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The PvP Era - Garrett Fuller - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
edited February 2018 in News & Features Discussion

imageThe PvP Era - Garrett Fuller - MMORPG.com

As MMO players we have likely seen it all. Starting in the early days where MMOs were also open battlegrounds. Games like Ultima Online were just open, with few safe zones. In order to really play though you had to venture outside. However, this trend in competitive gaming has really grown strong in recent titles. Here are a few examples of how we are living in the PvP era.

Read the full story here



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Comments

  • DauzqulDauzqul Member RarePosts: 1,980
    PvP back in the day (World PvP with very little safe zones) felt authentic and real. When I was adventuring close to the opposing faction's land, I always felt uneasy. It was fantastic.

    Nothing kills immersion for me more than Battlegrounds / dedicated PvP areas. I remember when SWTOR came out. Huttball?! /facepalm.
    DrunkWolfCoolitLaviotaTnTizzaRtFuLThinGSlapshot1188MensurbcbullyRolanStormeddieg50and 2 others.
  • Righteous_RockRighteous_Rock Member RarePosts: 1,234
    I like options, wow sill has open world pvp, you just have to know where to look, battle for Azeroth will likely add more purpose than there is now, but it’s still present as we speak and I can’t wait to get home and see what kind of war I get into later.
    bcbullySadfist
  • BlackboaBlackboa Member UncommonPosts: 125
    Right now ESO PvP in Cyrodil is the most fun. Agree though that I wish open world pvp was everywhere instead of just one part of a map.
    AlomarKalebGraysonDragnelusjosko9bcbullyRolanStorm
  • Phoenix_HawkPhoenix_Hawk Member UncommonPosts: 165
    edited February 2018
    So while PvP games, and games billed as PvP games are being shut down left, and right, then older games that have PvP in it, are moving PvP elements into less intrusive forms, we're supposedly in a PvP era for online games?

    Companies keep trying to chase certain big name games. After WoW, online gaming blew up, with more, and more being released all the time, to the point that now online games seem to be treated like temporary games, that companies fully expect to shut down later. After LoL, DOTA 2, and Smite, MOBA, after MOBA has been released, and often shut down a while after. After arena games got big again with Overwatch, we're seeing the same thing happen again.

    Just because companies are chasing trending PvP games, doesn't mean everyone wants PvP. PvP tends to be the thing that dies off first in online games that have both. With Blade & Soul, they've been trying to push it as an Esport game from the start over here, but most playing it now seem to have little, to no interest in PvP. Instanced based online games always have people going nuts over the PvP arena, for a while, then the ones that are left are soon complaining how there's no one PvPing, while the PvE continues to work just fine.
    KajidourdenSamhaelTacticalZombehqomaSadfistBitterClinger
  • TierlessTierless ColumnistMember EpicPosts: 3,377
    We need to go forward by going back to the world sim MMO (which were PVP heavy of course).
    Laviotajosko9FonclSadfistRolanStorm
    But not all men seek rest and peace; some are born with the spirit of the storm in their blood, restless harbingers, knowing no other path.
  • koldmiserkoldmiser Member UncommonPosts: 202
    Damn I miss Dark Age of Camelot RvR! PvP with a reason!
    BlackdefStraefRhiow-DarkstepJixen9KyleranSlapshot1188Tsiya
  • AlomarAlomar Member RarePosts: 1,230
    edited February 2018
    I'm a hardcore pvper waiting to play my 37th mmo at some point this year, and boy do I miss the days of difficult open world pvp. I like maximum realism in my pvp, which to me isn't instanced pvp with even numbers and artificial barriers. I like open world/large-scale pvp, particularly rvr, where the map is influenced by player driven actions and politics. Where armies collide and in the end pre-planning and strategy determine the victor.

    Crowfall and CU and the potential they represent for the near future in enjoyment and competition is like a wet dream for me and the thousands of other hardcore pvpers I've fought alongside and against in the past decade. We've been starved of a good new open world pvp mmo, as each one has come with either p2w, servers unable to handle what they advertise (Swtor and ESO for example), no attempt at balance, or minimal content and attention.

