Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Elder Scrolls Online - To Trinity or Not to Trinity? - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
edited February 2018 in News & Features Discussion

imageElder Scrolls Online - To Trinity or Not to Trinity? - MMORPG.com

We have the trinity in Elder Scrolls Online, but it’s not set in stone. We are not forced into roles. I talked about this a little in the previous column about the Dragonknight. Ever since I wrote that piece I wanted to expand on the freedom we have in this game.

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


«1

Comments

  • sneakerz007sneakerz007 Member UncommonPosts: 92
    I like the trinity. If you can do it all might as well just play solo. The purpose for the trinity is to make people get together and work together. I dont mind classes being able to do a little out of their main role but being able to do everything on your own?
    daltaniousAgent_Josephdanwest58Samhaelhalldorr
  • khameleonkhameleon Member UncommonPosts: 484


    I like the trinity. If you can do it all might as well just play solo. The purpose for the trinity is to make people get together and work together. I dont mind classes being able to do a little out of their main role but being able to do everything on your own?



    You can't do it all alone, you have the choice to build however you want though. And you can probably adjust your role somewhat to FILL another role many times. So it means you still need teamwork, but you dont have to build ONE way like boring WOW type games to fill a role.
    YashaX

    GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!

  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,015
    the whole trinity system is is pretty much built for grouping and that's great(if you're the social type). but alot of games these days are also trying to cater to the solo player while still shoveling them towards that group content designed for that other group. and that can get a bit messy. especially when the least popular role is the most important one. it's a tough nut to crack.
    daltaniousAgent_JosephSamhael

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • ChaserzChaserz Member UncommonPosts: 244
    While ESO is an amazing MMO, I dislike both not having the trinity and also dislike the level scaling throughout the entire (non-instanced) world. Of both I dislike the latter more. There is something to be said about character progression and the perks of such. Scaling all levels to the nearly the same ruins that. And frankly the Champion Point system seems minuscule or slow at distinguishing said progression. I am a new CP 300 now. While some Vet dungeons are easier, many are near impossible for me. While ESO offers many options to keep you in the game, the nuts and bolts sense of progression -like level 1-10, mean more to me than the tiny amount of difference a Champion level seems to gains me.
    daltanious
  • DEATHRAMENTDEATHRAMENT Member UncommonPosts: 700
    edited February 2018
    There are 2 reasons why i don't play this game. The lack of trinity is the first. I just prefer a game with a strong trinity system. I enjoy the set roles and the need for them. Also the raiding system i don't like. This time trial thing put's me off.
    Guess i just prefer traditional mmorpg's. *edit.... Also the lack of an auction house...maybe they changed that now..idk.
    daltanious
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,094
    edited February 2018
    It most ceratinly is set in stone , If you want to participate in endgame and be succesful , Trinity is in stone, A s well is only a handful of builds .. Or you will find yourself failing miserably and or be kiked from groups ..

    Aside from that .. you are right in 92% of the overland content you can be whatever you want(build) .. Heck, Helen Keller could solo most of it with some good keyboard training
    bcbullycjmarshssupple21Xodicdaltanious
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,984

    Scorchien said:

    It most ceratinly is set in stone , If you want to participate in endgame and be succesful , Trinity is in stone, A s well is only a handful of builds .. Or you will find yourself failing miserably and or be kiked from groups ..



    Aside from that .. you are right in 92% of the overland content you can be whatever you want(build) .. Heck, Helen Keller could solo most of it with some good keyboard training



    The freedom in eso comes in the form of how to tank. Man if you’re good and can coneptualize builds you can do it.

    Telling people a tank is not needed is misleading. If you are not superbly geared with cap champion points doing 4 year old content, a tank is needed...
    ScorchienIselinjarsku85gervaise1daltaniousYashaX
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,116

    Chaserz said:

    While ESO is an amazing MMO, I dislike both not having the trinity and also dislike the level scaling throughout the entire (non-instanced) world. Of both I dislike the latter more. There is something to be said about character progression and the perks of such. Scaling all levels to the nearly the same ruins that. And frankly the Champion Point system seems minuscule or slow at distinguishing said progression. I am a new CP 300 now. While some Vet dungeons are easier, many are near impossible for me. While ESO offers many options to keep you in the game, the nuts and bolts sense of progression -like level 1-10, mean more to me than the tiny amount of difference a Champion level seems to gains me.



    I dislike the level scaling too!
    Chaserzdaltanious

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • cjmarshcjmarsh Member UncommonPosts: 299
    I don't even like classes at all. The only combat I've enjoyed in recent MMOs I've played was BDO's action combat and Eve's... Eve combat. I think I must just be over the tab-targeted trinity because I couldn't last long in both the times I tried coming back to ESO.
  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 874
    ESO gives you the illusion of choice.
    XodicMicro_CutsdaltaniousAgent_JosephSamhael

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,610
    ESO is most definitely a trinity game in all instanced group content by design but unlike other more traditional trinity games tanks can't turn every group encounter into a tank'n'spank because also by design, almost every single boss in group instances has one or more unique mechanics designed to ignore aggro tables and attack someone other than the tank.

