Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

REZZED: The Most Important MMOs Of The First Modern Decade - The List - MMORPG.com



  • RoguewizRoguewiz Member UncommonPosts: 707
    Wow.  No EQ?  No DAOC?  Heck, you could even argue that City of Heroes should be here due to the massive customization you could do (both cosmetic and advancement)

    Hell, even Shadowbane could arguably get a spot because of the massive battles and sieges of playerbuilt cities (which AFAIK, they were the first to do it)

    Raquelis in various games
    Played: Everything
    Playing: World of Warcraft Classic, Stuff
    Wants: The World
    Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon

    Tank - Healer - Support: The REAL Trinity
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 3,051

    Alizol said:

    EQ doesn't deserve to be on this list. It was game breaking. It didn't bring anything new to the table. It wasnt globally accepted and it didn't shape the world of MMOGs. Y'all should turn off ya fanboy modes and look at the facts.

    1 post.....
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,184
    Yes kids, there were more than 5 influential early MMOs and the extent of their influence is highly debatable. How dare this guy have just 5 that are not my 5... especially Asheron's Call where I lost my MMO virginity. The nerve!
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,658
    edited February 2018
    Leaving out EQ and DAOC is a pretty big mistake. If it weren't for those two games, WoW would not have ever have existed. EQ brought with it, you know, 3d graphics. EQ also brought in grouping and raids. Three huge, defining factors, of MMORPGs. Arguable on the raids part. (WoW,FF14, Rift, SWTOR, LOTRO, and Wildstar would not exist without EQ) DAOC brought in a PvP system that was something players who were not griefers could get into, as well as the original version of Battlegrounds and PvP progression.
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,870

    etharn said:

    WoW hurt the mmo industry imo.

    No, people trying to mirror its success by cloning it did.

    You are both right. The reason games like SWG did NGE, LA creating SWTOR and all those other games was a direct result of WoW's success and companies trying to get a piece. The FF MMO Lead said their game when they redid it was a WoW clone. The one similarity all those different companies had was that they were trying to mimic "WoW" so yes he is right when saying "WoW" hurt the industry.
  • josko9josko9 Member RarePosts: 577
    edited February 2018
    Torval said:
    Man I miss Richard's articles for this very reason, 4 years later and it still stirs up strong opinions. I loved reading his articles. It was also fun discussing and arguing with him. He's an author that often popped into his only article threads and further elaborated his perspective. Great stuff.

    He had 5 spots and I can see why he chose FF11 over EQ. FF11 broke a lot of ground and was actually innovative. EQ was DIKU in 3D. SWG was not significant. Interesting game, but it's a blip on the map. Again, DAoC not that significant in the bigger picture.

    The reason Richard's articles ruffles feathers, in my opinion, is because he does compare things globally. Lineage still has more impact on the industry than any other first gen MMO except for WoW. WoW is still largely driving the western MMO market while Lineage still drives a huge portion of the eastern market on mobile.

    I wanted to pick a different list "because" but I can't argue with it. UO, FF11, Lineage, WoW, and while I wouldn't have picked it I can't argue that FWJ should be on the list. It's very hard to look at things with a broad eye. This article does that.
    While WoW did have a huge impact on the Western MMO market, it's primary market is still the East (China). You don't have to look far for the proof, just look at the recent Warcraft movie which was a massive flop everywhere except in China. Not only did Warcraft succeed in China, it broke all kinds of records there. Sadly China alone is still not enough for the sequel.

    Let's be realistic, WoW never had 12mil subs, probably not even half of that. Blizzard is just using F2P chinese players to heavily inflate their numbers (yes even today!). Besides their numbers were quarterly, so 6mil in a quarter is at best 2-3mil monthly active players in the West. A number that ESO already achieved with Morrowind expansion. Not so impressive anymore eh?

    I don't think people realize how important (and huge) is China's gaming market. Just look over at PUBG as the most recent example, chinese players make up for 80%+ of the entire playerbase. There is a reason why Tencent is so dominating the entire gaming, they have practically no rivals at all, all US-based companies are just fishes compared to them.