    Our guilds have been forced to go into inactive statuses or suck it up playing dated mmos or half-assed attempted mmos in recent years. We are here, we are waiting, we are legion. Cya on the battlefield...
    LaviotaJixen9Kyleran
    Haxus Council Member
    21  year MMO veteran 
    PvP Raid Leader 
    Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Member RarePosts: 430
    People should be asking themselves...Why do I PVP? For the challenge of competition I hope. If you think it's to prove you are better than anyone else...lol, online or virtual gaming competition proves nothing.
    Sadfist
  • Seige105Seige105 Member UncommonPosts: 17
    What?? So uhhhh don’t pvp to compete?
  • Sal1Sal1 Member UncommonPosts: 369
    The PVP era sucks. I have cut throat darwinisistic survival of the fitist in real life. I play games for fun.
    SadfistRolanStormLanthir
  • JakdstripperJakdstripper Member RarePosts: 2,408
    edited February 2018
    too many CoD kids that just want to gank all day now. back in the day there were player killers but they were few. most people played for adventure and discovery. now it's pretty much the only reasons people play pvp mmos. there is in fact a huge shortage of care bear pvers in most pvp games. it's just a huge gank fest.
    the rules that worked in pvp games 15 years ago dont work anymore. not saying it wasn't fun back then, just that the same game would not be fun today. its a different type of player now. a lot more predatory, a lot more aggressive. the first thing they do is try and find an advantage, the second thing they do is try and find exploits or ways to cheat. it pretty sad.
    cjmarshWylfTacticalZombehmrgrrSadfist
  • Jixen9Jixen9 Member UncommonPosts: 48
    Dark age of camelot was the answer to my pvp needs... Please Camelot Unchained give me that feeling again.. for the last 5-10ish years i feel like all iv been doing with MMORPGs is searching for that same feeling i used to get. I have high hopes for the new mmorpgs that are coming, and im not talking about the korean titles.
    AlomarBruceYee
  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 273
    So wait, you are going to reference DAOC.. put up a screen shot of it and what you want to talk about is Battlegrounds? That's insulting to pretty much everybody who played DAOC and experienced what it brought to the table.

    Battlegrounds in DAOC was just something you could do while leveling up.. it was a training ground if you will that allowed players to get ready for RvR. And here is the kicker, the DAOC battlegrounds were persistent, always on.. non of this queuing up going into an instance to capture a flag mindless crap. If anything this article should be about how all the MMORPGs got Battlegrounds so wrong after DAOC.

    But really, if you are going to reference DAOC talk about what made it special.. RVR. If you aren't talking about RvR and the incredible experience that it gave the gamers who played it (still has not been clone in any game to date), then all you are doing is using their name as click bait.

    And here is something to chew on.. DAOC was not a PvP game... let that sink in. They did have a PvP server like many other games, but the core game was not PvP. If you don't understand that then you need to go do a lot of research about the game because there is an entire generation of gamers who don't get it.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    We do live in a PvP time, with the internet at everybodies homes and bandwidth so cheap that the companies can run their own servers for any FPS game that is just logical.

    The thing with MMO PvP though is that it never really took off the same way PvE have done. How large percentage of the MMORPGers only play PvP compared with the ones only playing PvE? 20%?

    It might be more but nowhere near the amount of PvEers. There is of course a lot of people like me playing both as well but PvP still isn't as popular as PvE.

    Now, that doesn't mean it couldn't be as popular, or for that matter shouldn't be. The reason PvE is so more popular is because MMORPG mechanics so far have done PvE better then PvP. And many of the upcomming games are trying to change that but we aren't there yet and they might very well fail.

    We seen many games that tried it, some with better result then others. DaoC and SWG did a good job trying but fell just a little short to really compete with PvE. Guildwars also did a good try and so did Lineage.

