Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
frostymug said: Is there any progress that can be quantified by a layperson?
That is the crux here, there isn't.
They are in early development which means all the works goes towards backend - a part you, as a user don't see. The fact that the game is very different in design and thus in development terms does not help much either.
And when you add lack of technical/management savvyness, you get plenty of fuel for trolling...therefore threads like this one.
frostymug said: Is there any progress that can be quantified by a layperson?
That is the crux here, there isn't.
They are in early development which means all the works goes towards backend - a part you, as a user don't see. The fact that the game is very different in design and thus in development terms does not help much either.
And when you add lack of technical/management savvyness, you get plenty of fuel for trolling...therefore threads like this one.
You know, I think we may have identified a closet backer here.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Slapshot1188 said: Are most people now comfortable that he will deliver SOMETHING? Yes.
This is everything.. because at one time, they weren't, just like all the other games in development.
If I would fault CoE for anything, it would be not hiding behind a nice sanitized PR face, which seems to be what has drawn all the butthurt ire.
Except about 2 yrs post KSer I was invited to try the CU pre alpha, and I had been seeing videos of the game for 6 months.
It was really rough of course, and just an early engine test with placeholders.
So far COE has much less to show than Ashes which started like last summer.
SBS / Caspian remind me so much of Aventurine / Tasos (?)
All they need to do is relocate the studio to Greece or offshore some of the development to Manilla to make the parallel complete.
Running Pre-alpha events or making pointless videos for the public are just a waste of time and money, both of which bad things to squander when your company is on a tight budget.
They are better served right now to spend their time and money on making the game then wasting it on doing some dog and pony show trying to appease the thankless.
And yah.. Caspian needs to shut it and get a good PR person to hide behind.
Personally, if you really think it will fail and can't get a refund have you considered selling the account to someone that thinks it will happen and at least get some money back?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
frostymug said: Is there any progress that can be quantified by a layperson?
That is the crux here, there isn't.
They are in early development which means all the works goes towards backend - a part you, as a user don't see. The fact that the game is very different in design and thus in development terms does not help much either.
And when you add lack of technical/management savvyness, you get plenty of fuel for trolling...therefore threads like this one.
I actually work under the assumption that the majority of the early work will be on the back end in these endeavors. Yet another reason why I think going to crowdfunding at ground level is an exercise in futility or frustration at best.
However, apparently in this case, established publishers couldn't see much of that work either when it was laid out for them. So it is very much the problem here. I don't know the exact timeline here so I can't really account for whether it was presented before or after the move from SpatialOS which, if anything, likely further pulled the rug out from under the foundation they were trying to establish that I, as a user, don't see.
Point being, in my uneducated eyes, they now more than ever need to be able to show something quantifiable here. Without growing the interested base they are left with going to the same well too many times. That well is showing early signs of a strong bunker mentality so I think it can still last a while, but not indefinitely. They've made a wholesale change to the project and, more specifically, to what all the work and money to this point has been going towards. Now that they are implementing that change they are also downsizing. If they don't have something tangible to show at this point, the backer base probably isn't going to grow much.
Maybe some of those publishers told them to get further along and come back as they say. But if we're using lootboxes as the boogieman then I doubt those publishers are going to decide that they no longer need them to recoup their investment in the game regardless of how far along it is. The monetization plans for ongoing operating costs are nebulous at best and a publisher is still going to need to account for that regardless of where in the process they onboard the game. Lootboxes are so attractive that EA is still planning to drop them back in Battlefront II even after all the shit they took over them. There's already a cash shop to drop lootboxes in and I can't honestly see a publisher getting too excited about getting 30 bucks per user every year, give or take a couple months.
I do agree on the savvyness. While the link that started the thread is just directly to the information SBS presented, the way some of it was presented got my spidey senses tingling. So I started looking more into a project I had interest and doubts in, but was waiting on because I knew they were mostly going to be building out the back end first and any information would mostly be hype pieces. Now I can say I have more doubts than interest.
Point being, in my uneducated eyes, they now more than ever need to be able to show something quantifiable here.
I think the main problem here is that none of us are really qualified to say one way or another, unless a few of us are hiding the fact that we are in fact game developers. But, given the raw ego I have seen on this forum, no one would refrain from tossing their cred here.
