxiv, it's not a sandbox and if it was more popular NCsoft wouldnt have reservations on bringing it west. They know that things like wow and ffxiv do better over here there for they never risk it.
WoW is slowly falling the superdata top 10 PC games rank, years ago it was easily in the top 5, now it is on 7th and falling.
And yet again you are comparing wow vs other genres. And as for what a theme park is, it is a linear progressive mmo in which the player is guided to activities via a narrative or leveling system with pre-exsisting activities that where created for the sole purpose of the gamer completing them. It is not a theme park simply because there is raiding and instanced dungeons. An open world can be a theme park as well. With certain activities being blocked until the player progresses to them, but in the end the player had little to no impact on the actual world of the game. I.E Themeparks. Sandbox is an open source world in which the player through their actions in game shape and change the game world around them. Of which lineage does not do. Lineage is an open world PvP themepark.
WoW is slowly falling the superdata top 10 PC games rank, years ago it was easily in the top 5, now it is on 7th and falling.
And yet again you are comparing wow vs other genres. And as for what a theme park is, it is a linear progressive mmo in which the player is guided to activities via a narrative or leveling system with pre-exsisting activities that where created for the sole purpose of the gamer completing them. It is not a theme park simply because there is raiding and instanced dungeons. An open world can be a theme park as well. With certain activities being blocked until the player progresses to them, but in the end the player had little to no impact on the actual world of the game. I.E Themeparks. Sandbox is an open source world in which the player through their actions in game shape and change the game world around them. Of which lineage does not do. Lineage is an open world PvP themepark.
Lineage offers some small world control through castle sieges. The clan that manages to take control of the castle of a region will own the taxes collected through the commerce in that region until another clan throws them out of the throne.
It's an open game not theme park nor sandbox. But has a little of both.
WoW is slowly falling the superdata top 10 PC games rank, years ago it was easily in the top 5, now it is on 7th and falling.
And yet again you are comparing wow vs other genres. And as for what a theme park is, it is a linear progressive mmo in which the player is guided to activities via a narrative or leveling system with pre-exsisting activities that where created for the sole purpose of the gamer completing them. It is not a theme park simply because there is raiding and instanced dungeons. An open world can be a theme park as well. With certain activities being blocked until the player progresses to them, but in the end the player had little to no impact on the actual world of the game. I.E Themeparks. Sandbox is an open source world in which the player through their actions in game shape and change the game world around them. Of which lineage does not do. Lineage is an open world PvP themepark.
Lineage offers some small world control through castle sieges. The clan that manages to take control of the castle of a region will own the taxes collected through the commerce in that region until another clan throws them out of the throne.
It's an open game not theme park nor sandbox. But has a little of both.
That is a Theme park element to a basic gvg PvP system. It's defined in a linear way. With that you could also say guild wars 2 and Tera are "open" games. Like it or not lineage is a PvP Theme park.
WoW is slowly falling the superdata top 10 PC games rank, years ago it was easily in the top 5, now it is on 7th and falling.
And yet again you are comparing wow vs other genres. And as for what a theme park is, it is a linear progressive mmo in which the player is guided to activities via a narrative or leveling system with pre-exsisting activities that where created for the sole purpose of the gamer completing them. It is not a theme park simply because there is raiding and instanced dungeons. An open world can be a theme park as well. With certain activities being blocked until the player progresses to them, but in the end the player had little to no impact on the actual world of the game. I.E Themeparks. Sandbox is an open source world in which the player through their actions in game shape and change the game world around them. Of which lineage does not do. Lineage is an open world PvP themepark.
Lineage offers some small world control through castle sieges. The clan that manages to take control of the castle of a region will own the taxes collected through the commerce in that region until another clan throws them out of the throne.
It's an open game not theme park nor sandbox. But has a little of both.
That is a Theme park element to a basic gvg PvP system. It's defined in a linear way. With that you could also say guild wars 2 and Tera are "open" games. Like it or not lineage is a PvP Theme park.
Except pvp in gw2 happens in a intanced zone, pvp/pk in lineage happens anywhere outside towns. The moment you put your head outside a town to farm, you can be killed by anyone.
It still bigger than any MMO in west except WoW. It's an open game, not a themepark focused on intanced end-game raids/arenas, this is why i cited it. One of the few MMOs that still is successful that is not a themepark.