    Hell Tencent owns 25% of Activision Blizzard's shares, that's the only reason why Blizzard is even allowed to release games in China. On top of that they even have 84,3% shares in Supercell (seven of the top 20 highest-grossing mobile games), Riot Games (LoL is by far the most successful PC game to date), and now they are about to completely take over Epic Games as well (Fortnite), which has already achieved 45mil of players without even releasing in China, and without the PvE part of the game. Oh and I totally forgot about Dungeon and Fighter and Crossfire, which are 2nd only to LoL. They sure seem to be swallowing the entire gaming market all by themselves, no doubt getting a strong headstart, as there are rumours that China will inevitably drop the ban on Western games.
    Post edited by josko9 on
  • Blazer6992Blazer6992 Member UncommonPosts: 626
    This list is not complete with out SWG.
  • DavodtheTuttDavodtheTutt Member UncommonPosts: 415
    It sounds like a lot of people were looking for an article about the MMORPGs that meant a lot to us, here in the West. This article was more focused on games that most influenced the industry, and sheer numbers is what's important in that sense.

    Perhaps we could have another article, one about the games that first told us, "Yes, you can use your computer to ROLE PLAY, and do it with a Massive Multiplayer base by going Online!"

    The big industry games aren't really about RPG and the MMO part often means hordes of players in battles you just get lost in.

    What we here in the West are looking for is something else.

    EQ gave us that immersive in-the-world view of a land with elves and dwarves and adventures to share.

    SWG (which I never played but revere just from the legends I have read) gave an open world where all sorts of occupations and activities were worthwhile, valued by others.

    City of Heroes provided unprecedented range and customization of characters and powers, and opened up the world of comic book superheroes. (It was the one game to which I kept up a subscription, so I have to refrain from going on and on about that one.)

    If MMORPGs die and are replaced by MOBAs and other MMOs, I believe it will be because those making games failed to look at the best elements of games like these, combine them, and build on them in the direction that EQ was aimed at -- taking the original, PnP RPG experience (which in turn was a refinement of "Let's Pretend") and bring it along as much as possible in the direction of the Holodeck experiences on Star Trek(tm).

    Instead, like WoW, they are taking the visual trappings of EQ to make games that are glorified video-game experiences, battles and more battles for levels and loot, to "keep the quarters coming," and everything else is just new ways to reward (i.e. feed the addiction) the player or get them to cough up more real L$$T for the company.

    But, hey, that's business!
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,658
    WoW was never and has never been F2P in China. The monetization was different, sure, but not free. They had to pay over there in time factors of stuff like 1 day, 7 days, 3 days,ect. That is the primary difference between WoW China and the rest of the world. They absolutely had 12 million subs, obviously some of those subs were the shorter days from China, but it is still 12 million subs. 
  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Member UncommonPosts: 478
    "WoW was able to reach the heights that it did because it was the right game at the right time. The MMOG category was growing and maturing, but the “standard” gameplay of the time was relatively hardcore, even for a fair portion of the serious gamer segment. This meant there was still room (in retrospect, a gigantic amount of it) for a title with, among other differences, a gentler learning curve and overall lower barriers to entry."

    This is an assessment that really baffles me.

    Prior to the release of TBC in January 2007, World of Warcraft had close to (if not) 7 million subscribers. TBC wasn't a "casual friendly" expansion, it merely retooled the numbers involved in high-end content to give access to smaller communities of the same sort of players that had been playing WoW through vanilla, and even went so far as to add more "hardcore" content into the mix. Under TBC, it hit 10 million subscribers. Wrath stepped in the direction of more causal game systems, but it wasn't until Cata that Blizzard moved the game categorically in the direction of catering almost purely to casual gaming, and it was with Cata that subscription numbers began to fall precipitously from 12 million to the estimated 5 million today. Based on the figures, player retention was highest under the two more hardcore offerings of WoW; player retention is the most important measure of success for a title built to retain players.

    The figures do not correlate with the idea that there was room for WoW to grow by moving to a gentler learning curve and lower barriers to entry. In fact, quite the opposite is true; as WoW moved further and further towards gentler learning curves and lower barriers to entry, the subscription numbers have declined dramatically. Blizzard are quite clearly aware of this, as their content pipeline has moved back in the direction of designing content top down (rather than bottom up, which seemed to be their approach through some of Wrath, and all of Cata, MoP and WoD). In addition, they've added some of the social challenges back into the game through the Mythic system.