Equally so, I finally, opted to look up this guy Jeromy W (AKA: Caspian), and he seems to have the credentials to know what he is doing better then anyone here.
I also noticed that their community had listed 150K members, so expecting a few hundred thousand sales after launch is not really that unrealistic.
Even if he only got the 150K, he already has, that would still be 6 million at launch, which is a good sale point to any backer.. I just think he needs to have a more diverse portfolio of ways to make money outside the single sales and sparks of life.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Point being, in my uneducated eyes, they now more than ever need to be able to show something quantifiable here.
I think the main problem here is that none of us are really qualified to say one way or another, unless a few of us are hiding the fact that we are in fact game developers. But, given the raw ego I have seen on this forum, no one would refrain from tossing their cred here.
Equally so, I finally, opted to look up this guy Jeromy W (AKA: Caspian), and he seems to have the credentials to know what he is doing better then anyone here.
I also noticed that their community had listed 150K members, so expecting a few hundred thousand sales after launch is not really that unrealistic.
Even if he only got the 150K, he already has, that would still be 6 million at launch, which is a good sale point to any backer.. I just think he needs to have a more diverse portfolio of ways to make money outside the single sales and sparks of life.
I think the last word we got was that they have 16k accounts purchased.. maybe more but less than 20k. Forum accounts are meaningless. Mortal Online used to list forum accounts in their quarterly updates... they never materialized in game. Maybe 150k will materialize. I doubt it... but more importantly, apparently the Publishers they pitched the game to didn’t think so either.
Those guys probably have a more accurate gauge of the likelihood than you, me or Caspien combined. Sure they can make mistakes, but so far NONE of them have bought into the sales pitch. Maybe they are all wrong too... not impossible... but highly unlikely.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Point being, in my uneducated eyes, they now more than ever need to be able to show something quantifiable here.
I think the main problem here is that none of us are really qualified to say one way or another, unless a few of us are hiding the fact that we are in fact game developers. But, given the raw ego I have seen on this forum, no one would refrain from tossing their cred here.
Equally so, I finally, opted to look up this guy Jeromy W (AKA: Caspian), and he seems to have the credentials to know what he is doing better then anyone here.
I also noticed that their community had listed 150K members, so expecting a few hundred thousand sales after launch is not really that unrealistic.
Even if he only got the 150K, he already has, that would still be 6 million at launch, which is a good sale point to any backer.. I just think he needs to have a more diverse portfolio of ways to make money outside the single sales and sparks of life.
You like to use the we aren't qualified and are all just egotistical here argument quite a bit. Almost like some kind of... bunker mentality. Should I assume you are both a professional resume builder and psychologist in order to be "really qualified to say one way or another" on those opinions? One does not have to be a trash collector to know trash.
Ahhh, I see my assumption was made in error. If you opted to look at Jeromy Walsh's credentials you would notice he has explicitly shown exactly as much MMORPG building experience as you assume we all have. No matter though, as we all know MMORPGs are just like any other game as far as development and requirements. On that line, you would probably also notice that all his experience in the gaming industry consisted of building tools for the people actually developing the game itself. No, wait, he also worked on the minimap, camera boundary managers, and collision detection systems in War of the Ring. There it is. Game development experience.
Not to shit on anybody's dream, but it's really not that different than a lot of the other MMORPG pitches that people who have no idea what it really entails make, aside from the fact he found people who were willing to throw their money at it. Sometimes I do miss those posts on here from people asking for help to do all the work to bring their MMORPG idea to fruition. Stupid crowdfunding...
As a side note, my raw ego would like me to mention that I did spend three years as a QA Tester in the gaming industry way back in the early to mid 90s, which coincidentally happens to be exactly as long as Mssr Walsh's experience prior to this endeavor. My raw ego would not like you to know that I don't even list it on my resume.
I won't really get into those numbers and why I think they are extremely optimistic.
Ultimately, was your point that you do not think they need to show something quantifiable? If they didn't get enough to complete the game from their initial crowdfunding, and they didn't get enough done with that funding to entice a publisher, I still fairly comfortably, albeit unqualifiedly, suggest they need to show something more quantifiable. Front end or back end, depending on which way you want to try to procure funding moving forward.