I thought lineage do so bad in the west it get shutdown. So it shows games popular in one region won't necessary be successful if localized in another region.
WoW is slowly falling the superdata top 10 PC games rank, years ago it was easily in the top 5, now it is on 7th and falling.
And yet again you are comparing wow vs other genres. And as for what a theme park is, it is a linear progressive mmo in which the player is guided to activities via a narrative or leveling system with pre-exsisting activities that where created for the sole purpose of the gamer completing them. It is not a theme park simply because there is raiding and instanced dungeons. An open world can be a theme park as well. With certain activities being blocked until the player progresses to them, but in the end the player had little to no impact on the actual world of the game. I.E Themeparks. Sandbox is an open source world in which the player through their actions in game shape and change the game world around them. Of which lineage does not do. Lineage is an open world PvP themepark.
Lineage offers some small world control through castle sieges. The clan that manages to take control of the castle of a region will own the taxes collected through the commerce in that region until another clan throws them out of the throne.
It's an open game not theme park nor sandbox. But has a little of both.
That is a Theme park element to a basic gvg PvP system. It's defined in a linear way. With that you could also say guild wars 2 and Tera are "open" games. Like it or not lineage is a PvP Theme park.
Except pvp in gw2 happens in a intanced zone, pvp/pk in lineage happens anywhere outside towns. The moment you put your head outside a town to farm, you can be killed by anyone.
Ok so wow is an open world game just like lineage as in PvP SERVERS you can walk out of town to pick flowers and then die to PK. Tera you flag yourself boom PK, DCUO go to PvP shard boom PK. World PvP is not what dictates if a game is sandboxish or not.
WoW is slowly falling the superdata top 10 PC games rank, years ago it was easily in the top 5, now it is on 7th and falling.
And yet again you are comparing wow vs other genres. And as for what a theme park is, it is a linear progressive mmo in which the player is guided to activities via a narrative or leveling system with pre-exsisting activities that where created for the sole purpose of the gamer completing them. It is not a theme park simply because there is raiding and instanced dungeons. An open world can be a theme park as well. With certain activities being blocked until the player progresses to them, but in the end the player had little to no impact on the actual world of the game. I.E Themeparks. Sandbox is an open source world in which the player through their actions in game shape and change the game world around them. Of which lineage does not do. Lineage is an open world PvP themepark.
Lineage offers some small world control through castle sieges. The clan that manages to take control of the castle of a region will own the taxes collected through the commerce in that region until another clan throws them out of the throne.
It's an open game not theme park nor sandbox. But has a little of both.
That is a Theme park element to a basic gvg PvP system. It's defined in a linear way. With that you could also say guild wars 2 and Tera are "open" games. Like it or not lineage is a PvP Theme park.
Except pvp in gw2 happens in a intanced zone, pvp/pk in lineage happens anywhere outside towns. The moment you put your head outside a town to farm, you can be killed by anyone.
Ok so wow is an open world game just like lineage as in PvP SERVERS you can walk out of town to pick flowers and then die to PK. Tera you flag yourself boom PK, DCUO go to PvP shard boom PK. World PvP is not what dictates if a game is sandboxish or not.
Except there is no consequence in any of them. In lineage you lose xp upon death, you can become pk, while in this state you can lose and drop inventory items if you die depending on how much karma you have accumulated.
So consequence of pvp make it a sandbox? If wow start making people loss exp when they get ganked, it become a sandbox?
As i said and repeat, Lineage is a open world MMO with some few instances, it is not a sandbox nor a theme park, but has some elements of both.
It has levels and grind for levels/gear which is a themepark feature. It has a political system based on castle sieges which is a sandbox-inspired feature.
So consequence of pvp make it a sandbox? If wow start making people loss exp when they get ganked, it become a sandbox?
As i said and repeat, Lineage is a open world MMO with some few instances, it is not a sandbox nor a theme park, but has some elements of both.
It has levels and grind for levels/gear which is a themepark feature. It has a political system based on castle sieges which is a sandbox-inspired feature.
I think you somehow imply consequence of death is linked to being a sandbox. If that is not what you mean, my mistake. That is why I ask if you start losing exp or gear in wow does it make it a sandbox?