    What will make of break this discussion is the eventual release of Classic servers. If Classic servers bump sub numbers up over an extended period, then Blizzard (and the wider WoW community) will have some soul-searching to do. If Classic has no meaningful impact, then we can put WoWs ongoing decline down to the natural decline of a game this old. Before you jump on the latter idea however, just go and take a look at EQ and RS; both games released classic servers, both games quickly found that those services were more popular than their most recent offerings. OSRS is a really good example of this.
  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Member UncommonPosts: 478
    edited February 2018
    "Now sure, they have a lot of gamer's...but cmon people...the amount of poor folks far, far, outnumber the people there that have computers or are able to play games."

    58 out of every 100 households have access to a computer in China/ over 50% of the population has access to the Internet. A far cry from the 70-90% seen in the US and Europe, but certainly not as bad as you seem to be suggesting. To put things in perspective: those figures amount to around 700 million Internet users in China, around 700 million in the EU, versus around 300 million in the US. Also, how are we defining poor people here? If we're defining it based on poverty lines, between 2% and 6.5% of the population are in poverty. Income inequality is high, but it's high everywhere (especially in the US, where 4 families control the same amount of wealth as the bottom 50% of the population). Add all of this to the fact that China has some of the highest growing wages in the world, coupled with the fact that China has one of the highest growing Internet-penetration rates in the world... and... yeah... making sweeping statements about a highly nuanced subject matter is a bit of a silly thing to do.
  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Member UncommonPosts: 478

    Wizardry said:

    Being that i have been an active gamer,chat room person for as long as anyone,i have seen all the phases over time in the gaming industry.

    Even when i resided for example in Quake and Unreal Tournament,i talked to a lot of different people about different games because unlike many hanging out in a greedy battle.net,the real gamers hung out in heat.net and multi game multi supported business that allowed gamer's to witness and play all sorts of games and not just Blizz games.T.E.N was another.

    Anyhow to my point,when i was listening and talking about other games,one game came up often outside of the FPS genre and that was Ultima and EQ.I would say Ultima a bit more as EQ was strictly online and Ultima had several single player games.

    NOBODY talked about Blizzard,yeah yeah believe it or not ,i am not making this up and have mentioned many timers,i didn't even know a single thing about Blizzard prior to Wow.

    So the industry and chat rooms were talking Ultima/EQ UT99and Quake and that was the big games.Then of course we had the first rendition of EA sports games like NHLPA 93 and then basketball and Football and golf games.

    The FF franchise was very popular,mostly the FFVII game,for me it was earlier,the FF3 game was amazing and when a friend said FFXI was coming and similar to FF3 i was ready and willing to jump in.

    So there is the timeline and guess what,up until FFXI,nobody cared about Blizzard,it was SOE and SE dominating with soem good games from the Might N Magic series as well Duke Nukem,Baldur's Gate and of course Zenimax/Bethesda

    Yes Wow in 2005 was it,created a stir among kids and a wave of "follow the leader",hes buying so im buying and shes buying,nobody really knowing anything other than they are buying.So i feel unlike the previous era of old school games,i felt Wow was way more a "on a whim purchase" than any of the other games prior.

    I'm sorry, but wat?

    Prior to FFXI, Blizzard had released major titles in the Warcraft, StarCraft and Diablo franchises. Warcraft 3 (which released 2 months after FFXI) and Diablo 2 (which released 2 years before FFXI) are two of the best selling PC games of all time, and were critically acclaimed on their release. StarCraft (which released in 1998) is one of the most critically acclaimed RTS games of all time, and became a huge pro-sport in South Korea.

    In short, Blizzard has been a well-known and highly lauded game developer since the late 90s, arguably earlier (long before FFXI came out). Whatever chat rooms you were frequenting, they were probably delusions of some form.
  • Revy106Revy106 Member UncommonPosts: 46
    no SWG oO??
  • ChicagoCubChicagoCub Member UncommonPosts: 381
    Not mentioning EverQuest = The difference between gaming during the rise of MMO's and reading about gaming during the rise of MMO's.
  • josko9josko9 Member RarePosts: 577
    edited February 2018
    Celcius said:
    WoW was never and has never been F2P in China. The monetization was different, sure, but not free. They had to pay over there in time factors of stuff like 1 day, 7 days, 3 days,ect. That is the primary difference between WoW China and the rest of the world. They absolutely had 12 million subs, obviously some of those subs were the shorter days from China, but it is still 12 million subs. 
    Expansions have been always free for them. As for the subscription itself, there is a difference between maintaining a subscription for 90 days or for 7 days. Imagine if you'd spend 1$ in a 3-month period (a quarter) and Blizzard would count you as a subscriber. And make no mistake, chinese playerbase was always in the majority, especially after the whole debacle with Pandaria, which was obviously not meant for the western market, but they forced it on us anyway. 