It's probably because I viewed this project with a more negative slant from the get go, but the more I see the arguments from both sides, the more I realize that negative slant was probably justified. I don't know. If we only had a professional psychologist here...
frostymug said: One does not have to be a trash collector to know trash.
Your right, you don't need to be trash collector to know trash when you see it, that works in all directions..
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
frostymug said: One does not have to be a trash collector to know trash.
Your right, you don't need to be trash collector to know trash when you see it, that works in all directions..
*You're
I did forget to mention partial quotes as part of the whole when the bunker mentality generally devolves into ad hominems and straw man arguments. Thanks for the reminder.
Also, great job at offering a counter to the discussion you decided to invoke. I took you're your angle and ran with it. Seems like all I got was a raw ego response. Well done, Hefty. Or is it Glad?
Slapshot1188 said: Are most people now comfortable that he will deliver SOMETHING? Yes.
This is everything.. because at one time, they weren't, just like all the other games in development.
If I would fault CoE for anything, it would be not hiding behind a nice sanitized PR face, which seems to be what has drawn all the butthurt ire.
Except about 2 yrs post KSer I was invited to try the CU pre alpha, and I had been seeing videos of the game for 6 months.
It was really rough of course, and just an early engine test with placeholders.
So far COE has much less to show than Ashes which started like last summer.
SBS / Caspian remind me so much of Aventurine / Tasos (?)
All they need to do is relocate the studio to Greece or offshore some of the development to Manilla to make the parallel complete.
Running Pre-alpha events or making pointless videos for the public are just a waste of time and money, both of which bad things to squander when your company is on a tight budget.
They are better served right now to spend their time and money on making the game then wasting it on doing some dog and pony show trying to appease the thankless.
You do realize most (not all) pre alpha events are for the purpose of testing the game and not a "dog and pony show" right?
I mean I suppose you could just not do any testing at all and then release the game and then deal with the fallout of a game breaking bug that prevents people from logging in because you decided it wasn't worth your time to do a dog and pony show.
Because that is the point here. It is no more than people playing self-righteous, all-knowing armchair developers.
People still make bold claims, conjectures and even dare to question competence and tell others how they should run development and their company.
Based on what? Uneducated eyes, false reasoning, lack of any required proficiency, data or just general clue about industry or projects of this size...right....
Oh, I think there is a gross misunderstanding. I was actually refering to your uneducated eyes, not SBS.
I suppose that demonstrated my point rather well...
I didn't create the thread. I don't come here to troll. If I did I'm pretty sure I would have far more than 420 posts in the same amount of time it took you to rack your count up.
Here's a free, brief lesson in language usage to make a case that seemed to slip your grasp over the course of 10,950 forum posts though. When you are making points about one subject, in order to clearly convey that you are switching subjects you should state such or clearly define your subjects.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Example: I have no doubt that my business and technical savvy is quite fine. I am also quite sure my eyes are plenty educated. (the subject is clearly me)
Other subjects, who shall remain unnamed, appear to have been taken for suckers with their money so I can not vouch for their education. It's referring, by the way. (the subject is anonymous, but clearly not me)
Hope that helps. We can go over better ways to try to be slick and redirect next time if you would like. It could be a good lesson for you. I won't say that I knew what you were trying to convey based on reading so many of your posts in the past and the fact that you defend this game and developer and would not suggest they lack savvy. So naturally, that wasn't a redirect on my part...
I am a bit jealous of your purple name though. You got that going for you.
I started out only making points as to why I have doubts about this project, even though it sounds like something I would very much enjoy.
There were a few decent explanations and counters, but mostly it seemed to have devolved into obvious backers or pro-project factions taking partial quotes and trying to turn them into ad hominems.
While it does take the focus further from the actual subject of the thread (that's trolling, by the way, purple one), it doesn't really put the community that seems to be in fairly dire straits monetarily in a very good light to outsiders. The only person who has even made any sort of case is the one that many were calling a troll in the first place.
If you do want to continue with the ad homs I am more than happy to play along though.
When you are making points about one subject, in order to clearly convey that you are switching subjects you should state such or clearly define your subjects.
Hilarious.
Do you even realize that it was you who changed the subject, not me?
You switched right when you smelled that some part of my comment would fit your narrative...