    The problem so far have mainly been that the huge powergap most MMORPGs uses means a lot of the combat had a predetermined outcome based on level and gear. That together with lousy mass combat rules that makes any large fight a zerg means it have a huge problem going up against other genres like FPS and Mobas where every combat could go either way. A combat is just fun if it can go either way, autowin or autoloose makes the game boring and predictable.

    A good enough PvP game can certainly take the genre to the next level. Just look on FPS games, once most of them were single player games but Quake 2 and Counter strike changed all that which open the genre up to many times the players it had before.

    However I feel you are taking out the victory before the battle, none of the PvP games so far have really made it huge besides Lineage aand maybe BDO, at best the others have topped with half a million players and even if you skip Wow as comparision those are nothing compared the PvE games. We might be on the edge of the breakthrough but we might not be as well.

    I do believe that the right PvP MMORPG eventually will become huge but that could just as well take 20 years as something releasing soon. We just need that single amazing game that does for MMORPGs what counter strike did for FPS games but games like that are far between.
    KylerancameltosisSadfist
  • NikaasNikaas Member UncommonPosts: 135

    Sal1 said:

    The PVP era sucks. I have cut throat darwinisistic survival of the fitist in real life. I play games for fun.



    And what is that universal definition of fun? I'm sure you will have no problem at all to define things like toy, game, play, fun that will be complete and most will agree with :)

    TLDR : Fun is highly subjective.
    SadfistRolanStormAlomar
  • darknagualdarknagual Member UncommonPosts: 19
    Darkfall new dawn is where its at for pvp atm. Its been really awesome having hordes of wolves and orks attacking the alfar lands everyday during US peak times. Loads of fun to be had in that game if you want hard core PVP
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 35,993

    Loke666 said:

    We do live in a PvP time, with the internet at everybodies homes and bandwidth so cheap that the companies can run their own servers for any FPS game that is just logical.

    The thing with MMO PvP though is that it never really took off the same way PvE have done. How large percentage of the MMORPGers only play PvP compared with the ones only playing PvE? 20%?

    It might be more but nowhere near the amount of PvEers. There is of course a lot of people like me playing both as well but PvP still isn't as popular as PvE.

    Now, that doesn't mean it couldn't be as popular, or for that matter shouldn't be. The reason PvE is so more popular is because MMORPG mechanics so far have done PvE better then PvP. And many of the upcomming games are trying to change that but we aren't there yet and they might very well fail.

    We seen many games that tried it, some with better result then others. DaoC and SWG did a good job trying but fell just a little short to really compete with PvE. Guildwars also did a good try and so did Lineage.

    The problem so far have mainly been that the huge powergap most MMORPGs uses means a lot of the combat had a predetermined outcome based on level and gear. That together with lousy mass combat rules that makes any large fight a zerg means it have a huge problem going up against other genres like FPS and Mobas where every combat could go either way. A combat is just fun if it can go either way, autowin or autoloose makes the game boring and predictable.

    A good enough PvP game can certainly take the genre to the next level. Just look on FPS games, once most of them were single player games but Quake 2 and Counter strike changed all that which open the genre up to many times the players it had before.

    However I feel you are taking out the victory before the battle, none of the PvP games so far have really made it huge besides Lineage aand maybe BDO, at best the others have topped with half a million players and even if you skip Wow as comparision those are nothing compared the PvE games. We might be on the edge of the breakthrough but we might not be as well.

    I do believe that the right PvP MMORPG eventually will become huge but that could just as well take 20 years as something releasing soon. We just need that single amazing game that does for MMORPGs what counter strike did for FPS games but games like that are far between.



    I've often wondered what a MMORPG might look like with a PVP model that let players be competitive regardless of level.

    Sure, Planetside took one approach, but no real progression to it. DAOC was another good idea, battlegrounds grouped around your level while you progressed, (though seriously, in a 20-24 BG most would not show until lvl 23)

    RVR, which while open to all from lvl 20 onwards, most would not venture much in the frontiers until lvl 49 plus unless they enjoyed getting pointlessly rolled a lot by higher levels.