So consequence of pvp make it a sandbox? If wow start making people loss exp when they get ganked, it become a sandbox?
As i said and repeat, Lineage is a open world MMO with some few instances, it is not a sandbox nor a theme park, but has some elements of both.
It has levels and grind for levels/gear which is a themepark feature. It has a political system based on castle sieges which is a sandbox-inspired feature.
I think you somehow imply consequence of death is linked to being a sandbox. If that is not what you mean, my mistake. That is why I ask if you start losing exp or gear in wow does it make it a sandbox?
In wow there is no real consequence in anything. Lineage has clan-controlled zones which give the owner of the castle economic advantage in that region.
I never said Lineage is a sandbox nor a themepark but some mix between the two, a open world game with some elements of both.
So consequence of pvp make it a sandbox? If wow start making people loss exp when they get ganked, it become a sandbox?
As i said and repeat, Lineage is a open world MMO with some few instances, it is not a sandbox nor a theme park, but has some elements of both.
It has levels and grind for levels/gear which is a themepark feature. It has a political system based on castle sieges which is a sandbox-inspired feature.
I think you somehow imply consequence of death is linked to being a sandbox. If that is not what you mean, my mistake. That is why I ask if you start losing exp or gear in wow does it make it a sandbox?
In wow there is no real consequence in anything. Lineage has clan-controlled zones which give the owner of the castle economic advantage in that region.
I never said Lineage is a sandbox nor a themepark but some mix between the two, a open world game with some elements of both.
I'm not going to argue about definition of sandbox. I'm just wondering how consequence of death is linked to a game being sandbox or not.
I used to raid in Wow a long time ago, about 20 hours a week. And even spending 20 hours a week doing just raid, our guild didn't get far. I can't imagine how painful having death penalty would do to people who spend their entire time doing nothing but raid.
Harsh death penalty probably works for some type of games, but definitively not wow.
So consequence of pvp make it a sandbox? If wow start making people loss exp when they get ganked, it become a sandbox?
As i said and repeat, Lineage is a open world MMO with some few instances, it is not a sandbox nor a theme park, but has some elements of both.
It has levels and grind for levels/gear which is a themepark feature. It has a political system based on castle sieges which is a sandbox-inspired feature.
I think you somehow imply consequence of death is linked to being a sandbox. If that is not what you mean, my mistake. That is why I ask if you start losing exp or gear in wow does it make it a sandbox?
In wow there is no real consequence in anything. Lineage has clan-controlled zones which give the owner of the castle economic advantage in that region.
I never said Lineage is a sandbox nor a themepark but some mix between the two, a open world game with some elements of both.
I'm not going to argue about definition of sandbox. I'm just wondering how consequence of death is linked to a game being sandbox or not.
I used to raid in Wow a long time ago, about 20 hours a week. And even spending 20 hours a week doing just raid, our guild didn't get far. I can't imagine how painful having death penalty would do to people who spend their entire time doing nothing but raid.
Harsh death penalty probably works for some type of games, but definitively not wow.
A pvp/pk system as seen in Lineage wouldn't work in WoW because there are always 2 forced enemy factions set in stone, and it will never change.
In Lineage it works because it's the players who make their enemies and allies, resulting in several different "factions" including the option of being a neutral clan that does not engage in war against anybody. And it can change at any time, Clan A can stop a war againt Clan B and start a new war againt Clan C, or both at the same time or none of them. Players can betray their clan and join an enemy clan, there are several possibilites. The opposite is also true, different clans can unite and form an alliance as well as alliances can break appart.
A pvp/pk system as seen in Lineage wouldn't work in WoW because there are always 2 forced enemy factions set in stone, and it will never change.
In Lineage it works because it's the players who make their enemies and allies, resulting in several different "factions" including the option of being a neutral clan that does not engage in war against anybody. And it can change at any time, Clan A can stop a war againt Clan B and start a new war againt Clan C, or both at the same time or none of them. Players can betray their clan and join an enemy clan, there are several possibilites. The opposite is also true, different clans can unite and form an alliance as well as alliances can break appart.
I see that maybe a mix of both would be better. I don't think having pure faction by player will ever accomplish a stable OW PVP system. Having a faction of NPC tied to the main players faction which player can clan up and still combat even allies through a war system or go against the opposing factions to control land with resources. This brings a little stability to the system so the PVE crowd is no longer the sheep feeding the wolves but yet anywhere and everywhere there is still that possibility.