I'd just like to point out, "backend" shouldn't be used as some mystical throw around term. It seems it's said by COE whenever they want to tell people they are working. Building a game engine is something usually done in steps. There are things you need and things you don't etc. The fact they are still throwing around these blanket terms, while not talking about anything they've added doesn't exude much confidence to me.
When you are making points about one subject, in order to clearly convey that you are switching subjects you should state such or clearly define your subjects.
Hilarious.
Do you even realize that it was you who changed the subject, not me?
You switched right when you smelled that some part of my comment would fit your narrative...
I didn't come here with a narrative. I read here a lot. I normally don't post much because I don't want to get caught up in someone else's narrative. This was just a project that I was interested in seeing succeed. So, given that the state of the studio was the original purpose of the thread and success is not looking real good in that regard, I thought I would post what my personal concerns were. There are people here who seem to know a lot more about what is going on behind the scenes since useful information is inexplicably hidden from the general public. Which is counter intuitive in a project that appears to need funding from that general public. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, you aren't one of those people.
I also may have mentioned that I did intentionally redirect it in that post that you partially quoted again.
If you want, we can go over sarcasm at the same time we go over being a little slicker with redirects if you'd like.
Because that is the point here. It is no more than people playing self-righteous, all-knowing armchair developers.
People still make bold claims, conjectures and even dare to question competence and tell others how they should run development and their company.
Based on what? Uneducated eyes, false reasoning, lack of any required proficiency, data or just general clue about industry or projects of this size...right....
That's funny because the way I recall it, you're usually the one who doesn't understand how a development cycle works. You've made that quite evident in the past.
Because that is the point here. It is no more than people playing self-righteous, all-knowing armchair developers.
People still make bold claims, conjectures and even dare to question competence and tell others how they should run development and their company.
Based on what? Uneducated eyes, false reasoning, lack of any required proficiency, data or just general clue about industry or projects of this size...right....
If only people who were qualified to develop an MMORPG in that regard were allowed to post their opinions and viewpoints these would be pretty quiet forums. Incidentally, Jeromy Walsh couldn't even post here unless it was a thread about game art, tech demo videos, minimaps, fabled back ends (game context), or development tools.
In my job I don't know specifically how to read the results of high performance liquid chromatography, but I still know when those results don't look right. Or it is taking too long.
I'm not a garbage collector, but I can still see when the dumpster is full.
You might have a good case if we were on the Forbes or MSNBC forums, but these are forums for MMORPGs. This isn't the first time anyone here has followed a MMORPG's development. I wouldn't even comment if my only concern was that it was taking too long. The issue is that it is taking a long time and there is no stable source of funds as it goes along. Crowdfunding from a small circle won't last forever and publishers obviously aren't interested enough. There is a general baseline we know here and can compare to.
The whole revolutionary thing isn't a strong case anymore. They burned all their money on implementing that before they redirected to building it in house instead. If we're going to use that as a reason then we can state with fair certainty that they are not going to get the game to a playable, enjoyable state at all because we have a baseline for that as well.
The whole point that got us twisted to here is that I stated my opinion that they should create and offer something tangible to the public so people who do hang out on the Forbes or MSNBC forums can see something that may interest them enough to open their wallet and help get this completed. My eyes might not be as uneducated as I played them to be. Just didn't think that comment would lead to being insulted by fellow mmorpg nerds who can't make a case. To be fair, I should have known.
If we can't offer our opinions on MMORPGs on these discussion forums then what can we talk about? How's the weather there? It's 56F and cloudy here. It's also 4AM, but it looks like it's going to rain later so it probably won't get much warmer. I bet you're a big Lee Marvin fan, aren't ya. Yeah, me too. I love that guy. My heart's beatin' so fast I'm about to have a heart attack.
Comments
It was really rough of course, and just an early engine test with placeholders.
So far COE has much less to show than Ashes which started like last summer.
SBS / Caspian remind me so much of Aventurine / Tasos (?)
All they need to do is relocate the studio to Greece or offshore some of the development to Manilla to make the parallel complete.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They are in early development which means all the works goes towards backend - a part you, as a user don't see. The fact that the game is very different in design and thus in development terms does not help much either.