    Imagine however an open world MMORPG where a player might be "level 10" in terms of PVE progression but should another player attack them both players would be elevated to the same relative level of power, so that there really was an opportunity for a good fight based mostly on skill rather than gear or even the element of surprise.

    Even in the situation of many against few or even one, elevate the side with a disadvantage so much that if 10 attacked one, they'd find themselves fighting the equivalent of a minor dungeon boss mob.

    Sure, the one might lose, but if he was able to kill 7 of the 10 my guess is a lot of the sting would be removed.

    In short, remove the wolves vs sheep design, make it more like wolves attacking another and finding themselves facing a grizzly bear.

    Sure, they might still win, but not without significant cost.

    SadfistRhiow-Darkstep

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • FonclFoncl Member UncommonPosts: 347
    In non-MMORPGs we've never had more options for good competitive PvP and the amount as well as quality of indie-games has never been better in my opinion.

    The most suitable name I can think of for the current MMORPGs is 'the credit card PvP era'. Unfortunately for those of us who don't enjoy 'credit card PvP' it almost always affects both PvE and PvP, I'm sitting out this era of MMORPGs and hoping the next one will be more enjoyable :]
    Sadfist
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,554
    I have Guild Wars 2 for my PvE/exploration experience, but I really want a good RvR game to round out my experience and give me what I'm missing. I really want to see Crowfall in particular succeed, as it looks like the kind of MMO that would fit into my schedule and allow me to choose my preferred PvP rulesets.
  • josko9josko9 Member RarePosts: 577
    ESO already has the best PvP in an MMO this decade, and it's definitively a true successor to DAoC.

    I know many hold DAoC in high regard, but I really think ESO already surpassed it. ESO's siege battles are just a few leagues ahead of everything that was done before it. Now if they'd only fix the technical part of the game, we could talk about best PvP of all time.
    Alomar
  • MensurMensur Member RarePosts: 900

    Dauzqul said:

    PvP back in the day (World PvP with very little safe zones) felt authentic and real. When I was adventuring close to the opposing faction's land, I always felt uneasy. It was fantastic.



    Nothing kills immersion for me more than Battlegrounds / dedicated PvP areas. I remember when SWTOR came out. Huttball?! /facepalm.



    I fucking hate to see what wow has become, a mainstream kid game with no challenge what so ever! Long Live Vanilla and 40 man raids! ¨

    I want a game where i am afraid to level in the opposite faction area, I want a game where I log out of frustration because of corpse camping!

    Sick and tired safe zones, Russian zergs etc.,
    SadfistAlomar

    Proud MMORPG.com member since 2009! 




  • MaelzraelMaelzrael Member UncommonPosts: 405
    I am playing Fortnite almost daily and just resubbed to WoW to play a void elf. So yea this article is pretty spot on.


  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,497
    I reject the premise of the article - I don't think we're living in a PvP era. 

    PvP has been extremely popular since broadband became common place. There may be more options for doing PvP online these days - mobas and survival games primarily - but it doesn't feel like the PvP population has grown at a faster rate than the games industry as a whole. 


    Certainly within MMOs, it doesn't feel like we're in a PvP era. We might be on the edge of one, as a lot of the crowd-funded MMOs are focusing on PvP, but for what we have available right now I wouldn't say we're in a PvP era. I'd say we're in a solo story-focused era. I will be glad when the current era ends as for a long time nothing has been worth my time, I hate this era of MMORPGs. 
  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381
    Never liked enforced PVP and would not touch game with enforced PVP not even with a stick. :-) As for the rest, only game where I truly enjoyed it from time to time was not unfortunately defunct Warhammer online.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,119
    I won’t say I told you so... the youth could give a F less about scripted boss fight and generic questing.

    Now bring on the player driven systems! Risk reward!
    Realizer
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