    Sometimes it's a random target and sometimes it can be the player furthest away from the boss but they all have it even in the easiest 3 dungeons unlocked at level 10. and unlike other trinity games the game also lacks any form of AOE taunting. This is also by design.

    You put all those things together and ESO group content is a special case of trinity-based game play where even if you're not tanking you need to be alert and have good situational awareness. This is a good thing and what makes group dungeons in this game more fun.

    Having said that, can group content be cheesed through a combination of the right abilities and champion points making tanking and even dedicated healers optional? Of course it can. If your DPS is high enough, you have high CP and you have a build designed for the solo raid, Maelstrom Arena, you and 3 others with similar DPS build can ignore the trinity in a lot of content and just power through.

    But that is a special case and common though it may be now 4 years after release, when there are a lot of players capable of cheesing the content and bored enough that they just want to power through the three Undaunted daily dungeons for the reward as fast as humanly possible, that does not negate the fact that instanced group content in the game is still very much designed for trinity game play.

    Some people also seem to be confused over build flexibility and what that means. What it does mean is that you can easily change your build to adapt it for the content you're doing. There are casual solo builds, Maelstrom Arena solo builds, instanced 4-man group builds, PVP builds, Trial builds... it's up to you to adjust your build depending on what you're doing after you have your own think about what you should be doing differently and why.

    What build flexibility does not mean is that you pick one single solitary build for yourself and insist on using it without adjustments in all content. 

    Trials are also a special case and a kind of funny one in that there are way too many players, whether they are part of the small minority that actually runs trials regularly or not, obsessed with the min/maxed trial builds that like to complain about how ESO pigeonholes you into just a handful of viable builds.

    Let me ask you this: have you ever run trials as your primary activity in any MMORPG? If you have you wouldn't need anyone to tell you that trials are the domain of the min/maxers. Of course they will synthesize any game down to the best of the best classes, abilities and gear and make a mockery of any build flexibility a given game may have. There is nothing unique about how that crowd builds for trials in ESO.

    If you listen to what they're saying and think that they're talking about your build when you yourself do not run trials at all, you're totally missing the point. If what they say depresses you and makes you think that build freedom doesn't really exist that's your own fault for misunderstanding what they're talking about: they're not talking about the other 95% of the game where build flexibility is very much a thing in ESO. They're talking about hard mode trial runs in record time.
    hallucigenocideJamesGoblingervaise1YashaX
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Micro_CutsMicro_Cuts Member UncommonPosts: 38
    edited February 2018
    the truth is in ESO's endgame is no freedom. if you wanna play the most challenging content you have to use meta builds.
    cronius77Gobstopper3DAgent_Joseph
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,870
    edited February 2018
    I like the trinity. If you can do it all might as well just play solo. The purpose for the trinity is to make people get together and work together. <snip>
    There are 2 reasons why i don't play this game. The lack of trinity is the first. I just prefer a game with a strong trinity system. <snip>
    In a "trinity game" everybody is free to pick whichever class they want. So you might as well just play solo yes? Or not bother playing?

    Characters in ESO have the freedom to change. That doesn't mean that group content can be completed by a group with identical builds; same as a group of characters with the same class. (If they can its not proper trinity right? Or - as @Iselin says - long term players probably can but that's not just true in ESO). 

    Its the content that makes the game "trinity" - specifically what is needed to complete it - not whether a character can be multi-classed.
  • Tyr216Tyr216 Member UncommonPosts: 166


    the truth is in ESO's endgame is no freedom. if you wanna play the most challenging content you have to use meta builds.



    That's exactly what I was going to say. It's just the illusion of freedom. If you want to be a casual/solo player who doesn't really dabble much in the end game group content, you can play any way you want and you'll be fine. The leveling process is certainly a prime example of this. But then once you get to the end game group content, you hit a brick wall and all that freedom you once had is now funneled into cookie cutter builds just like in any other MMORPG and if you don't conform to these builds, you won't get invited to groups that are doing the challenging content. That's ultimately why I stepped away from the game. The way I want to play my character is not supported by the way I want to play the game. I really hate the misleading sentiment going around about this game that there is a great deal of freedom. You only have freedom when your choices don't actually matter.
    OzmodanGobstopper3DAgent_Joseph

    image
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    On PC I noticed a lot of players keeping to it in group content. On console I see way more DPS DPS DPS DPS groups .. completely different mentality.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    the truth is in ESO's endgame is no freedom. if you wanna play the most challenging content you have to use meta builds.
    No. If you want to play the most challenging content in the most efficient manner there is a best build per class and best classes to take. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have build diversity and optimized efficiency.
    gervaise1SovrathOzmodanYashaX
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • NomadMorlockNomadMorlock Member UncommonPosts: 814
    ESO is most certainly a Trinity based game.