    How is it not misleading to count ~7mil of chinese players as subscribers if they'd on average spend less than ~5$ in a whole quarter? Isn't it enough misleading to even count subscribers based on a 3-month period? What's next, subscribers based on all 12 months in a year? Perhaps then they could brag that they hit 12mil "subscribers" again.

    Personally I find monthly active players stat the most fair, sadly Blizzard never used it. 
  • AvanahAvanah Member RarePosts: 1,536
    Sorry, but the most Important 3 should be in this order:

    1996: Meridian 59
    1997: UO
    1999: Everquest

    "My Fantasy is having two men at once...

    One Cooking and One Cleaning!"


    "A good man can make you feel sexy,

    strong and able to take on the whole world...

    oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,733
    haha one of these things pops up every 3 weeks or so and it always makes people SO UPSET that their game didn't make the list of some random person on the internet. never change. 
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • SubilacSubilac Member UncommonPosts: 49
    Everquest and Runescape back in "99" were pure magic. That's where my addiction began. 18 years later, I still play both.
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 1,816
    Evercrack or bust. I come back to this site less and less and things like this sure don't help.
    "Wake up, It's RNG, there is no such thing as 'rare'"
    - Ungood
  • AriesTigerAriesTiger Member UncommonPosts: 444
    I was hoping to see my two favorite MMOs :( lol. Warhammer Online and COV/H.
  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 494
    EQ, UO, AC, DAoC, SB, Lineage, SWG, FF11.

    Without these games you wouldn't have this site. Most credit should go to EQ and UO though as they were more staples then the others. I don't even know if I would consider ff11 first gen either as that came out well after eq, uo and ac (about 4 years). But I do feel it was ahead of its time honestly, same for EQOA.

    WoW I don't like and I'm not fond of the direction its popularity took the genre which caused imo lazy developers to stop being original and start going full on cookie cutter mode BUT it is undeniably the sole reason why mmos are so popular right now. Still not a first gen though, it should hold the #1 spot if they did a list for gen 2. WoW is to gen 2 what eq was to gen 1.
  • chukekle1chukekle1 Member UncommonPosts: 33
    WoW turned social MMOs into easy mode non social gaming, not only can a 5 year old raid in WoW but someone doesnt even have to talk to ppl to join a random dungeon or raid, reputation use to mean something in mmos, if you were an asshole you didnt get groups, but WoW threw that out the window. There is a reason WoW is so popular, it is an EZ game that gives instant gratification and your shitty attitude cause you dont have any social skills to make real friends goes unpunished cause you can just randomly join dungeons, hell with the right add-ons WoW practically plays the game for you, the add-ons tell you what to do, basically all you do in WoW is do what the add-ons tell you and collect the instant gratification loot, EZ mode gaming (aka WoW) is what ruined the MMO genre. Everyone just wants to get to end game in a week then bitch about there being not enough content.
  • WallisHallWallisHall Member UncommonPosts: 15
    lol funny article

    So Richard (new troll to the MMO scene) Aihoshi, interesting opinion, but really not accurate.

    Thanks for your different (revisionist) opinion piece.

    Like many of the people who posted before me, I lived through it and ummm it was definitely more interesting than described here.
  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,729
    Star Wars Galaxies

    World War 2 Online

    Eve Online

    Planetside (1)


    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,439
    edited February 2018
    lol funny article

    So Richard (new troll to the MMO scene) Aihoshi, interesting opinion, but really not accurate.

    Thanks for your different (revisionist) opinion piece.

    Like many of the people who posted before me, I lived through it and ummm it was definitely more interesting than described here.
    So he has an opinion but you have the facts? I just want that to be clear, so your snarky attitude isn't based on some childish 'my opinion is better then yours' notion. Because that would be rather silly now wouldn't it?

    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 

    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...

    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

Sign In or Register to comment.