Having this faction would mean those that want to PK can still do it but eventually they are going to have problems with NPCs and others in that faction. Basically chased out of their own faction.
On top of that there is also the thing that if you PK enough every time you die you have an increased percentage of chance to die permanently.
WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks
Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.
It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.
People in America or Europe actually play FFXIV or ESO. Almost no one play lineage in America or Europe. So you are referencing a game no one on this forum care about. And I don't even know lineage is a sandbox game. Never heard of people referring it as a sandbox game.
The online revenue from asian markets are already bigger than the west. Closing your eyes and refusing to see it won't change reality.
Lineage is an "open" MMO not exactly a sandbox, with the open world as the main focus of the game, there are very few intances that usually have a timer in which you can enter it again (usually 24h hours to 1 week).
90% of the content of the game as well as the pvp happens in the open world.
None of that makes it a sandbox, its an open world themepark. Also you tell him to not close his eyes to it but you are doing the same in allowing Profit to garner what you think is popular. Linage could have 3 people who spend 3 million a year in it doesn't mean it is more popular than the other games just means it caters to spenders.
Popularity and revenue always walk together. LoL has the biggest revenues among all PC games because it has over 100 million players.
LoL isn't an mmo, not the topic at hand.
It doesn't change the fact that popularity = revenue, Lineage M is currently the most popular MMO in Korea and Taiwan (the only 2 places it is available so far).
And by far one of the least cared about here in the west. It is not also a argument to my original point as it is not a sandbox mmo.
It still bigger than any MMO in west except WoW. It's an open game, not a themepark focused on intanced end-game raids/arenas, this is why i cited it. One of the few MMOs that still is successful that is not a themepark.
But it is a themepark it's just not as much a directed attraction one as wow or ffxiv, it's not a sandbox and if it was more popular NCsoft wouldnt have reservations on bringing it west. They know that things like wow and ffxiv do better over here there for they never risk it.
You need to check what makes a game a themepark.
Raiding is the epitome of theme park.....sit and wait, stand, move, fight, sit and wait, stand move....ad nauseum.
Tell them what? Why would they care what is happening outside their games? They have their game. No shits were given about any other MMO back when I was into SWG. It wasn't until I left when I went hunting for other things to play during a time when there were tons of somewhat OK MMOs. These days I find myself filling time with single player sim games and a bit of GW2 since pickings are slim when it comes to the all encompassing MMO I used to love.
In fact L2 is a pure sandbox game. Well you cannot cut a tree. You can't do anything with the trees - they are simply not an element from the gameplay. But it is a real open world game, even the instances are open world, and you have absolute freedom with all mechanisms and elements of the gameplay.
Except by many people's definition it's not a sandbox.
Its lacking feature "x", "y" or "z" which they feel are "requirements" for a game to be called a "true" sand box.
Or it isn't enough like game "abc" or game "def" which they believe set the "gold" standard 20 plus years ago.
Fact is there is no more elusive gaming term to define than this one IMO.
I always tell people I'll know a sand box game when I feel one, after that who can say?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In fact L2 is a pure sandbox game. Well you cannot cut a tree. You can't do anything with the trees - they are simply not an element from the gameplay. But it is a real open world game, even the instances are open world, and you have absolute freedom with all mechanisms and elements of the gameplay.
Except by many people's definition it's not a sandbox.
Its lacking feature "x", "y" or "z" which they feel are "requirements" for a game to be called a "true" sand box.
Or it isn't enough like game "abc" or game "def" which they believe set the "gold" standard 20 plus years ago.
Fact is there is no more elusive gaming term to define than this one IMO.
I always tell people I'll know a sand box game when I feel one, after that who can say?
I tried to play DEF. It wasn't for me...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
In fact L2 is a pure sandbox game. Well you cannot cut a tree. You can't do anything with the trees - they are simply not an element from the gameplay. But it is a real open world game, even the instances are open world, and you have absolute freedom with all mechanisms and elements of the gameplay.
Except by many people's definition it's not a sandbox.
Its lacking feature "x", "y" or "z" which they feel are "requirements" for a game to be called a "true" sand box.