    In overland questing and normal Dungeons you have flexibility to do content without an optimized group.

    In harder content such as Veteran Dungeons, you're not doing it without a tank and heals. (You can however run with a healing tank and 3 DPS, etc) and you have a lot of versatile builds with which you can accomplish this.

    When you move to Veteran Trials, you do have to have a much more optimized group and there are builds which excel beyond most make it easier to succeed.

    Your ability to play different roles on any class however do make the game more inclusive and the diversity of builds isn't matched by any other MMO at the moment in my opinion. This however does allow for bad builds that just don't work well, but I prefer the freedom to find that out myself.



    TorvalOctagon7711gervaise1
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,870
    edited February 2018
    Tyr216 said:


    the truth is in ESO's endgame is no freedom. if you wanna play the most challenging content you have to use meta builds.


    That's exactly what I was going to say. It's just the illusion of freedom. If you want to be a casual/solo player who doesn't really dabble much in the end game group content, you can play any way you want and you'll be fine. The leveling process is certainly a prime example of this. But then once you get to the end game group content, you hit a brick wall and all that freedom you once had is now funneled into cookie cutter builds just like in any other MMORPG and if you don't conform to these builds, you won't get invited to groups that are doing the challenging content. That's ultimately why I stepped away from the game. The way I want to play my character is not supported by the way I want to play the game. I really hate the misleading sentiment going around about this game that there is a great deal of freedom. You only have freedom when your choices don't actually matter.
    Not exactly; yes and no.

    More correctly I suggest: as content becomes harder your freedom for solo content or the freedom of your group for group content diminishes. Relative to the "capability" of the character(s).

    This doesn't mean that it misleading to suggest that players have freedom since most players for most content do. 

    Even in end game content there are choices: @Iselin 's comments about mechanics - you still have to be prepared to take on a different role or work differently and @Torval 's comments - if you are not bothered about doing it in record speed your choice expands. 


    What is also at play though is a character's capability. And as th enumber of champion points a character can have increases long term players have become more and more powerful. And with more power comes more freedom. The downside though: challenge diminishes. (Happens in lots of games not just ESO.) Which harks back to something @Iselin brought up in an earlier thread: the introduction of something higher than vet level in the dungeons.

    At the end of the day its a pendulum. One way it swings towards challenge, the other direction lies freedom.
    Torval
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,958
    In games that have a strong trinity I used alts a lot.  Needed a tank, hold on a min. and I'll login my tank.  So flexibility has always been there for me.  Now, I still have lots of alts and use them as needed, so not much has changed for me.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,292
    I prefer trinity design, but I also like classes being able to build to fill multiple roles in different ways. 

    The main problem I see with ESO is the limitations associated with its physical and magical damage types and stamina vs. magicka. These systems make buildcrafting highly underwhelming by limiting synergy. 
  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,878
    It won't work in trials, but have blown through veteran 4-man dungeons with 3 sorcs all dps many times. 


  • AzorAhai-ArchangelAzorAhai-Archangel Member UncommonPosts: 26
    The freedom that ESO offers is one of the MANY reasons I still play it and haven't "moved on" to another MMORPG yet. The bottom line is that ESO is a skilled-based MMO as opposed to a class-based one. And honestly, after playing ESO for so long, I will never go back to that archaic class-lockout system. I wish more MMORPGs would adopt ESO's skill-based system.
    josko9YashaX
  • josko9josko9 Member RarePosts: 577
    edited February 2018
    ESO does have a trinity, although a lot of freedom too. The biggest difference is that if you're a tank or a healer you'll be doing a lot more than you're used to in other MMOs. For example tank is not only there to stand and take damage, they also need to interrupt and even buff and heal on some occasions, while a good healer needs to provide a decent dps as well.

    There are many viable builds, so the freedom is definitively there. Of course there will always be meta builds, but they only perform marginally better. Meta build won't make you perform better than a pro player with a shi*t gear, action combat has a very high skill ceiling.

    With that said, you don't need a tank or a healer if you're just running normal dungeons (with the exception of version II and DLC dungeons), everything above that you'll want at least some hybrid tank or healer.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,633
    I'd like to know where all this freedom is?  If you don't conform to specific builds and equipment there is an excellent chance you will get the boot.

    Like any MMO too many are too concerned with stats rather than just having fun.

    Was in a group the other day where a guy claimed his Warden was a tank build, he failed miserably,  Warden's are stuck being healers, they can't even dps well enough for hard content.
  • cronius77cronius77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    you can always tell who has actually played a game to endgame here. All these people glamorizing the open ended builds of ESO have never played past vet dungeons which can pretty much be soloed by a stam sorc or a few other builds. ESO is probably the most restrictive meta build game on the market for anything end game. You are locked into two builds for each class for end game , stamina or magicka and any hybrid builds or weapons will get you instantly kicked from trials or vet dungeons. There is ZERO freedom in ESO endgame.
Sign In or Register to comment.