And when you add lack of technical/management savvyness, you get plenty of fuel for trolling...therefore threads like this one.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
i was part of the prelaunch community for Darkfall
we would sometimes go MONTHS without a single comment from them (or at least felt that way)
It was the latter point which I was referring to.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They are better served right now to spend their time and money on making the game then wasting it on doing some dog and pony show trying to appease the thankless.
And yah.. Caspian needs to shut it and get a good PR person to hide behind.
Personally, if you really think it will fail and can't get a refund have you considered selling the account to someone that thinks it will happen and at least get some money back?
However, apparently in this case, established publishers couldn't see much of that work either when it was laid out for them. So it is very much the problem here. I don't know the exact timeline here so I can't really account for whether it was presented before or after the move from SpatialOS which, if anything, likely further pulled the rug out from under the foundation they were trying to establish that I, as a user, don't see.
Point being, in my uneducated eyes, they now more than ever need to be able to show something quantifiable here. Without growing the interested base they are left with going to the same well too many times. That well is showing early signs of a strong bunker mentality so I think it can still last a while, but not indefinitely. They've made a wholesale change to the project and, more specifically, to what all the work and money to this point has been going towards. Now that they are implementing that change they are also downsizing. If they don't have something tangible to show at this point, the backer base probably isn't going to grow much.
Maybe some of those publishers told them to get further along and come back as they say. But if we're using lootboxes as the boogieman then I doubt those publishers are going to decide that they no longer need them to recoup their investment in the game regardless of how far along it is. The monetization plans for ongoing operating costs are nebulous at best and a publisher is still going to need to account for that regardless of where in the process they onboard the game. Lootboxes are so attractive that EA is still planning to drop them back in Battlefront II even after all the shit they took over them. There's already a cash shop to drop lootboxes in and I can't honestly see a publisher getting too excited about getting 30 bucks per user every year, give or take a couple months.
I do agree on the savvyness. While the link that started the thread is just directly to the information SBS presented, the way some of it was presented got my spidey senses tingling. So I started looking more into a project I had interest and doubts in, but was waiting on because I knew they were mostly going to be building out the back end first and any information would mostly be hype pieces. Now I can say I have more doubts than interest.
Equally so, I finally, opted to look up this guy Jeromy W (AKA: Caspian), and he seems to have the credentials to know what he is doing better then anyone here.
I also noticed that their community had listed 150K members, so expecting a few hundred thousand sales after launch is not really that unrealistic.
Even if he only got the 150K, he already has, that would still be 6 million at launch, which is a good sale point to any backer.. I just think he needs to have a more diverse portfolio of ways to make money outside the single sales and sparks of life.
Those guys probably have a more accurate gauge of the likelihood than you, me or Caspien combined. Sure they can make mistakes, but so far NONE of them have bought into the sales pitch. Maybe they are all wrong too... not impossible... but highly unlikely.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ahhh, I see my assumption was made in error. If you opted to look at Jeromy Walsh's credentials you would notice he has explicitly shown exactly as much MMORPG building experience as you assume we all have. No matter though, as we all know MMORPGs are just like any other game as far as development and requirements. On that line, you would probably also notice that all his experience in the gaming industry consisted of building tools for the people actually developing the game itself. No, wait, he also worked on the minimap, camera boundary managers, and collision detection systems in War of the Ring. There it is. Game development experience.
Not to shit on anybody's dream, but it's really not that different than a lot of the other MMORPG pitches that people who have no idea what it really entails make, aside from the fact he found people who were willing to throw their money at it. Sometimes I do miss those posts on here from people asking for help to do all the work to bring their MMORPG idea to fruition. Stupid crowdfunding...
As a side note, my raw ego would like me to mention that I did spend three years as a QA Tester in the gaming industry way back in the early to mid 90s, which coincidentally happens to be exactly as long as Mssr Walsh's experience prior to this endeavor. My raw ego would not like you to know that I don't even list it on my resume.
I won't really get into those numbers and why I think they are extremely optimistic.
Ultimately, was your point that you do not think they need to show something quantifiable? If they didn't get enough to complete the game from their initial crowdfunding, and they didn't get enough done with that funding to entice a publisher, I still fairly comfortably, albeit unqualifiedly, suggest they need to show something more quantifiable. Front end or back end, depending on which way you want to try to procure funding moving forward.