Or it isn't enough like game "abc" or game "def" which they believe set the "gold" standard 20 plus years ago.
Fact is there is no more elusive gaming term to define than this one IMO.
I always tell people I'll know a sand box game when I feel one, after that who can say?
It is open world, and gives freedom to the players, how it is not sandbox?
Does it have an un-centralized economy? Can you craft absolutely every piece of gear? Do you lose all loot every time you die? Can you change the world around you?
All of these are things that people consider "sandbox" and everyone's definition requires more of some and less of others.
In fact L2 is a pure sandbox game. Well you cannot cut a tree. You can't do anything with the trees - they are simply not an element from the gameplay. But it is a real open world game, even the instances are open world, and you have absolute freedom with all mechanisms and elements of the gameplay.
Except by many people's definition it's not a sandbox.
Its lacking feature "x", "y" or "z" which they feel are "requirements" for a game to be called a "true" sand box.
Or it isn't enough like game "abc" or game "def" which they believe set the "gold" standard 20 plus years ago.
Fact is there is no more elusive gaming term to define than this one IMO.
I always tell people I'll know a sand box game when I feel one, after that who can say?
I tried to play DEF. It wasn't for me...
Dude, you're lame! DEF laid the groundwork for all the games that came after!
We are overloaded with bad F2P games but that is as much a function of society's general lack of an attention span as anything else.
You make it sounds like a bad thing. I don't see why the public needs to keep attention on games for the long term. We are talking about entertainment here. My attention span on a movie is 2-3 hours. My attention span on a novel is like 4-5 hours. My attention spent on a season of tv shows is like 20 hours (or 10-13 if we are talking about netflix stuff).
Is there any reason why games are superior and should command more of my time?
You are unnecessarily mixing up "time invested into entertainment" and "time required to finish a content". But I don't see why they would have to have anything to do with each other. If there was a 500-hour novel that would fascinate me without end, I would read it. In fact, I have been listening to the Aubrey&Maturin series for several years.
My point is simply that i don't see society needs to have a long attention span for entertainment.
If a 500 hour-novel can naturally hold peoples' attention, so much the better. But at the same time, if most people decide they are not going to spend any game more than 15 min, it is their choice, and I don't see anything wrong. That is just a preference.
The extended point is that entertainment is different from career, family and relationships that have a lot more give and take. You cannot quit your career because of a small thing you don't like .. because if you do, you are not likely to have a career. Ditto for a spouse.
But entertainment? They are so abundant and if I stop playing game A for whatever reason, there is always a game B. If I decide not to finish novel C, there is always a novel D. There is no reason to be patient (not that you cannot choose to) or tolerant of anything I do not like, and I can use entertainment anyway i want so it entertains me best.
Traditional MMORPG's are as dead as dead can be. You have a few fledgling indy games, most wont reach a level of quality that 2008 had in games, if they can make it and survive. No AAA developer will touch mmorpg, given how expensive they are to run and maintain vs the population that will play them long term these days..
Sure bits and pieces have move on to other game types.
The longer ive gone void of mmorpgs the less i miss them. From how the communities evolved and tore apart anything good, to the boring as hell mandatory progression with no purpose (and i love progression) right up to the stale endgame and pvp.
Id rather buy a great single player RPG with a great story and narration, a co-op dungeon crawler, and play overwatch for pvp than slog through farms helping lazy farmers and dealing with raid group tyranny.
MMORPGs were great as online gaming became a new thing, but at their heart most mmorpgs were just a shallow cobbling of mini games tied together with incredibly boring busywork.
Im sure we will get future indy games capable of surviving on a spartan community, but i dont think we will ever see a massive AAA mmorpg offering again. Too many investors learned the hard way. Much less money spent on other games can yield much more income without all the baggage mmorpgs had.
Sure id kill for a few older or dead mmorpgs to come back to live with modern tech, but even then, communities that those older games have are ancient times and can never be recreated. Really the thing i miss most about the 1999-2010 mmorpg golden age was the communities and chatting it up in global or clan chat, and really past 2008 thing quickly devolved on that aspect.