It's probably because I viewed this project with a more negative slant from the get go, but the more I see the arguments from both sides, the more I realize that negative slant was probably justified. I don't know. If we only had a professional psychologist here...
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I did forget to mention partial quotes as part of the whole when the bunker mentality generally devolves into ad hominems and straw man arguments. Thanks for the reminder.
Also, great job at offering a counter to the discussion you decided to invoke. I took you're your angle and ran with it. Seems like all I got was a raw ego response. Well done, Hefty. Or is it Glad?
I mean I suppose you could just not do any testing at all and then release the game and then deal with the fallout of a game breaking bug that prevents people from logging in because you decided it wasn't worth your time to do a dog and pony show.
I suppose that demonstrated my point rather well...
People still make bold claims, conjectures and even dare to question competence and tell others how they should run development and their company.
Based on what? Uneducated eyes, false reasoning, lack of any required proficiency, data or just general clue about industry or projects of this size...right....
Here's a free, brief lesson in language usage to make a case that seemed to slip your grasp over the course of 10,950 forum posts though. When you are making points about one subject, in order to clearly convey that you are switching subjects you should state such or clearly define your subjects.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example:
I have no doubt that my business and technical savvy is quite fine. I am also quite sure my eyes are plenty educated. (the subject is clearly me)
Other subjects, who shall remain unnamed, appear to have been taken for suckers with their money so I can not vouch for their education. It's referring, by the way. (the subject is anonymous, but clearly not me)
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Hope that helps. We can go over better ways to try to be slick and redirect next time if you would like. It could be a good lesson for you. I won't say that I knew what you were trying to convey based on reading so many of your posts in the past and the fact that you defend this game and developer and would not suggest they lack savvy. So naturally, that wasn't a redirect on my part...
I am a bit jealous of your purple name though. You got that going for you.
There were a few decent explanations and counters, but mostly it seemed to have devolved into obvious backers or pro-project factions taking partial quotes and trying to turn them into ad hominems.
While it does take the focus further from the actual subject of the thread (that's trolling, by the way, purple one), it doesn't really put the community that seems to be in fairly dire straits monetarily in a very good light to outsiders. The only person who has even made any sort of case is the one that many were calling a troll in the first place.
If you do want to continue with the ad homs I am more than happy to play along though.
Do you even realize that it was you who changed the subject, not me?
You switched right when you smelled that some part of my comment would fit your narrative...
I also may have mentioned that I did intentionally redirect it in that post that you partially quoted again.
If you want, we can go over sarcasm at the same time we go over being a little slicker with redirects if you'd like.
Hilarious indeed.
In my job I don't know specifically how to read the results of high performance liquid chromatography, but I still know when those results don't look right. Or it is taking too long.
I'm not a garbage collector, but I can still see when the dumpster is full.
You might have a good case if we were on the Forbes or MSNBC forums, but these are forums for MMORPGs. This isn't the first time anyone here has followed a MMORPG's development. I wouldn't even comment if my only concern was that it was taking too long. The issue is that it is taking a long time and there is no stable source of funds as it goes along. Crowdfunding from a small circle won't last forever and publishers obviously aren't interested enough. There is a general baseline we know here and can compare to.
The whole revolutionary thing isn't a strong case anymore. They burned all their money on implementing that before they redirected to building it in house instead. If we're going to use that as a reason then we can state with fair certainty that they are not going to get the game to a playable, enjoyable state at all because we have a baseline for that as well.
The whole point that got us twisted to here is that I stated my opinion that they should create and offer something tangible to the public so people who do hang out on the Forbes or MSNBC forums can see something that may interest them enough to open their wallet and help get this completed. My eyes might not be as uneducated as I played them to be. Just didn't think that comment would lead to being insulted by fellow mmorpg nerds who can't make a case. To be fair, I should have known.
If we can't offer our opinions on MMORPGs on these discussion forums then what can we talk about? How's the weather there? It's 56F and cloudy here. It's also 4AM, but it looks like it's going to rain later so it probably won't get much warmer. I bet you're a big Lee Marvin fan, aren't ya. Yeah, me too. I love that guy. My heart's beatin' so fast I'm about to have a heart attack.