Sure i burned out i guess and nothing changed with mmorpgs despite the over use of the term "innovation" they easily could have been more than they were but everyone was stuck chasing wow...which if i could do it all over again id play wow, for all the hate it gets it was the high water mark on the mmorpg golden age, and its still ticking and improving. My only regret was never being able to get into it despite trying three times as hard as i could to get into it. I mean its depressing to try to go back to something like anarchy online and its 100% dead, or other games where you cant because they got shut down.
Comments
It's an open game not theme park nor sandbox. But has a little of both.
It has levels and grind for levels/gear which is a themepark feature.
It has a political system based on castle sieges which is a sandbox-inspired feature.
I never said Lineage is a sandbox nor a themepark but some mix between the two, a open world game with some elements of both.
I used to raid in Wow a long time ago, about 20 hours a week. And even spending 20 hours a week doing just raid, our guild didn't get far. I can't imagine how painful having death penalty would do to people who spend their entire time doing nothing but raid.
Harsh death penalty probably works for some type of games, but definitively not wow.
In Lineage it works because it's the players who make their enemies and allies, resulting in several different "factions" including the option of being a neutral clan that does not engage in war against anybody. And it can change at any time, Clan A can stop a war againt Clan B and start a new war againt Clan C, or both at the same time or none of them. Players can betray their clan and join an enemy clan, there are several possibilites. The opposite is also true, different clans can unite and form an alliance as well as alliances can break appart.
Having this faction would mean those that want to PK can still do it but eventually they are going to have problems with NPCs and others in that faction. Basically chased out of their own faction.
On top of that there is also the thing that if you PK enough every time you die you have an increased percentage of chance to die permanently.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Its lacking feature "x", "y" or "z" which they feel are "requirements" for a game to be called a "true" sand box.
Or it isn't enough like game "abc" or game "def" which they believe set the "gold" standard 20 plus years ago.
Fact is there is no more elusive gaming term to define than this one IMO.
I always tell people I'll know a sand box game when I feel one, after that who can say?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Does it have an un-centralized economy? Can you craft absolutely every piece of gear? Do you lose all loot every time you die? Can you change the world around you?
All of these are things that people consider "sandbox" and everyone's definition requires more of some and less of others.
Stupid ABC fanboi...
If a 500 hour-novel can naturally hold peoples' attention, so much the better. But at the same time, if most people decide they are not going to spend any game more than 15 min, it is their choice, and I don't see anything wrong. That is just a preference.
The extended point is that entertainment is different from career, family and relationships that have a lot more give and take. You cannot quit your career because of a small thing you don't like .. because if you do, you are not likely to have a career. Ditto for a spouse.
But entertainment? They are so abundant and if I stop playing game A for whatever reason, there is always a game B. If I decide not to finish novel C, there is always a novel D. There is no reason to be patient (not that you cannot choose to) or tolerant of anything I do not like, and I can use entertainment anyway i want so it entertains me best.
Sure bits and pieces have move on to other game types.
The longer ive gone void of mmorpgs the less i miss them. From how the communities evolved and tore apart anything good, to the boring as hell mandatory progression with no purpose (and i love progression) right up to the stale endgame and pvp.
Id rather buy a great single player RPG with a great story and narration, a co-op dungeon crawler, and play overwatch for pvp than slog through farms helping lazy farmers and dealing with raid group tyranny.
MMORPGs were great as online gaming became a new thing, but at their heart most mmorpgs were just a shallow cobbling of mini games tied together with incredibly boring busywork.
Im sure we will get future indy games capable of surviving on a spartan community, but i dont think we will ever see a massive AAA mmorpg offering again. Too many investors learned the hard way. Much less money spent on other games can yield much more income without all the baggage mmorpgs had.
Sure id kill for a few older or dead mmorpgs to come back to live with modern tech, but even then, communities that those older games have are ancient times and can never be recreated. Really the thing i miss most about the 1999-2010 mmorpg golden age was the communities and chatting it up in global or clan chat, and really past 2008 thing quickly devolved on that aspect.
Sure i burned out i guess and nothing changed with mmorpgs despite the over use of the term "innovation" they easily could have been more than they were but everyone was stuck chasing wow...which if i could do it all over again id play wow, for all the hate it gets it was the high water mark on the mmorpg golden age, and its still ticking and improving. My only regret was never being able to get into it despite trying three times as hard as i could to get into it. I mean its depressing to try to go back to something like anarchy online and its 100% dead, or other games where you cant because they got shut down.